Some rude Libyans

  Oh, that very sad what happened to you. Have you reported the issue to the local police?

However, I think it is not good to generalize or to blame most Libyans citizens because of the acts of 3 stupid or uncivilized guys! What do you think?

...i am not generalizing, but i must say MOST..i felt so helpless that time, some Libyans saw what happened and they don't give a damn..what's the use of reporting them to the police?..they will just protect their own race rather than a foreigner like me..my sister often told me that Libyans are rude (she's working here for 5years, and me just half a year), and I used not to believe her since i don't have any bad experiences with them yet..but now, I must say she is absolutely correct.

good that you came to tell this here.

firstly, don't judge based on a single incident.
secondly: in order to avoid this from happening again to you or to other members here, we can discuss and analyze the incident.
I'm Libyan and can help.

can I ask few question?

1. where did this incident happen? Location, time, etc.
2. were you alone or accompanied by someone else?
3.where you a pedestrian walking down a street or you got off from a car to enter a shop or a restaurant for example?
4. what have you been wearing?
5. what was the age of the guys .. roughly?

waiting for your answers

firstly, don't judge based on a single incident.
* I have some previous experiences with some rude Libyans, but I do not condemned them since that was just a minor incident, like touching my hair and face, and some guys on the street talked in rude ways, telling things I don't understand. This maybe a single incident, but really brought trauma in me. I do hope you understand the way I feel right now.

1. where did this incident happen? Location, time, etc.
This happened 8:30am while I am walking on a semi-busy street
2. were you alone or accompanied by someone else?
I am walking alone, would walking alone be an issue?
3.where you a pedestrian walking down a street or you got off from a car to enter a shop or a restaurant for example?
4. what have you been wearing?
I am wearing a decent clothes..
5. what was the age of the guys .. roughly?
Mid 20's

Guy's, this is not an isolated incident, Younger Libyan men just do not know how to behave around non-Libyan women, even when walking down the road with me, men will pull up their cars and tell my wife they love her, ask her to get in the cars, ranging from teenagers, to men in their mid 20's.
She cannot go jogging without being whistled at, or generally harrased. Going up the escalators in the main Souk men will try to touch her butt. (Then get all upset when I'm ready to rip their heads off)
We've been here a few years, we know the score,we know the dress codes. We are respectful of the culture, we would just like a little respect to be shown to us.

Bang on the button there Officeboy...

Mrs Sand was cat-called, touched up and generally sexually harassed on numerous occasions by these gelled lotharios, even when out with our toddler daughter.

Let me contribute also: i do know one incident where a wife of expat was slaaped on her bud on the street.
Belive me even wearing hijab will not help you. I know one more incident where expat woman in hijab (she is muslim) was harrased morally (not physically) just while walking beside the road in daylight.

Oh my god!!!!! I am so sorry this happened to you. I hope you are all right and can eventually move on from this horrible experience. I kind of feel your pain. I can't walk to a nearby store in peace. Men honk their horns, stare ,whistle, and shout things in Arabic . they need to get a life.

Here are some tips if you haven't already done them: Just ignore the guys. Don't even look at their faces. Walk away or better yet run as fast as you can because some may even follow you if you're by yourself (or even with a group) and insist you take a ride with them. I also advise you to avoid walking alone unless it is necessary. Wearing the most appropriate clothing as possible MAY reduce the chances of something like this happening to you again. SOME Libyan men have huge problems and still harass women regardless of what they wear. SOME Libyans will also deny this is a problem in Libya. If anyone bothers you again: just hit the guy in the groin, smack him repeatedly with your purse & shout dirty hell,ect in a loud&angry voice. Then run in the opposite direction as quickly as possible..that's what I would do. But 3 men?! how could no one help you in daylight?!! seriously...? low life pieces of shit!

Police? I don't even trust the police. Here is why: Sometimes I walk to the nearby stores and there are policemen who wink, smile creepy smiles &whistle. It is so freaky; you would think that  40 year old married men who are ALSO police officers would just do their jobs and not bother young women. (NOT!) I personally think if you reported this, they would dismiss it, do nothing, or laugh it off.

Libyans are definitely not all rude; mostly it is not the women, but SOME of the Libyan guys that are.  (for me it is most of the Libyan guys) & trust me: Benghazi has a worse case of this than Tripoli. When people say Libya is generally safe, they are right. However, they forget to mention the bit about it not being safe of harassment. I would also like to add (off the record): I know someone that experienced something similar to you, and she was a foreigner. From the story I heard, I can easily conclude that she would have been raped if she wasn't with her friends who overpowered the guy. Note: this was in the dead of the night in one of the really narrow back streets. & to answer your question katutubongPinoy: No, values education is not included in the Libyan curriculum. harassment?? maybe because I see guys who don't even look like they're 13 doing it so they must be taught at a young age....

Take care of yourself & stay safe,
Dana (Libyan-American)

katutubongPinoy wrote:

firstly, don't judge based on a single incident.
* I have some previous experiences with some rude Libyans, but I do not condemned them since that was just a minor incident, like touching my hair and face, and some guys on the street talked in rude ways, telling things I don't understand. This maybe a single incident, but really brought trauma in me. I do hope you understand the way I feel right now.

1. where did this incident happen? Location, time, etc.
This happened 8:30am while I am walking on a semi-busy street
2. were you alone or accompanied by someone else?
I am walking alone, would walking alone be an issue?
3.where you a pedestrian walking down a street or you got off from a car to enter a shop or a restaurant for example?
4. what have you been wearing?
I am wearing a decent clothes..
5. what was the age of the guys .. roughly?
Mid 20's

Yeh  of course I feel what you feel. that is why I'm here trying to help and analyze

so at 8:30am in quiet busy street.
walking alone here doesn't make sense ( WALKING ALONE WOULD MAKE SENSE IF TIME WAS LATE NIGHT AND IN AN ALMOST EMPTY STREET)

mhhhh.... wearing decent clothes and the guys are mid twenties.

ok ... this really shameful that no one of the people in the street tried to help you and stop those gangsters.
so the word rude is not enough for them. they are criminals.

my advise is to avoid walking alone. drive when are enforced to go out alone and don't walk long distance. 

here are some reasons why gangsters guys started to appear in Tripoli Streets:

They know that law will not reach them and you are a foreigner so they also know you don't have big family to protect you. (they can't do the same to a Libyan girl because they know that they will be traced and punished later by the relatives of that girl)

unemployment rate in Libya is 33% and it is a very rich country and guys see foreigners come, work and have salaries of thousands in Libya while the Libyan guy can't afford the cost of a packet of cigarettes.

Libyan guys who are not real Muslims don't afraid from god. they do everything they can. while Islam punishment to what has happened to you is to beat those guys by a steak 70 times in public.

So, No law or police, No religious principles, poor economic status, what can we expect? this really hurts me.

my heart with you and if I was a witness to the incident I would have immediately approached you and stopped those guys and showed them the stars in the middle of the day.

few years ago a thief has stolen my car, I went to the police office, they told me we can do nothing. if you find the thief catch him and bring him to us and we will put him in the prison. can you believe?

officeboy wrote:

Guy's, this is not an isolated incident, Younger Libyan men just do not know how to behave around non-Libyan women, even when walking down the road with me, men will pull up their cars and tell my wife they love her, ask her to get in the cars, ranging from teenagers, to men in their mid 20's.
She cannot go jogging without being whistled at, or generally harrased. Going up the escalators in the main Souk men will try to touch her butt. (Then get all upset when I'm ready to rip their heads off)
We've been here a few years, we know the score,we know the dress codes. We are respectful of the culture, we would just like a little respect to be shown to us.

You are right but always mention that there are Libyans who are very nice and kind.

dana12 wrote:

If anyone bothers you again: just hit the guy in the groin, smack him repeatedly with your purse & shout dirty hell,ect in a loud&angry voice.

This is very important. as soon as you feel that some one will approach you aggressively, don't wait. Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem

..thank you guys for your concerns and advises..that really pampers me a lot. Yesterday, I was really pissed off coming to a point that I hated ALL Libyans, even wanted to confront my boss and a new Libyan friend( that's what I can only do anyways). But today, when I came to my senses, I must admit that it's not right to hate them all. I still believe that like any countries in the world, there are bad and nice people. Touching one's butt somehow is forgiven, it can happen everywhere. Similar incident happened to me even in my own country. But one thing just made me wonder is how violent those guys can be, slapping strange woman in public? How many times children playing on the street greeted us with stone, that is one thing Libyan parents must watch off to their kids, they learn to be violent even at young age.

I've witnessed lots of harassment incidents in the middle of the day in September street. Any female pedestrian is targeted by Jelly-hair, wall-laid-back, bent-knee and Cappuccino-lover youth. This age category believe they're the hunter, females are the prey.
Ironically, female tourists pass by without a single word toward them. I believe the guys mark themselves as "local market specific".

''unemployment rate in Libya is 33% and it is a very rich country and guys see foreigners come, work and have salaries of thousands in Libya while the Libyan guy can't afford the cost of a packet of cigarettes.''

With this knowledge you understand now maybe, why your or your husbands salary is so high and there are still even more reasons for. Well of course, what happened to you is very bad and once happened to me too - years ago when I was young and crispy and pregnant!!!

I feel sorry for the poor people here, but that is a problem all over the world. And thats why it can happen to you everywhere. Our landlord and neighbors are taking so much care here for us, I feel safe. Where I go shopping around everybody is friendly and helpful. Stay longer and you will find out that most of them are polite and peaceful!

A good help is to now some arabic words. The word BARRA shouted out loud helps a lot if they get intrusive. (means -go away- in a rude way) Then they believe you belong to a Libyan family and get afraid (if you are lucky)!

Following my first visit to libya, I was telling to a friend of mine -with whom we used to backpack a lot in Europe back in the days- how polite and decent libyan men were compared to southern european hunks! My friend's response was brilliant: hey girl we are 50 years old now; men do not care about us :-)!! Finally freedom, I said, as a former victim of street abuses!
Then my 16 years old daughter arrived to tripoli for summer and I am sure we became a legend along the streets of medina, gargaresh et al. :-)!! I was even asked several times if she was available! yea sure and here I am trying to pimp out my daughter!!right!
I don't think assholes recognize territory or nationality.  Assholes are assholes and that has nothing to do with being Libyan or Scandinavian (trust me, I lived up there back in the day)OK, Mediterranean shores may be producing more assholes than any other geography but that has a lot to do with their sense(lessness) of manhood, nothing to do with their nationalities.
I am sorry you had to endure such an attack. But you know that it could have happened anywhere where some men think of themselves as humping apes.
fk

fatmakumru wrote:

Assholes are assholes and that has nothing to do with being Libyan or Scandinavian

err ... could you please day the same thing but with "nicer" words ?

Julien wrote:

fatmakumru wrote:

Assholes are assholes and that has nothing to do with being Libyan or Scandinavian

err ... could you please day the same thing but with "nicer" words ?

Quite right too, I'm shocked at the use of Scandanavian. It isn't even a country.

fatmakumru -- age does not deter them, --but one thing i would advise katutubong is walk along with purpose and don't make eye contact. be aware of your surroundings and frankly if they start harassing you either get yourself a whistle or yell for help...while this is not a damaging attack (at least not this time) be prepared and take your personal safety seriously -- just like you would in any big city

How to Avoid an Attack - 4 Self Defense Tactics that Could Deter an Attacker

I am libyan and you are right, most libyans are ignorant ...
But you think we can change this??? No we cant and we didnt creat this situation................

m0j0working wrote:

How to Avoid an Attack - 4 Self Defense Tactics that Could Deter an Attacker

This reminds me of when I had a full terrorist beard, and middle age white dudes would lock themselves in their Volvos as soon as they spot me walking back to my car at the grocery store's parking lot late at night.
It concerned me at first, but then I began to look for excuses to go shopping around midnight. I would stop in the middle of the lot, turn around quickly and catch their eyes for a second before they look away, and then stand there for as long as I can just staring at them and quitely brushing my beard with my fingers.

I suspect those were the ones who never heard of something called "the right to carry" let alone vote for it.

MoEl wrote:

I suspect those were the ones who never heard of something called "the right to carry" let alone vote for it.

Alas Mo...the right to bear arms is written into their constitution, as well you know. I blame the British...

Sandman6 wrote:

Alas Mo...the right to bear arms is written into their constitution, as well you know. I blame the British...

You don't want to bare arms, that really gets the jelly headed Lotharios excited.

I'm all for arming bears.

I am so sorry to hear what has happened to you. I hope you are feeling much better now and please try to forgive and forget..and to learn out of this bad experience.

Remember most of the youth of this time and of this country is spoiled, fortunately the old generations are polite and respectful as it used to be in the whole country before.

And keep in mind an old spanish proverb: "Wherever you go, do as you see others do"

cheer up!!

Amelie2010 wrote:

And keep in mind an old spanish proverb: "Wherever you go, do as you see others do"

holy moses Mo, given where you lived, it's a wonder you didn't get shot. i still haven't forgotten the numbnuts who shot a poor defenseless sikh after 9/11 cause he was wearing a turban.

or perhaps, Mo's incident did not happen the way he described it, because I for one think doing that would've gotten him in a scenario.

officeboy wrote:

Guy's, this is not an isolated incident, Younger Libyan men just do not know how to behave around non-Libyan women, even when walking down the road with me, men will pull up their cars and tell my wife they love her, ask her to get in the cars, ranging from teenagers, to men in their mid 20's.
She cannot go jogging without being whistled at, or generally harrased. Going up the escalators in the main Souk men will try to touch her butt. (Then get all upset when I'm ready to rip their heads off)
We've been here a few years, we know the score,we know the dress codes. We are respectful of the culture, we would just like a little respect to be shown to us.

You said it all!

In a decent country, it isn't important if the woman is:
-walking alone
-jogging
-even wearing whatever she likes to ware!

THIS IS CALLED FREEDOM IN NORMAL WORLD!!!!!
If a woman is alone, IT DOESN'T MEAN SHE NEEDS A MENS COMPANY, AND SPECIALY NOT WHOEVER-COMES-BY-IN-THE-STREET, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

I've been here since last september, and I can't wait to go away, and Libya is DEFINATELY not a country I'm EVER GOING TO MISS OR REMEMBER AS A NICE PLACE!!!

I never thought as one nation in a bad way....but we are here speaking of the mayority!!!!!
Hate the place! That's it!
And, if this Libyan member want's to help.....I see it very difficult....but he
1-has to have some important people of goverment and local and national TV
2-START SENDING ON AIR ON RADIO AND TV SOME TV.VIDEO-SPOTS ABOUT RULES, GOOD EDUCATION AND BEHAVIOR AND
3-promisse the justice to any woman who has been molested by men!

4- since he already asks what could he do....someone could try to
WRITE SOME RULES IN TRAFFIC ALSO....AND ACTUALY STOP THE DRIVERS WHO:
-SURPASSES FROM THE RIGHT SIDE
-CUTS SOMEONES WAY
-DOESN'T RESPECT THE PRIORITY ON ROUNDABOUTS: (THAT IS, FOR LIBIAN KNOWLEDGE, THE RIGHT TO PASS FIRST HAS THE ONE WHO IS ALREADY INSIDE THE ROUNDABOUT, AND NOT THE ONW WHO COMES 100 KM/h getting into it!!!!!
-THE RULES IN TRAFFIC, BY THE WAY, SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR FOREIGNERS AS WELL AS FOR LIBYAN PEOPLE!!!!!

and so on...and so on.....
There are soooooo many things that need to be corrected here....that you might need a century!!! So, GOOD LUCK!

I get the feeling that Hope70 doesn't work for an Embassy... but I think they could apply

Mudman wrote:

Julien wrote:

fatmakumru wrote:

Assholes are assholes and that has nothing to do with being Libyan or Scandinavian

err ... could you please day the same thing but with "nicer" words ?

Quite right too, I'm shocked at the use of Scandanavian. It isn't even a country.

Back at home, they teached us that "Skandinavia" is a group of countries: Norway, Sweeden, Finnland....so I think that she thought of that...generally speaking of north.european countries...but I liked your irony!LOL!

m0j0working wrote:

holy moses Mo, given where you lived, it's a wonder you didn't get shot. i still haven't forgotten the numbnuts who shot a poor defenseless sikh after 9/11 cause he was wearing a turban.

I have faith in the American people. They're not nearly as bad as those fags in LA and NYC would like us to believe. I may write about this one day.

officeboy wrote:

I get the feeling that Hope70 doesn't work for an Embassy... but I think they could apply

Aaaahahahahaha! Good one!
It's just that I can't stand the rude acts of drivers in this citty...and in any way of most MEN....Woman are quite ok....never the less (I'm not shure how it should be written :.-) there are also some very nice and peacefull men...at least for now.

And, don't worry....no way I'm going to apply for a diplomatic work! :-)
Regards....
Hope

(moderated: defamatory comments)

Moderated?? Dang, can you PM me a copy of the message, some of these posts make my day :-)

Moderated ? That's rubbish.
I read what he reported and whilst you might want to have taken some of the final parts out, the bulk of it was a good description of the living and working conditions he was experiencing with a certain agent.
Given that we get alot of enquiries on here from people asking 'what is it like to work for 'company ABC' ?' I think to remove the  comment in its entirety is completely wrong.

I completely agree Mr Mud...

The OP provided some good information on a typically unscrupulous agent and the way in which these cowboys operate.

There was no abusive or threatening language in his post and although what he wrote was his opinion, comments like this are invaluable to giving newbies a clear insight on what to expect if they are also considering accepting similar offers.

Typical, what did I miss then ?

Totally agree with the Sand & Mud men, having seen the post, it's an honest opinion of a local company.
Moderating abusive and racist comments I can understand, but I read nothing that was overtly defamatory, I think there are harsher posts in this thread alone.
OB

Clansman wrote:

Typical, what did I miss then ?

I can remember words like:

ETOS
Accomodation,cockroaches, toilets so dirty the cleaners wouldn't clean them, leaking roof,

and the opinion of the OP that the employer couldn't care less about the living conditions of its workers.

Note: this is what I think I remember my interpretation of someone else's opinion was. That doesn't make it fact or defamatory.