NLV application rejected

@ajm3212 Hi, I was rejected for an offence I committed and it was in my opinion worse than drink driving, I appealed their decision and had it over turned, in my opinion I think they just see that there is something on your record and automatically reject the application, if you then appeal and break down the offence (I had a lawyer from Barcelona do this) they then relook at the application in more depth and you could receive a favourable decision, don't give up I am now living in Spain and I'm about to renew again all is not lost, hope this helps 😊

Hi
I am desperately upset as I have worked for two years to prepare my NLV application - sold my U.K. house to have sufficient passive income from investments, retired from my job etc

and my NLV was just rejected because of a drink driving offence back in 2012. What now? I thought they only considered convictions from the last five years?
-@ajm3212

Are you sure it was because of Drink Driving?

@ajm3212

Welcome to the expat.com forum, and good luck with your potential move to Spain.

Sorry to hear of your NLV bad news, I can understand that's extremely disappointing.

I believe that they ask for a criminal record check that covers at least 5 years. But I think they look at everything on your certificate if it goes back further (which it will if you're British).

Were they explicit that your NLV was rejected because of the criminal record? You might be assuming so, when perhaps, for example, you don't have your Spanish health insurance policy?

If you've made the decision to retire abroad, and you don't want to give up just yet, I can suggest a couple of options:

- You can engage a specialist Spanish immigration attorney to file a new application/appeal, with mitigating circumstances and confirmation of your spotless record for the last 11 years. I believe some folks have succeeded in getting a different decision.

- You can wait a bit (a year or so, maybe less) and re-submit your application to the Spanish Embassy. But beef up all the evidence... and write a detailed letter about why you want to move to Spain, what you love about the country, and why you would be a model resident. Discuss your conviction in relation to why it happened, and why it won't happen again, and how you've been spotlessly well-behaved for x years before, and y years after.

- You can try to get residence somewhere else, in order to be eligible for a new criminal record certificate. it won't be useful for 5 years, but you've started the clock. The easiest option is Turkey, as they have an extended tourist visa for 1 or 2 years (renewable), with minimal income/requirements. They also require a criminal record check, but I doubt your conviction would be problematic. Turkey has lovely beaches/weather and a very low cost of living, so it's not a bad alternative. Even if you don't wait 5 years, as a legal resident, you can submit your revised NLV application (see above) to the Spanish Embassy in Turkey. Better application, different embassy staff, maybe it gets approved next time.

- You can try to get residence somewhere else in the EU. If you're retired with a pension, and passive income from your investments, there are several possible options. I like Bulgaria, as it also has a very low cost of living (not quite as low as Turkey, but the lowest in the EU). Plus low income tax, low property prices, beautiful countryside, good climate, and friendly people. It has a lot going for it. They ask for a criminal record check too, but I understand that they're a bit more forgiving than Spain. Not only do you start the clock on a new criminal record certificate for later use, but you also start the clock for permanent residence (also 5 years) which makes it much easier to relocate elsewhere in the EU. As per Turkey above, even if you don't wait 5 years, you can resubmit your revised NLV application at the Spanish Embassy in Sofia. In the meantime, Bulgaria has plenty of cheap flights (Ryanair and Wizzair) from Sofia to Spain, so you can spend up to 6 months a year there (you can do up to 90 days in 180 days, visa-free by virtue of UK passport and residence permit elsewhere in the EU). The EU connection also helps with the healthcare angle (if you're a legal resident in one, and get yourself covered, you can get an EHIC for use elsewhere).

I have legal residence in Bulgaria and Spain. We are mostly in Bulgaria, but we have a holiday apartment near Alicante in Spain. We get Wizzair flights from Sofia-Alicante and visit several times a year. I have multi-trip travel insurance and a Bulgarian-issued EHIC.

@ajm3212 @ajm3212 - please dont panic.  Get a lawyer and raise an appeal.  We were going to the canary islands and therefore chose a local lawyer who was absolutely fantastic.

Basically for ours they raised 5 points for reconsideration.

An 'alien' must be treat in the same manner as if that person was Spanish.  A spanish person has the right to have a criminal record removed after their sentence is complete and a 'term' has passed.  The biggest sentences in Spain are classed as being allowed to be removed after 10 years.  The 'severity' is based on the length of time served.  MOST are maximum of 5 years after the sentence is complete.  our problem was a 10 month prison sentence - in the UK - never removed - in spain removed after 1 year i think it was.  Therefore if spanish there would be NO criminal record.

My wife gained her visa and if she were to take that up and live in the canary islands then denying mine would be a breach of our human rights.

We had been allowed to spend money to purchase a house in the canary islands but the rejection of the visa meant i effectively cannot live in it.

I can come as a tourist for 2x90 days a year (half a year) but i cannot reside for the full year

Then finally - the lack of motivation of the processing of the visa.  Basically they dismissed it without taking the background facts into consideration.

i hope this helps you.

I'm happy to go into more detail privately if you want to message me .

And the visa was granted on appeal. Please don't give up it's the uk (lack of ) criminal justice system.  Sheryl who has commented helped us and we are more than happy to share our experience..

To have past offences brought up after many years when you have 'moved on' is terrible.

My shoplifting offence 37 years ago haunts me to this day - and even now affects my aim of moving to the Canaries.     

So depressing ...

@Maddy64 - uk system stinks. Unfortunately ‘no live trace' is possibly worse than the offence being listed! Because it could be ‘anything from anytime' so the spanish quite rightly ask for more details.

I am the wife of the person who had the record and it's so hard watching someone go through torment because of a stupid past. I hope you can tell your husband and realise your dreams. X

@Helpneeded27 please let me have the name and contact information of the lawyer you used . Thank you

RC

@Helpneeded27 please provide the name of the attorney you used. Much appreciated. Thank you. RC

I have sent you it in a private message. I don't think we are allowed to share in the forum.

@Espanacarinios my lawyer was based in Barcelona his email is lmichel@miderainternational.com, I hope he can be of some help to you 😊

@gwynj I thought you can only be legally resident in one country?

@ajm3212

there are some countries that treat drunk driving very seriously.

they see drunk driving as possibility leading to people being killed.

for example no matter how many years have gone past it is impossible to get into Canada with any drink driving offence but for the US it wouldn't be a problem.

so it will vary depending on the country but some really don't like it.

you should appeal with the help of a Spanish lawyer.

@SimCityAT I'm afraid so. I've submitted an appeal through a Spanish lawyer

@Helpneeded27 thanks for your advice. I have submitted an appeal through a Spanish lawyer so fingers crossed it is successful.

@sherylmulloy thanks. I've spoken with your lawyer and he is submitting an appeal for me. I really hope he is successful!

@ajm3212 the very best of luck! Because of the archaic uk system it is causing untold stress an money for uk citizens. So far I have not found one other country who doesn't have a method of clearing minor criminal records !

Hoping you are successful

@Helpneeded27

This isn't just because of a UK system.

For example in the US the immigration authorities don't recognise any form of step down or the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. For example a conviction for possession that could be completely rehabilitated in the UK and let's say was 20 years ago, it would completely block someone from entering the US on an ESTA and cause a rejection for a visa to immigrate.  Also similarly for Canada any historic drink driving conviction no matter if it has been stepped down in the UK will prevent immigration into Canada.

This is why some countries want to know about any historic conviction. Many countries don't have the concept of rehabilitation when they are deciding who comes into their country.

If the ACRO certificate didn't have this agreed No Live Trace model then it would be likely that may countries would insist on a full subject access report for all historic convictions to immigrate.

Hi ajm3212,

Any update?

Can you give me an idea of the cost for your Spanish lawyer to take the appeal?

Pat

Hi

No progess here. I am seriously thinking i will have to buy a house in the UK and forget my lifetime dream. the worst part is i have a Spanish resencia card from 2011 but i didnt know i had to renew it and then was stuck in Leicester on the 2020 deadline and couldnt be in spain for the brexit deadline.

the only alternative could be portugal on a D7 very close to the spanish border and have two houses - a rental in portugal for the D7 and my own place in Spain. Sounds expensive but might work…

@Helpneeded27

may need a good lawyer for appeal, could i have a contact for one you used please

Regards

@ajm3212

This is new and important info you have just added, that potentially makes a big difference to your situation! And you are NOT CORRECT in your assumption about a deadline!

Spain is one of a couple of EU countries that DID NOT have a Brexit application deadline (although applications before the end of the Transition Period were strongly encouraged). If you established residence in Spain before this date, and have proof(s), it should still be possible to get your 5-year residence permit. Of course, it's not guaranteed, and depends a lot on what documents you have. But if your NLV was rejected, it would definitely be worth you spending a bit of time researching this option (and making an application).

What do you mean by a "residencia card"? Do you mean the paper EU Citizen Registration Certificate? And do you still have it? This could be a big deal, so I can respond in more detail when you confirm exactly what you have.

Did you register for the Padron back in 2011? And did you keep it up to date? (Many/most kick you off after x years, unless you renew.)

I can tell you that I had my EU Citizen Registration Certificate in Cyprus, way back in 2005. And similar problems with Covid travel at the deadlines. But I submitted last year (Cyprus is one of the others with no HARD deadline) and got my 5-year biometric residence permit. But I did keep my property in Cyprus since 2006, and I had lots of bills for electricity/water/property taxes over the years.

If you left Spain completely in, say, 2018... and haven't been back since... then 6 years is a bit of a long break, it might complicate things. But it sounds like you still have your Spanish property.

The D7 is also a good option, and easier than the NLV. But still subject to a criminal record check. I would still recommend pursuing a late submission under the Withdrawal Agreement.

Here's a link with the relevant info on this option:

https://www.ageinspain.org/post/how-to-obtain-the-tie-guide

The key text is this: "If you are a British national who has been living in Spain since before 2021 you can register your residency in Spain as a beneficiary of the UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement. There is no time limit for making the registration."

@Helpneeded27

Hi,

i have read your post and i would very much like to p/m you, how do i do that ?

many thanks.

@Helpneeded27

Hi,

I have read your post and I would appreciate it if you would allow me to private message you.

How do i do that ?

Thank you.

@philipstewart

hi Eddie,

your email only allows me to speak through expat.com or am i miss-understanding the way this is working ?

cheers

Phil

@gwynj

thank you so

much for all the information. I have my very old small residencia card with a fingerprint from 2006 which expired in 2011. i didnt renew it as i didnt know i needed to. my padron is up to date and i have renewed it recently

can you tell me how to make a late submission under the withdrawal agreement please 

@gwynj

thank you so

much for all the information. I have my very old small residencia card with a fingerprint from 2006 which expired in 2011. i didnt renew it as i didnt know i needed to. my padron is up to date and i have renewed it recently

can you tell me how to make a late submission under the withdrawal agreement please

@philipstewart

hi Philip. can you help?

best wishes

andrew

@ajm3212

i know this was a year ago but being in a similar position just wondering if your appeal was successful

thanks

@ajm3212

Very sorry for tardy reply, I did not see that you'd posted again with updated info.

In 2006, the UK was in the EU, and you were an EU citizen. So your card is not a residencia, I think; instead it's probably an EU Citizen Registration Certificate. If you've got that, and you've been keeping up your padron (meaning you've been keeping up a Spanish property and spending time in Spain) then I think you're in a much better situation than most.

This is because you have evidence that you established residence in Spain before Brexit, and continued to live in Spain after Brexit. This means that under the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement you acquired certain residence rights allowing you to continue living in Spain.

You are advised (but not required) to apply for a TIE, which is the official residence permit for non-EU citizens (as we are now). And is a much more formal evidence of our residence rights. If you have been in Spain more than 5 years, then you should get a Permanent Residence TIE (very useful to have)!

The expiry date of 2011 is unfortunate, but not, I believe, fatal. However, admitting that you left in 2011 for 9 years or more, might well be. Your story (and hopefully your evidence) should support that you have been spending time in Spain almost every year since 2006 to the present! :-)

There is an option under the Cita Previa system for TIEs... and a separate option for TIEs for British citizen qualifying under Brexit and the Withdrawal Agreement. All the requirements are listed when you make an appointment. Such as application form, registration certificate (mentioned above), and your padron. Plus, I'd take a bunch of proof of my life there, just in case. I recommend you try this and see what happens.

https://sede.administracionespublicas.g … io/icpplus

You should find the following link helpful:

https://www.inclusion.gob.es/en/brexit_ … 12-31-2020

@sherylmulloy can you please send the details of the Spanish lawyers,  I haven't yet applied for my nlv but I had a 4mth prison sentence 12 yrs ago and I'm really worried it