Spousal TRC.

My ‘TRC by Marriage' expires soon. Wife and I have been collecting all the necessary documents. Unfortunately, the Agent that I've used previously has shut up shop. Does anyone know someone good?
Yes, I can take myself off to the Immigration Ministry on 335 Nguyen Trai Stree but it's generally easier to let an expert take the strain.
-@CHRISLANGTON

Won't work now.

Agents & lawyers are now forbidden to get involved.

I told a friend of mine that news when I was alerted by my agent, prior to applying for my own TRC.

He ignored the information and found somebody with an otherwise good reputation who would take his money.

Then that person (lawyer) started making excuses and he never got his money back.

So you now need to go to either HCMC or Hanoi, depending upon the permanent residence address of your spouse (previously the home book).

The province of her permanent address will determine which provincial city takes ownership.

Thanks, Mr OceanBeach.  My wife was born in Tay Ninh  but she has estd. Ho Chi Minh Residency status, so I guess we'll start here.

Thanks, Mr OceanBeach. My wife was born in Tay Ninh but she has estd. Ho Chi Minh Residency status, so I guess we'll start here.
-@CHRISLANGTON

They do have an English language information phone number, but I can't find that page anymore as it seems (to me) they are rewriting their website pages.

"Agents & lawyers are now forbidden to get involved."   I'm guessing the Govt. took notice of the high fees being charged by all those intermediaries and decided to sweep them away.

It seems there are two offices in SGN where one can go. - Nguyen Thi Minh Khai in District 3 as well as Nguyen Trai in District 1.   Can you recommend one over the other?   

Chris

"Agents & lawyers are now forbidden to get involved."  I'm guessing the Govt. took notice of the high fees being charged by all those intermediaries and decided to sweep them away.
It seems there are two offices in SGN where one can go. - Nguyen Thi Minh Khai in District 3 as well as Nguyen Trai in District 1.  Can you recommend one over the other? 
Chris
-@CHRISLANGTON

I'm virtually positive that the district 1 office is the only office that can normally deal with a TRC for spouse, but since you are getting a renewal/replacement, it's possible that the district 3 office will work.

Again I recommend the English language helpline and apologize for not being able to find that number now.

This move to eliminate agents and lawyers from the process was just an extension of the immigration crackdown that began in December 2019 and was then severely limited due to covid.

I seriously don't believe that the government cared about high fees.

Agents were supposed to provide a legal service that was actually helpful to the government while providing entrepreneurial opportunities for more people (think of all the questions many foreigners want to ask when getting ready to purchase a visa long distance) and it was a little taste of free market capitalism for agents to charge whatever price the market would bear for their assistance service, in addition to the fee that the government was charging.

It's always been my opinion that people who paid higher agent fees than other people simply didn't know how to shop around for the best deals.

But the government did want to crack down on illegal visas & TRCs.

They've now got a simplified electronic visa system that doesn't seem to be susceptible to corruption, if people plan ahead and apply for their visa properly. 

Even if they expand to longer visas soon (as anticipated) the electronic system should be able to handle that.

If people don't plan ahead and they wait until the last minute and need the assistance of an agent to get bumped to the front of the line, then the agent charges whatever the market will bear, and certainly somebody gets paid off for that.

They have taken back some authority from the local provinces for certain high-risk transactions.

It's never been a secret how many foreigners were marrying Vietnamese women in illegal marriages of convenience to get a TRC.

Eliminating agents and lawyers from the process was a smart anti-corruption move by the government, in my opinion.

Hopefully the process will be easy for you!

It's never been a secret how many foreigners were marrying Vietnamese women in illegal marriages of convenience to get a TRC.

-@OceanBeach92107

Truth be told, I didn't realize it was that big of a thing. Common enough that it is included in legislation.

Vietnam Family Law Act

GENERAL PROVISIONS

Article 3.Interpretation of terms

11. Sham marriage means making use of a marriage for the purpose of immigration, residence or naturalization in Vietnam or a foreign country; for enjoying preferential regimes of the State or for another purpose other than that of building a family.

Article 5.Protection of the marriage and family regime

2. The following acts are prohibited:

a) Shammarriage orshamdivorce;

I have to say though, Article 3ss#11 leaves a lot open to interpretation by the authorities.

"Agents & lawyers are now forbidden to get involved."  I'm guessing the Govt. took notice of the high fees being charged by all those intermediaries and decided to sweep them away.
It seems there are two offices in SGN where one can go. - Nguyen Thi Minh Khai in District 3 as well as Nguyen Trai in District 1.  Can you recommend one over the other? 
Chris
-@CHRISLANGTON

Nguyen Trai is main immigration department, passport, visa, sorting issues etc.

Nguyen Thi Minh Khai is for TRC and passport.

You usually get all your docs, family book, marriage doc etc then go to Nguyen Trai to get TT visa then go Nguyen Thi Minh Khai, with NA7 for wife & NA8 for westerner put in for your TRC, along with your doc registered address with police.

"Agents & lawyers are now forbidden to get involved." I'm guessing the Govt. took notice of the high fees being charged by all those intermediaries and decided to sweep them away.
It seems there are two offices in SGN where one can go. - Nguyen Thi Minh Khai in District 3 as well as Nguyen Trai in District 1. Can you recommend one over the other?
Chris
-@CHRISLANGTON
Nguyen Trai is main immigration department, passport, visa, sorting issues etc.
Nguyen Thi Minh Khai is for TRC and passport.

You usually get all your docs, family book, marriage doc etc then go to Nguyen Trai to get TT visa then go Nguyen Thi Minh Khai, with NA7 for wife & NA8 for westerner put in for your TRC, along with your doc registered address with police.
-@AndyHCMC

Thanks for clarifying that Andy!

I wasn't totally sure because my wife & I did everything through Hanoi.

That also helps explain (I think) why a Vũng Tàu expat I previously mentioned went to HCMC with his new wife (married in Bà Rịa–Vũng Tàu in 2022) and was only given a 6 month TT visa and then needed to return to Bà Rịa–Vũng Tàu where he was given a 2-year TRC

As Colin used to say, BR-VT is notorious for limiting spousal TRCs to 2 years.

Nice to see you active again.

😌

🙏

"Agents & lawyers are now forbidden to get involved." I'm guessing the Govt. took notice of the high fees being charged by all those intermediaries and decided to sweep them away.
It seems there are two offices in SGN where one can go. - Nguyen Thi Minh Khai in District 3 as well as Nguyen Trai in District 1. Can you recommend one over the other?
Chris
-@CHRISLANGTON
Nguyen Trai is main immigration department, passport, visa, sorting issues etc.
Nguyen Thi Minh Khai is for TRC and passport.

You usually get all your docs, family book, marriage doc etc then go to Nguyen Trai to get TT visa then go Nguyen Thi Minh Khai, with NA7 for wife & NA8 for westerner put in for your TRC, along with your doc registered address with police.
-@AndyHCMC

Thanks for clarifying that Andy!

I wasn't totally sure because my wife & I did everything through Hanoi.

That also helps explain (I think) why a Vũng Tàu expat I previously mentioned went to HCMC with his new wife (married in Bà Rịa–Vũng Tàu in 2022) and was only given a 6 month TT visa and then needed to return to Bà Rịa–Vũng Tàu where he was given a 2-year TRC

As Colin used to say, BR-VT is notorious for limiting spousal TRCs to 2 years.

Nice to see you active again.

😌
🙏
-@OceanBeach92107

They also do a 3 month TT (wife's hometown is Phu Nhuan) cost 35 USD.

3 year TRC 155 USD

I'm guessing that the Govt. took notice of the high fees and commissions being charged by the intermediaries and decided to sweep them all away.

There seem to be 2 possible SGN locations where one can apply. Nguyen Thi Minh Khai in District 3 and Nguyen Trai in District 1.- Can you advise as to one over the other? 

chris

We visited the Immigration Dept here in HCMC and they confirmed what rumor had led me to suspect. Namely, if the Vietnam spouse is from x.y.z city, that's where you must file - regardless of where you and she currently reside.

In dependent TRC/VEC, local wife/husband/adult child is the 'sponsor'.

One of the documents to apply for the TRC/VEC is the sponsorship application which should filled up correctly, sign and sealed by the head of Ward Police where the sponsor's national ID was registered (address).

A foreign spouse must obtain a 'residential proof document' from the Ward Police where he/she registered his/her temporary residence.

Filled up the application for TRC along with the necessary documents to the nearest immigration office in person to apply (one of the spouses will suffice, preferably the local spouse).

People in Tp. HCM (TRC): 196 Đ. Nguyễn Thị Minh Khai, Phường 6, Quận 3, Thành phố Hồ Chí Minh, Vietnam

For VEC: 337 Đ. Nguyễn Trãi, Phường Nguyễn Cư Trinh, Quận 1, Thành phố Hồ Chí Minh, Vietnam

+ The validity of a TRC (Temporary Residence Card) is up to 3 years.

++ The validity of a VEC (Visa Exemption Certificate) is 5 years (depends on the validity of the passport) but should renew each 6 months by exit and reenter from border!

+ The validity of a TRC (Temporary Residence Card) is up to 3 years.
++ The validity of a VEC (Visa Exemption Certificate) is 5 years (depends on the validity of the passport) but should renew each 6 months by exit and reenter from border!
-@charmavietnam

Also important to remember that those 6-month time periods allowed on the VEC give you the same visitor status as a tourist.

TRC affords "resident" status.

No, one cannot Just take the completed "TRC application along with the necessary documents to the nearest immigration office." If only it were that simple. Web  just visited both Immigration Ministry offices in HCMC  (the one in District 1 and the one in District 3) and they were unanimous that we must file in the birth city of the Vietnam spouse; in our case Tay Ninh.  The procedures have changed and there's still a lot of confusion.

Re # 12 and 16,this is not what we have found to be the case. We were told that the application can be submitted in the province where you actually live , NOT where you were born. As long as you have a document that proves you live there, in our case a "Red Book" i.e. land/house ownership paper, AND you have been removed from /transfered from the original house book in your place of birth. My wife was born in Camau province ,lived there and was registered in her mothers house book. She had to go there with proof of our status in Ha Tien (Kien Giang province),,where we live now, was removed from her mothers book, given a paper to say this had been done, then on return to Ha  Tien we went to the local police, got her papers here amended, and then went to Rach Gia where I was issued a 3 year TRC (this was nearly 2 years ago)

So here's a Happy Postscript of sorts.

Step 1. We visited the Immigration Dept. on Nguyen Trai  (somewhat chaotic) in District 1 in the hope that our bundle of documents would save us from an excursion to my wife's home town, which happens to be in Tay Ninh. They did confirm the address of the Regional Office in that city and did provide a 'memo of introduction' that outlined my name and other details - but otherwise sent us away empty handed.

Step 2.  We then visited the Regional Office as directed and were whisked in  because the only TRC customers that morning. The official was studying the bundle of papers in the normal way but visibly 'softened' when we handed her the so called memo of introduction.  "Your TRC would be ready for collection in 3 days. That'll be 3.6million please"  The whole thing took maybe 5 minutes.

Conclusion: Not sure that Step 1 is even necessary.

So here's a Happy Postscript of sorts.
Step 1. We visited the Immigration Dept. on Nguyen Trai (somewhat chaotic) in District 1 in the hope that our bundle of documents would save us from an excursion to my wife's home town, which happens to be in Tay Ninh. They did confirm the address of the Regional Office in that city and did provide a 'memo of introduction' that outlined my name and other details - but otherwise sent us away empty handed.
Step 2. We then visited the Regional Office as directed and were whisked in because the only TRC customers that morning. The official was studying the bundle of papers in the normal way but visibly 'softened' when we handed her the so called memo of introduction. "Your TRC would be ready for collection in 3 days. That'll be 3.6million please" The whole thing took maybe 5 minutes.
Conclusion: Not sure that Step 1 is even necessary.
-@CHRISLANGTON

That's great news!

Congratulations!

The casual reader should note this was NOT your initial TRC but a renewal prior to expiration of the old one, correct.

Anyone applying for a spousal TRC for the first time is almost certainly going to have to go to Hanoi or HCMC (depending on the registered permanent address of the spouse).

In Hanoi the wait is 7 calendar days, plus any inclusive holidays. 

Correct. It's not my first rodeo.

@OceanBeach92107

The latest info I had quite recently was a huge change to Spousal TRC & probably TEC.

Instead of going to HCMC and Hanoi as before, you have to go to town of Spouse's Family Book

(and this is getting more problematic as we speak becuase Govt is trying to move all 'Family Books' to a new computer system, and off paper-based system - but with typical competence, the computer system/forms to do that virtually does not work. My wife has tried to do this for Police for weeks without much success, and what has happened is that the process/s/forms that Police are meant to do do not work so they give up and ask Spouse to try to do it for them, and it still doesn't work. I think she may have got it finished after many trips to Police and many hours at home  trying to get their computer system/forms to work, but i would have to check. It might be that they all just gave up.)

@OceanBeach92107

"It's never been a secret how many foreigners were marrying Vietnamese women in illegal marriages of convenience to get a TRC. "

Really? That is not my understanding, but then i don't get out much.

And surely there is a tautology or contradiction or something there in "illegal marriages of convenience"?