New Tax laws from January 2024

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfqqg57 … rldTaxAndy

Basically your income outside Thailand can be taxed in Thailand unless there is a DTA

Many expats have an Non-O based on income so then there is no denial possibility about source

Between the lines I read the new law is also/mostly intended for wealthier Thai with income from outside Thailand.

Definition of income in Thailand is broad and included pensions, state or otherwise from the home land

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

What about Americans living off of their retirment income like Social Security?  we already pay US taxes.

IF you have a DTA then it will be OK, if not then there is a big chance on double taxation

If you are married to a Thai lady there is a possibility to get around this issue

    Good Morning folks. Steve here from Australia. In the process of organising retirement in Thailand and now hit with a change in tax laws for money sent there. Looks bad. Does anyone on the ground there have any clarification of these laws? Thanks and regards.
   

    -@sowo

The Revenue Department hasn't mentioned anything about changes in tax laws for "money sent there" or pension income. They are closing a 40 year old loophole where income from wealthy thai's earned abroad from Jan 2024 will be taxed the same year.

From KPMG;

Previously, Section 41 Paragraph 2 of the Thai Revenue Code was interpreted differently: the assessable income derived by a Thai tax resident from employment, a business carried on overseas, or from a property situated overseas, would have been subject to Thai personal income tax only if the said taxable income was brought into Thailand in the same tax year.  However, the new interpretation means that foreign-sourced income brought into Thailand from 1 January 2024 onwards will be subject to Thai personal income tax, considering the tax-resident status in the year that such foreign-sourced income was earned.2

Under these new rules, Thai tax residents who earn income from abroad will be subject to personal income tax on such income upon bringing it into Thailand in any calendar year from 1 January 2024 onwards, meaning that they — and their tax service providers — will have more record-keeping and administration around data gathering and income reporting, and may see their tax burdens increase.  Global mobility programmes that have assignees on tax equalisation may need to reconsider, and perhaps adjust, their policies.

It is essential to get in front of the changes described in this newsletter and to communicate quickly and clearly with key stakeholders, so that they can properly plan, budget, and make necessary adjustments.

    What about Americans living off of their retirment income like Social Security?  we already pay US taxes.
    -@thailand4me

From Google ...

Which countries have a double tax agreement with Thailand?

The Thai government has signed double tax agreements with many countries worldwide, including the United States, Canada, France, the United Kingdom, Singapore, etc.

Thanks for replies. Lets hope there is nothing to worry about. Bit of panic happening on youtube!

    Thanks for replies. Lets hope there is nothing to worry about. Bit of panic happening on youtube!
   

    -@sowo

Since when is Youtube the correct place to check out changes in tax laws in Thailand?

So the answer is??  Do we have to pay taxes on retirement income from the US??   Or not??

    So the answer is??  Do we have to pay taxes on retirement income from the US??   Or not??        -@thailand4me

Your question has been answered several times. If there's a DTA, a double taxation agreement between the US and Thailand, which there is, you pay tax where the income from pension was earned.

I got it.    thanks.

There is a lot of confusion from big taxation firms in Thailand about this new tax. None can confirm pensions or lump sums to buy property wont be taxed!

@sowo

Probably because they are not sure if there is a DTA or if the fund/country that pays the pensions are taxing either one or the other or even both, same goes for lumpsums. But usually if you transfer a larger sum and you inform your bank the funds are coming and it is for property purchase it will not be taxed

    @sowo
But usually if you transfer a larger sum and you inform your bank the funds are coming and it is for property purchase it will not be taxed
   
    -@martinoo2002

Maybe the bank can give a definite answer on this question.

When I moved to Thailand from the US my tax person as if we were going to be paying taxes in Thailand. We said we were not. But if the answer was yes then the IRS would reduce what we pay in the US.  Because  you can't be exp to pay to pay double taxes,

    There is a lot of confusion from big taxation firms in Thailand about this new tax. None can confirm pensions or lump sums to buy property wont be taxed!
   

    -@sowo

Nonsense, a DTA is a DTA. Regarding pensions, there's nothing The Revenue Department can do about that.

    When I moved to Thailand from the US my tax person as if we were going to be paying taxes in Thailand. We said we were not. But if the answer was yes then the IRS would reduce what we pay in the US.  Because  you can't be exp to pay to pay double taxes,
   

    -@thailand4me

Fire your tax person.

So you are say that am expected to pay taxes in both countries??   On my retirement income.

    So you are say that am expected to pay taxes in both countries??   On my retirement income.        -@thailand4me

The Revenue Department aren't after expats pensions. They are closing a 40 year old loophole where wealthy thai's postponed paying tax on foreign income. Don't you understand what a DTA is? It's a bilateral agreement between countries stating that you pay tax where the money is earned.

I really hope you are right leeds forever. But why cant I get a definitive answer from Thai accountants?

    I really hope you are right leeds forever. But why cant I get a definitive answer from Thai accountants?
   

    -@sowo

Why would Thai accounts know anything about DTA's if that's what you talked to them about? They are probably waiting for clarification from The Revenue Department.

From the web, just google DTA US and Thailand

Is there a double tax treaty between US and Thailand?

The Double Tax Agreement provides that income or profits derived from the operation of aircraft in international traffic by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. A U.S. resident will therefore not be liable to pay tax on such profits in Thailand.

There is no need to doubt this or query your accountant as it is written and done with

Same goes for 60 other countries

    From the web, just google DTA US and ThailandIs there a double tax treaty between US and Thailand?The Double Tax Agreement provides that income or profits derived from the operation of aircraft in international traffic by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. A U.S. resident will therefore not be liable to pay tax on such profits in Thailand.There is no need to doubt this or query your accountant as it is written and done withSame goes for 60 other countries        -@martinoo2002

It doesn't matter how many times you're telling this. They will keep asking same questions all over again. I don't know how many times I've been explaining DTA's.

yeah, i get what you mean....

@Leeds forever!  Thank You For Explaining This To Me.    Sometimes it is hard for me to understand English even though I was born in the USA.  I was born with a learning disability.  Thank You for your patience.

@Leeds forever! It depends what country you've already been taxed in and what the DTA says. The UK/Thai 1981 tax agreement does not cover private or state pensions, so it is relevant what the definition of earnings Thai authorities are using.

    @Leeds forever! It depends what country you've already been taxed in and what the DTA says. The UK/Thai 1981 tax agreement does not cover private or state pensions, so it is relevant what the definition of earnings Thai authorities are using.        -@PaulWyatt333

Of course it depends on how the DTA is written  But I'm not that surprised if the DTA between the UK and Thailand doesn't cover pensions from income,if you're correct. UK has always been a backward country. (Take for example frozen pensions when living in Thailand as a retiree, while frozen pensions in the Philippines don't exist.) Most DTA's do cover income from pensions,but you might have to officially/permanently move to Thailand.

I am consulting international Tax advisors this week. Might have a answer to this question soon.

I will add this word of warning. Current DTA agreements are apparently not 100% safe in 2024!

    I will add this word of warning. Current DTA agreements are apparently not 100% safe in 2024!        -@sowo

Really? Which ones? Please tell. Where do you come from? Do you really think that the Thai Revenue Department will challenge DTA's from about 61 countries?

Just an FYI, the  Dutch Thai DTA is being reviewed to prevent the DT under new legislation.

Once again, Income in Thailand included (state) pensions... I posted a link above somewhere...

Like Leeds mentioned, this is mainly set-up to discourage and/or tax wealthy Thais that move (nearly) tax free income to Thailand

Since the retirees have their income registered, when on income, it would not take the Thai RD to much effort to find those with 'income from overseas' and tax them, but a proper DTA would prevent that when taxed in the source country.

There are private pensions that are not taxed in the source country and they could be taxable even under the agreement.

We are all in this together. I am not making stuff up here. This tax could and i say could make retiring in Thailand alot harder. Leeds, I am from Australia btw and I am looking at this law closely. If you think it's a no brainer because of current DTA agreements that's your business but I am a bit more sceptical .

and by the way leeds, not every town has to have a cake named after it!!

    We are all in this together. I am not making stuff up here. This tax could and i say could make retiring in Thailand alot harder. Leeds, I am from Australia btw and I am looking at this law closely. If you think it's a no brainer because of current DTA agreements that's your business but I am a bit more sceptical .
   

    -@sowo"

"I am looking at this law closely."

Really? How can you look at a changed law that hasn't actually been clarified yet by the Revenue Department?  Please tell. You seem to worry a lot.

Message to all: I'm not sweating this.

Nothing to sweat about anyway, IF you have half a brain and can read and understand what you read

From Bangkok Post October 27:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/pr/2672169