BUYING GOLD IN VIETNAM

Kytain wrote:

Does anyone know if it safe to buy  high quality (24KT) investment gold in HCM Vietnam?

Vietnamese have been buying gold for saving since gold was deemed a precious commodity.  As far back as I know, as far back as my parents knew (my father was born in 1902), and as far back as their parents knew (my grandfather was born in 1854; that's how far back the knowledge they passed down to me), 24K gold has been an important part of *every* Vietnamese family.

I'm not exaggerated when I use the word "every".  Even in very poor families, there are always a few chỉ vàng (3.75 gr) kept in a safe place.  A not very poor families would have a few lượng vàng (37.5 gr) in their safekeeping.  A couple dozens of lượng vàng or more hidden away for a big event (buying a house, for instance) is not unheard of in a working middle class family.  Remember, the majority of Vietnamese pay gold for their houses, so spending a couple of decades saving and amassing gold is not at all unusual.

Traditionally, when a female infant reaches 30 days old,  her grandmother puts a one chỉ vàng bracelet on her wrist.  That's her first saving, a foundation for her parents to build on for her. 

Pay attention to the vendors at your neighbourhood wet market and see what they wear.  Those simple necklaces and/or bracelets are worth quite a few chỉ vàng each.

When I say gold, I mean 24K gold because Vietnamese do not believe that anything less than 24K is worth spending their hard earned money on.  18K is fun jewelry, 24K is saving, and why would anyone spend money on fun jewelry when they can have saving in the form of jewelry?

Kytain wrote:

Does anyone know any safe and highly reputable sellers of Gold in HCM?

Ask 10 different women and you'll receive 10 different answers. 

Kytain wrote:

Has anyone invested in gold in HCM. If yes, could you share your insight and recommendations?

See answers 1 and 2 above.

Kytain wrote:

I am exploring  investments in Gold for her.

What you're saying is that you're attempting to advise an oil man on the matter of drilling, or an expert angler on how to catch fish.  Any of your wife's female relatives, preferable the older ones, would know a ton more about saving in gold than you do, especially when you have to pose your questions on an expat forum to search for answers .  Maybe Vietnamese women don't know much about investment in gold, but I can guarantee you, there aren't many countries in the world where you can find women who know more about saving for and buying gold to keep than Vietnamese women do.

PS:  Your profile says you're a Vietnamese expat in America and you're retired.  Assuming you're in your 60s, you would've been an adult living in the country pre 1975.  If that's the case, you must know at least half of the things I say above about gold already and wouldn't need advice from this forum at all.

Thank you for your thoughts. I did not realise my profile was incorrect I will correct this. I am UK/U.S.citizen. I have been to Vietnam 2015-2018 Trips

Best Regards
Gary

We bought the gold jewelry (24KT) for the wedding at PNJ (e.g. at 132 Cach Mang Thang 8, P.10, Quan 3, HCMC).
Very renowned and serious.
There you can also buy small gold bars.
They also buy the gold jewellery back again.

Update:
I do not know exactly what will happen with the safe deposit box in the event of bankruptcy.
You should ask at the bank.
Sacombank has a 6-page contract in Vietnamese for the safe-deposit box.
If I deposit more valuable items in the safe deposit box, I will translate the contract.
At the moment I have rather important documents and a backup hard disk there.

Maybe it's a good idea to use 2 seperate banks for bank accounts and safe deposit boxes.

And during Tet, I discovered that women wear 7 bracelets to tell the day of the week, changing the order every day based on the day.

Wxx3 wrote:

And during Tet, I discovered that women wear 7 bracelets to tell the day of the week, changing the order every day based on the day.

The set is called semaine (week in French) and a huge fashion statement when I was a young girl -- the longest lasting fashion I've ever seen.

In re: semaine, there are several hundreds of French words being used daily in Vietnam by everyone no matter the age or the level of education.  They've been part of the language for many decades and probably will never disappear.

I have one US Eagle bullion coin that I plan to sell at BoC in HK in May. I'll sell at spot, if your wife is interested please pm me.

I have read that in India, demand for gold is so high that price moves are  independent from world spot prices.  Is this true in Vietnam as well? 

Worldwide gold prices are quite a bit off of their high in 2012.  At that time they broke $1800 while fluctuating around $1200 now.  At -30%, that's quite a loss for those who bought in 2012.  Have prices in Vietnam experience similar declines or is the market sheltered by local demand?  If so, importers must be making a bundle.

What does PM MEAN? How do you use it?

Kytain wrote:

What does PM MEAN? How do you use it?

PM is internet-speak for 'private message'. Meaning contact the person not by writing in this forum for everyone to see, but by clicking on their picture then Send a Message to them. Only that person will see it (and also expat.com admins if they are nosy, so I wouldn't discuss anything that might get you in trouble).

THIGV wrote:

I have read that in India, demand for gold is so high that price moves are  independent from world spot prices.  Is this true in Vietnam as well? 

Worldwide gold prices are quite a bit off of their high in 2012.  At that time they broke $1800 while fluctuating around $1200 now.  At -30%, that's quite a loss for those who bought in 2012.  Have prices in Vietnam experience similar declines or is the market sheltered by local demand?  If so, importers must be making a bundle.

Precious metal spot prices are the same worldwide, give or take currency exchange rates and commission. I'll bet there was more home buying when gold prices went up. Wasn't there a bubble pop in Vietnam real estate prices, where real estate lost a lot of value? Was that when gold prices dropped? Can't find a chart.

Cheers Gobot

THIGV wrote:

I have read that in India, demand for gold is so high that price moves are  independent from world spot prices.  Is this true in Vietnam as well? 

Worldwide gold prices are quite a bit off of their high in 2012.  At that time they broke $1800 while fluctuating around $1200 now.  At -30%, that's quite a loss for those who bought in 2012.  Have prices in Vietnam experience similar declines or is the market sheltered by local demand?  If so, importers must be making a bundle.

I think this describes the worldwide gold price best.
http://forex.quotes-p.com/topic.php?id=11

These link are very intersting..
http://www.vir.com.vn/golds-turn-to-shi … 56495.html
http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/422923/go … e-tet.html
(1 tael = 1.3333 oz)


This link shows the worldwide goldprices...
http://www.goldpricedata.com/en/gold-price-world.php

And this link the worldwide currencies..
http://www.xe.com/currencytables/?from= … 2018-03-04

But according to the gold prices from goldpricedata.com, calculated with the specific currencies, the gold prices are not really different. The range is only between 1324 and 1327 US$ a unce (04-02-2018).

I can confirm Gobot is 100% spot on regarding gold prices.
Here's another reliable link to get current gold prices.

https://www.australianbullioncompany.com.au/

I've purchased gold from them back at home and they are a 100% legit business.
My family has been in this business for as long as I can remember, both here in VN and back in Australia.

You can buy gold at any local jewellery store. Whether it be gold bullion, granules or jewellery. Its pretty safe ONLY if you know what you are doing.

Gold Jewellery are priced according to 3 components.

1. The labour component which is often a fixed amount and is based on the time and labour of the goldsmith to produce the piece of jewellery.
2. The jewellery stores profit margin.
3. The price of gold on the day.

So for example, if you were to buy a big arse 24 carat bracelet on a day where gold prices are low, you would be paying a lower price for the piece than if you were to buy the same item on a day where gold prices are high.

Some jewellery stores will just give you a fixed price.

Like wise if a local family was short on cash, they would resell the jewellery back to the jewellery store and lose the labour component value. The jewellery store would weigh the item and buy the item based on gold market prices on that day. They would then melt the item and either resell it or produce more jewellery from it, if it were a nice crafted piece they might put it back on display.
Some jewellery stores refuse to buy items back if gold prices on that day is too high.

The gold can be tested for authenticity through acid testing. The jeweller would scrape a little bit of it on a piece of ceramic (like drawing crayon on paper) and apply a special hydrochloric acid concoction. If the gold mark turns black then its fake, if it remains the same colour then its real gold. all jewellery stores know this trick. Only a trained eye will be able to determine whether its 18 carat or less. I've never seen any of these kits on sale on the internet (nor have i been bothered to look) as my family has always mixed the concoction up themselves.

Most people buy 24 carat gold jewellery because there is more gold value stored in the item, but the problem is that its too malleable and easily damaged, so those items are not often worn as jewellery pieces and are probably stashed away in a hiding place somewhere at home, ready  to be gifted, re-sold, or as a getaway currency in the event of another war .

9 and 18 carat is mostly used for jewellery pieces that intend to be worn because its more dense.  The colour of the 18 carat gold depends on the percentage and other type of precious metals that are mixed with the 24 carat gold, which are quite often silver, copper, brass. An 18 carat piece of jewellery that has higher content of silver will turn out greenish/yellow, where as a larger mix of copper will give it a reddish look. In both scenarios the item is 18 carat nonetheless.

Don't bother buying 9 carat gold jewellery items because there is so little gold in it that its worthless. The amount of chemical processing involved to extract the pure gold is too costly and a very dirty process.

If you want to buy gold purely as a store of value, then buy gold bullion.
If you can't afford the bulk amount then buy pieces of 24 carat jewellery.

Me & my lady partner have been buying 999 gold  for 15 years in Cambodia and bringing it into Vietnam - ask any Vietnamese that deal in gold, they love gold from Kampuchea (Cambodia)  one reason, its 25% cheaper in Phnom Penh.......we, then sell it to the dealers in Cho Lanh, Saigon  -   I have held 10 kgs in gold in my hands at their offices, these are serious gold traders, we typically make about $25 on a $100.......$5000 on $20,000......etc etc (we can carry $10K apiece in gold legally, have never been asked)   Vietnam has a huge markup in bar gold, compared to other countries  - forget Thailand, Thai Baht gold is around 22K at best, Vietnamese won't touch it.

we are living off these investments,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just sayin.

tunnelrat69 wrote:

Vietnam has a huge markup in bar gold, compared to other countries

I guess that answers my question about whether the price in Vietnam accurately reflects the world price or moves separately as it is reported to do in India.  Do you think that average gold purchasers in Vietnam are aware that they are paying too much, or are the content as long as they feel they can sell back at similar prices?  Certainly for anyone who has the means to travel, buying gold in Vietnam sounds like a losing proposition.

I was wondering if the Cambodian gold is sold by tael or troy oz. as in the west.  I have read that the weight of a tael may vary between countries.

Investing in gold Hmm... In 2011 gold was up to $1900 an ounce. Today it's at $1317.  The coins you buy have a sellers fee and to recoup the fee may take some years. Housing is booming. Prices are increasing demand is up for housing. I bought an apartment 6 months ago for $32,000 now worth $50,000. Banks are loosing up and loans are at a 20% dn/ 70% 25 years. Mortgages are secured by the property therefore income ratio is not as important...still important but not as. Look into other investments and their history. One thing about gold is that...it is liquid if you need fast cash.  That's my 2 cents...

Correction...30% dn 70% @7% for 25 years and you can shop for possibly an 80% mortgage.

AlexterBalexter wrote:

Correction...30% dn 70% @7% for 25 years and you can shop for possibly an 80% mortgage.

I was told Foreigners can't obtain financing for real estate purchase. How did you do it?

I paid cash for the apartments. The gentleman wants an investment for his Vietnamese wife. I will say... I spoke to several banks about financing... I have family in Vietnam... I am an expat and the apartment is in Only my name

CoderX10 wrote:

AlexterBalexter wrote:

Correction...30% dn 70% @7% for 25 years and you can shop for possibly an 80% mortgage.

I was told Foreigners can't obtain financing for real estate purchase. How did you do it?

The loan would most probably be in his wife or anothe Vietnamese persons name.

AlexterBalexter wrote:

I paid cash for the apartments. The gentleman wants an investment for his Vietnamese wife. I will say... I spoke to several banks about financing... I have family in Vietnam... I am an expat and the apartment is in Only my name

Got it! My apologies for not reading the initial post. I was just excited to hear about financing for a project and jumped to conclusion. I am also an expat. What project and area did you buy in? Just curious as I am exploring options to buy. Thanks

I'm in Dalat. I was going renting a smaller apartment 3 years ago and the price to buy was $15,000. I continued to rent... when I saw prices climbing fast ... I bought a fully furnished apartment from a rich man who only stayed in Dalat 3 times a year. The building has security guards, an elevator, and 5 eight story buildings. Close to the university and the lake by the Center. I've been in Dalat 5 years and every year Tourism is doubling and possible quadrupling. Beautiful here all year and the best weather in Vietnam. It's called the City of flowers and The Paris of Vietnam.

Hi, would be interested to know the current value of your $15,000 unit...
Mike

Mike, go back and read my posts. The question was investing in gold. I wrote a few replies about gold and looking into other investments. And as to your question. The 15,000 dollar apartment sold recently for $40,000 a slightly larger one just sold for $60,000

@Mitzlijen
I am sure you will find a naive guy who thinks he will get very fast very rich.

Hi
Do you have the names/ addresses of gold dealers in Cambodia who won't rip me off?

In 2011 gold's value was $1900 a Troy ounce...today its lowest value was $1295. Ask yourself..."How long do you want to hold onto your gold...Maybe inflation will out perform your investment.

I do not think the bank deposit guarantees really apply to investment funds unless you are investing very little. They are only guaranteed to around $3,000 . Even if you could deposit in every bank in Vietnam you could not cover a large investment. And foreign banks have left town for a reason.

@gobot
You way wrong when you say the prices are the same worldwide. Just check the price of gold on the world market today and the price you can buy or sell here in Vietnam. Yes, I was shocked to learn the difference. But you get hosed here. Just not a viable investment here it seems to me.

BTW Saigon Jewelry Holding Company (SJC) has the monopoly on gold in Vietnam. It seems that they do indeed price at a premium. So that still leaves the question.....is it better to buy in Cambodia.

Tunnelrat... Any chance you are willing to share some more details. I often travel to Cambodia. Thanks!

Just went to PNJ and they do NOT buy gold back from you.
Also the selection is pathetic.

Don't tell people to go to this place.

I just went to PNJ and they do NOT buy the gold back from you
Also the selection is terrible, don't waste your time there.

mdh330 wrote:

I just went to PNJ and they do NOT buy the gold back from you
Also the selection is terrible, don't waste your time there.

Of course they don't.
I worked in a second hand electronics shop for a while and it goes like this - Sell high, and never offer to buy anything back because the customers will realise they're being ripped off royally.
We ran two places, seemingly separate, one buying, one selling - the two paths never crossing unless the customer was far too thick to realise what what happening.
Harsh, but that's the business, and mates buying and selling gold did exactly the same - Scrap value in, wild prices out.

Fred wrote:

mdh330 wrote:

I just went to PNJ and they do NOT buy the gold back from you
Also the selection is terrible, don't waste your time there.

Of course they don't.
I worked in a second hand electronics shop for a while and it goes like this - Sell high, and never offer to buy anything back because the customers will realise they're being ripped off royally.
We ran two places, seemingly separate, one buying, one selling - the two paths never crossing unless the customer was far too thick to realise what what happening.
Harsh, but that's the business, and mates buying and selling gold did exactly the same - Scrap value in, wild prices out.

Reminds of a pawn shop franchise in Australia. They would tell you a ring was worth 500 dollars, a week later the ring was in the front window for 2000 dollars.

You went to PNJ and thought they would buy. They sell cubic zircon's as diamonds and you thought they would be good to deal with> they are cons. If you wanted to sell gold why would you not sell at a gold shop?

Being a ex gold miner ftom  the Pilbara Western Au I would go to the Perth mint or reputable gold dealer buy my gold in Au and keep it there.