USA to get more Philippine military base access.

NATO is looking to expand into Asia with South Korea and Japan as possible new additions.
-@Lat61

NATO? . . . . Yup some NATO members Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Estonia and Iceland.

Such News can be taken with a grain of cynical salt.

"they" have been saying tensions with China have been growing steadily for a decade. It's just an excuse to do some middle school peeing contest on grounds of a psychological tactic closest to China's own back yard/

With Russia invading Ukraine with the approval if not outright support from China, North Korea, Iran and other dictatorships, the rest of the world should be put on notice. The emperor can only rely on the circus to distract his citizens for so long. Sometimes war is needed to unite its Citizens. With recent Covid lockdown protests, Hong Kong unrest, internment camps of Uyghurs and other internal issues. I could see where Xi Jinping might start a world conflict under the guise of national interests.

Sometimes war is needed to unite its Citizens.
-@Lat61

I agree

China has almost zero military anywhere near the US, but China is threatening peace.

The damned evil Chinese are really clever in so much as their forces are a serious issue for the United States even though almost all are based half a world away from the US mainland.

I'm not sure exactly how that works and what threat (outside economic) China poses to the US, but I'm sure someone can explain it.

NATO is looking to expand into Asia with South Korea and Japan as possible new additions.
-@Lat61

12 March 1999    Poland joined NATO

12 March 1999    Hungary joined NATO

29 March 2004    Estonia joined NATO

29 March 2004    Latvia Joined NATO

29 March 2004    Lithuania joined NATO

29 March 2004    Romania joined NATO

29 March 2004    Slovakia joined NATO

Russia invaded Ukraine after a massive NATO expansion put US forces on/near its borders, the final straw being a push to take Ukraine into NATO, more so as all the pro-Russian areas aren't allowed to vote in Ukrainian elections - so much for democracy.

Ukraine, as was hardly reported, excluded most of its voters in Russia and Ukraine's pro-Russian areas from voting.

https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/556629.html

None of that absolves Russia from blame for invading Ukraine, but it makes it understandable.

We should be mindful of history when deciding on support for present day war mongering stupidity.

Now the US has expanded into Asia so US bases in the Philippines will likely be programmed into Chinese missile systems. That, regardless of any political opinions you may have, puts expats living in the Philippines in danger.

The great problem with hate politics and propaganda aimed at unthinking idiots is those unthinking idiots believe it.

WMD - Oops, there goes a war based on lies. Now we have to decide on what military threat China poses to the world outside of the crackpot long civil war with Taiwan.

Fred said. . . . I'm not sure exactly how that works and what threat (outside economic) China poses to the US, but I'm sure someone can explain it.

********************************************************

(1) China acts like it owns the entire South China Sea.

(2) China has built five artificial islands to support their claim.

(3) Three trillion dollars of commerce flows through the South China Sea.

(4) The South China Sea has enough oil to be considered one of the worlds major oil field.

(5) Estimated development would yield 2.5 trillion dollars in oil & gas revenues.

(6) China imports 80% of it's oil.

(7) China is bulling Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines. . . all who commerce and oil claims.

Economic threat is responsible for wars.

8. China currently has a spy balloon over Montana

Fred said . . . .
Russia invaded Ukraine after a massive NATO expansion put US forces on/near its borders, the final straw being a push to take Ukraine into NATO,

********************************************

Well tell me Fred why hasn't Russia invaded Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania or Poland on on its border?

Because they all belong to NATO.

So they invade a non NATO country. So what difference would it make if you added one more country (Ukraine) to NATO?

Fred said. . . . I'm not sure exactly how that works and what threat (outside economic) China poses to the US, but I'm sure someone can explain it.
********************************************************
(1) China acts like it owns the entire South China Sea.
(2) China has built five artificial islands to support their claim.
(3) Three trillion dollars of commerce flows through the South China Sea.
(4) The South China Sea has enough oil to be considered one of the worlds major oil field.
(5) Estimated development would yield 2.5 trillion dollars in oil & gas revenues.
(6) China imports 80% of it's oil.
(7) China is bulling Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines. . . all who commerce and oil claims.
Economic threat is responsible for wars.
-@Enzyte Bob

1 is clearly an overstretch by China

2 is a non starter as they were created and militaraised in reply to US aircraft carrier fleets and other military threats from half way around the world. As odd as it is ironic, these threats are based mostly on the occupied and militarised islands of Hawaii and Guam.

3 The cash is mostly to and from China so that's not much of an argument

4 Who gets the oil rights if China doesn't? Sounds economic rather than a military threat

5 Cash, not military

6 A lot from Russia, but also from Saudi, and both are turning into non-USD transactions. The PetroDollar devalues, and that's the US economy in serious trouble.

7 They are, but quite what that has to do with a country half way around the world should be clarified

8 You forgot 8 (or didn't want to mention it), that being the threats BRICS and China's massive lead in 21st century technology is to the US economy.

If you're unfamiliar with BRICS, read https://www.cambridge.org/core/elements … 6620AE09B0

China is on the rise and using economic power to push influence, and that is a massive danger to the US economy - After all, what are the lives and lifestyles of a few expats when that much cash is at stake?

We're all pawns in a nasty game and I have no support for either side, but one is more likely to start a war, or cause it to start, and that's going to make all our lives a mess.

That in mind, I won't be celebrating military expansionism.

Fred said . . . .
Russia invaded Ukraine after a massive NATO expansion put US forces on/near its borders, the final straw being a push to take Ukraine into NATO,********************************************

Well tell me Fred why hasn't Russia invaded Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania or Poland on on its border?

Because they all belong to NATO.

So they invade a non NATO country. So what difference would it make if you added one more country (Ukraine) to NATO?
-@Enzyte Bob

Look at a map

However, the point about Ukraine is not to debate that country on a thread about US militarisation of another country, more to point out the extreme danger of poking a lion or bear with a big stick .. or perhaps a tiger in this case.

The question we need to ask is what danger China poses to the US. That is economic, not military. Wars for cash and power are more common than just wars  - History is reviling ... but only if you read it and want to know.

Still, this being an expat forum, perhaps we should examine the dangers to expats and their way of life instead of defending military expansionism.

Looking at this as an expat (immigrant) in the danger zone, I'm less than happy at the thought of a regional war, or even a world one. Sadly, this crap is pushing us that way.

@fred And perhaps you shouldn't post pictures of insurrectionists, violating the Constitution to overthrow the democratically elected government as a good thing.

@Fred You said...."Still, this being an expat forum, perhaps we should examine the dangers to expats and their way of life ..."

I agree. If the situation gets too hot we need to be prepared to exit quickly. I think most on this forum would not be trapped here for lack money to buy a plane ticket home but it is something to think about. It's not as if this should be a surprise to anyone; Xi has been aggressive in claiming Taiwan for about 10 years now and a conflict has always been a possibilty. Of course, that is the only situation likely to trigger an actual war, probably not SCS issues.

Russia has blown its wad on Ukraine . . . .It will take years for Russia to replace the hardware it has lost in the "Ukraine Special Operation". Those Jobroni's won't be able to fight another ground war for years.

@fred And perhaps you shouldn't post pictures of insurrectionists, violating the Constitution to overthrow the democratically elected government as a good thing.
-@Larry Fisher

It was suggested political division is a reason for war. That does seem to fit the argument forwarded in the OP.

@Fred You said...."Still, this being an expat forum, perhaps we should examine the dangers to expats and their way of life ..."
I agree. If the situation gets too hot we need to be prepared to exit quickly. I think most on this forum would not be trapped here for lack money to buy a plane ticket home but it is something to think about. It's not as if this should be a surprise to anyone; Xi has been aggressive in claiming Taiwan for about 10 years now and a conflict has always been a possibilty. Of course, that is the only situation likely to trigger an actual war, probably not SCS issues.
-@danfinn

You also have to remember Taiwan claimed mainland China.

8. China currently has a spy balloon over Montana
-@mugteck

Yes indeed. It just so happens that a good % of ICBM silos are located in Montana. The US govt considered shooting down the balloon but refrained due to possible human casualties on the ground from the debris.

Let me see now. There is precedent. Remember the Gary Powers CIA spy plane that was shot down over Russia in 1960?

8. China currently has a spy balloon over Montana
-@mugteck

Has it?

We are told so but no evidence has been offered. However, we do know of a country that ran illegal spy plane flights over Soviet airspace, and there is plenty of undisputed evidence for that.

It strikes me a country that commits crimes can't moan if it happens to them ... if it's not made up like WMDs

The US govt considered shooting down the balloon but refrained due to possible human casualties on the ground from the debris.
-@Lotus Eater

Until you look at a map and realise there's sod all and a bit urban area there. They could blast a real one with ease but they leave a spy aircraft over sensitive areas untouched.

Anyone have a picture or report from an independant witness?

Anyway, we now have the US bragging about a military build up and a US general talking about starting a war.

The armaments industry must be bribing a good few people for extra orders.

This being an expat forum, we really should see the issues such militarisation could have on us. I say 'us' because this warmongering crap will impact the whole region, not just the previously US occupied Philippines.

The US govt considered shooting down the balloon but refrained due to possible human casualties on the ground from the debris.
-@Lotus Eater
Until you look at a map and realise there's sod all and a bit urban area there. They could blast a real one with ease but they leave a spy aircraft over sensitive areas untouched.

Anyone have a picture or report from an independant witness?
-@Fred

I've just got off the phone to the Pentagon in Arlington.They said they would get back to me.

Since I came here in 2014 I have observed the Chinese build up of reefs and atolls, and bullying of Filipino fishermen., claiming the nine dash line made it their waters. The previous president Aquino took it to the International Court, which ruled in Philippine’s favor, but Duterte never enforced the ruling or asked for help to do so, due to his deference to China. Well we know what bullies do when they’re not challenged, so here we are - China also bullying Vietnam and Malaysia. We are of course, the only other power who can challenge China. Does that mean we should? I don’t know, resources aren’t unlimited.. but clearly if we don’t, this part of the world will belong to them eventually.

As to Ukraine, I read Foreign Affairs, and there was an excellent article recently about George Kennan, a famous diplomat and scholar of Russia during and after WW II. He said then that Russia and Ukraine were as one, difficult to separate. Also that no Russian leader would tolerate western forces on their border, and he decried the expansion of NATO in Eastern Europe in the past 20-25 years for that very reason.

I’m certainly not advocating in support of Putin, or that we should not support Ukraine, but you can kind of see how Russia would feel threatened. But now we are stuck, and the huge loss of life on both sides is horrible.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/ … -%20112017

My last comment concerns the general lack of debate on these difficult foreign policy matters in Washington. Within these circles there is little room for debate. No one wants to be viewed as soft, on China or Russia, so they all go along, and harden their rhetoric, and things eventually escalate out of control, just like in Vietnam, or the buildup to the Iraq war. Its like an echo chamber in there.

so here we are - China also bullying Vietnam
-@pnwcyclist

Yes, the Chinese carpet bombed Vietman, Laos, and Cambodia.

Oh, hang on, what happens to bullies? Ah, they sell arms to the previously evil commies that are now their best buddies.

You know, the commies that killed 58,000 US military personnel, but that's in the past and a different bunch of evil commies are dangerous now. Money is to be made.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp … 20arsenal.

I've just got off the phone to the Pentagon in Arlington.They said they would get back to me.
-@Lotus Eater

Say hello to General Milley for me. He's my second cousin.

Anyway, we now have the US bragging about a military build up and a US general talking about starting a war.
The armaments industry must be bribing a good few people for extra orders.
This being an expat forum, we really should see the issues such militarisation could have on us. I say 'us' because this warmongering crap will impact the whole region, not just the previously US occupied Philippines.
-@Fred

Bla Bla Bla

Somehow the USA has invaded your cranium . . . .You never miss a chance of lambasting, but you know what, you are convincing yourself and no one else.

However, we do know of a country that ran illegal spy plane flights over Soviet airspace, and there is plenty of undisputed evidence for that.

All countries, enemy or not, spy on each other but normally they do so in a covert manner. A spy balloon is the last thing from "covert" and they probably *intended* for us to find it.  According to analysts, their using a balloon is sending the US a message that, should a war occur in Taiwan, they are fully cognizant of our ICBM nuclear missile silo facilities in Montana and they previously used high tech spy satellites, not balloons, to get that information. Pentagon will not shoot down a "spy balloon" because it is too low tech to cause any actual intel harm. It was just a message and a veiled threat to watch ourselves should a Taiwan war break out.

You also have to remember Taiwan claimed mainland China.
-@Fred

For sure, I traveled there several times years ago. The KMT claims to represent all of China. PRC claims to be the real China including  "Taiwan province". That was an internal standoff as to who controls the "one China". The situation escalated drastically later on when Taiwan started talking about independence under a party opposing the KMT as a separate country ie "two Chinas". They and the world are far better off if they do not declare independence. The US declares a one China policy and I hope Taiwan can stick to the old, original KMT party understanding.

Anyway, ignoring the attempts to take this off topic thus kill the thread, the US militarisation and expansionism is a far greater threat to expats in the Philippines than anything China is likely to do.

Yes, China has designs on Taiwan, just as Taiwan has designs on China, but that's a local civil war and no reason for others to get involved.

Now the US has committed to upping the stakes, US expats are in a far worse position as a result. Sadly, the safety of all other expats have been reduced as well.

China has a history of gaining influence using investment, not bombs. That can't be said for other players.

As a matter of record, I don't believe China has any serious claim to Taiwan (Maybe they did up to around 1950 or perhaps later), but it's far too late several generations in to have a valid claim now.

However, other countries should butt out as they are spreading the threat over the whole region, and maybe the world.

Expat safety is the name of the game as far as this topic on this forum goes, and that is taking a nosedive as the US increases its military expansion in the region.

@Fred "Expat safety is the name of the game as far as this topic on this forum goes, and that is taking a nosedive as the US increases its military expansion in the region."

No, your saying that expat safety is the topic of this thread is not true just because you say it is.  Read the title, it is simply about the news but predictably you also use it as an opportunity to criticize your 'ole archenemy' the USA. You actually do the same thing as you criticize other commenters of doing. Expat safety is a solution that involves nothing more than buying a plane ticket back home, probably after several warnings from the embassies to get out, which is not a great cause of concern in the near to mid future.

@Fred Russia wants Ukrain for there farm ground and agricultural. China wants the Philippines for there fishing waters. Either put them in check or start brushing up on your Chinese and Russian because they will take it if not confronted!!

danfinn said . . .All countries, enemy or not, spy on each other but normally they do so in a covert manner. A spy balloon is the last thing from "covert" and they probably *intended* for us to find it. According to analysts, their using a balloon is sending the US a message that, should a war occur in Taiwan, they are fully cognizant of our ICBM nuclear missile silo facilities in Montana and they previously used high tech spy satellites, not balloons, to get that information. Pentagon will not shoot down a "spy balloon" because it is too low tech to cause any actual intel harm. It was just a message and a veiled threat to watch ourselves should a Taiwan war break out.

********************************************************

Very astute observation, land based silos are all obsolete. Many will be converted over to Mushroom Farms.

Very astute observation, land based silos are all obsolete. Many will be converted over to Mushroom Farms.
-@Enzyte

From news sources via Google:

"Montana has long been the location for some of the US’s nuclear arsenal and is home to one of three known major nuclear missile *silo* fields. The other two are in Wyoming and North Dakota.

The Air Force at Malmstrom maintains *150 intercontinental ballistic missile silos* across its 13,800-square-mile complex in central Montana, according to the Pentagon.

@Fred "Expat safety is the name of the game as far as this topic on this forum goes, and that is taking a nosedive as the US increases its military expansion in the region."
No, your saying that expat safety is the topic of this thread is not true just because you say it is. Read the title, it is simply about the news but predictably you also use it as an opportunity to criticize your 'ole archenemy' the USA. You actually do the same thing as you criticize other commenters of doing. Expat safety is a solution that involves nothing more than buying a plane ticket back home, probably after several warnings from the embassies to get out, which is not a great cause of concern in the near to mid future.
-@danfinn

History is very anti-American. Perhaps you should rewrite it in the interests of fairness.

However, as an expat forum, the topic's only point is what, if any, affects US militarisation in the region could have on expats.

In this case, if the US starts a war either deliberately by interfering in a Chinese civil war, or accidentally by stuffing carrier battle groups into disputed waters that are nowhere near the US mainland, expats are now in far greater danger than they would be if the US butts out.

Flag waving and defending militarisation is one thing, but telling the world you plan to run away whilst leaving locals to their fate if your government starts yet another war - OUCH! I'd be ashamed to admit that.

..... just like in Vietnam, or the buildup to the Iraq war. Its like an echo chamber in there.
-@pnwcyclist

Shh, mentions of Iraq are a bad idea as the WMD lies might come up for debate. As for Vietnam, the country with an evil communist government that killed thousands of US troops, it's still the same government but the US now supplies arms to them so it's better to keep quiet about that embarrassing defeat.

It's an echo chamber because way too many members of that government are taking sack loads of cash in bribes, sorry, campaign contributions.

In this case, that should be a serious concern for expats as this corruption is putting them in danger.

@Fred You are not even in the Philippines and you have no idea what the average local in the Philippines thinks about the US and other foreigners. You are in Indonesia which only puts you in the region and you are careful to spin your propaganda from a regional, not Philippine perspective. Do you contribute to any Indonesian expat forums? Why do you choose to diss the USA in a Philippine forum? Why do you even  choose to participate a Philippine forum? Are you planning on moving here? You appreciate the ubiquitous presence of American culture in Pinas lol. And yes. I know, your version of history is definitely anti-American and it is well documented on this forum.

@Fred You are not even in the Philippines and you have no idea what the average local in the Philippines thinks about the US and other foreigners. You are in Indonesia which only puts you in the region and you are careful to spin your propaganda from a regional, not Philippine perspective. Do you contribute to any Indonesian expat forums? Why do you choose to diss the USA in a Philippine forum? Why do you even choose to participate a Philippine forum? Are you planning on moving here? You appreciate the ubiquitous presence of American culture in Pinas lol. And yes. I know, your version of history is definitely anti-American and it is well documented on this forum.
-@danfinn

Opinion is propaganda?

Facts as stated by the US government are propaganda?

The issue is regional as Taiwan isn't part of the Philippines and the stated aim of the US is to threaten China over Taiwan

Facts as stated by the US government are propaganda?
The issue is regional as Taiwan isn't part of the Philippines and the stated aim of the US is to threaten China over Taiwan
-@Fred

It's regional so then I must assume that you are also expressing these expat concerns on the Malaysian, Vietnamese, Singapore and Taiwan expat forums, not just Philippines, right? Or do you think red China has special designs on the Philippines (that btw only the hated americans can counter)?

Military bases in PH is the topic and they have had bases here for a hundred years or more. Any different to the Greeks or Romans world domination? More recently the UK and Spain? Throw in an inquisition and genocidal atrocities in the last hundred or more years, currently the US, China and a fizzling Russia.

Us mostly retired expats from all countries are powerless against world trends whether economic or conflict. As my dear old dad used to say? "put your head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye" And I say when your number is up that's it Josephine,

As others often say, "you can run but you can't hide".

OMO but if ever Asian countries are under threat of conflict/war? It will be worldwide, won't matter where you run to. Save your airfare ticket.

Cheers, Steve.