Getting a TEFl job with no degree (Non-native)

Is it feasible to get a reputable online TEFL degree (maybe 120 hours or Level 5) and find a job in Vietnam as an English teacher for me?
-@Mezz007

Hey Mezz,

Welcome to the forum.

Regretfully, I'd have to say that's a totally unfeasible plan.

Get your BA/BS degree first.

Cheers!

Hi @OceanBeach92107,

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it.

Though, if I earn my Bachelor's degree, then will it be possible for me to teach English in Vietnam/Cambodia with a reputable online TEFL (120 hours or Level 5) certificate considering I'm Indian and not from the 7 countries. And on top of that, I'm brown.

Will I make it?

@Mezz007 With a degree and a TEFI you'll probably be ably to find a teaching job in Vietnam but the pay will be low and you'll likely have to settle for someplace out away from the large cities - meaning small towns/cities out in the countryside.

@Mezz007 With a degree and a TEFI you'll probably be ably to find a teaching job in Vietnam but the pay will be low and you'll likely have to settle for someplace out away from the large cities - meaning small towns/cities out in the countryside.
-@drutter

Oh, that's a bummer.

Do you have an idea what's the pay (approximately) for Indians?

Hi there,
I'm Mezz, a 20-year-old guy, who has always been fascinated about travelling. Since my childhood, I've been dreaming about traveling across the globe and writing novels. I have a high school degree -- that too through a distance learning program. So, my academic achievements aren't very valuable. The only skills that I have are music -- I play the guitar -- and the English language. I have done content writing in the past and a few other gigs. I live with my parents (actually, it's normal in Asia) but they are toxic as hell. I've been bullied, gaslighted, hit and publicly shamed by my family. Is it feasible to get a reputable online TEFL degree (maybe 120 hours or Level 5) and find a job in Vietnam as an English teacher for me? I'm brown and I have a fairly anglicized accent.
Is it feasible for me? What are the steps?
I can wait and complete my degree but it's just so toxic and I want to get out and live my life.
-@Mezz007

Hi Mezz007, allow me to also extend to you a warm welcome from expat.com!

Thank you for writing me earlier. I'm sorry I was unable to reply until now.

As stated by OceanBeach92107, the current prerequisite to legally teach English in Vietnam is a university degree (in any major) , or a minimum of 5 years experience. With your degree, and the TEFL course under your belt, you would have absolutely no trouble finding a teaching position. There is currently a dearth of qualified English teachers here.

Beware of offers from teaching centres/agents who might offer you a quick "fix" around the requirements to teach. If (nay, when!) discovered by the authorities, the repercussions will be swift, including deportation, being placed on VN immigration's "blacklist", and possibly incarceration. Do not chance this.

I agree totally with OceanBeach92107's advice. Push on through and earn that degree.

Though I've never taught English in Vietnam, I have had offers from institutions in Saigon and Thai Nguyen. The average salary was ~$2,000 USD/month @ 25 hours per week class time (add another 5 hours per week for prep/test-assignment review/lecture organization).

Being that you are a young man I can appreciate your wanting to break out on your own. Don't be too hasty. Playing things above board/legally is the best advice I can offer.

I will say this. If your spoken-word English is as fluid and comfortable to listen to as your written-word English is to read, I feel confident in saying that you will soon make an excellent candidate for a teaching position.

Once again, welcome to expat.com. Please feel free to ask additional questions, to comment on existing threads, or to open a new topic for discussion.

@Aidan in HCMC thank you for this comment, even though it's not my thread! I found it very helpful and encouraging. 

@Mezz007 Get out of toxic people even if it is 'family' but do you have some savings to 'get out'?

If so it's easy! Otherwise just obey your parents and complete the degree then get a minimum 120h authorized TEFL certificate which will give you eligibility to apply for a teaching position. Skin color matters but still you can try! Ah, I am a light brownie too!

@Aidan in HCMC

Thank you so much.

I found it very helpful.

Also, are non-native speakers (as I'm brown) required to have a minimum of Level 5 TEFL (as opposed to the regular 120 hours TEFL) and the IELTS certificate too?

And are online TEFL courses a waste of money?

As previously stated, be sure you are financially stable before you move out on your own. Get your BA - yes any subject will work but Education/English will give you that little extra edge. Get your TEFL - I got mine at university and I'm not real sure about online certificates. Remember, here in Vietnam we are all guests, be sure you keep everything legal.

Finally, to be honest, your skin color and nationality will disqualify you with some schools and others will try to low ball you on the pay. I would not count on $2,000 USD a month. I understand this is not fair, it's just the way it is - sometimes life is not fair : - ( You might get lucky and get one of those $2,000 USD per month offers, but I don't want to get your hopes up to high.

My experience at my school was that the Filipino teachers, who I might add were eminently well qualified, were paid about US$2.00/HR less than the teachers from Anglo/North American countries.  It was unfair but they took it in stride. One told me that it was still more than they could make in the Philippines.

I might add that when I taught listening to intermediate students, I always included voice clips from people with Indian accents as I felt it was an important subset of English, particularly as India and Vietnam are significant trading partners.

@THIGV Really? That's depressing. I could work for 1500$ or even 1000$ if the natives were getting 2000$ but 2$/hour is plain exploitation.

Guess, I don't stand a stance anyway.

@THIGV Really? That's depressing. I could work for 1500$ or even 1000$ if the natives were getting 2000$ but 2$/hour is plain exploitation.
Guess, I don't stand a stance anyway.
-@Mezz007

Perhaps I was not clear.   $2/hr was not the wage, it was the differential.   So if Americans and Brits were making $20, the Filipinos were making $18.  It may not be fair but it was the reality.

@Mezz007

  I think you misunderstood what THIGV said. "about US$2.00/HR less" - meaning if the others are getting $20 USD per hour you might be offered $18 USD per hour. 

Oh, my bad.

I didn't expect that. I'm in a messed up state so I misunderstood it, contemplating the worst.

That's a lot if we consider the living cost in Vietnam, isn't it? One could easily save up a few bucks.

So the steps are as follows:

1) Earn my Bachelor's degree

2) Get an online TEFL (maybe 180 hours Level 5 as I'm brown)

3) Get the IELTS certificate (will I need it?)

4) Then, should I apply online or go over there and apply in person? And will they help me out with the work permit/visa?

My experience at my school was that the Filipino teachers, who I might add were eminently well qualified, were paid about US$2.00/HR less than the teachers from Anglo/North American countries. It was unfair but they took it in stride. -@THIGV

@THIGV Really? That's depressing. I could work for 1500$ or even 1000$ if the natives were getting 2000$ but 2$/hour is plain exploitation.
Guess, I don't stand a stance anyway. -@Mezz007

Two things:

1. As already mentioned, you didn't accurately comprehend the comment; a skill you might want to bone up on before holding yourself out to be a capable English teacher in Việt Nam.

2. One reason I always encourage people to use the quote function is that it gives you a second chance to read the text to which you are replying.

So sure, you stand a chance if you are willing to spend the time and effort to get the required degree, and if you have your eyes wide open and realize there is no equal employment opportunity law for foreigners.

Unless you are a young white female native English speaker, odds are that--based on your skin color and gender--you will experience at least a slight amount of prejudice during your search for work in Việt Nam.

Please become proactive and not reactive to your home life, however sad it may be.

When I was a bit younger than you, I allowed my toxic home life to be the main motivation for decisions I made about my future, and I ultimately ended up in a Việt Nam combat zone.

Good luck with your future plans!

Are non-native TEFL holders (Indians, in my case) expected to have the IELTS certificate to find an English teaching job?

Also, are online TEFL certificates like MyTEFL accepted in Vietnam for the same group of people?

@Mezz007 TEFL certificates are accepted in Vietnam. However, you will need to have them attested by the Vietnamese embassy of the country the TEFL certificate was issued from.

@Mezz007 TEFL certificates are accepted in Vietnam. However, you will need to have them attested by the Vietnamese embassy of the country the TEFL certificate was issued from.
-@Aspireattestation

Thanks

Suppose, I have an online TEFL certificate that is registered in Canada. Now, I live in India. So, will I have to go to Canada to get it legalised? That sounds like a hassle.

@drutter I looked up and found that online TEFL certificates (even the famous ones like myTEFL) aren't valued. So, even if my online TEFL is from a reputable organization and legalised through the Vietnamese embassy of the country in which the organisation is registered (maybe, UK), it won't hold any value when applying for an in-person job, will it?

@Mezz007

As I said, I got my TEFL through the university so I'm not really the person to ask about online TEFL's. Perhaps one of the other expats can help you with that. On there other hand, I can tell you that Cambridge is widely used and respected by many English language centers here in Vietnam and I do believe they offer an online TEFL class. So you may want to look into that. I'm sorry I can't help you much with this.     

Are non-native TEFL holders (Indians, in my case) expected to have the IELTS certificate to find an English teaching job?
Also, are online TEFL certificates like MyTEFL accepted in Vietnam for the same group of people?
-@Mezz007

A good IELTS score should help as you are of a non-Anglo nationality.  Note that a Vietnamese college student recently got a perfect 9.0 in all four IELTS phases which I have read even many native speakers fail to do.

An online TEFL certificate would be fine if you were the mythical blonde 22 year old Canadian female who really wants to teach 6 year olds.  I suggest you take an in-person CELTA course after you complete your 4 years of college.  You could even take the course in Hanoi or Ho Chi MInh.  You have a long road ahead.

You may already be doing so but let me suggest that you select British, Australian, or American (non-Indian even if English) YouTube channels. After a while the algorithm will feed you more and more.  I don't mean English teaching videos, just general interest.  I am quite certain that my own wife's English acquisition is impeded by watching mostly Vietnamese YouTube channels for entertainment and even news.

@Aidan in HCMC I should get a CELTA in addition to my degree, then?

I'm Indian (so, any other online TEFL course won't help me, will it?)

@Aidan in HCMC I should get a CELTA in addition to my degree, then?
I'm Indian (so, any other online TEFL course won't help me, will it?)
-@Mezz007

Hi Mezz007.

The minimum requirement to teach English in Vietnam is a university degree (not a college graduation certificate), or 5 years verifiable experience.

Though IELTS, CELTA and TEFL courses are not required, schools (or learning centres) will find your resume more attractive having one (or more) of these.

That being said, the requirements for a candidate to qualify to teach in Vietnam may change by the time you have attained your degree.

I hope this helps. Best of luck in your studies.

@Aidan in HCMC

Thank you so much!

@Mezz007 Get out of toxic people even if it is 'family' but do you have some savings to 'get out'?
If so it's easy! Otherwise just obey your parents and complete the degree then get a minimum 120h authorized TEFL certificate which will give you eligibility to apply for a teaching position. Skin color matters but still you can try! Ah, I am a light brownie too!
-@charmavietnam

It's not that easy, I'm afraid.

I have scoured many expat forums and regretfully, found out that even if an Indian have an in-person CELTA certificate, a Bachelor's degree, an American accent and the IELTS certificate, the chances that they'll land an English teaching job in Vietnam or anywhere else in the world is slim to zero (this statement is told by many expats residing in Vietnam).

I'm in a very tough position for now. My state of mind is f**ked. I see no way forward.

@charmavietnam that is why.

It's not that easy, I'm afraid.
I have scoured many expat forums and regretfully, found out that even if an Indian have an in-person CELTA certificate, a Bachelor's degree, an American accent and the IELTS certificate, the chances that they'll land an English teaching job in Vietnam or anywhere else in the world is slim to zero (this statement is told by many expats residing in Vietnam).
I'm in a very tough position for now. My state of mind is f**ked. I see no way forward.
-@Mezz007

Nonsense. What you are reading are people griping. Don't let those malcontents get you down, young man.

I know two Indian English teachers in T.P. Thai Nguyen, and two more (whom I know very well) in Hanoi. None of those 4 people have ever complained about being discriminated against in VN due to their colour/nationality. In fact, one of the Hanoi guys even plays up his Indian roots with such one-liners as, "Did you know, class, that there are more English speakers in India than there are people in all of England?"

Stay focused on that B.A. degree. Once you have it, the world will open up for you.

Be patient, study hard (your grades do matter), and chin up.

edit; By the way, do you know which nationality of English teacher is discriminated against the most in Vietnam? They are the Vietnamese English teachers. And yes, this includes Viet Kieu whose first language is English.

@Aidan in HCMC thank you so much. I needed to hear that.

@Aidan in HCMC Our country has finally implemented the new education policy. Now, we can go for either a 3-year bachelor's degree or a 4-year bachelor's degree (honors) with research.

Though, every website cites that a 4-year-bachelor's degree is imperative to be able to teach in Vietnam. So, should I go for the 4-year one (honors) with research or is a simple bachelor's degree (3 years) just as good?

@Aidan in edit; By the way, do you know which nationality of English teacher is discriminated against the most in Vietnam? They are the Vietnamese English teachers. And yes, this includes Viet Kieu whose first language is English.

Ha ha ha, that's so true is hilarious! Like most all of us (I suspect), I've had my share of head butting with the Vietnamese English teachers here.

@Aidan in edit; By the way, do you know which nationality of English teacher is discriminated against the most in Vietnam? They are the Vietnamese English teachers. And yes, this includes Viet Kieu whose first language is English.
Ha ha ha, that's so true is hilarious! Like most all of us (I suspect), I've had my share of head butting with the Vietnamese English teachers here.
-@drutter

Gobot did... (would love to find that thread about the bogus test)

@Aidan in HCMC Our country has finally implemented the new education policy. Now, we can go for either a 3-year bachelor's degree or a 4-year bachelor's degree (honors) with research.
Though, every website cites that a 4-year-bachelor's degree is imperative to be able to teach in Vietnam. So, should I go for the 4-year one (honors) with research or is a simple bachelor's degree (3 years) just as good?
-@Mezz007

Can you please help me out?

It'd immensely help me.

@Aidan in HCMC Our country has finally implemented the new education policy. Now, we can go for either a 3-year bachelor's degree or a 4-year bachelor's degree (honors) with research.
Though, every website cites that a 4-year-bachelor's degree is imperative to be able to teach in Vietnam. So, should I go for the 4-year one (honors) with research or is a simple bachelor's degree (3 years) just as good?
-@Mezz007

That's a good question, Mezz007, and one I'm sorry to say I cannot definitively answer.

I do know that, like India, Australia and the UK (as well as many other countries)  offer three year B.A. degree programs. I've met people doing Master of Arts (M.A.) studies in Canada who entered with their 3 year B.A.. Their 3 year B.A. was accepted at par with 4 year B.A. degrees issued in Canada. Their faculty was Humanities.

Hopefully members from countries with three year B.A. degrees can join in and offer their insight/experience with this regarding Vietnam teacher positions.

Keep in mind that the important thing in this case is not 3 vs. 4 years but what the Vietnamese authorities will accept for the work permit.  My guess is that as long as the diploma simply reads B.A (or BSc) and does not specify 3 years you should be fine.   

Overall, I think we have the cart waaaay before the horse.  Get back in school and check back in 3 years.  In three years you may find that you have entirely different occupational goals.

@THIGV thanks.

Though it's natural that the certificate would say something like: 2005-2008.

That would give away the years.

@THIGV thanks.
Though it's natural that the certificate would say something like: 2005-2008.
That would give away the years.
-@Mezz007

I have never ever seen a diploma that listed the date the holder began the program, only the date of graduation..   You're trolling us.   Go back to school.

@THIGV I'm sorry if it came off like I'm trolling you. I'm from India so maybe things are quite different here. You could look up though, it (the degree) does show dates here.