RNE expiration pending

06/19/23 @richashande. Good evening. I think that you're wise to plan on renewing your residency early. You have heard correctly that permanent residency cannot be renewed outside Brazil; you'll have to do it here. Coming early with all the right documents will give you more chance to deal with the unexpected.

Before coming to Brazil, you should make sure that the Brazilian passports of the Brazilian citizens of your family and up to date and valid, and that the passports of the US citizens are up to date and will remain valid during the time you plan to be in Brazil.

All of the terminology changed with the new Law of Migration that came into effect in November 2017, so what used to be called the CIE ("RNE") is now the CRNM, Carteira de Registro Nacional Mirgratório. This is the card that will be issued to you, if your applications are accepted. The documentation requirements at the Federal Police appear here:

https://www.gov.br/mj/pt-br/assuntos/se … residencia

You'll want "Para a RENOVAÇÃO do prazo de residência do imigrante em reunião familiar, os documentos"

You and your husband will each need an application, and your son almost certainly will as well, if he's an adolescent or older child and not a Brazilian citizen.

You will apply online (the link is on the page above), and make the appointment for your interview with the Federal Police online after the system shows your application as received. If your application is approved after your interview, your cards will probably be available for pickup at the Federal Police office in about a month. Cards have to be picked up in person, but you can leave a Power of Attorney ("Procuração") with someone you trust to pick them up on your behalf. That person can send them to you wherever you are, if you have left Brazil.

I have to warn you that there is a good chance that your applications will be rejected. CRNMs are issued to foreigners with Brazilian family members on the assumption that they will be living with their family members in Brazil. One of the documents that you will be required to provide is a declaration, under penalty of law, that the "Chamantes" -- your daughters -- currently reside in Brazil. If this is not the case, their status as Brazilian citizens is not affected, but the assumption is that you can make your Brazil visits on tourist visas, unless and until you move to Brazil permanently.

If that happens, you and your husband will need to decide whether to accept that decision, or to contest it legally: another good reason to start early, just in case.

@abthree erred in his response above

1. Permanent resident status is permanent as the name implies, unless there was any of the causes for loss of residence permit provided in law, such as being out of the country for longer that 24 Months. You don’t loss your permanent residence status when your card expires. You remain a permanent resident even if the card has expired and can used an expired card when applying for Citizenship, please refer to the requirements for citizenship application if in doubt
2. To answer the question, the validity of the passports of the Brazilian children and US passports has no bearing on the application to renew the permanent residence card
3. The link adthree provided is for residence permit application and not for Card renewal. You are already a permanent resident and don’t have to apply for residency. Here is the correct link https://www.gov.br/pf/pt-br/assuntos/im … o-de-prazo
4. You don’t have to provide a declaration, under penalty of law, that the "Chamantes" -- your daughters -- currently reside in Brazil. That is for residence permit application and not for card renewal application

see documents required for the card renewal below

Documentation

CHECKLIST – REPLACE THE RESIDENT'S MIGRATORY NATIONAL REGISTRY CARD FOR AN INDETERMINED PERIOD, DUE TO THE EXPIRATION DATE OF THE DOCUMENT ( CLASSIFICATION IN THE PERMANENT CARD )

Own application, through electronic form duly completed on the PF website (available at Substitute Carteira de Registro Nacional Migratório

1 (one) 3x4 photo, recent, in color, white background, plain paper, from the front (in case of unavailability of the Federal Police biometric data collection system, presentation may be required);

Statement of e-mail address and other means of contact, preferably accompanied by a simple copy of proof of residence ( click here );

National Migration Registration Card;

Declaration, under penalty of law, that none of the causes for loss of residence permit provided for in art. 135 of Decree No. 9,199, of 2017 ( click here );

Proof of payment of the CRNM issuance fee (revenue code 140120, amount R$204.77), when applicable (to issue the Union Collection Guide, click here );

06/20/23 @dyanti28. Your post is incorrect, and I do not intend to debate it with you. The Original Posters should follow your advice at their own risk.

@abthree I don’t think anyone joined this forum because they were looking for a platform to debate

I think you meant to say the Policia Federal are incorrect and not me because I was not the one who wrote the information contained in the link that I provided and the other information on the PF website relating to my post

The original poster should do their own research and not be alarmed by your post. All the information is available on the website of PF

@dyantyi28 @abthree - The fact remains that anyone in this situation (or many similar others) should retain their own bilingual and experienced immigration attorney within the region in which they propose to reside (as that is where they will have to present themselves to the PF). If anything goes wrong then they will have recourse...

I have heard so many differences in the way cases are treated by the PF, and it appears to vary from one region to another. Furthermore an attorney experienced in immigration matters should already have very good contacts within the PF, and may be able to "swing" certain aspects. Although immigration law is written in stone, there are many aspects to it that are open to interpretation and differing application.

Under no circumstances should anybody rely solely on information in this or any other forum. We can offer each other advice, suggestions and guidance, but we are not the PF where an application is to be made...

@Peter Itamaraca And sharing of experiences based on facts can open up peoples ideas from a learning perspective

dyantyi28

"Permanent resident status is permanent as the name implies, unless there was any of the causes for loss of residence permit provided in law, such as being out of the country for longer that 24 Months. You don’t loss your permanent residence status when your card expires. You remain a permanent resident even if the card has expired and can used an expired card when applying for Citizenship, please refer to the requirements for citizenship application if in doubt"

-@dyantyi28

Please, be very careful. I have no idea where you are getting your information, but you are quite incorrect and providing very wrong information. Unless you can provide some links to fa actual links to this information, I fear for those taking your advice.

Thanks everyone for the input. We lived in Brazil for almost five years and have traveled to and within the country for over a decade so we worked within the various legal processes and know  very well that it is rarely cut and dry when it comes to legal processes.  So I actually appreciate the varying viewpoints and experiences to help me in my research of what we need to do under our time constraints.

The processes were very different when we gained residency in 2012, so it stands to reason there is a lot for us to navigate now.

06/20/23 @richashande.  Please keep us updated on how it goes for you.  Every case is different, but it's all useful data.  Good luck.

@rraypo please be more specific as to the information that your are referring to as incorrect so that I can send you the link

with regards to documents required to renew the card, I have already provided a link

if you are referring to the comment that I made regarding application for naturalisation using an expired permanent residence card (CRNM), please see below link

https://www.gov.br/mj/pt-br/assuntos/se … leira/view

Here is the extract

“Residence for an indefinite period is a registration made at the Federal Police. Click here for more information about the Registry.

The main document attesting to residence for an indefinite period in the national territory is the registration made with the Federal Police and the National Migratory Registration Card or CRNM, even if expired.”

The permanent residency status doesn’t expire with the card. Please note that I am referring to people with permanent residence status here and not people with temporary residency status

@dyantyi28

My understanding from the beginning of our process over a decade ago was exactly that: that our residency did not ever expire, but our cards did have to be renewed.

Similar to any other identifying card (driver's license, passport, etc), the documents themselves need renewal, but it is not a reflection of the actual status of our residence which is classified as "permanent" on our RNE.

Obviously, there is the stipulation that we not go more than 24 months without at least checking into the country, which we have maintained since moving back to the US.

I was definitely surprised to read that we would be at risk of not having our cards renewed simply because our Brazilian children no longer reside in the country (they are both still minors and under our care).

It stands to reason that that is not the case simply because our permanent residency is based on having a Brazilian child (and not one of the other ways to obtain residency like investing in a business, etc).

But I also know that reason is not always the greatest factor when dealing with law. We have had plenty of situations present themselves that didn't "make sense" but were in fact the reality.