Living in Vietnam, long-term

I don't have any advices for you but I want to say you that you came and live here because of natuaral bond ( in Vietnamese is DUYÊN ) it happen very naturally and we can't guess what will happen.I believe that you will overcome and get a good answer to all things

Just a couple of points:

1. If you have kids, the environment is not as good as abroad (unless you live in Harlem ). Even if they go to international schools, it is still a pressure cooker environment.

2. Not everyone willing to put up with the hassles in daily life: traffic, noise, uncleanliness, uncertainties. Yes, serious crime rate is low, but petty crimes, well, you know the story.

Hello Anatta,

I totally agree with you on the education.  The schools here, even the international ones, have lots of ground to cover.

But, the daily life, I am not so sure, especially when it comes to retirees.  Here, I think if you put your money in the right places and pick the correct dwelling area, good things can be achieved.  Don't you think so?

Reason #1 for living here: The people...since my arrival 2+yrs. ago, most everywhere I look, I see evidence of respect, from people that are genuine. I've lived in Europe and traveled extensively around Europe, Southeast Asia and all over the US. Taking a short trip back to Florida soon to pay respect to my Dad on his 80th birthday and looking forward to coming back. As far as I'm concerned, Vietnam is the place to be...right here...right now. Never been happier. Most of my family members and friends are not willing to come here or take the risk of starting over in a strange place, different culture, language, etc... but a few of them are. Reason #2 is that there are numerous opportunities here. I guess those are reasons enough for this expat.

Howie
Certainly, if you live in the right place, it certainly helps but not completely. You still meet the same hassles. You mentioned on the other thread about the problem you met giving out scholarships. That would happen, independently of where you live.

You also mentioned "If there is less bureaucratic red-tapes, better roads and a higher standard in customer service, Vietnam would be an ideal place to live and work." --> we discussed about it in another thread, but what you are hoping for is what I experience right now in Thailand. Would Vietnam be like that when I retire? I certainly hope so,.... In material standard and infrastructure, probably. In people's mindset, I am not so optimistic. Not to say that Thailand is perfect, far from it, but from a daily life, far fewer hassles than what you and I are experiencing in Vietnam. There must be a reason that there are tons of foreigners choosing to retire in Thailand and it has been consistently voted to be among the best places to retire in the world.

Again, not to praise Thailand, this is just a point of reference

Howie
nice to meet u!
i think i think vietnam is great choice.b/c its society isn't too complicated. just living and enjoy your life

Hi Nhu,

"Society isn't too complicated," that is easy for you to say.  You grew up here; you were schooled to live and work in this society.  Whereas, most of us on here were brought up in entirely different settings; and we were mostly trained to live and work in very different ways.  So, no--this society is very complicated!

Yes, once a person has this society figured out, people and things do come rather easily.  But, it is a load.

Hello Vnescape,

80 years young, huh?  Wow, that is something to celebrate, indeed.  Congrats to all of you.  My Dad is 72.  I certainly hope that he will be with us to 80 and beyond.

Yes, there are lots of opportunities here.  However, be warned that things come and go very quickly here.  It is just a normal part of being a place in the middle of change.

I am glad to know that you are enjoying yourself here.  Keep it going and keep us posted.

Howie

Hi Anatta,

My dad, a while back, told me: "In Vietnam, if you align yourself with the right people, you will get away with shits the size of elephants.  But, if you don't for any reason, gold the size of an ant won't get pass."

When I first started here, being young and frivolous, I didn't really heed that advice, especially with that scholarship debacle.  I thought that I had righteousness on my side; and that my American ways were better.  I found out...

After that, I took the above advice to heart, especially this time around and in the area where I am now living.  I made the neccessary efforts to get to know the people and to allowed them to get to know me, particularly the movers-and-shakers.  Life has never been better, my friend.

I am going to have to continue this later.  To me, this is quite sensitive.  It is why I didn't respond immediately.

Regards,
Howie

Howie, you are absolutely right.

In VN its who you know that count not what you know.

A.N

Hello fellas,

I am back.  And most certainly, Antoine.  That is how it works here:  know the right people and you are exempt from most, if not all, of the hassles bestowed upon your being a foreigner.  It takes lots of work.  But, the benefits make it all worthwhile.  Can you imagine having the freshest things, the most organic, from the market delivered to your doors anytime you want?  That happens here. 

Now, about the improvements, overall Vietnam is leaps and bounds from what it was 10 years ago.  It certainly has lots of ground left to cover.  But, there are now pockets within this country that are more than adequate in sustaining us, Phu My Hung for instance or that Imperial Hotel in Vung Tau...

And about the people's mindset, Anatta, they too had gone through lots of make-overs.  Do you recall the days that guys like us, Viet Kieu, were condemned here (enemy of the state)?  To small groups in government, we still raise suspicions; but to the majority, we are regarded and to be emulated.

How long will it take for this country and these people to reach the level of Thailand?  To me, that depends on how quickly we can shed ourselves of the hatreds and the prejudices.  It might take years or even generations.  I don't know.  But, the one thing I am certain of is that I won't help in perpetuating it.  And, this comes from, no Joe Smuck but, the oldest son of a South Vietnamese army colonel, who came within breaths of facing the firing squad in '75.

So, just open up a little fellas, amazing things can happen here. 

Best wishes,
Howie

10 years ago? We started coming back 20 years ago. Things have really changed for the better. Internet? Whats that? TV, think there were 4 or 5 stations on about 8 to 12 hours a day. Look at what’s provided now. Red tape, you ain't seen red tape like it was back then. We built a small foot and motorcycle bridge back in 1995. At that time an average of one to two people drowned evert year. The only way they had access to medical care, for the kids to go to school, or to do any shopping was riding small rickety boats across a river. We got it built but it was a very interesting learning experience.

Howie and Budman
Good to hear your comments.
As mentioned, I am positive about the infrastructure (the hardware). It will improve, I am sure, albeit slowly. I am more concerned about the mindset (the software).
It is difficult to change the mindset of the society. Things that are subtle but contribute to a civil society. Things like not to worry about having to bribe /get hassled by whoever holds any kinds of decision making (even your kids' teachers in form of tutoring so they will hold your kids back). No worry about walking on the street and get your phone snatched or get hit by a driver who just does not respect a pedestrian's rights (most likely because he is son of some big shot). Do something (new) and you are not afraid to get ripped off/lied to because you are a newbie and thus a fair game. Get info and you can trust that info instead of having to check it several times...

Anatta,

The things that you are wishing for will come as conditions improve.  As of right now, the "side" money is more than what people make in salaries.  In some posts, the higher-ups even facilitate it, because they know full well that they can not provide for their juniors with those small budgets.  There is this saying among the Vietnamese, "When the belly is hungry, the hands are going to start grabbing or the feet will start kicking."  But, if the belly is fed, then those hands and feet are going to start doing things that stimulate the brain.  And when the brain is stimulated, good ideas and positive actions will come about.

Howie
Right. I hope the old saying "Phú quý sinh lễ nghĩa" means "wealth results in moral conduct" not "wealth results in new showy, rigid rules of social behavior"

I chose to live in (South) Vietnam as my wife is Viet and housing is too expensive back home.I too love the suburbs and I am based on the outskirts of Saigon. Very peaceful & quiet.

Hello Owenkhoo,

Thanks for chiming in and welcome to south Vietnam.  I hope that you are strapped in, because the ride is going to be rather bumpy.  But, it will be fun and rewarding, though.  Lots to learn and to grow from.

Singaporean huh?  I went there about 2 months ago.  Really loved the place!  As a matter of fact, I liked it so much that I have been thinking that when I have kids, I will send them to Singapore for elementary and middle school, as opposed to back to the US.  I really liked that 0 tolerance on drugs policy, low crime rate, strong emphasis on personal discipline, cleanliness and Mandarin.   What do you think?  Does it make sense?

Howie

Wow, Singapore; need a truckload of cash! I worked as a flight attendant for the National Airline,SQ, as well as for the Budget Carrier, Tiger Airways. This was what led me to the Nam, and my father-in-law fought along side the United States Army (Airborne Infantry) during the Vietnam War. He survived and had 7 kids, one of whom I married just last year...

Hello guys,

In many of my other posts, I often encouraged the building of a strong personal network as a way of making life easier here.  For those who still doubt its value, let me share this experience with you.

I came to Vietnam in the spring of '09, on a Visa Exemption Card.  Nonetheless, I still had to check in with immigration every 3 months, much like you would with your tourist visa.

For the 1st check in, being a fresh face with no local connection, the process took me a day and cost 640,000 VNDs.

But, for my 2nd check in, I enlisted the help of one of my new friends, who went to school with one of the immigration officers.  I gave him my paperworks and that of my visiting father; BOTH cost me the time to fill out the forms and 320,000 VNDs.  I was baffled!

Then, I needed to reclaim my Vietnamese citizenship, a major immigration undertaking at the time.  So, to ensure that my paperworks go through smoothly and timely, I called upon one of my old contacts in immigration headquarter for assistance.

When my paperworks came back approved within a month, not the usual 6 months to a year, almost the entire immigration office where I lived came to see me to offer coffees and beers (a gesture of friendship) and seek introductions to my contact at headquarter.

After I had hooked them all up and, on occasions, went to their once-dreaded office to play ping pong, I needed to get my Vietnamese passport.  Unwilling to exploit my relationships with my new immigration friends, I went to the office, filled out my forms and was waiting for my turn just like everyone else there.

But, as soon as one of those new friends saw me, he immediately rushed over to offer help in pushing my paperworks through.  Because it was pouring rain outside and I wasn't going anywhere anytime soon, I politely declined.

A couple of days later, one of my trusted elders here learned about it and came to have a chat with me.  According to him, I was wrong in declining the guy's help.  That was like "saying that he wasn't good enough to assist you (me), he wasn't good enough to be your (my) friend;" and turning people like that away was a big no no.  He even told me not to worry about the other people who were there: "only the dumb ones among them would complain.  The wise ones would admire you (me).  They would even befriend you (me) for future helps; and thus, providing you (me) with opportunities to further expand your (my) network, a major requirement for peaceful livings here." 

I later contacted the guy that I turned away at immigration, shared a couples of beers with him and offered my apology of ignorance.  We became better friends afterward; I and my family have not had to concern ourselves with immigration matters since.

It was a wonderful learning experience for me and a great building block for my future interactions with the locals.

Hope that all of you will get similar experiences and results in your neck of the wood here.

Regards,
Howie