Still confused about property taxes in Hungary... 4%? This cannot be!?

You already said it yourself.   There should be no confusion.

There is a transaction (stamp) tax of 4% or so of the purchase price you have to pay once (in two parts) when you buy a property.

Then there is or was a regular tax you may have to pay to the local government based on property value (which is not the resale value).   This seems to have been inexplicably cancelled but it might not last if the government changes.   It looks politically motivated.  Anyway 0% where I live.

If you have a second property and rent it out short term like an AirBnB, it will be income so you'd have to pay income tax on what you receive and usually there's hotel occupancy tax which may vary by location.

If you buy a property, with the stamp tax and lawyers etc, you would be paying of fees of 8-10% including stamp taxes. All once.

You mentioned that you are eligible to HU citizenship.   If you decide to buy as a US citizen, you need permission/a permit from the local government and it costs money,  If you buy as a HU citizen (or EU) then you don't need permission/a permit.  So sort that HU passport out asap.

Of course you still have to pay for garbage, electricity, water, gas, phone/internet, car insurance and vehicle licensing blah-blah.  It's endless and relentless.  Car insurance has become horribly expensive recently.

@fluffy2560 ... I am 100% getting Hungarian citizenship. It is already in process. Both parents were born in Hungary along with rest of entire family. I speak Hungarian... my parents left Hungary and never bothered to get me my Hungarian citizenship! But I will get it now ASAP

1.Seems I got confused because I thought 4% tax rate was the actual annual property tax rate. But the 4% rate is not the actual property tax? It is only a one time fee (split into two separate payments). It is confusing how google writes things because google states the below which is implying that the annual property tax rate is 4%. I almost had heart attack when I read the below....

If you own a property in Hungary, you'll also have the pay property tax. The amount you pay depends on the location where the property is situated. The average cost per year is around €3 per sq/m or a maximum of 3% of the market value of the property.

2.So the above is actually the 4% "transaction (stamp) tax" and NOT the actual annual property tax which appears have been cancelled in many places in Hungary but not in all areas of HU.

3.Why do they force you to pay the "transaction (stamp) tax" in 2 parts? Why can't it simply be paid once and be done with? Sorry you mentioned lawyers... you mean if I use real estate agent? Damn that stamp tax is expensive! But the fact that the annual property taxes is almost non-existent makes up for it in a BIG way.

Thanks!

EDIT: To live somewhere where you can actually feel like you own your house is incredible. It's not something I could ever have in the US.

I got rid of my car earlier this year. I sold it and I ride my bicycle everywhere. Car insurance was almost $200/month. Crazy RIP OFF. I had enough. So bye bye car.

I can't imagine in Hungary it is anywhere near that expensive?

If I could, I much rather ride a horse. I love horses. In Hungary country side I might be able to just that LOL

    I got rid of my car earlier this year. I sold it and I ride my bicycle everywhere. Car insurance was almost $200/month. Crazy RIP OFF. I had enough. So bye bye car.I can't imagine in Hungary it is anywhere near that expensive?If I could, I much rather ride a horse. I love horses. In Hungary country side I might be able to just that LOL        -@juliet1980

You can have basic car insurance for about 70K HUF a year and Casco (all risk) for 130K HUF depending on the vehicle (like mid-size) but you have to shop around.  It's cheaper than the USA it seems.

If you live in the hills, you are not going to be able to bring materials to a site on your bicycle.

Hungarians are very keen on their horses but it's a bit elitist.  There are lots of stables you can connect up with.  Some richer people have their own stables.

    @fluffy2560 ... I am 100% getting Hungarian citizenship. It is already in process. Both parents were born in Hungary along with rest of entire family. I speak Hungarian... my parents left Hungary and never bothered to get me my Hungarian citizenship! But I will get it now ASAP
1.Seems I got confused because I thought 4% tax rate was the actual annual property tax rate. But the 4% rate is not the actual property tax? It is only a one time fee (split into two separate payments). It is confusing how google writes things because google states the below which is implying that the annual property tax rate is 4%. I almost had heart attack when I read the below....

If you own a property in Hungary, you'll also have the pay property tax. The amount you pay depends on the location where the property is situated. The average cost per year is around €3 per sq/m or a maximum of 3% of the market value of the property.

2.So the above is actually the 4% "transaction (stamp) tax" and NOT the actual annual property tax which appears have been cancelled in many places in Hungary but not in all areas of HU.

3.Why do they force you to pay the "transaction (stamp) tax" in 2 parts? Why can't it simply be paid once and be done with? Sorry you mentioned lawyers... you mean if I use real estate agent? Damn that stamp tax is expensive! But the fact that the annual property taxes is almost non-existent makes up for it in a BIG way.

Thanks!

EDIT: To live somewhere where you can actually feel like you own your house is incredible. It's not something I could ever have in the US.
   

    -@juliet1980

Ok, so when that HU citizenship is done, you can show that to your lawyer and you don't need a permit or permission. I never understood why parents let citizenship slide.  I insist my kids have their dual nationality and I insist they use it to assert their citizen rights when we go back to my mothership (UK).

You cannot believe anything Google tells you.  It can do stupid things like tell you the property law in India when you ask about some other place.  It's dumb piece of crap trying to do geo-location as though that is useful. And of course, it could be way out of date anyway.

I don't know if they cancelled the property tax elsewhere.  They did where I live. However, I think at the Mrs Fluffy family Balaton property they still pay something for the holiday house. I'd have to ask her to find out and I'm not currently at home.   She's also got a share in a historic house and I think something gets paid there too.  She also has yet another share in another house and I think that's 0%. The 3% you mentioned might exist but might be cancelled. You'd have to ask in the locality where your potential house is.

The two parts stamp tax is because people cannot afford to pay it in one lump.  They send you both the bills when your name is in the property register.   You can pay both together or separately. It's entirely up to you.  We paid ours as two separate bills immediately and at the same time as we could do that.

Real Estate agents (aka sharks) take a percentage from the seller.  Then you pay a percentage to the lawyer.  It's a rip off and unnecessary to base their fees on a percentage.  But you can negotiate and argue. In the end, you pay directly to the accounts of the owner(s).  I was in the lawyers office with Mrs Fluffy, signed the contract and we paid the three owners by bank transfer there and then.  Once we paid it was over EXCEPT that while we had the keys, in theory, we couldn't do anything to fix the place up until our names were in the property register (took a few weeks).  That's when it becomes official.  The stamp duty bill comes in the post later on when the tax office and property register catches up with each other.

I would always recommend driving around the areas you are interested in. You will see Elado on a lot of properties.  Everyone wants to avoid the real estate fees.  We sold our last house when a guy walking past saw the large sign we'd made and put on the fence.  No realtor involved.

No harming in repeating it - don't not believe realtor's or owner's claims on utilities. Unless you can see it on site already (and provably), then you could be in for expensive trouble with laying of pipes.  Water is the worst even if electricity is there.  Others more optional.  If water is far away, you could end up paying for the water for all your neighbours too.  Once the pipe is in, the neighbours will want to connect to your pipe! And effectively it's at your cost!   Horrible.

@juliet1980 The 4% is a one off, not recurring and in most of European countries it is normal, if you are a real resident property taxes are very low, but in many cities you have to pay more (still not excessive if you are a non-resident or not use the property for year-around living). If you live there property taxes are VERY VERY low

@cdw057 Where we lived paid EUR 50 property taxes or around per year, come communities might charge MUCH more though. (depends on where you live (ask before)

   
    I got rid of my car earlier this year. I sold it and I ride my bicycle everywhere. Car insurance was almost $200/month. Crazy RIP OFF. I had enough. So bye bye car.I can't imagine in Hungary it is anywhere near that expensive?If I could, I much rather ride a horse. I love horses. In Hungary country side I might be able to just that LOL        -@juliet1980

You can have basic car insurance for about 70K HUF a year and Casco (all risk) for 130K HUF depending on the vehicle (like mid-size) but you have to shop around.  It's cheaper than the USA it seems.

If you live in the hills, you are not going to be able to bring materials to a site on your bicycle.

Hungarians are very keen on their horses but it's a bit elitist.  There are lots of stables you can connect up with.  Some richer people have their own stables.
   

    -@fluffy2560

Holy smokes... 130K HUF? That appears to be $368.93 in US dollars ... that is extremely expensive!! I would have a used SUV or truck. Not a new car. So hopefully car insurance won't be too bad.

    @juliet1980 The 4% is a one off, not recurring and in most of European countries it is normal, if you are a real resident property taxes are very low, but in many cities you have to pay more (still not excessive if you are a non-resident or not use the property for year-around living). If you live there property taxes are VERY VERY low        -@cdw057

Thanks I am very relieved about that. At first I thought property taxes could possibly be about 3% or 4% in Hungary needing to be paid every single year for as long as I own the home. Thank goodness that is not the case (stupid google almost gave me heart attack).

I now understand the 3% or 4% is a one time "transaction (stamp) tax" and is charged only once (possible to split into 2 payments).

I wonder what property taxes are like in Austria, Spain and various other parts of the EU. Most of my family lives in Sweden/Norway. I could NEVER live there long term... the taxes are INSANE.

I need cheap cost of living and that also applies to taxes.

Sorry to triple post. I wonder what the average price of home insurance in Hungary is. My home insurance recently doubled for NO freaking reason! Everything in the US is KILLING me!!! I don't want to live like this anymore. I wish I could move NOW.

Holy smokes... 130K HUF? That appears to be $368.93 in US dollars ... that is extremely expensive!! I would have a used SUV or truck. Not a new car. So hopefully car insurance won't be too bad.
   

    -@juliet1980

No it isn't.

I should have been clearer.

It's HUF 200K total for basic and all risks combined for something like a mid-size car, say 3 years old and Mrs F as the main driver.  Mrs F is late 50s and I'm early 60s.   

That's PER YEAR.    So less than USD 600.  Use this conversion tool.

While one has insurance claiming on it is not always that easy.

    Sorry to triple post. I wonder what the average price of home insurance in Hungary is. My home insurance recently doubled for NO freaking reason! Everything in the US is KILLING me!!! I don't want to live like this anymore. I wish I could move NOW.        -@juliet1980

They didn't increase insurance costs for no reason, it's because their profitability is under pressure, presumably due to increase claims.  I don't remember the HU house insurance but there's an upper limit at the moment.  It's not market value but rebuilding costs. They haven't really increased that since materials (usually imported) have shot up too.   

Things aren't rosy in Hungary. It's not the promised land.  Food prices are up maybe  100% in a year, VAT Is 27%, fuel is like $7 a US gallon (double US prices but we buy in litres though).

And the HU government is divisive and horrible.  And there's a war next door.  Lunatics are running countries on the borders of Hungary (currently Slovakia and Serbia).  It can only get worse.  The EU dislikes Orban and he hates them back for his convenience.  This is blocking up EU financing post-COVID.  If he goes one way or another, things might improve, i.e. Hungary adopt the EURO etc.

Summary:  the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

@juliet1980

• I have the same confusion. It would be a lot .

        Sorry to triple post. I wonder what the average price of home insurance in Hungary is. My home insurance recently doubled for NO freaking reason! Everything in the US is KILLING me!!! I don't want to live like this anymore. I wish I could move NOW.        -@juliet1980They didn't increase insurance costs for no reason, it's because their profitability is under pressure, presumably due to increase claims.  I don't remember the HU house insurance but there's an upper limit at the moment.  It's not market value but rebuilding costs. They haven't really increased that since materials (usually imported) have shot up too.   Things aren't rosy in Hungary. It's not the promised land.  Food prices are up maybe  100% in a year, VAT Is 27%, fuel is like $7 a US gallon (double US prices but we buy in litres though). And the HU government is divisive and horrible.  And there's a war next door.  Lunatics are running countries on the borders of Hungary (currently Slovakia and Serbia).  It can only get worse.  The EU dislikes Orban and he hates them back for his convenience.  This is blocking up EU financing post-COVID.  If he goes one way or another, things might improve, i.e. Hungary adopt the EURO etc.Summary:  the grass is not always greener elsewhere.        -@fluffy2560

I'm not concerned about food prices as I would be growing 80+% of my food. No Dig method... is the best! At least IMO.

My biggest concerns are cost of healthcare in the US (ever increasing DISASTER and a stress I simply do not want in my life) along with sky high property taxes (I do NOT consent to being taxed to death of thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars every year on my home "roof over my head" that I end up leasing from the government even if mortgage fully paid off... that is absurd!!)... so many people are literally taxed out of their homes in the US along with very high cost of real estate etc. Considering this, and more, the grass is definitely greener in Portugal or Hungary! I can have far better quality of life there for so many many reasons without the financial STRESS.

Huge fan of Nomad Capitalist. "Go Where You're Treated Best"... and that ain't the US!

        Sorry to triple post. I wonder what the average price of home insurance in Hungary is. My home insurance recently doubled for NO freaking reason! Everything in the US is KILLING me!!! I don't want to live like this anymore. I wish I could move NOW.        -@juliet1980They didn't increase insurance costs for no reason, it's because their profitability is under pressure, presumably due to increase claims.  I don't remember the HU house insurance but there's an upper limit at the moment.  It's not market value but rebuilding costs. They haven't really increased that since materials (usually imported) have shot up too.   Things aren't rosy in Hungary. It's not the promised land.  Food prices are up maybe  100% in a year, VAT Is 27%, fuel is like $7 a US gallon (double US prices but we buy in litres though). And the HU government is divisive and horrible.  And there's a war next door.  Lunatics are running countries on the borders of Hungary (currently Slovakia and Serbia).  It can only get worse.  The EU dislikes Orban and he hates them back for his convenience.  This is blocking up EU financing post-COVID.  If he goes one way or another, things might improve, i.e. Hungary adopt the EURO etc.Summary:  the grass is not always greener elsewhere.        -@fluffy2560

I HATE insurance companies they are scumbags. I do not feel sorry for any insurance companies. It's also the over printing of money. Insane inflation. I don't care about anything at all... I simply want a peaceful life in the country side on a few acres, grow my own food, have pet chickens again (vegan... so they are just pets LOL).... and live my life without the serious financial headaches I will ALWAYS have if I were to stay in the US.

I'm not concerned about food prices as I would be growing 80+% of my food. No Dig method... is the best! At least IMO.
My biggest concerns are cost of healthcare in the US (ever increasing DISASTER and a stress I simply do not want in my life) along with sky high property taxes (I do NOT consent to bein taxed to death on my home "roof over my head" that I end up leasing from the government even if mortgage fully paid off), cost of real estate etc. Considering this, and more, the grass is definitely greener in Portugal or Hungary! I can have far better quality of life there for so many many reasons without the financial STRESS.

Huge fan of Nomad Capitalist. "Go Where You're Treat Best"... and that ain't the US!
   
    -@juliet1980

80% might be optimistic.  Weather is variable. You cannot grow oranges and lemons and you don't want to end up with scurvy.  You will  have to use supermarkets to cover gaps.  And no bananas growing in Hungary.

If you want your own chickens and animals, you have to abide by the animal regulations. There have been some disease outbreaks.  We had free range chickens and the neighbours complained about it but not very strongly. We did however get 1 x egg per chicken per day which was OK.  They were pets really for the kids.  Unfortunately negligence by those looking after them when we were away caused them to be all murdered by a weasel or a fox or something.  That was the end of the chickens for us.   Kids have moved on to dogs and cats.

Upside on USA is that healthcare in Europe is all socialised and so will not bankrupt you.  It's not all of the same standard in every country.  Probably the large countries/economies like Germany, France, Netherlands, Sweden and Spain etc are the best.  Smaller ones might not have the skills for complex conditions.

As for tax, you'll just get taxed in another way, perhaps in better ways for you.

    I'm not concerned about food prices as I would be growing 80+% of my food. No Dig method... is the best! At least IMO.My biggest concerns are cost of healthcare in the US (ever increasing DISASTER and a stress I simply do not want in my life) along with sky high property taxes (I do NOT consent to bein taxed to death on my home "roof over my head" that I end up leasing from the government even if mortgage fully paid off), cost of real estate etc. Considering this, and more, the grass is definitely greener in Portugal or Hungary! I can have far better quality of life there for so many many reasons without the financial STRESS. Huge fan of Nomad Capitalist. "Go Where You're Treat Best"... and that ain't the US!        -@juliet198080% might be optimistic.  Weather is variable. You cannot grow oranges and lemons and you don't want to end up with scurvy.  You will  have to use supermarkets to cover gaps.  And no bananas growing in Hungary.If you want your own chickens and animals, you have to abide by the animal regulations. There have been some disease outbreaks.  We had free range chickens and the neighbours complained about it but not very strongly. We did however get 1 x egg per chicken per day which was OK.  They were pets really for the kids.  Unfortunately negligence by those looking after them when we were away caused them to be all murdered by a weasel or a fox or something.  That was the end of the chickens for us.   Kids have moved on to dogs and cats.Upside on USA is that healthcare in Europe is all socialised and so will not bankrupt you.  It's not all of the same standard in every country.  Probably the large countries/economies like Germany, France, Netherlands, Sweden and Spain etc are the best.  Smaller ones might not have the skills for complex conditions. As for tax, you'll just get taxed in another way, perhaps in better ways for you.        -@fluffy2560

Yes I'm sure they get you one way or the other... with the tax. But hopefully they know how to handle (detect) melanoma in Hungary or Portugal. Because that is deadly in short time and since I had it before I am super paranoid! I must go to dermatologist for skin checks every 3 to 6 months.

Yes I'm sure they get you one way or the other... with the tax. But hopefully they know how to handle (detect) melanoma in Hungary or Portugal. Because that is deadly in short time and since I had it before I am super paranoid! I must go to dermatologist for skin checks every 3 to 6 months.
   

    -@juliet1980

I would think they'd know that.  I would urge caution.  We often resort to private care for the kids if we don't believe the GP.  The GP believes in homeopathy so the alarm bells ring then.  Mrs Fluffy always comes back with quack medicines which annoys me intensely.  Might as well have a packet of biscuits for all the good they will do.

If you get an aggressive brain tumour, you're probably going to die as it's a small country with limited skills.   8 years ago today (my time), my brother died of a brain tumour.  He was in Portugal at the time where he had a senior job in the oil industry.  They decided they couldn't treat him. He was terminal so his family shipped him back to the UK where they could treat him and had the resources and machines.  It was never going to save him but it did extend his life by possibly 5 months or more.  However, his quality of life was quite low towards the end. 

On the other hand, Mrs F's cousin in HU had an aggressive form of bone cancer.  He beat the odds lasting 5 years.  He was a nice guy and it was a shame.  He may have extended his life by becoming a lab rat for various treatments they were experimenting with.  But it seemed to have worked for a period.  However it was short lived and the end came.

Health is very important, but with certain things (labrats) you can not change too much, to me it is genes which determine things. If I die, i die, I am not going to fight cancer for a few extra years.

Another topic, people say hapiness is important, but so is money (just for comfortable life). In Hungary we knew some pensioners who had very, very difficult life (a bit of money is important). One has to be able to live in relative comfort, we do not require much, but being in debt or very limited means can be terrible.

Bottom line accept life as it is and enjoy if you can.

@juliet1980 You mention parents and the rest of the family in Hungary, they should be able to give you much, much info and also help?

This forum is very useful and a lot of info, but just talking with your family is easy?

You are in a good situation

@juliet1980 For a luxury property (and forest) just around EUR 600 per year, if only property of EUR 100 K far less I would think (ask your family)

I was quite happy (compared to other countries)

    Yes I'm sure they get you one way or the other... with the tax. But hopefully they know how to handle (detect) melanoma in Hungary or Portugal. Because that is deadly in short time and since I had it before I am super paranoid! I must go to dermatologist for skin checks every 3 to 6 months.        -@juliet1980I would think they'd know that.  I would urge caution.  We often resort to private care for the kids if we don't believe the GP.  The GP believes in homeopathy so the alarm bells ring then.  Mrs Fluffy always comes back with quack medicines which annoys me intensely.  Might as well have a packet of biscuits for all the good they will do.If you get an aggressive brain tumour, you're probably going to die as it's a small country with limited skills.   8 years ago today (my time), my brother died of a brain tumour.  He was in Portugal at the time where he had a senior job in the oil industry.  They decided they couldn't treat him. He was terminal so his family shipped him back to the UK where they could treat him and had the resources and machines.  It was never going to save him but it did extend his life by possibly 5 months or more.  However, his quality of life was quite low towards the end.  On the other hand, Mrs F's cousin in HU had an aggressive form of bone cancer.  He beat the odds lasting 5 years.  He was a nice guy and it was a shame.  He may have extended his life by becoming a lab rat for various treatments they were experimenting with.  But it seemed to have worked for a period.  However it was short lived and the end came.         -@fluffy2560

I mentioned our neighbors brother who cut his leg almost off. The village medical clinic near him didn't know anything about vascular surgery but he got extremely lucky that day.

Peope in the village knew a doctor who just happened to be visiting in the viallage and he ran over and did basic surgery to save the leg before the guy was sent to the city for more care.

Again he was super lucky, they found he was very ill with bladder cancer! He never would of known in time if he hadn't almost cut his leg off.

It's been at least 8 year now and he's fine, leg works and his cancer is either gone or managed.

The stars were in the right place for him.

My brother died just about 16 months agoo from stage 4 colon cancer. He had some of the best health coverage any persn could have in the US.

They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars n Y 90 treatments fr him.

He still passed away from a simple thing, sepsis.They didn't see it coming, such a silly thing to get him.

My mother had breast cancer, beat it for 12 years so hearing the word cancer isn't time to throw in the towel.

What this has to do with taxes, IDK.

I know my brother paid all of his, silly guy was working just 2 days before he kicked it. Uncle Sam was happy I suppose.

@juliet1980

only one time 4% not every year

I think for the sake of your senity ( especially if you speak hungarian) find an accountant! They work for pennies. My accountant did my taxes, my husband’s taxes for a year when we sold a home and bought another one and only charged me 20.000 forint.  I could’ve never figured out what to pay in taxes in a million years. Taxing is extremely confusing in Hungary. So you are better off with a professional’s advice rather than  finding the wrong answer which could cost you either more $ or at least more headaches to straighten out.

good luck!

Livia

    Yes I'm sure they get you one way or the other... with the tax. But hopefully they know how to handle (detect) melanoma in Hungary or Portugal. Because that is deadly in short time and since I had it before I am super paranoid! I must go to dermatologist for skin checks every 3 to 6 months.        -@juliet1980

I would think they'd know that.  I would urge caution.  We often resort to private care for the kids if we don't believe the GP.  The GP believes in homeopathy so the alarm bells ring then.  Mrs Fluffy always comes back with quack medicines which annoys me intensely.  Might as well have a packet of biscuits for all the good they will do.

If you get an aggressive brain tumour, you're probably going to die as it's a small country with limited skills.   8 years ago today (my time), my brother died of a brain tumour.  He was in Portugal at the time where he had a senior job in the oil industry.  They decided they couldn't treat him. He was terminal so his family shipped him back to the UK where they could treat him and had the resources and machines.  It was never going to save him but it did extend his life by possibly 5 months or more.  However, his quality of life was quite low towards the end. 

On the other hand, Mrs F's cousin in HU had an aggressive form of bone cancer.  He beat the odds lasting 5 years.  He was a nice guy and it was a shame.  He may have extended his life by becoming a lab rat for various treatments they were experimenting with.  But it seemed to have worked for a period.  However it was short lived and the end came.
   

    -@fluffy2560

To be honest if I were stricken with such cancer it's game over no matter how you look at it or what I would be located in the world. I keep my fingers crossed that will not happen!

    @juliet1980 You mention parents and the rest of the family in Hungary, they should be able to give you much, much info and also help?This forum is very useful and a lot of info, but just talking with your family is easy?You are in a good situation        -@cdw057

I think you might have misread. I never mentioned my family lives in Hungary. They live in Sweden and Norway but were born in Hungary many years ago. The STUPID communists stole my families land.... this is when they escaped to Scandinavia. My families land and buildings are worth a ton of money today. If it weren't for the communists, this happened before I was born of course... my life would be very different now. I could have retired many years ago... living life in peace and helping animals etc. Oh well.

I have no family members nor anyone I personally know who lives in Hungary. My mother might be moving back to Hungary next year though.

I fought for so many years to try to get back stolen land the communists stole... but seems it was too difficult!

Humans are cancer of the earth.

    I think for the sake of your senity ( especially if you speak hungarian) find an accountant! They work for pennies. My accountant did my taxes, my husband’s taxes for a year when we sold a home and bought another one and only charged me 20.000 forint.  I could’ve never figured out what to pay in taxes in a million years. Taxing is extremely confusing in Hungary. So you are better off with a professional’s advice rather than  finding the wrong answer which could cost you either more $ or at least more headaches to straighten out.
good luck!
Livia
   

    -@Livia Kretsch

Thanks for advice. It's also "lovely" how US has citizenship based taxation... to add even more hassle and complexity.

Thanks for advice. It's also "lovely" how US has citizenship based taxation... to add even more hassle and complexity.
   

    -@juliet1980

Once you have your HU citizenship, it's possible to renounce US citizenship but it's going to cost you.   But then you can forget all that to some extent. 

Of course, the situation will become worse for US citizens or those receiving income from the USA and living in Hungary from Jan 1st, 2024 when the DTT (Double Tax Treaty) ends.

@fluffy2560

But social security is already taxed by US. It cant be taxed twice.  Pension might be different only.

    @fluffy2560But social security is already taxed by US. It cant be taxed twice.  Pension might be different only.        -@angelarobbins

I don't think it makes any difference in the soon to be case of no DTT.

It can be taxed twice if it's exported to a country that the USA does not have a DTT with (aka Hungary in 2024).  It will be taxed via Withholding in the USA when it's credited overseas (that's typical), and taxed in HU on arrival or declaration by the taxpayer. 

In practice, from what I read, without a DTT in place,  they'll give (in HU), 90% credit of taxes paid in the USA but that still leaves the 10% to pay locally.   

I'm not an expert in what is going with the USA and HU and the DTT so case of your own investigations may prove otherwise.

        @juliet1980 You mention parents and the rest of the family in Hungary, they should be able to give you much, much info and also help?This forum is very useful and a lot of info, but just talking with your family is easy?You are in a good situation        -@cdw057I think you might have misread. I never mentioned my family lives in Hungary. They live in Sweden and Norway but were born in Hungary many years ago. The STUPID communists stole my families land.... this is when they escaped to Scandinavia. My families land and buildings are worth a ton of money today. If it weren't for the communists, this happened before I was born of course... my life would be very different now. I could have retired many years ago... living life in peace and helping animals etc. Oh well.I have no family members nor anyone I personally know who lives in Hungary. My mother might be moving back to Hungary next year though. I fought for so many years to try to get back stolen land the communists stole... but seems it was too difficult! Humans are cancer of the earth.        -@juliet1980

Humans aren't a cancer but their way of thinking is.

Greed is the root of it all.

My husband's family at one time were very close to the Kings of Hungary.

One was even a Viceroy in the middle ages.

Another was the personal physicaian to one of the kIngs.

His father grew up with servants and in a large house. Had his own car in the 1930's as a young man and spent all his days in Gentelmans clubs sipping brandy and playing cards or reading the papers.

They still keep it rather a secret about someone having the old dog tags. A sealed /stamped document made out of fine dog skin that was prove of having royal connections or of being Knighted. To this day it's not spoken of. I think I know who has it but they aren't showing anyone.

My son would love to view it but not going to happen.

During the commie years they had to turn a photo backwards on the wall and put up another picture over it of my hsubands grandfather. He had been a high ranking police officer in Budapest.All those from the old regime lost their jobs if not their lives.

My husband however was never told the extent of what they lost because it was too dangerous to have children knowing such things. Instead my husband grew up in one room with 5 people living in it.

Life isn't far and no one can go back in time.

My mom's side was Mohawk. I'd love to claim part of Manhatten as my own but alas.

I think many peole from former communist countries have lost allot, some even thier lives.

We have an old friend who's father was actually taking away in 1956 and hung by his neck. All over some lies a jealous person spread about him.

After 1989 his widow tried to sue Hungary but it came to nothing.

Yes, life isn't fair to anyone.

            I got rid of my car earlier this year. I sold it and I ride my bicycle everywhere. Car insurance was almost $200/month. Crazy RIP OFF. I had enough. So bye bye car.I can't imagine in Hungary it is anywhere near that expensive?If I could, I much rather ride a horse. I love horses. In Hungary country side I might be able to just that LOL        -@juliet1980You can have basic car insurance for about 70K HUF a year and Casco (all risk) for 130K HUF depending on the vehicle (like mid-size) but you have to shop around.  It's cheaper than the USA it seems.If you live in the hills, you are not going to be able to bring materials to a site on your bicycle.Hungarians are very keen on their horses but it's a bit elitist.  There are lots of stables you can connect up with.  Some richer people have their own stables.        -@fluffy2560


Holy smokes... 130K HUF? That appears to be $368.93 in US dollars ... that is extremely expensive!! I would have a used SUV or truck. Not a new car. So hopefully car insurance won't be too bad.
   

    -@juliet1980

Usually those insuarnce coverages are for a few months to 6 months time. Ours is so low I don't even think about it. Less then a buck a day I know that much.

We drive an old car and have min. coverage.

Most people around where we drive seem to all have nice newer cars, not sure if everyone is making payments or what's with that.

We are the ,"rich" Americans driving around in a 30 year old car! Actually we only use it to go shopping with. Don't need one inside the city.

Usually those insuarnce coverages are for a few months to 6 months time. Ours is so low I don't even think about it. Less then a buck a day I know that much.
We drive an old car and have min. coverage.
Most people around where we drive seem to all have nice newer cars, not sure if everyone is making payments or what's with that.
We are the ,"rich" Americans driving around in a 30 year old car! Actually we only use it to go shopping with. Don't need one inside the city.
   

    -@Marilyn Tassy

You might be right. I didn't actually ask Mrs F how long it was for.   Could be for 6 months.

People with new cars probably have them on lease through companies they run. It's much cheaper to do that than own it outright. 

I have an old car too, it's 27 years old.  No-one is going to steal it as they'd need 27 years of experience maintaining it and it's not worth much now.  I do all my own car maintenance on that one, mainly because no-one else will touch it.  I tried to get mechanics to fix it and they all said no.  I use that car to take the dog to the forest and sometimes for "industrial" things like moving big heavy stuff where I need plenty of oomph. If I can get it to 30 years, it can be an OT car (Old Timer).   Then it might creep up in value again.

    Thanks for advice. It's also "lovely" how US has citizenship based taxation... to add even more hassle and complexity.         -@juliet1980

Once you have your HU citizenship, it's possible to renounce US citizenship but it's going to cost you.   But then you can forget all that to some extent. 

Of course, the situation will become worse for US citizens or those receiving income from the USA and living in Hungary from Jan 1st, 2024 when the DTT (Double Tax Treaty) ends.
   

    -@fluffy2560

Thanks yes I read about that... it's crazy!! So this means, the income you earn up to $116k (I think the amount is $116k) then that $116k will NOT be taxed in the US at all. Only if you earn more than the $116k will the US start to tax expat's income... but now because that doubale taxation treaty is ending in 2024 this means the US will tax me and Hungary will tax on ALL incomes even if it is under $116k?

That is ABSURD. I do not comply with that noway!!!! Does this also apply to Portugal I wonder?

    @fluffy2560
But social security is already taxed by US. It cant be taxed twice.  Pension might be different only.
   

    -@angelarobbins

Many states in the US do not tax social security income at all. 

My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?

@juliet1980 Please be careful in Portugal with annual property taxes.

     -@angelarobbinsMany states in the US do not tax social security income at all.  My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?        -@juliet1980

Yes, quite possibly taxed because the DTT will expire. 

As far as I know, there's a tax credit of 90% of tax paid in the USA and 15% will be due in HU.   Without the DTT, if you're a dual national and stay more than half the year, then you're a tax resident in HU regardless of US nationality and what is paid in tax there.

USD 1300 is quite good if it doesn't have to cover rent.  My MIL gets much less than that and she survives reasonably OK financially but she does have some help from Mrs Fluffy and my BIL. She owns her own house.  And of course, doesn't pay for medical treatment.

But in any case, to get a real answer you need to ask proper experts.  Folk in these forums are not experts but expats. We tend to speculate too much.

@fluffy2560 Rent can be nasty for the rest USD 1300 is fine (if living modest)