Electric cars (EV) Pros and Cons?

Bob. The sky is falling.

Ben also tells me that the comp insurance on an Ionic 5 is around 120/130K per year. No thanks. kind of defeats the argument at least until EV manufacturers can get the costs comparable internal combustion vehicles. We will stay with our now 4 Y/O SUV, comp insurance 17K per year and spend 30/40K per year on fuel and these days with regulated emissions on newer cars, catalytic convertors etc. I know we are not belching like a jeepney.

Cheers, Steve.

Ford Pinto where the gas tanks exploded very easily resulting in similar fires.
    -@danfinn

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/19 … o-madness/

What nasty little fs Ford employed.

I bought an electric motorcycle 3 years ago from Quezon City...then shipped to my home in Cebu.....it was somewhat customized so that it was powerful enough for all the hills and mountains here in the province. It has a 2000 watt electric motor with 6 batteries. Its quite heavy, but very strong and fast when needed. Last year I upgraded the lead-acid batteries to gel-type batteries.......lithium will be the next upgrade. The range is approx. 200-250 kms. The electric motor and batteries make it quite heavy, but a very comfortable ride. Currently, since my legs are getting weaker, I will probably put it up for sale. In my opinion, I have been quite satisfied with this electric motorcycle. I also have 2 electric scooters....a bigger one for me, and a smaller scooter for my daughter.

these days with regulated emissions on newer cars, catalytic convertors etc. I know we are not belching like a jeepney.

Cheers, Steve.
   

    -@bigpearl

Funny thing in Pennsylvania since we drive less than 5,000 miles a year, we are not subject to the emissions test when our Volvo is inspected.

Iwas mildly involved with the EV industry (Very much on the sidelines as it was just a little research for a company).

That small interaction gave me a real insight into EV tech and how quickly it's moving. I suggested it will be a very short time, a few years at most, before EVs are far more likely to be of practical use.

https://www.teslarati.com/catl-shenxing … 024-award/

There we go - Another step ahead

Nt much longer than filling the tank, and a reasonable range on that charge. The big problem is cost over ICE powered vehicles, but I believe that will fall in time. The obstacle to that drop is the price of Lithium, so falling prices are unlikely to happen soon ... until you look at the new battery tech in India.

so how much $$$ for new batteries? where will the old ones be buried? Where will the charging stations end up? From what i've heard and read you cannot put out the lithium battery fires (according to USA firemen) there is no chemical to put it out; have to let it burn.

I don't think filipinos will be swapping gas tricycles for battery powered very soon............not sure, just my $0.02.

In my town, Cauayan, more gas powered motorcycles being delivered weekly. It has the most gas powered motorcycles in the Philippines. Im guessing there may be some areas within Manila that try EVs, but doubt they will catch on in the rest of Phil and become the norm. They will probably be more appropriate for the city environment,, but i wouldn't want to be stuck in traffic with one.

Many USA car manufacturers are dialing back their EV manufacturing because of lack of sales for all the above reasons, plus more.

    Iwas mildly involved with the EV industry (Very much on the sidelines as it was just a little research for a company).
That small interaction gave me a real insight into EV tech and how quickly it's moving. I suggested it will be a very short time, a few years at most, before EVs are far more likely to be of practical use.

https://www.teslarati.com/catl-shenxing … 024-award/

There we go - Another step ahead

Nt much longer than filling the tank, and a reasonable range on that charge. The big problem is cost over ICE powered vehicles, but I believe that will fall in time. The obstacle to that drop is the price of Lithium, so falling prices are unlikely to happen soon ... until you look at the new battery tech in India.

EVs are a solution, that doesn't work that well, to a problem, that doesn't exist.

@Gregorio2020

Hello Gregorio.

Good morning. I'm living in Baguio on a hill. I bought a CdRking 2000W ebike That is NOT able t climb to my house (15° slope)

What is the brand of your motorcycle?

Regards Rudy.

Good morning to ALL.

I bought a BYD Dolphin in Manila.  I'm living in Baguio on a hill (15° slope). I was afraid it might not been able to climb to my house. Walang problemas!

I'm REALY delighted! It cost me 10X less than my Honda Jazz, around 1 Php/Km.  I'm charging at home at 9.2 Php/KWh. No clutch, no gearbox, no oil change. regenerative braking a lot of cameras and alarms.

    so how much $$$ for new batteries? where will the old ones be buried?
   
    -@stuleer

Cost is still too great. New battery tech will solve that in time <Crosses fingers>

The latter depends on how stupid individual governments are, and how crap capitalism is in their countries.

Lithium and most of the other things that go into batteries are very valuable strategic materials.

See the second paragraph.

EVs are a solution, that doesn't work that well, to a problem, that doesn't exist.

    -@danfinn

• Are you saying city pollution doesn't exist?
• Are you saying we don't need to clean up our planet?
• Are you saying climate change is a lie?

Hydrogen?

I won't buy an EV now as the hype and cost is too high, spending PH 30/40K per year on fossil fuels makes more sense given the limited klicks we do.

Didn't mind the cost of solar and being off grid and now saving P15K per month and will grow, batteries now are fully charged by 12 to 2 PM.

Replacement batteries I hope around 10 years life but only time will tell. As for disposal of old Lithium ion batteries they can easily be recycled the same as phone batteries and the likes. Don't throw them in the dump.

Cheers, Steve.

bigpearl said. . . .As for disposal of old Lithium ion batteries they can easily be recycled the same as phone batteries and the likes. Don't throw them in the dump.

*******************************

Disposal of trash from first world counties end up in third world counties.

Are you saying city pollution doesn't exist?

Pollution had existed since well before the invention of the gasoline engine. It has many sources, natural  (ex. Pinatubo) and man-made (ex power plants, fossil fuel engines). Eliminating all fossil fuel engines simply transfers the pollution source from mobile automobiles to stationary power plants.

It is amazing to me how people like Frederick actually believe that EVs are pollution free. I do not expect such people to be like degreed engineers but at least they should be aware that all energy is polluting.

Are you saying we don't need to clean up our planet?

That is basically an emotional statement (not an actual "question" that expects an answer) and I might suggest you treat the subject at hand with more objectivity and avoid rhetoric in your questions and assertions.

Are you saying climate change is a lie?

What I am saying very clear. No need to read into it. I would never say that climate is static because in fact it is and always had been changing since the Earth was formed. I don't believe that anthropogenic sources of  current "climate change" are significant or whether they exist at all.

-@Fred

    bigpearl said. . . .As for disposal of old Lithium ion batteries they can easily be recycled the same as phone batteries and the likes. Don't throw them in the dump.
*******************************
Disposal of trash from first world counties end up in third world counties.
   

    -@Enzyte Bob

With Lithium Ion, they want it. It's worth a fortune.

However, your fact is one off - Much of it goes to China

It is amazing to me how people like Frederick actually believe that EVs are pollution free.
    -@danfinn

No, I don't.

You made that up.

What I am saying very clear. No need to read into it. I would never say that climate is static because in fact it is and always had been changing since the Earth was formed. I don't believe that anthropogenic sources of  current "climate change" are significant or whether they exist at all.
-@Fred
   

    -@danfinn

Ah, an answer without an answer. I see this in people with an unwinnable point.

Yes, climate change is forever, but made-made climate change is a different story.

EVs aren't a cure, but they will help with local pollution and, if fusion finally happens, solve much of the issue.

    It is amazing to me how people like Frederick actually believe that EVs are pollution free.     -@danfinnNo, I don't.You made that up.        -@Fred

So sorry. Then you admit EVs also cause pollution. We are on the same page. So the only question I have is, why do you relate my opposition to EVs in terms of being free of pollution?

Reference your comment above:

Are you saying city pollution doesn't exist?

Are you saying we don't need to clean up our planet?

In your words: "You are just making this up".

If every vehicle in the USA was a EV from day one, mother nature will do what she wants regardless. It's the wrong solution looking for the correct problem.

We were taught petroleum & natural gas started out as dead organic material accumulating on land & sea. As millions of years pass, with more organic material piling on top, under heat and pressure petroleum & natural gas formed.

That's a lot of organic material, there must have been a lot of greenhouse gases present to create all that organic material.

I see we are in deflection mode.

OMO but the manufacturing of EV's or ICE vehicles creates pollution in many ways as does a vacuum cleaner or a lounge suite. Production makes pollution at all levels. Disposal of most products the same.

The production of the components for a stand alone power system created pollution but now nada and in 3 months my electricity bill has been 23 pesos/7 pesos per month and our generation here is reducing our Co2 emissions by almost 1 ton per month or the equivalent of planting 200 trees per month. No power bills and currently saving P15K per month.

Plugging an EV into the grid is a waste of space especially here as most power grids are coal or diesel fired and defeat the purpose.

Plugging into your own source seems more efficient as well as profitable but as said until the price of EV's drop considerably the figures don't add up.

Perhaps we should talk about cows and methane which is far worse.

Cheers, Steve. 

Perhaps we should talk about cows and methane which is far worse.


Cheers, Steve. 
   

    -@bigpear

           So glad I stopped eating meat and dairy products, my contribution to my health and the envirnment.  Eat a lot of beans, so I still cut plenty of farts, but it is my understanding I am not as deadly as a cow.

cows don't inhabit the inside of a house, people farting do. if one worries about farting cows maybe a brontosaurus was a little worse, haha.

In china they take those cow farts, pump them into a big rubber bag and run buses with them........so hurrah for cow farts.

Well mugteck I would eat beef here if I could find a decent cut, the mince steak we get is perfect but nothing else. Seafood, chicken and pork now and then give me plenty of wind which is methane but not much most mornings, TMI I know, soz.

For now we will keep our diet and keep putting fuel in the car, save lots of pesos. If ever they get their sh1t together then I might reconsider,,,,, governments included with ridiculous taxes.

Chicken breast stir fry tonight, less methane.

Cheers, Steve.

    cows don't inhabit the inside of a house, people farting do. if one worries about farting cows maybe a brontosaurus was a little worse, haha.
In china they take those cow farts, pump them into a big rubber bag and run buses with them........so hurrah for cow farts.
   

    -@stuleer

Get real, what they run around the paddock or feed lot and stick a rubber hose up their derriere?

There are plenty of companies out there now making food for feed lots and pasture improvements to reduce methane output from our bovine friends.

I the mean time we are stand alone and still looking for a decent steak.

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl

Hi Seve,

I would like to contact you privately, but I can't figure out how to make you a contact...

George

Hi George.

Click on my profile then send a private Msg.

Cheers, Steve.

@bigpearl--did you get my message: I can't figure out how to contact you.

No PM George, click on my pick on the left then select "send a msg"

I will send you a test.

Cheers, Steve.

Big Pearl, glad you don't like beef..........all the more for me, haha.

Why don't you quit picking on cows, there are worse polluting things out there.

    Big Pearl, glad you don't like beef..........all the more for me, haha.
Why don't you quit picking on cows, there are worse polluting things out there.
   

    -@stuleer

I love my beef but extremely difficult to buy good quality here in PH. and don't worry I've tried for many years, mostly tough crap, perhaps others have found a decent butcher but not us.

As for methane it is 28 times more powerful than Co2 over a 100 year period but 80 times more powerful over a 20 year period.

I think it's fantastic that many commercial piggeries are now collecting waste and using the methane for their own and others power requirements but a lot more trouble to achieve the same with our bovine friends.

We, I think have done our bit by going off grid and the small amount of travel we do and Co2 created doesn't warrant spending 3 or 4M on an EV given our current ICE SUV is 4 1/2 years old and travelled 21,000 kilometers, still new.

Anyway OMO.

Cheers, Steve

I'm looking forward to driving my Fartmobile

Claiming saving the environment by going off grid should really say "saving money" by going off grid.

@bigpearl

We installed a bio-gas system for our little 4-6 sow, 20-30 fatteners piggery a couple years ago. We use the bio-gas in the dirty kitchen with a two burner stove. Made a huge difference in the outside smell of the piggery, keeping it to a minimum. Even with the old "ditch" big ass hole it went into before, it was bad. Not so much so now. And our pigs get two baths a day which helps also. I don't know why feed lots can't do the same. Other than they're cheap Charlie's.

I've found some decent to great beef. But it's all imported and all expensive compared to local chicken and pork, at double or more US prices. One shouldn't be fooled by people advertising "USDA certified Angus" or some such words. Without giving an actual GRADING of Choice or Prime, it's pretty much gtd to be shit. I have connected with NUMEROUS sellers of "USDA Angus" 90% can not tell me what grade and provide now evidence of a actual grading. Basically they're selling USDA Select grade or worse. Which is the trash of quality.

On that note, I'm going to put a 6kg USDA Choice Beef Brisket into the smoker for about 14 hrs next week. Cost about $100usd. But easily 12+ meals so I'm happy. For Xmas eve day we're going to have about 25 people out on the beach. I'm throwing chickens on the smoker/grill Saturday for a Carribean Jerk chicken. A totally new flavor for these Filipinos.

    Claiming saving the environment by going off grid should really say "saving money" by going ependsoff grid.        -@Enzyte Bob

It doesn't always save money. That depends on how long it takes, not just to pay off but to maintain your solar investment. "Maintain" costs are important because you may need to spend 20k replacing batteries after 5 years... batteries often last a little longer than 5 years but the li-ion industry tells us to assume 5 years. Of course with grid tie that is not a problem. Extremely high electricity costs in the Philippines seems to make positive ROI possible after 20 years or so. As long as we live 20 more years we can truly enjoy cheap we electricity. In the USA, where electricity costs are hallf what they are here, I'm not sure positive ROI is possible but you do have the ability,at least, to borrow on a HELOC, go solar and signal environmental virtue.

Perspectives Bob but to me a double edged sword with many positives and few negatives.

Obviously saving pesos is key in anyone's life/budget but remember we invested 1.4M that will take 6/7 years ROI and then save. Nothing/no savings for that ROI period and in the mean time no 10/11K power bills and now we are up to 15K running extra A/C units and in 2 months when we crank up the rest of the house will average 20K per month. No blackouts. 24 odd LED lights running on the outside 12/13 hours a night on photovoltaic sensors. No power bills, tax free after initial investment as this gov loves their tax, what's the difference between sticking money in the share market or let it sit in the bank earning 5%. or investing in solar earning 10/15% perhaps more.

The up sides? No emissions with power consumption aside from the ICE car unless I fart and I will send that to you Bob for your new ride. Excess power to be used at our discretion/still managed but looking at 45 to 50Kw per day from the sun. As said no black outs/interruptions or having to crank up a generator with a scheduled 10/12 hour power outage or a typhoon that takes out the grid for 2 or 4 days.

What is very interesting is that for the last 5 years Luelco (power supplier) will only accept cash paid in their office,,, Ben paid a 3 peso bill and got the grill from the manager, told in another thread and yesterday paid them 18 pesos and the teller told him why don't you pay online? Ben told him he has been trying to do that for the last 5 years and was always told cash only sir in branch,,,,, the teller told him the pay online system is back up and running so simply pay there,,,,,, one has to wonder the skimming  going on in that branch?

Yes Bob long term investment but better for me is reducing my carbon footprint now after being a pig/abuse with a supposed endless supply of fossil fuels with little/no thought of the following generations that will try to pick up the pieces of our gluttony. Regardless of climate change or cyclic changes that is for a different topic.

Cheers, Steve.

@danfinn

Not up for another argument but look at what you say.

Our solar system in Oz was paid for in less than 2.5 years, grid tied and buy back from the supplier, after that we were saving 2.5 to 2.8 thousand bucks a year, Return % you can do the math being an engineer.

Here as said a 6/7 year return, 15% and yes I did the sums and better than my superannuation and a hell of a lot better than that money sitting in the bank earning 5% and income taxable. It's called investing wisely.

A laugh from me, you said "spend 20k (php?) replacing batteries after 5 years". Our batteries here are P 750K and factored into the ROI, guaranteed for 8,000 cycles or 10 years, sure they will degrade as will the solar panels warrantied for 25 years and the invertors warrantied for 10 years so even a small investment but carefully curated? For me it's a win. No power bills, no emissions and no bloody power interruptions, we all have choices and go where our research and heart dictates.

Cheers, Steve.

    Claiming saving the environment by going off grid should really say "saving money" by going off grid.
   

    -@Enzyte Bob

******************************************

The reference to this quote by me is the same as saying:

(1) Clean your plate because close to a billion people are starving worldwide.

(2) I went out with that freelancer because she looked lonely.

(3) I bought a new car to help the economy.

A sad way of looking at life Bob but OMO.

Some can't see the forest for the trees.

EV cars pros and cons?

Cheers, Steve.