Real Estate Prices in Brazil

        @Pablo888Not 100% sure, but I think he mentioned Brazilian-based searches...         -@Peter Itamaraca

Oh no.... I hope that it ain't so.... Or I will have Brazil based competition.....-@Pablo888

It was specifically for New Years Eve!

    @sprealestatebroker
I will not bore everyone by responding to each of your points, but let's say this: it is a little foolish to make statements based on assumptions when you have never visited a place, nor had any experience of doing business here.
Planning controls here are fierce, and much stricter than on the mainland - most of the island is a protected forest and, with few exceptions, you cannot build more than 2 floors.  So the afternoon sun always shines on the beaches, unlike most other cities in Brazil, and the breezes can be enjoyed in homes further away from the ocean.
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

Then you should have no issues on paying asking prices or the premium spread.

Limited supply under high demand = Higher asking prices.

Limited supply under high demand = Higher asking prices.
   

    -@sprealestatebroker

I totally agree with that,  if it occurs it becomes a seller's market, but not sure what is has to do with anything we are discussing here...!

@sfcastro,

Holding out at one price is a common strategy for big-ticket items here. Time is not valued as much as it is in more dynamic economies. Also, other factors may be at play. For one, the property may be anchoring or facilitating various other financial operations, such that it's not actually on the market, despite the listing.

    Limited supply under high demand = Higher asking prices.         -@sprealestatebroker

I totally agree with that,  if it occurs it becomes a seller's market, but not sure what is has to do with anything we are discussing here...!
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

I daresay , It  is  short of a seller's market within  the R$500 k to R$ 1 millon bracket for "urban properties"  as of now. More like the market is reaching a balance point.  The Banco Central dropped two points on the SELIC Rate. Plenty underwritten loans lately.   

Most of the underwritten loans are going through Caixa Economica Federal, as they do not need to borrow from the Banco Central to underwrite their loans. Most of their funding  comes from Payroll Deductions through the FGTS ( Fundo de Garantia por Tempo de Servico ). 

And Caixa has a decent glut of REO properties too. Only, you do not get to choose the cream of the crop there. Steep discounts on cash buys after the third round  on the block ( after sealed bids expired and final pricing is posted ).

It isn't quite a seller's market on the high end, just yet. Even with the Selic at 11%, upper middle class folk   who can't afford to pay cash outright, won't bite over the R$ 1 million  asking threshold.

That is what I've seen firsthand, thus far. And yet, there are price reductions to move the properties on the block, whether it is a builder or an individual seller. I've seen that too.

As for places in resort areas, small rural properties, beach side homes and apartments, that's discretionary spending when  and only there is plenty money around.  This market is not anywhere near hot.

Because environmental restrictions to build on your neck of woods ( Estuary Region, Marshlands, Coastline ), folks who show up to buy residential approved plots,  will be making cash purchases.  The asking will have a  large markup , and locals will haggle with cash on hand. 

There is actually no comps that you can throw at the seller in those situations. They won't budge until you show up with cash on hand. That does not take knowing your neck of the woods.  Seen around to similar places. 

@sfcastro

Nothing would force me to even consider living in hellholes such as Rio or SP... Well, perhaps just me...

Santa Catarina state, though, is a completely different story.

Did my due diligence and bought my place (couple of properties actually) here. Very happy indeed.

Are you in Brazil already? Do you have your permanent visa? You can not register RE without having a permanent residency...

You can use your RE purchase to apply for your permanent residency...perhaps some good info here -residencybrazil.com

Best wishes

@lifeinbrazil

I happen to agree with you about SP, but you certainly can buy, own and register real estate in Brazil without having a permanent visa...

Correct......

@Peter Itamaraca

According to my knowledge, you can buy, yes, but not register.

At least I was not able to register without this...

I used my real estate purchase to apply for permanent residency but was able to register it only after my permanent residency was approved...

Well, this was a long time ago...so any new info regarding this matter, please share, appreciate (links to relevant laws etc.)... because I would like to register one property which my wife bought...and she still does not have her permanent residency here.

Thanks again.

    @Peter Itamaraca
According to my knowledge, you can buy, yes, but not register.

At least I was not able to register without this...

I used my real estate purchase to apply for permanent residency but was able to register it only after my permanent residency was approved...

Well, this was a long time ago...so any new info regarding this matter, please share, appreciate (links to relevant laws etc.)... because I would like to register one property which my wife bought...and she still does not have her permanent residency here.

Thanks again.
   

    -@lifeinbrazil

It appears that you have been misled or misinformed. Brazilian law specifically allows for non-resident foreigners to own and register real estate in their name, with a few exceptions - like large agricultural parcels, near military bases or large tracts on coasts.

It has only relatively recently been allowed for real estate purchases to lead to a permanent visa (the so-called Golden Visa), is this what you have? If so, I guess you have not been in Brazil for many years, but arrived in the past 3-4 years?

If your wife legally bought a property in her name, with her CPF, she certainly can register it without a permanent visa...

You may want to locate a good English speaking attorney, experienced in real esate law and immigration in Brazil, because, as everyone on this forum will tell you - you have this wrong...and what else may be wrong?

@Peter Itamaraca

I have a permanent visa based on an "investment visa"...bought rural land long time ago and had  a business plan made for an investment.

Lawyers in Brazil...this is a different topic. I hope to find a good one in Florianopolis.

Thank you for your advice.

@lifeinbrazil

OK! I received the same visa 17 years ago.

So did you carry through with your business plan and develop your rural land, or do something else? Sounds interesting!

Actually I did develop but not according to the initial business plan.... They did not have any problem with that (well, I probably gave them a good enough explanation)  and extended my visa. Now we have few different (and relatively "crisis proof") business plans for Brazil...

I am not sure for how long  "business as usual" will last in this world (considering the geopolitical situation etc. which inevitably will affect life here as well.

    Actually I did develop but not according to the initial business plan.... They did not have any problem with that (well, I probably gave them a good enough explanation)  and extended my visa. Now we have few different (and relatively "crisis proof") business plans for Brazil...
I am not sure for how long  "business as usual" will last in this world (considering the geopolitical situation etc. which inevitably will affect life here as well.
   

    -@lifeinbrazil

Question: so you created a company in Brazil, invested in it, and then that company bought the land? Perfect for the investor visa... But you had problems registering the purchase in your name? I am a little confused about this as the company bought the land, not you... Is this where the problem with registering in your name arose?

I assume the Federal Police renewed your visa as you had a viable business and Brazilian employees, so it should be permanent now?

I only ask to make sure we give the correct and up to date information about permanent visas here...

Yes, I created a company and the  company bought the land. PF renewed my visa (made it permanent) despite the fact that the business was still not developed by that time. My company is in the process of registering the land now (at some point I was "asset rich but cash poor" and the company was "on hold" and no money for INCRA process etc..

I had bought another land as a private person and could not register it before I got my visa. It has been registered now ...

And we bought a third land which I would like to register in my wife's name...but cartorio said no, only after she will have a permanent visa.

@lifeinbrazil

Ah - INCRA! I believe I am right in saying that is all about land in the Amazon area near Brazil's borders? One of the restrictions for non-residents to own as it is a border, like the coasts (see my previous post).

Obviously land on the coasts is hugely more expensive that land in, for example, Rondonia, so you are able to get much more bang for your buck. If you have bought large tracts of agricultural or border land, this may be the reason why you were initially refused registration?

For your wife, it should be simple to apply for a Family Reunion visa for her....

@Peter Itamaraca

The land is in Santa Catarina...which I consider the best state in Brazil, hands down. In all aspects.

Land does cost more in my region...but it is "as good as it can get".

INCRA is needed for foreigners for any rural land registration if it does exceed 30 hectares or for a second land purchase, regardless of the size. Or if you buy for a company.

Cartorio just said that permanent residency is a must to register ANY land here. She may have been mistaken, I did not control....she was very resolute about it.

Appreciate any information how to register it without permanent residency...

@lifeinbrazil

I think you have done remarkably well to have had your Investor Visa renewed without any of the normal requirements for employing Brazilians, actually operating the business, etc. I have never known this - usually the Policia Federal make a surprise visit to your business premises shortly before renewal, and check everything before agreeing to renew. So you have a 100% win there!

However you appear to be "paying for it" with the local notary's refusal to register a real estate purchase in a non-resident's name. (I assume it is not a large tract of land again, as you said she will not register anything.) If it is a house or apartment, for example, there should be no problem at all with getting the escritura, without a permanent visa.

I suggest talking to a lawyer, because last time I looked Santa Catarina is a fully paid up member of the Republic of Brasil, and subject to her laws. Unless, of course, everything does not taste like honey or small of roses in Santa Catarina...

    @sprealestatebroker
Purely out of interest, my barber told me this morning that, according to Google, the most searched place to visit over New Year out of the whole of the Northeast of Brazil was... Ilha de Itamaracá.
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

I do not know the place myself, nor I do care.  It's not my trading area, nor my neck of the woods.

Tourist destinations are funny on real estate pricing.  The economy is doing well, visitor's feel overconfident, they buy on a whim.  It is not a rational buy, it's an emotional buy.

Never mind comps on  those places.  And this particular place, because it sits on an estuary in a confluence of two rivers, , and therefore, as a coastal community ity has marshlands, then my educated guess says , land supply is limited to where it can be allowed to  build.  Again, assuming they enforce environmental codes.

So, there is no such a thing as overpaying for in such places.  It is what the sale ( not market ) can bear. There  is no reasonable expectation one can pay.    And the more the place is hyped, the fierce is the search for land. 

And for those on internet searches, they are worthless.    On large metro markets, you have portals, yet these portals only show listing prices. Nowhere you will find closing prices, as if you did an MLS query upon inquirying a real estate broker.

Expect, on consolidated urban markets, a haggling discount of 5%, at best 10%. I've gotten steeper discounts, but I knew the seller circumstances and motivations.

As for what can and can't be built in any given place,, Municipalities are the most suspect  to enforce zoning and environmental restrictions. Often a higher authority, such as an State or Federal Agency, is needed.  Yesterday marshland, today a landfill primed for Real Estate Development.

That's my 5 cents, and it is final.

    @Peter Itamaraca
According to my knowledge, you can buy, yes, but not register.

At least I was not able to register without this...

I used my real estate purchase to apply for permanent residency but was able to register it only after my permanent residency was approved...

Well, this was a long time ago...so any new info regarding this matter, please share, appreciate (links to relevant laws etc.)... because I would like to register one property which my wife bought...and she still does not have her permanent residency here.

Thanks again.

Buying  without deeding is called "Contrato de Gaveta". Not enforceable in the courts. 

Acquirers need to be able to verify a track history of quitclaim deeds, liens, the legality of the underlying land, landmark decrees. 

You don''t have those, you do not own  squat. You've been duped. The seller might be legit, so as the land, but if the seller can 't transfer, and you are making payments, in the event of the seller's passing, you can't lay claim to the land. 

When you buy land, you need to see a document that traces the endpoints laid out in  specific land surveyor language.  The paperwork has to be notarized by the local registry of Title and Deeds from the County ( Comarca ). 

In the case of farm land, it also needs to be certified by the INCRA, and coastal land it needs to be cleared by the Brazilian Navy ( Laudemio da Marinha ), both in a documented certificate. 

-@lifeinbrazil

Ilha de Itamaracá.

I do not know the place myself, nor I do care.  It's not my trading area, nor my neck of the woods.

And this particular place, because it sits on an estuary in a confluence of two rivers, , and therefore, as a coastal community it has marshlands, then my educated guess says , land supply is limited to where it can be allowed to  build.  Again, assuming they enforce environmental codes.   

    -@sprealestatebroker

May I make a suggestion? I have admitted knowing nothing about the real estate market in Sao Paulo, nor do I want to. So maybe you could just stick to the same principle and comment from what you know, not what you are guessing.

The island of Itamaracá (and we thank you for the publicity, btw) does not sit on a confluence of 2 rivers... It is an island in the Atlantic ocean. surrounded by tidal sea water... But lets agree you know a lot more about SP then me, and I know a lot more about my local market than you...ok?

Buying  without deeding is called "Contrato de Gaveta". Not enforceable in the courts. 

-@sprealestatebroker

That comment does surprise me, especially if it comes from a CRECI real estate broker who should know better. Sale and purchase contracts, properly written and signed, are very much enforceable in court, even without the escritura. So your advice to this poster is misleading.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt... Homework for you, Sir, research Adjudicação.

. 


When you buy land, you need to see a document that traces the endpoints laid out in  specific land surveyor language.  The paperwork has to be notarized by the local registry of Title and Deeds from the County ( Comarca ). 
   
    -@sprealestatebroker

County? New one for me in Brazil, but maybe this exists in Sao Paulo?

Elsewhere the Registry of Title and Deeds is called the Cartório, or Tabelião e Oficial do Registro de Imóveis. Every city must have one by law.

Buying  without deeding is called "Contrato de Gaveta". Not enforceable in the courts.  Acquirers need to be able to verify a track history of quitclaim deeds, liens, the legality of the underlying land, landmark decrees.  You don''t have those, you do not own  squat. You've been duped. The seller might be legit, so as the land, but if the seller can 't transfer, and you are making payments, in the event of the seller's passing, you can't lay claim to the land.  When you buy land, you need to see a document that traces the endpoints laid out in  specific land surveyor language.  The paperwork has to be notarized by the local registry of Title and Deeds from the County ( Comarca ).          -@sprealestatebroker

We sorta looked at living in Cabo Frio or north a bit up the coast towards the Unamar area. Lots of "undivided interest" houses for sale. Seems the price delta is R$150,000 more for a correctly documented property title in that part along the coast.

       
In the case of ..... coastal land it needs to be cleared by the Brazilian Navy ( Laudemio da Marinha ), both in a documented certificate. 

    -@sprealestatebroker

Sorry again, but that is not correct.

Marinha is the Brazil Navy, but coastal purchases (indeed any lands within a certain distance of any tidal waters, including rivers),  must be cleared through the SPU or Secretaria de Patrimônio da União, not the Navy.

And Laudêmio is not connected to the Brazil Navy, but a tax of 5% applied to any qualifying property based on the land value of that property WHEN IT IS SOLD OR BOUGHT - if that property is located within 33m of the 1831 high tide mark - or some such historical law. Also it is possible that "Foro" can apply, which is a lot cheaper...

I am sorry to appear to be pedantic, but I do think we should ensure that we offer the correct advice - not just tell someone that the land they have was bought illegally potentially, or cannot be transferred to their name...

I do think that @sprealestatebroker has good intentions, but sometimes is a little out of his depth? Again my advice to him would be to stick to the market he knows - Sao Paulo...