Seeking advice about the Bulgarian housing market

@ Following with interest ...

@GoingDutch The last few years have seen both inflation (influencing construction / renovation), and property prices going up. Nothing can be done about that now.

The real estate agents are useless, at best.

The rest of it isn't all true though. Having lived in Plovdiv for quite a while, I always had access to enough green space. And there were apartments of various sizes available.

@GoingDutch

I've lived in Bulgaria for 20 years now and I'd like to address your comments:

"Apartments are too cramped for families. Most apartments are studios or 1 bedrooms. Two bedroom apartments are rare and new constructions are almost always studios or 1 bedroom at most. These are too small for us."

Apartments here are sized for the market, ie they're built with a knowledge of what size mortgage the average Bulgarian family can obtain and afford. Likewise, many apartments are bought as "buy to let", and studios or one-bedroom units are what an average Bulgarian family can afford to rent.  There certainly are two-bedroom apartments available but they're not cheap - but then no property in the cities is as cheap as it was a few years ago.  Yes, many apartments are "too cramped" but beggars can't be choosers.

"Square meters of apartments are greatly exaggerated. Today we saw a brochure of a builder where a 70m2 apartment turned out to be 40m2 in reality on the floor plan. This happens in all other listings as well. Builders/real estate agents can get angry when confronted with this."

The area quoted for an apartment usually includes any balconies and (basement) storage areas; there is also a figure for "ideal parts", ie the nominal area of the communal parts of the building shared among the owners.  An additional 30m2 on a 40m2 apartment does seem rather excessive, unless it's a building with very spacious common areas or there's been some misunderstanding.  When you buy a property the area you purchase is set out in total and then broken down into its constituent parts, so the Notary Act will have a full specification of exactly what you're getting.

"Old houses in villages are in very poor condition and it is actually quite shocking to see in what poverty and poor conditions (elderly) Bulgarians lived."

Bulgarian pensions are very low and Bulgaria is the poorest country in the EU: people live according to their means, and it's the low cost of of living that attracts many foreigners here.  Building work is expensive and DIY gets harder as you get older.  Luckily, the older generation is a lot tougher than today's younger people and they're used to a poorer standard of living.

"Old houses in villages are greatly overpriced since usually the only solution is demolition because of holes in the roof, the roof collapsing, cracks in the walls, and other structural problems. We wonder what some sellers are thinking when pricing ruins, offering 90% under asking price for the land and demolition costs will often not result in pleasant discussions."

Yes, anyone would be offended at being offered 10% of their asking price - it should be obvious that it won't be well received  That kind of difference isn't going to be bridged and there's no point in making such an offer.  It happens a lot in other countries too - they're not being unrealistic because sooner or later the market catches up and someone WILL pay their exorbitant asking price; it may take years but they know it will happen.

"The old houses and plots they are on are not maintained and often there is trash, rubble, old machinery or other things lying around. The whole concept of taking care of your belongings and keeping your house and yard clean hardly seems to exist in Bulgaria."

When you're old and trying to survive on 300 leva a month, you're not going to waste effort or money on maintenance.  When you die, your heirs want to get their hands on some money as soon as they can; there's usually several of them, and they can't agree about spending any of the small amount they stand to get on "unnecessary" expenditure like renovation/tarting-up.

"Building quality of new buildings is not great either. We have visited new buildings as potential buyers and the build quality is visibly poor and in a few years there is visible decay like the facade coming off. Some buildings are already in decline during construction."

That's true - buildings are constructed to a price; if you look at "cheap" property you have to expect cheap construction; there are good quality apartments and houses for sale but they are more expensive to build and carry a price tag that puts them out of reach for many people.

"Builders of single family homes do not seem to be interested in having customers, new construction is overpriced, and the houses are often cheap and low quality. (Customer service in Bulgaria deserves a topic of its own)."

Again, "overpriced" is a matter of opinion: in a country where valuation surveys don't exist, you have to know what you want and how much you're willing/able to pay for it.  The market dictates prices and right now it's very buoyant, so it's a seller's market; in my view, there's too much construction going on and there's going to be another slump in the market sooner or later.  Everyone and his dog is an "investor" at the moment and they're cutting corners everywhere; anyone with any sense will only buy a property that's a few years old so any faults will already be showing. However, if someone needs a home NOW then they'll buy or rent regardless of the cost - park benches are notoriously uncomfortable.

"Rental market is expensive (for Bulgarian salaries) and furniture in rental apartments is in fair condition at best but mostly in a poor condition."

Yep!  But the ROI on rental properties is pitifully small and furniture isn't cheap here.  Also, many tenants are unfortunately very careless with the landlord's property; buying new furniture and regular redecoration/renovation means that a landlord ends up making a loss on his property letting.  There are up-market rental properties but you need a very good salary to afford one.

"Bulgarian cities suffer tremendously from air pollution caused by old diesel cars imported from western europe and fossil fuel burning like wood stoves. This disqualifies all larger cities and many smaller ones too for us."

All cities have suburbs, where the atmosphere is better than in the centre; this applies very much to the southern areas of Sofia, for example. There's plenty of smoke blowing round the villages too. Again, this is the poorest place in the EU, so people can't afford to buy a Tesla or to install heat pumps. If you want to live in BG, this is what it's really like!

"In cities cars streets are filled with (old) cars which take up all space and often are barely used anyway and there is a lack of green spaces and playgrounds."

Well spotted!  There are several large parks in Sofia - and a mountain on the doorstep with skiing/snow-boarding/hiking available, according to the season.

"Property prices are greatly overvalued at the moment, realistically half of current price levels or even much less would be more realistic."

If you had a property to sell, I guess that you'd be keen to offer it at below the market price? "Overvalued" is another way of saying "I can't afford it" - no-one's forcing people to buy overvalued property. "Realistic" is what the market will bear.

"Bulgarian builders and real estate agents do not understand demand and supply. For example, several times we have seen unsold properties on the market for a long time getting a price increase rather than a decrease. When inquiring about this, they act evasive or get angry."

Actually, your previous comment suggests that it's perhaps YOU who haven't quite got the hang of supply and demand: a seller sets his price and waits for a buyer; if one doesn't come he can either drop his price or keep waiting.  If he waits, prices will usually increase and he will increase his asking price to keep pace.  If he's being totally unrealistic then he'll either wait forever or eventually drop his price; because he's waited, the market price will now be higher than his initial price, so the "dropped price" will be higher than his original asking price.  How long he waits and how much he eventually sells for is of course dependent on supply and demand, but also on how long he can wait before he is forced by financial pressure to sell at whatever price he can get.

Obviously, buyers and sellers see the same market through different eyes but, as the old Bulgarian proverb has it, "There's a passenger for every train"....

JimJ has fully replied matching my opinion and would like to add that the "freedom  " you get here is something you will not get anywhere. Overpriced are the properties in Holland for instance, same house for 40 000 euro in Bulgaria will cost over 300 000 euro there? And yes, some people are poor, but at the end of the day they all have their own homes, they work and pay 10 % tax, while on the other hand I know taxes in Holland are over 50 %, so how's poverty determined realistically in that matter?

@jimj Thank you for your reply. You seem to confirm most of what we experience in Bulgaria.

@GoingDutchI've lived in Bulgaria for 20 years now and I'd like to address your comments:If you had a property to sell, I guess that you'd be keen to offer it at below the market price? "Overvalued" is another way of saying "I can't afford it" - no-one's forcing people to buy overvalued property. "Realistic" is what the market will bear.

We actually do have two inherited properties in Bulgaria to sell(where I don’t want to live). Whatever a Bulgarian (or other Eastern European or in the past British) buyer is willing to pay does not represent ‘real value’ to me. The quality of everything related to housing is so poor, the real value is actually next to nothing when considering overall build quality, size of what you get, customer service and experience, surroundings,  infrastructure, amenities, and especially air quality.

I also consider our properties to be worthless. I am looking at the housing market from a perspective of what we would buy, what represents value to us, and where we could happily live in and there just isn’t anything that is remotely acceptable.

Actually, your previous comment suggests that it's perhaps YOU who haven't quite got the hang of supply and demand: a seller sets his price and waits for a buyer; if one doesn't come he can either drop his price or keep waiting.  If he waits, prices will usually increase and he will increase his asking price to keep pace.  If he's being totally unrealistic then he'll either wait forever or eventually drop his price; because he's waited, the market price will now be higher than his initial price, so the "dropped price" will be higher than his original asking price.  How long he waits and how much he eventually sells for is of course dependent on supply and demand, but also on how long he can wait before he is forced by financial pressure to sell at whatever price he can get.

Bulgarians, in our opinion, actually don’t understand supply and demand, market value and customer service. This is a very encapsulated part of the EU with a different mindset.

We have seen more realistic housing markets in Italy and Spain where we also are looking at houses. Houses and apartments are much cheaper there despite salaries being much higher, build better(even in Italy), the climate is better there, surroundings are nicer and tidier, not everything is so run down like in Bulgaria, people take much better care of their houses and belongings there, air quality is much better, customer service is much better, people look much healthier, groceries are cheaper and much better, and the overall atmosphere is much better. So indeed, Bulgaria is way overpriced for what it offers and there is no understanding of quality and value.

Obviously, buyers and sellers see the same market through different eyes but, as the old Bulgarian proverb has it, "There's a passenger for every train"....   

We are both seller and buyer and that does not change our perspective on the Bulgarian housing market. What we see is the old houses(including ours) are actually not worth 1€. A buyer could offer something for the land but should be compensated by the seller for cleaning up his trash, rubble and tearing down the old house and transportation to the land fill.

Apartments(including hours) are worthless because of their build quality, tiny size, and especially the very poor air quality in the Bulgarian big cities with streets filled with old cars.

New single family homes are not interesting because of their poor build quality, high price, and lack of serious customer service at building companies.

We just wonder how other expats are dealing with this.

@GoingDutch I can only give you my experiences of Varna and, to a degree, Veliko Tarnovo.

I and my Bulgarian wife, bought two apartments in Varna.  Whilst the majority of apartments are studio, one bedroom and two bedroom apartments, there are larger apartments available, albeit, scarce.  I was fortunate that my wife's cousin is a freelance estate agent and knows all of the agents in Varna and what tricks they get up to!

We wanted a maisonette (two or more floors apartment, to be clear).  We were able to look at seven apartments, all maisonettes, save one that was a huge singleton floor apartment.  The build quality of all properties was okay to good, but the conditions of each property varied significantly.  Two were in a state of needing extensive work and repair.

In Bulgaria, as you'll know, it's essential to view every property you're interested in, as estate agent information is often inaccurate. We looked at a brand new maisonette, after being told in the information that it was three bedrooms - it turned out to be two bedrooms.  When asked, the estate agent said "you can build another wall here and make another room"!  For that, they wanted €200,000!  Which brings me to pricing.  As has been said, pricing in Bulgaria is rarely consistent and YOU have to ascertain whether the property is worth buying.   €200,000 for a two bed maisonette is certainly not worth the money.  However we looked at maisonettes that were on offer for just €80,000, albeit small.

We ended up buying a beautiful three bed maisonette, in what my wife and I consider to be the best area to live in Varna, built by reputable builders, with a good quality construction, a small block of just six apartments and three offices. Built in 2008.  We have three good large bedrooms (built in wardrobes) two full size bathrooms, huge kitchen, dining, lounge area, storage room, utility room and a  17m² basement storage room. We have for balconies / terraces. The area is packed with local shops, businesses and schools.

Our second apartment is a studio apartment, bought to rent as an Airbnb.  Again, a we found a well constructed block, 2016. The apartment is a good size for a studio (an ex office, converted) has two balconies and is bright and airy.

We paid €148,000 for the maisonette in April 2022 and €55,000 for the studio in June 2022.  The current realistic valuations are €210,000 and €75,000 respectively.

As for Veliko Tarnovo, I looked at various villages and in the surrounding areas and found varying degrees of house build quality.

At that point (2018/2020, houses were cheap.

I rented a one bedroom apartment in the centre of Veliko Tarnovo for three months in August 2020, at a high price - 670 Leva per month, but it did include Internet.

@GoingDutch

Drop me a line about what you're looking to sell - who knows, we might agree on a price if any of the properties are the right kind and in the right place.....

@GoingDutch I read your post with interest . Being Maltese and raised in one of the smallest if not the smallest and overpopulated state in the EU I yearned for some open space with perhaps my own garden /field in a quiet village where I can recharge my worn out batteries . There was never a chance my wish could come true in Malta as a 1 bedroom flat around 50sq .m would set you back in the region of 150K and thats in a built up , overcrowded  and noisy , like everywhere else part of Malta . an approximately 500sq.m recreational field , whats left of fields on the island , one is expected to stump up in excess of 150K and thats without any amenities . When I compare all this with my heavenly property in a village half an hr. away from VT with 2000sq m of land , massive barn , fresh water well and a 2 storey house to boot I thank God that I purchased this property at a fraction of the price I would expect to pay for a 1 bed condo in my country . You forgot to mention the price of utilities . I am much much better off paying utilities in BG than in Malta . 100 m away I have the Yantra river surrounded by hectares upon hectares of fields and serenity , fresh air . The neighbours around me are the salt of the earth , friendly and helpful and I have not had so many house parties in Malta as I have had in BG . So , in short give me BG anytime .

@GoingDutch

I suspect it's hard to please all of the people, all of the time, so there will always be folks that see the negatives rather than the positives. Or, perhaps it's simply that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Moreover, if you've been house-hunting for 4 years, while prices (nearly) doubled then I suspect that is more likely to give you a jaundiced view of the situation. Nevertheless, it's an interesting and provocative set of comments that seems likely to provoke plenty of discussion! :-) @Jimj already gave a very comprehensive reply, but I'll have a stab too.

Apartments are too cramped for families.

Well, of course, a family of 4 will need a larger apartment, and probably a 3 bedroom. Those will be expensive. Any large city (Sofia, Varna, Burgas, Plovdiv) you will be way over 1,000 euros per m2, and realistically you need something around 120 - 150 m2 maybe 3 bed/2 bath. There are a few around, but most are smaller, as you say. To buy new you might spend 200k, and as they're sold Bulgarian-standard you'll need another 60k to finish and furnish it. In Spain, a new apartment like this would be way more.

Square meters of apartments are greatly exaggerated.

Different countries/markets have different customs, you just have to be aware of it and make allowances. The published m2 includes balconies and common areas, so, yes, actual internal living space is substantially less. This is more pronounced with new construction. So, yes, the desirable apartment of 150m2 will actually be 210m2 in Bulgaria (30m2 of balcony, same of common space), all charged at 1,500 per m2 or whatever. It's a big chunk of change. Similarly, most countries sell finished apartments, but Bulgaria sells Bulgarian Standard unfinished. So you have to know you've got time and work to finish it, and another 300-400 euros/m2 of cost.

Old houses in villages are in very poor condition and it is actually quite shocking

Many are. Many are not. Bulgarian pensions are pitiful, so poverty is prevalent. Certainly they (pensioners) might struggle to buy food, let alone renovate their house. Our Balkan village is lovely, and almost every house has been renovated, and a bunch of fancy new builds have gone up.

Old houses in villages are greatly overpriced since usually the only solution is demolition

As per my comments on another thread, 95% of the houses in our village have been renovated rather than knocked down, and even when very neglected for years can still be salvaged.

The old houses and plots they are on are not maintained and often there is trash, rubble, old machinery or other things lying around.

Again, some are, some are not. Even in our very good village, there are a couple of houses that match your description. But most are very tidy and well-kept. My immediate neighbours keep their house and garden in impeccable condition, they put me to shame.

Building quality of new buildings is not great either.

I have not seen this. Modern Bulgarian construction seems on a par with modern European construction. There are cheaper buildings which are built to a stricter budget and without the fancy finishes of an upscale building, but still OK. When I look at our Bansko studio, I do feel that it's a bit cheap and cheerful compared to a studio in a French or American resort... but then I remind myself that it's a 20k apartment... and, for that, it's amazing. I did a little prefab in Cyprus last year on my land and that cost more than 20k!

We recently moved out of our initial Plovdiv purchase (meant to be temporary, but we were there over 5 years). It's a brand new 2 bedroom with 2 balconies on the top floor. We have views to Youth Hill and the Rodopes. The construction quality is excellent, and it's a very comfortable apartment. Absolutely nothing to complain about (other than the quality of finish by my painter and electrician).

Bulgarian cities suffer tremendously from air pollution

Yes, it's probably higher than elsewhere. But they're working on it, and it's better than it was. It's certainly not noticeable in our area of Plovdiv, and it's pretty comparable with our place in Elche. Of course, if I walk along Hristo Botev during rush hour then I can tell the difference... but I don't do that. :-)

Property prices are greatly overvalued at the moment

This is your opinion, and I'm not sure it's substantiated by evidence. You might be right, but I wouldn't bet on it. And it's a risky play to wait a few more years in the expectation of a 50% correction. Bulgaria continues to do well economically, with plenty of inward investment. Mortgage lending is increasing. Big events like Schengen and introduction of Euro are likely to increase rather than decrease prices.

I NEARLY moved to Bulgaria in 2007 when Bulgaria joined the EU (and still kick myself that I didn't). I still have my purchase contract for a fancy downtown penthouse apartment in Sofia. This is dated 2007 (when they joined the EU) at 600 euros / m2 (and includes two parking spaces). Instead, I bailed, and went off on some nutso round-the-world adventure where I lost all my money. Today, the price for an equivalent new build might be 2,000 per m2, and you'd pay 20k per parking space. 17 years of price rises is no guarantee of continued increases... but it's not a bad call, unless you foresee a catastrophic event like a Kozolduoy meltdown or a Russian invasion.

@GoingDutch

Well at least you have a couple of Inherited properties to sell

So that's a positive for you ...

@GoingDutch

Our experience is probably rather different to yours. We only came here a couple of years before you, but we quickly (within days) picked out properties to buy. Without even viewing (the listings had lots of photos and I used Google StreetView to see if the area was nice). It was quite scary buying sight unseen in a new country, but given what prices did since, I'm naturally gonna be a bit smug and think Bulgaria is wonderful. :-)

At the time, I'd spent a couple of years watching Ebay auctions and seeing renovated houses sell for 10 grand. So I was expecting everything to still be cheap as chips... but I'd already missed that particular boat. I can't complain about that. Indeed, it made it clear which way the market was heading, and I'd better pay decent money and grab something worth having.

We ended up picking three places (and spending far more than we expected). We have an apartment in central Plovdiv. It's a great city, and we're in one of the best areas (Hristo Smirnenski next to Regatta-Maritsa River and Youth Hill). Our country house is in the Balkan Mountains near Shipka and Kazanlak. We're in a lovely village with trails from our back gate which head up to 1,500m, yet only 10km to Lidl. And we have a holiday studio in Bansko the largest ski/mountain resort here. Each location is tip-top, we're extremely lucky to have such wonderful places to live in!

I have lived elsewhere in Europe, and I have residence permits in Cyprus and Spain too. I love Bulgaria, but it's really not in the same league (architecture/culture/food-wise) as expat hotspots like Italy, Spain, Portugal, France. And the Black Sea is rather a poor cousin to the Mediterranean. Those countries are far wealthier than Bulgaria, so they appear much cleaner and much better maintained. If I had the money, I would no doubt live there.

But comparing like with like, Bulgaria wins hands down. Spain's 2nd city is Barcelona, and a downtown apartment is 10X the cost of our Plovdiv pad. A holiday studio in a French ski resort is hundreds of thousands of euros. Back in the UK, I'd easily pay 500k if I wanted a country house just outside a National Park, with hiking/biking paths outside my door. Plus, the cost of owning (property taxes and utilities) is far lower here. Overall, we have an excellent quality of life here, far beyond anything I could afford elsewhere.

We have a lovely holiday apartment in a very nice traditional Spanish city (Elche, near Alicante) and I love visiting. But I spend 95% of my time in Bulgaria. It's especially noticeable in winter and summer, when we need heating and (lots of) cooling and our Spanish electric bill rapidly becomes ridiculous. I've had a 900 euros summer cooling bill in Cyprus. To keep it under control you have to limit the ACs to a couple of hours a day. Here in  Bulgaria we leave the AC units on 24/7 for a couple of months in winter and summer, and our electric is still less than 100 euros per month. And the apartment is extremely comfortable, even when it's 45 in Plovdiv.

@Adriana PetrovaWe are not considering living in the Netherlands. But I know after tax salaries are higher in western european countries despite higher taxation. Bulgaria is not low cost by any means despite the low salaries and groceries, toys(Lego!), furniture, electronics are often (much) cheaper in western europe.@cyberescue1, @sammut115Good to hear it worked out for you. It was interesting to read your experiences in buying in Bulgaria.@gwynjThank you for your extensive replies. Good to hear Bulgaria worked out well for you. The recent price increases are annoying indeed although our apartment in the most desirable part in a large city supposedly has gone up in value from 45k€ to 120k€. The real estate agent suggested putting it on the market for 130k€ to allow some room for negotiations. The thing is: nothing sells at these prices anymore. Other similar apartments on the market don't sell either. So, we don't intend to pay the high prices on the market either even if we could find an interesting property.I don't believe these current prices are even remotely realistic. Nobody in Bulgaria has seen a doubling or tripling in salary and it seems sellers are just using the inflation as an excuse to speculate without there being a real base for the price increased.Prices of materials have come down already in western europe(maybe not in Bulgaria where there is more speculation and a not so assertive customer base) but new construction does not need to be so expensive either.I have been looking at properties at alo.bg and some other websites in Veliko Tarnovo and Blagoevgrad and have found nothing. We will try to rent in Bansko now the skiing season ends because we like the summers there but will probably look and move abroad for buying in the near future.

@GoingDutch

It's not all bad news! Two inherited properties, and a nice profit on your current apartment. :-) But, of course, you don't really gain if you have to turn around and spend all the proceeds on a new apartment, which has also gone up a lot. Still, some good news is better than none. :-)

The other big issue is whether you work in Bulgaria, or you're retired and/or have savings from abroad and/or have remote work at a foreign salary. With a family there's a good chance you're in the former camp. I, and many other expats, are fortunate to be in the latter. If you're living on a Bulgarian salary then your comments make a lot more sense - I totally agree with you that, relative to salaries,  Bulgaria is not cheap to live in, or to buy property. And, indeed, one's entire experience of the country is probably substantially affected by this single issue. For expats in the latter camp, I would still maintain that Bulgaria is a great option. Whereas expats (or Bulgarians) in the former camp are probably going to do better if they relocate to a high salary country.

I worked here for a couple of years (teaching) and it was a load of aggravation for pennies. All it did was convince me I should chill out and watch Netflix or ride my mountain bike... or, at least, make sure I did remote work instead of in-person local work. There are non-monetary benefits from being a productive member of society and engaging constructively in a "proper" work environment... but I couldn't shake the feeling that I was spending an awful lot of time for an insultingly small amount of money. :-)

@gwynj

We are from western Europe too and I've worked in Bulgaria for western European hourly rates. Bulgaria is actually great for this as I have been taxed only 10% plus some social security taxes. I would never work for Bulgarian salaries, we would be much better off in Western European then.

It doesn't solve the housing issues though. The size/quality we are looking for just isn't there and the (low) quality you get in Bulgaria is far from affordable. I also don't see why foreigners would still come to Bulgaria for low cost properties as those are gone for some years already. Spain, Italy, Greece, and even Eastern Germany have much better deals these days and the quality and size of properties, lifestyle, air quality, and atmosphere is better there.

We also noticed the whole 'British buying rural properties in Bulgaria' thing is over for quite some years already. It seems to be mostly Russians, Ukrainians and Bulgarians returning from other parts of Europe who are buying these days.

We also noticed the whole 'British buying rural properties in Bulgaria' thing is over for quite some years already. It seems to be mostly Russians, Ukrainians and Bulgarians returning from other parts of Europe who are buying these days.        -@GoingDutch

Brexit has made it much harder for Brits to relocate to Europe, so my guess is this has had a significant impact on Brits moving to Bulgaria (and elsewhere in the EU).

@GoingDutch Blimey another one spits the dummy! Dont do that to me again mate nearly had me spitting my coffee out. So you swagger in offer 10% of the asking price and they tell you to go do one? I do love Bulgaria. Absolutely chuffed this country stands its ground. 

If you ask me the problem for you is not Bulgarians being poor. Is it not more like Bulgarians dont bend over to make you feel rich?

@mickeyhart

To be fair, there are not many places, or many sellers, who would be agreeable to such an offer. I'm guessing "will often not result in pleasant discussions" is quite an understatement. :-)

    We also noticed the whole 'British buying rural properties in Bulgaria' thing is over for quite some years already. It seems to be mostly Russians, Ukrainians and Bulgarians returning from other parts of Europe who are buying these days.        -@GoingDutchBrexit has made it much harder for Brits to relocate to Europe, so my guess is this has had a significant impact on Brits moving to Bulgaria (and elsewhere in the EU).        -@gwynj

Our experience is mostly with the Black Sea coast but they left already pre-Brexit for some reason. Brexit and Covid travel restrictions probably did the rest.

    @GoingDutch Blimey another one spits the dummy! Dont do that to me again mate nearly had me spitting my coffee out. So you swagger in offer 10% of the asking price and they tell you to go do one? I do love Bulgaria. Absolutely chuffed this country stands its ground. 

If you ask me the problem for you is not Bulgarians being poor. Is it not more like Bulgarians dont bend over to make you feel rich?

    -@mickeyhart

We never made an offer like that. The rural houses are in such a bad condition we did not even go to view one let alone make an offer. They all look very depressing to me and the previous inhabitant likely passed away there. But yes, these houses are actually worth nothing. One could make an offer for the land only.

@GoingDutch

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. If you've decided that Bulgaria isn't up to your standards, it's entirely your decision, and you're free to relocate elsewhere. (But I'm not so sure it will be wine and roses, as you seem to imagine!)

My concern is that many of your views are superficially reasonable... yet simultaneously completely unrealistic. Any expat holding the same views as you would have the same result: being dissatisfied with every offer, and hence being unable to find an acceptable property - even after several years of trying. Such a negative mindset dooms you to failure, and it's hardly worth the time/effort of searching/viewing if one is going to be so dismissive.

Moreover, even if Bulgaria is very small, it has a population of several million... and the vast majority of them disagree with you, and think that Bulgarian property is worth buying. It's fine to be a contrarian, and sometimes it pays off... but sometimes the wisdom of crowds is telling you that you need to recalibrate your views.

Bulgaria is the poorest country in the EU, so you have to accept there are some consequences to this, and some tradeoffs for living here. Poor countries inevitably look a bit tatty, because the money isn't there to keep it looking like Switzerland and Germany. And ditto the housing stock. But there are many positives, so you have to (find and) weigh those too.

So, the question is, are all Bulgaria apartments a bit rubbish, as you contend? I'd argue it's self-evident: they don't (mostly) fall down, and they're (mostly) occupied. Would an equivalent building look better in Spain or Germany? Yes, probably. The maintenance fees are higher, and there are more rules about upkeep and reserve funds.

Would the equivalent building/apartment be cheaper in Spain or Italy, as you contend? It seems very unlikely to me. Higher cost/richer countries typically have more expensive property. Even a cursory look at property websites shows that price/m2 is higher in Spain than in Bulgaria (comparing like for like). You can cherry pick examples to show how you can find a cheap property in expensive countries... but that is very different from the overall pricing for equivalent stock.

Similarly, are village houses worthless, as you contend? Again, it just seems very unlikely to me. Your contention that folks should sell off their village house for the cost of the land MINUS the cost of you demolishing the property and clearing the site... is, I'm sorry, ridiculous. There will be ZERO takers for such a proposition. Worse, this is affected by your stated view that these houses are worthless ruins... when, in reality, most folks will consider their house to be livable, or renovatable. There is no deal to be made in such a situation.

Again, I agree, Bulgarian village houses look a bit tatty. And sometimes the gardens and surrounds too. But is this a fundamental structural problem, or merely a cosmetic issue? In our village (which is very nice, admittedly) the vast majority of houses have been renovated. Very few have been allowed to fall into ruins. Some have been knocked down, but not because they were ruins or not renovatable, but because the new owner wanted to build a much bigger, modern house on the plot.

The key issue is that Bulgaria definitely has faults and negatives... but it also has many positives. Admittedly, some of the faults are more obvious than the benefits, but you have to quickly decide whether, on balance, it's a country that's good enough for you... or not. If it isn't, there's no point wasting time, it's better to immediately head over to Spain or Italy or Germany. But if it is, then you have you have to choose a place to live, and put down some roots.

I admit I'm at the extreme end of quick decision-making. Three days in Plovdiv is a pretty short time (and pretty small geographic sample) to decide that Bulgaria is fab. And then a few days to pick a property (actually, not even a few days, as I simply searched a big property website for the cheapest property that was already renovated and ready to move into). I think most folks would want to take a bit longer over both issues, and go see a few properties in person. But there's taking a few weeks... versus taking a few years. And having a slightly more positive/constructive approach to the search,

There's also the issue that committing to a property/country and putting down some roots, changes your perspective. It took some time to realize how lucky we'd been. The reality is that each of our properties has some significant negatives, and if I'd viewed it first, I probably would have not purchased it! In particular, I have to admit that my first impression was exactly as you describe: everything's a bit tatty and neglected. And I felt significant buyer's remorse. But they grew on me, and they educated me... so it became clearer that this is cosmetic rather than structural, and I was able to discover the joys of living in Bulgaria, and the places we'd picked, and the properties we'd purchased.

I'm not alone in this. Most expats on this forum who purchased a property here, found that the joys of living in Bulgaria far outweighed the flaws (of the country/their property).

@GoingDutch

I am curious. Where are your inherited properties, and what have you put them on the market for?

We are in the Blagoevgrad region now and prefer this over the Black Sea coast. The weather has been great too so far. We have been visiting some apartments to buy but nothing yet, new construction is very cramped and expensive. The square meters are getting less each year it seems.

Existing buildings we would likely not buy in because of the poor maintenance. We have seen many buildings in Bansko with the facade coming off and the wood in decay because it has not been painted for years. Yet not affordable by any means.

Likely we will spend the summer there and move back to Western Europe in autumn.

I'm glad you are enjoying where you are now.

@GoingDutch

Good choice! It's beautiful there in/next to the mountains!

I'm still a huge Bansko (or Razlog, next door, at a pinch) fan, and I think it's wonderful value for money. But I say this in the context of other European ski resorts / mountain towns, which is a fair apples-to-apples comparison (IMHO). Of course, Val-d'Isère and St Moritz are higher and more spectacular... but property there will cost 10-30 times as much!!

Bansko town is charming, it's a very decent ski resort (the largest in Bulgaria), and Pirin National Park (just outside the town) is spectacular. There's even a new Billa supermarket that seems to have pretty normal (rather than touristy) pricing. I absolutely would have no problem living here year-round.

While most of the distressed stock has gone, there are still some bargains that sometimes appear if you keep your eyes open.

Sapphire Residence (where I have a property) is not perfect, but it has pretty grounds, and it's close to the Bansko town park. I think this is a better family location than being up in the tourist area near the gondola. This was a distressed building, so the local bailiff sold many apartments here at very low prices (a few thousand euros in some cases). So it's possible that some folks will sell and take a smaller profit rather than demanding full market prices.

I've also seen a few properties done by InvestinBansko (dot com) and if you're in the area I suggest you consider viewing a few of their current properties. This is a pretty big company (an investor/builder, not a realtor) that acquired many of the big distressed buildings/complexes in Bansko (following the economic crisis, but continuing until very recently). They only purchased properties that were almost (or substantially) completed, and they've then only had to finish them off. This is a rather quick process, especially compared with getting plans and permissions and then building from scratch.

Instead of selling them as Bulgarian Standard (unfinished) as is typical in Bulgaria, they usually finish them completely, ready for living. The finish is fairly simple, but totally acceptable. They then sell the move-in-ready apartments at very attractive pricing and fill up the building within a few months. They also maintain the building at a very reasonable cost (especially compared with many resort buildings in the area). It's a very popular offering. Silver Mountain (Razlog, near Aspen Golf etc.) is the newest offer, I think.

If you do look around here, I agree that you have to watch the m2 allocated to common areas (rather than livable space). However, I think the more pressing issues are the maintenance fees (as mentioned, some buildings are over 10 euros per m2, which is a big cost if you want a larger family apartment). You also have to make sure you have separate meters for electricity (at least this one) and water. (Private rates are way lower than commercial rates, dramatically so for electricity.)

For bargains, I think some of the local realtors are more probable than a big national company. For example, Excel Property (excelpropertybulgaria dot com), Pirin Property (dot com), Plus Property (pluspropertybg dot com), Property Bansko (dot com).

@GoingDutch

I suspect you'll be skeptical, but for giggles I jumped on a large French property site and looked for studios in a smaller resort (Chamonix). I've skied there, and it's fab. The cheapest studios were at 200k for under 20m2 (OMG that's so teeny, and several also needed renovation). That's around 10,000 euros per m2. True, this quoted m2 is interior space. The maintenance might be 100 euros per month or so.

I also spent a couple of years in Andorra as a ski instructor. I lived in Arinsal which is small village with a ski resort fairly comparable with Bansko. It's a very pretty location, and my weekly hike up the Coma Pedrosa was always a delight. The neighbouring town (La Massana, about 3km away) is a similar size to Bansko (but less charming, I think). This is significantly cheaper than Chamonix so the cheapest studios are around 50 m2 for just under 200k euros (i.e. a bit more livable, and at a more accessible 4k / m2).

My most recent Bansko purchase was 23k for a 46 m2 studio (inc. common area, true interior maybe 40 m2). That's less than 600/m2 (for true interior space), and the maintenance is nearly 40 euros per month (for twice the space of the French offer and our complex has a swimming pool). This was fully furnished (very nicely) with a terrace and a nice view of the mountains. It's 2km from Lidl and 1km away from a gym. Plus... purchase expenses/transfer taxes, lift tickets, utility bills, general cost of living, and going out for a nice dinner... all way less than in  Chamonix or La Massana!

I probably sound like a right cheapskate and/or a broken record, but the sheer bang-for-your-buck here is pretty much unbeatable.

@GoingDutch

I'd just like to quickly jump in here and say I do understand your argument regarding overpricing. I recently saw an advert for a house in very poor  condition, with no obvious redeeming factors and they were rather optimistically advertising it for 114k euros. I had to read it several times, to make sure I'd read it correctly. Having said that, there are still lots of bargains to be had, if you're prepared to do some work. Rather than using agents, perhaps you could consider finding a village you like and asking the locals what's up for sale and how to contact the owners. Figure out what your favoured location is and ask the mayor in your favourite village. They're not always squeaky clean, but you never know, you might find an honest one. I really hope you find what you're looking for.

Something I remembered after I replied; you mention Spain and Italy as alternatives to Bulgaria. I don't know what your financial situation is, but be aware that you need a guaranteed annual income of around 28k euros for Spain and around 38k for Italy.

    Something I remembered after I replied; you mention Spain and Italy as alternatives to Bulgaria. I don't know what your financial situation is, but be aware that you need a guaranteed annual income of around 28k euros for Spain and around 38k for Italy.         -@grumpyoldbird

I believe that GoingDutch is a Dutch citizen and hence there is no financial restriction on them moving to another EU country.....apart from being able to survive on their income.

We viewed some apartments for buying in Blagoevgrad and went to see a half finished apartment complex. The location was bad (Elenovo), there was no view despite the mountains being gorgeous and we saw the build quality is very poor. The builder is so stingy they did not use cement in the brick walls but had just stacked the brick walls without cement. There were gaps in the wall because of the lack of cement which does not only lead to a weak construction but also to poor heat insulation and noise insulation.

In addition, the real estate agent made another poor attempt to sell us a tiny apartment despite us arriving with 4 people.

What was also quite surprising is that several real estate agents expected us to drive them around in our car… It can be explained by the Bulgarian customer service I guess.

@GoingDutch

Honestly, I genuinely sympathize with your situation, but I'm not sure there's a good solution.

It sounds like Bulgarian prices have gone up, and you've been priced out of the market. It's not good news, but you can't fight economics. Looking at the stuff that's available for a meagre stash is a recipe for frustration... they will inevitably be too small and/or too sh*t.

Our Plovdiv pad (2 bed, 1 bath in 95 m2) is lovely for a couple, but I doubt it's much fun for a family of 4. But even this dinky place is probably 200k-ish given the Plovdiv market. That's a scary amount of money to spend, and even scarier to realize you need to spend more to get enough room. If I were a newbie in Bulgaria, thinking I'd moved for a cheap/easy life, I doubt I could convince myself it was worth dropping 200k (or more) here! My initial let's check out Bulgaria purchase was 19k for a 1 bed in Bansko, it's just a completely different level of risk/commitment, which obviously dramatically affects my subsequent perception of how good/bad this country is.

It strikes me that you're better off than many here, as you've inherited property. Perhaps you could reconsider whether it would really be so bad to live in one of them, and slowly renovate it? If you can do remote working this might be feasible. And you might enjoy a bit of simple country living. After all, you know what they say about gift horses. :-)

Our village house is simply wonderful. I agree the location (Balkan Mountains / Shipka / Kazanlak) has a lot to do with it... but even in a different location it would still be a fab family house with lovely big private garden. I've seen the "before", so I know that it looked like an unloved, hopeless case. But in its renovated state, it's comfortable and modern, full of light. And I've witnessed many houses in our village go through a similar (or even more dramatic) transformation. Sure, it costs money, but you can do it slowly, over the years, as you earn it... and meanwhile you have no rent or mortgage to worry about. Just needs a bit of PMA (and TLC). :-)

@GoingDutch

ref using your car.

when we first viewed back in 2005 we were driven by the real estate guy, at the end of the day we were given a bill, and it was taxi rates, ok in those days at 3 lv to the pound it was not so bad, today that would end up with a large bill

@roywebb58

To be fair, Bulgaria is a big country and there were, and are, a lot of "dreamers" looking at properties that are in reality the wrong price/type/location for them.  Brokers don't make a lot of money out of sales, especially the El Cheapo "fixer-uppers/knocker-downers" that many of those who come to Bulgaria want to see because they haven't managed to find anywhere cheaper to turn their fantasies into realities.

I don't think it's unreasonable for property seekers to be expected to pay the travel costs to look at properties.  I do however think in that case, they should be only showing you places in line with your stated requirements. 

Part of that might be the Bulgarian approach to bedrooms, where every room apart from the bathroom has a bed in it, therefore is classed as a bedroom. I looked at a tiny studio apartment for a pied a terre in a nice part of Varna (five years ago, when Varna was still relatively affordable) that was housing a family of 3, grandma, mother, and teenage son.

Here in the UK, I was surprised to discover that the agents often don't even take prospective buyers to the property, they're expected to get there themselves and have the owners or even a neighbour with the keys show them around!

@gwynj

Do you have similar knowledge re Burgas and surrounding area?

Any recommendations where to start the search?

@adardom

I've visited, and I like Burgas. And there are some lovely smaller towns near it (Pomorie, Sozopol, Nessebar). Sozopol we especially liked, and we would have happily lived there.

Burgas is one of Bulgaria's big cities (Sofia, Plovdiv, Varna, Burgas), so I'd say a property in/near the biggies is a good option. But it's also the most expensive option!

But it's such a wide open question, it would be very helpful if we had more info (house/apartment, budget, sea/mountains/city, etc.). There are lots of folks here, with lots of knowledge/opinions, so you might get a more interesting response/discussion if you start a new thread, specifically about your objectives.

As mentioned in this thread and elsewhere, prices have gone up a lot in Bulgaria... but I suspect they've also gone up elsewhere too. There are negatives about life here (also as mentioned, and also as in any country), but there are LOTS of positives too. If you make a remote/digital income or you have a foreign pension/rents, then I think Bulgaria is one of the best options in the EU. If you need a proper job, I'd say the appeal goes WAY down (low local salaries, and you'll have to live in a big, expensive city).

I have residence permits for Cyprus and Spain too, and I would never say that Bulgaria is "better" than those two fabulous countries. They are massively popular with tourists and retirees, and deservedly so. Yet... I'm happier here, I have a far better quality of life here, and I choose to spend maybe 85%-95% of my time here.

@gwynj

thank you for as always a fantastic response and sorry for a non-specific question.

Just to answer some of your points. I have an EU passport so that should make my relocation easier in most aspects, however I've lived on the North American continent for the past few decades, so no EU healthcare card/coverage. I could move to the country of birth and establish myself there first and then move to BG, if that seems like a better first step. Any comments on that notion?  I'm not yet of retirement age so no pension, but do have and should have an income that should be quite comfortable for BG. At this time I'm looking to first rent an apartment, then to buy one after I have had a chance to live there for a few months. My starting point is Burgas for it's proximity to an airport, I like the sea, grew up by the sea so the coast is my choice (have lived by the mountains for 30+ yrs so a change of scenery is warranted). I must say that your posts about Bansko have interested me quite a bit, but still I would prefer the black sea coast. Am thinking of Pomorie, Sarafovo or some other not too small town in the area. It cannot be completely dead in off season, as I plan to live there most of the yr, there need to be some super-markets (ala lidl, real or the like) not too far. I would love some local food markets not too far as well. Am I looking for the impossible, here? :-)

So, I need to start looking at some sites advertising places for rent (longer term 3-6 months), the place would need to be furnished and preferably include utilities, although the uts should not be a problem; are those available? I've read that some folks house sit for others, and just pay the utilities, I'd be open to something like that (it'd be just me living there, I'm on the older side but still a bit off the official retirement age). Is there a site you know where folks post such requests? I'd also be open to be a roommate for a bit. So if there are sites you know for that? I looked on facebook Burgas expats, but did not see anything even remotely close to what I'm looking for, there. 

I see most here are looking for a house and garden, while I'd be open to house sitting such accommodation, I don't think I am interested in pursuing a buy in this department, I lived in the city my entire life, so that is why, but may change mind in the future.

Healthcare: you and others have commented at length on, in my case I think I would have to register as unemployed and get the state healthcare card and I should be good.

social security contribution: If I claim to be unemployed and make income from abroad, do I still have to make payments to that social security based on my remote income?  how much is the contribution, is there a limit? When do you stop contributing (is it when you stop making income, is it based on age)?

And finally the prices of RE: apparently prices of real estate in BG have gone up tremendously as they did in all other parts of the world, question is, what do participants here think about the next 2-3 yrs in terms of where those prices can go. I know that nobody has a crystal ball and that most here are owners and thus are biased to what they would like to see going forward, but really; given how much the prices have risen in the past 10-15 yrs in BG and I don't want to feed you with any other reasons as to not enforce your responses in one direction or another, what is the common feeling here among the expats and true Bulgarians about where the prices will go in the near future? I 'm not looking for an investment, just to buy for the purpose of living there, so the answers may not sway me in any direction anyway, but am truly curious what is the feeling, please try to be unbiased in your responses.

I think that I'm not planning the move for another yr or 2, so anything may happen in the mean time, but I like to plan; hence those questions.

@adardom

Always good to have a plan! :-)

The easy part: yes, you're absolutely correct that EU passport makes life much easier. You can simply fly over here and do a process called (officially) EU Citizen Registration. I did this and it took only 2 days. You will need proof of healthcare (local policy, about 100 euros) and proof of funds (nothing excessive, bear in mind minimum wage is only 500 euros per month). You will also need a proof of address, which is typically a long-term rental contract, so it's unlikely a housesit or roomie situation will suffice. Even if you take a year lease (to make immigration happy), you can give notice after a couple of months. (You'd probably lose your deposit, but no other penalties.)

The EU passport also gives you access to the Bulgarian health system. So you don't need to move back to CZ first. You can contribute as an employee, self-employed, or (as we do) unemployed. This last option is 20 euros per month per person, for full coverage in the public health system... and you can get an EHIC to cover you elsewhere in the EU. As noted elsewhere, most PRIVATE hospitals are affiliated with this system and are majority (90% ish, say) reimbursed by it. Private hospitals in USA and UK will give you VIP treatment too, but they'll also hit you with a massive bill.  Here. you'll get similar treatment... but they'll invoice you pennies. I've never experienced anything like it!

The Black Sea coast is very nice, it's a good choice. I think the best options are Burgas and Varna, or nearby. I don't know Varna well, but there are some nice beach suburbs (e.g. Golden Sands), and Balchik would definitely be a good choice (maybe Kavarna). Sarafovo is worth a look, but you might prefer Pomorie or Sozopol. I think these options will check all your boxes.

The social security contribution above is based on your formal status in Bulgaria. You would probably be unemployed. If you do a bit of remote work (say, as an independent contractor), my suggestion is that you declare your income and pay income tax on it. If you're doing a lot of work / making a lot of income, you might prefer to formalize it in Bulgaria either by becoming self-employed here, or incorporating your own Bulgarian company.

    @GoingDutchHonestly, I genuinely sympathize with your situation, but I'm not sure there's a good solution.It sounds like Bulgarian prices have gone up, and you've been priced out of the market. It's not good news, but you can't fight economics. Looking at the stuff that's available for a meagre stash is a recipe for frustration... they will inevitably be too small and/or too sh*t.

@gwynj

The prices, although way too high for the poor quality you get in Bulgaria, is only part of the problem. We consider the cramped apartments including the continuous lying over the square meters by builders/real estate agents, that everything is so run down everywhere, and the pollution the main problems.

We visited some other towns and they are terribly run down and very polluted everywhere because of old diesel cars. Even Sandanski and Velingrad, which are supposed to be 'spa resorts' with 'good air' are terribly polluted by old diesel cars. Sveti Vlas, which used to be a 'spa resort' once has completely been overbuild by concrete structures and is filled with old diesel cars now.

We(my wife) have inherited in Burgas. The city is so polluted we can't stand it, it has already affected my health a few years back. We have to pay rent now despite owning properties ... We have to protect the health of our children as well and can't let them become victims of Bulgarian stupidity and our (poor) choice to live here. I'd rather pay extra than let our health get damaged.

We considered living in a small village as well but we consider those to be to impoverished and run down, depressing, and often lacking basic infrastructure like decent roads. People there nearly all drive old diesel cars and I can't stand the pollution by coal burning in winter. In Bulgaria, I can only somewhat recommend Bansko outside of the old town which is also polluted.

We have decided we will leave Bulgaria soon as we won't be making any progress here and the structural problems like pollution will  remain here for decades to come.

Thanks for all of your replies.

I hope you can find a suitable home for your family elsewhere.

Sounds like a win-win result all round.