Understanding e-Visa Runs

    I’m hoping I can borrow on your experience here. I’m presently on a visa run, it was my first time trying it through the Moc Bai land gate instead of the airport. After leaving Vietnam I applied for an e-Visa, only to be told (twice) that I have been denied as I am still in Vietnam, and to re-submit my documents (at no extra cost) after leaving. Please note I left before submitting both applications. Is this just a  delay in their central systems receiving information from Moc Bai? How would you gents recommend I proceed?         -@Perseus

Your experience is definitely abnormal.

Contact a trustworthy visa agent.

PS: There are both women and men members of the forum helping with questions. Not only "gents" 😉

EDIT:

You probably need to clear the cache and cookies in whatever browser you are using, whether it's a laptop or a phone.

Also your location settings can affect it, especially if you turn off all location settings.

Make sure you aren't using a VPN, or if you are make sure it is set to Cambodia.

if there is no Cambodia setting you might want to make sure you are on local Wi-Fi and not using a Vietnam data plan.

these are just guesses

    I’m hoping I can borrow on your experience here. I’m presently on a visa run, it was my first time trying it through the Moc Bai land gate instead of the airport. After leaving Vietnam I applied for an e-Visa, only to be told (twice) that I have been denied as I am still in Vietnam, and to re-submit my documents (at no extra cost) after leaving. Please note I left before submitting both applications. Is this just a  delay in their central systems receiving information from Moc Bai? How would you gents recommend I proceed?         -@Perseus

Hello Perseus.

I had written to another member, here, the reason for immigration's response to your current eVisa application. Land border crossings are manned by military personnel, while immigration personnel man the int'l airport departure points. Take a moment to read post #10 in that thread.

I had written there...

"There is lag reported between the time of one's exit from VN via a land border crossing, and VN immigration becoming aware of your having exited. This is due to the fact that all VN land border crossings are manned by military personnel, with the reporting systems of the military and immigration not being directly shared (conversely, int'l airport crossings are manned by VN immigration officers). Consequently, do not expect immigration's reported application turnaround time of 3 days to apply."

Reports are that your departure from Vietnam will be known by immigration ~3 working days after exiting via a land border.

If this wait time is excessive, please let us know. As mentioned in the linked post, there are agents we are able to refer you to which are able to accelerate your reentry to Vietnam.

I hope that answers your question.

        I’m hoping I can borrow on your experience here. I’m presently on a visa run, it was my first time trying it through the Moc Bai land gate instead of the airport. After leaving Vietnam I applied for an e-Visa, only to be told (twice) that I have been denied as I am still in Vietnam, and to re-submit my documents (at no extra cost) after leaving. Please note I left before submitting both applications. Is this just a  delay in their central systems receiving information from Moc Bai? How would you gents recommend I proceed?         -@Perseus

Hello Perseus.
I had written to another member, here, the reason for immigration's response to your current eVisa application. Land border crossings are manned by military personnel, while immigration personnel man the int'l airport departure points. Take a moment to read post #10 in that thread.
I had written there...
"There is lag reported between the time of one's exit from VN via a land border crossing, and VN immigration becoming aware of your having exited. This is due to the fact that all VN land border crossings are manned by military personnel, with the reporting systems of the military and immigration not being directly shared (conversely, int'l airport crossings are manned by VN immigration officers). Consequently, do not expect immigration's reported application turnaround time of 3 days to apply."

Reports are that your departure from Vietnam will be known by immigration ~3 working days after exiting via a land border.
If this wait time is excessive, please let us know. As mentioned in the linked post, there are agents we are able to refer you to which are able to accelerate your reentry to Vietnam.

I hope that answers your question.
   

    -@Aidan in HCMC

Fortunately, foreigners in Đà Nẵng who use the major local agent don't run into those problems

Thanks for your knowledge. I had reached out to my lawyer (Vietnamese), who has a small team that specializes in Visas, but I am truthfully still trying to ascertain how trustworthy they are.

Incidentally, her explanation was that the government was deliberately making it difficult because I had used e-visas for almost a year. She recommended I  go ahead and email the government before hiring her team to resolve this matter. Has anyone else heard of such a problem?

Given that the forms are so straight forwards, what advantage would the agents have? If the problem is just a matter intra-governental communications lag, I simply need to wait, right?

Thanks for your knowledge.

You're quite welcome, of course.

I had reached out to my lawyer (Vietnamese), who has a small team that specializes in Visas, but I am truthfully still trying to ascertain how trustworthy they are.

Prudent.

Incidentally, her explanation was that the government was deliberately making it difficult because I had used e-visas for almost a year.

I believe her "explanation" is in actuality her guess/opinion. There are active members of the forum who have been here for much, much longer than you and who are still having their eVisa applications approved.

She recommended I  go ahead and email the government before hiring her team to resolve this matter. Has anyone else heard of such a problem?

I've mentioned on other threads that I would be absolutely gobsmacked to receive a report from any member advising us that they had received a reply to an email to immigration. Many have tried, never receiving even an acknowledgement of receipt. I believe that it would be a waste of both your time and effort. Your lawyer recommending you email immigration has me questioning the extent of their experience in these matters.

Given that the forms are so straight forwards, what advantage would the agents have?

The larger, established agencies have their "contacts" with the higher-ups at the immigration dept. The agencies have a reciprocal agreement with their contact at immigration, which likely involves apportioning the agency's fee charged to you (if you get my drift).

If the problem is just a matter intra-governental communications lag, I simply need to wait, right?        -@Perseus

Correct. If you can spare the time, just relax and enjoy your little holiday in Bavet.

I'm not sure what date you left VN, but if it was Wednesday or Thursday of this week, I would expect immigration to be aware of your having exited by Monday or Tuesday of next week (23rd or 24th Sep).

There is no limit to the number of times you can amend/resubmit your eVisa application, with one member amending 12 times before receiving approval. As immigration is now closed until Monday, you might want to submit your application today, anticipating immigration receiving confirmation of your exiting upon their return to work on Monday.

Please let the forum know how this pans out for you. We'd very much appreciate it.

    Thanks for your knowledge. I had reached out to my lawyer (Vietnamese), who has a small team that specializes in Visas, but I am truthfully still trying to ascertain how trustworthy they are.
Incidentally, her explanation was that the government was deliberately making it difficult because I had used e-visas for almost a year. She recommended I  go ahead and email the government before hiring her team to resolve this matter. Has anyone else heard of such a problem?

Given that the forms are so straight forwards, what advantage would the agents have? If the problem is just a matter intra-governental communications lag, I simply need to wait, right?
   

    -@Perseus

You can make good use of your time spent waiting by considering the advantages of moving to a different country.

Well I’m at day 12 now. With the last submission being made two days ago, I’ve resubmitted 4 times or so. I’ll definitely post when it goes through.

I can imagine that every now and then there are mistakes on their end and a file gets misplaced.

For others who stumble across the thread, so far all responses read as:

Denied Reason: You are currently staying in Vietnam. Therefore, you are requested to exit from Vietnam prior to your resubmisson of documents.

    Well I’m at day 12 now. With the last submission being made two days ago, I’ve resubmitted 4 times or so. I’ll definitely post when it goes through.
I can imagine that every now and then there are mistakes on their end and a file gets misplaced.

For others who stumble across the thread, so far all responses read as:
Denied Reason: You are currently staying in Vietnam. Therefore, you are requested to exit from Vietnam prior to your resubmisson of documents. -@Perseus

Frustrating.

Though (as mentioned earlier in this thread) I would not hold out much hope of receiving a reply, prior posts from members do hint at immigration actually reading emails sent to them. Send them an email with a pic of your passport's exit stamp and a pic of your passport info page.

Twelve days is a long time. There is always the option of using the services of a known, trusted local VN visa agent. Let us know if you'd like to take that route.

I sent that email at the time I first opened this thread, that very picture included. Whats the go to price on your visa agents? How quickly can they work?

    I sent that email at the time I first opened this thread, that very picture included. Whats the go to price on your visa agents? How quickly can they work?       -@Perseus

I'll send you a PM now. We try not to promote individual agents/agencies on the open forum.

For the benefit of other members contemplating the use of a local, trusted VN visa agent.

Here is a copy of the fee schedule from one such agency. Fees will no doubt vary from agency to agency.

The prices indicated do include the cost of the agency resubmitting an application on your behalf (i.e. $25 single, or, $50 multiple entry). Agencies are, unfortunately, not able to submit amendments to an eVisa application which has already been submitted/denied. The agencies will submit a new application on the applicant's behalf.

note: no member of expat.com's Vietnam forum has any financial interest in referring members to a local visa agent. We do so only in an effort to help fellow members receive their eVisa approval.

    I sent that email at the time I first opened this thread, that very picture included. Whats the go to price on your visa agents? How quickly can they work?
   

    -@Perseus

You previously asked about the advantage of  using an agent.

The most trustworthy and reliable agents have a means of contacting immigration directly on your behalf (probably unlike your lawyer) and working with people they know at immigration who may have a problem with your application that's not being revealed to you.

Of course, here in the forum we have no way of knowing if there is something that comes up when they screen your application that might end up causing them to effectively put a hold on it.

it's what they do when there is further information they want.

They really don't want to answer emails and phone calls from foreigners and they prefer to use the English speaking agents as the go-between.

The main agent here in Đà Nẵng always informs people that she will need to ask them some personal questions before resubmitting their application, and those questions would be based on feedback that they get from immigration.

As far as pricing goes, in the cases of special intervention, the price may vary based upon the amount of work needed and the citizenship of the foreigner.

I strongly believe you could have been back in Vietnam by now if you had already contacted an agent.

Either that or the agent would have told you that immigration has a cause for denying your re-entry.

We are beyond the point here in the forum where we can really give you any informative responses other than what's been given already.

Hopefully you and the right agent (that you trust more than your lawyer) will be able to fix this soon.

Or do as my good friend John has suggested and follow him buy moving from Vietnam to Cambodia...

Good Luck!

Thanks for your insights.

My embassy (Canadian, in Vietnam) reports that there is no record of my having left Vietnam on the system. It's a bit surprising how easily the embassy can gather this information. The reason for the delay seems exactly as the Vietnamese government has stated. My embassy also recommended I visit the Vietnamese Embassy, here in Cambodia, so they can verify exactly where I am.

I may have to try booking an agent if that doesn't work. I'll report the result here, in case another has the same problem, or intends to implement the same solutions.

What a mess. I have never heard of a situation like the one you find yourself in in my 7 years here. You must be livid (I sure would be)!

I'd wager the cause of all this rigmarole lies with the VN military's border patrol personnel, not with the VN immigration side.

...My embassy (Canadian, in Vietnam) reports that there is no record of my having left Vietnam on the system. It's a bit surprising how easily the embassy can gather this information.

As I understand it, embassies and consulates worldwide are made privy to the status of their respective citizens by the immigration offices of the embassy's host nation.

Has me very curious now as to whether the Canadian embassy in Cambodia is showing you as being in Cambodia. Give them a call when you find you have time. Would be odd to learn you are showing as being in both countries at once.

The reason for the delay seems exactly as the Vietnamese government has stated. My embassy also recommended I visit the Vietnamese Embassy, here in Cambodia, so they can verify exactly where I am.

Wow, and by "wow" I mean "HOLY CRAP"! At least Phnom Penh is not very far from you. Should you decide to do this, make sure to call the VN embassy there to determine whether or not you need to schedule an appointment to be seen.

I may have to try booking an agent if that doesn't work. I'll report the result here, in case another has the same problem, or intends to implement the same solutions.       -@Perseus

It might be much cheaper/faster to use the services of an agency. Prior to making a decision to go that route, speak to a representative of the agency you choose and carefully explain the situation fully. It may be that even the agency would have difficulty clearing you of this predicament.

In the meantime, I suggest you continue to resubmit your application, in hopes that this reporting lag rectifies itself.

Your reporting back would be very much appreciated.

Godspeed.

Has me very curious now as to whether the Canadian embassy in Cambodia is showing you as being in Cambodia. Give them a call when you find you have time. Would be odd to learn you are showing as being in both countries at once.

    -@Aidan in HCMC

I was wondering the same thing...

@Aidan in HCMC. Reading these posts with avid interest, thank you to all who have contributed. I use firefox as my browser and Duck duck go as the search engine, in-private browsing and when I log into fb an email comes back notifying me of a suspicious log-in from Sweden, just a thought for our friend with the issue.

Approved, overnight, on day 14, after travelling to Phnom Penh. No further actions taken.

As per the conversation with my Embassy, it seems the problem is more or less as @Aiden described: a failure or a delay in communication between the military border and central authorities. I did reach out to both the Embassy in Vietnam and Cambodia (Canadian) at the same time (and same email); and it is possible that the Cambodian Embassy forced the update through (though they never replied to the email sent, I only heard back from the Vietnamese side). Meaningful to consider.

We can certainly add that they don't like it when their systems don't accurately predict the locations of citizens (or targets of interest) and so, entirely without charity or concern for our personal needs, they have every motivation to flag the matter and work to correct the problem.

With regard to speculating on the length of the Vietnamese government's electronic arm; YouTube knows when I am in Cambodia or Vietnam, my google account knows, my GPS demonstrates clearly where I am, and none of these are so difficult for governments to access. While I wouldn't be surprised to find their finger in the pie, it is highly unlikely that I need to relog into Facebook specifically, after crossing a border, before the government can confirm my location. The possibility of an algorithm that works to amalgamate all such electronic data and extrapolate location with some margin of certainty does seem, intuitively, like a tool that governments would use. Assuming it exists, it's probably not the case that it desperately needs our help in order to make reasonable predictions; and indeed, if it were so helpless and puerile it would not yet have entirely overtaken and replaced the old-fashioned border checks, that confirm exit through the use of a passport.

... Just the same, if anyone knows better please do correct me. And thanks so much to all of you, for your wisdom and time.

@Perseus

You haven't talked much about your exit from Vietnam.

Did you give the officer some coffee money?

Did you use the correct line where people were waiting or the other line where there wasn't any wait?

This is pure speculation, but given the fact that border guards certainly know about many people's intentions to immediately re-enter Vietnam (while also knowing that they can cause you a problem if they don't scan your passport properly) it's not an entirely crazy idea that this was done on purpose.

As I've previously mentioned, the major visa agent in the Đà Nẵng area regularly transports bus loads of foreigners to and from the Lao Bảo border crossing without any problems.

She takes all of the passports to the exit point officer and gets everyone processed through en masse.

I'm virtually certain she also includes some extra coffee money with the passports she submits.

Most of those people have already gotten a new reentry visa by applying a month or more ahead of time through her.

One special bus every week carries mostly people who waited till the last minute to ask for her assistance.

She takes them to the border and personally assists in having their passports scanned for exit.

Then, after those people process through the Laos immigration entry point, they wait in a nearby coffee shop for 3 or 4 hours, until she is able to get new urgent Vietnam E-visas approved by immigration and sent to their phones.

As a Vietnamese citizen she is able to go back and forth across the border without a visa, in case there is any special problem.

Then everyone exits Laos and re-enters Vietnam and boards the bus for the return to Huế/Đà Nẵng/Hội An

One way or another, I'm certain that most border guards/immigration officers want to get in on that action

No coffee money was given and I did use the correct line. I’ll probably just stick to the airports until I finish applying for a work visa. The guard was friendly, and did not attempt to solicit any extra funds.

It’s so passive aggressive, but possible. I wonder why they wouldn't ask or hint, or threaten, or ask for more paperwork, etc.

In your experience, would you simply assume all officials are corrupt and slip them extra cash? Have you suffered some kind of consequence when failing to do so?  I’ve managed to avoid any bribing or extortion for the year I’ve lived in Vietnam. I haven’t been solicited once yet. Have I just been lucky or is Vietnam perhaps improving in this regard?

    No coffee money was given and I did use the correct line. I’ll probably just stick to the airports until I finish applying for a work visa. The guard was friendly, and did not attempt to solicit any extra funds.
It’s so passive aggressive, but possible. I wonder why they wouldn't ask or hint, or threaten, or ask for more paperwork, etc.

In your experience, would you simply assume all officials are corrupt and slip them extra cash? Have you suffered some kind of consequence when failing to do so?  I’ve managed to avoid any bribing or extortion for the year I’ve lived in Vietnam. I haven’t been solicited once yet. Have I just been lucky or is Vietnam perhaps improving in this regard?
   

    -@Perseus

Not all officials, but there are certain well-known situations where I've been glad to slip someone ₫100,000 or more, based on the recommendations of many friends.

if you are getting married and going to get the psych exam, you can come back the next day to pick up your completed paperwork, or you can slip coffee money to the doctor and the receptionist and get your paperwork in about an hour from the time your exam is completed.

if you are dealing with the local police to get your official temporary residence certified at your regular place of residence, it's definitely worthwhile to slip them one or 200,000 for their expedited assistance.

Always be prepared to pay some coffee money if you are stopped for a traffic violation

However, it's in my experience that it is considered offensive by the local committee person to offer them money for their help.

Also, when we went to the provincial committee in Quảng Ngãi to register our marriage, the person who registers those documents laughed at me when I suggested that I give her something for her troubles.

The situation is very similar to that in Mexico:

Policeman and border guards don't make very much money so they often pay someone off in order to get one of the prime duty spots where foreigners normally pay some coffee money.

Immigration has always been known as a place where some coffee money is helpful when there is a difficult visa situation.

Everyone thinks that visa agents overcharge and make a big profit when they help someone but a significant part of their increased fee for personal assistance is passed along to someone in immigration who helps them.

I feel very fortunate to be married into a Vietnamese family because they have helped me navigate a number of these situations, encouraging me to pay coffee money when it's appropriate and slapping my hand in other situations when it's not. 

I personally would never cross the border without slipping the officer some coffee money.

Of course I would do that along with walking over to the Short line that doesn't have any people in it.

That's the way to get through there ahead of the line and the officer will probably have a smile on his/her face.

over the years we've had a lot of people say that they never ever pay coffee money and I say more power to them.

I'm just personally a bit more pragmatic and not too offended by the need to slip someone something valued between $4 and $8 USD.

let someone else cry out "It's the principal of the thing!"

Cheers!

A time for all things, the when and where are circumstantial and I wouldn't look down my nose at someone for doing as much. I have no self-aggrandizing prescription for how the world should operate.

I'm the wiser for hearing about your experiences.

@OceanBeach92107 how would I find the name(s) and contact details of the agents. Been following the forum for some time. Helpful info. Sj

    @OceanBeach92107 how would I find the name(s) and contact details of the agents. Been following the forum for some time. Helpful info. Sj
   

    -@Sj-SEA

Thanks for first posting your question in the forum.

I've accepted your contact request and you can now send me a PM.

@Perseus

It's pretty well known that it takes three or four days for the computers to register leaving VN through a land crossing.

The land crossings are run by the Army, the airports are run by immigration.  Airports exits are recognized immediately.

Your best bet is to get comfortable for a day or two and then apply.  Remember it will still take another three or four days (at least) to process. 

And they don't work weekends.  This path  is if you do it yourself.  At the present, try an agent who, for a fee can sort it out.  In the past I have used Emily Visa.  I would trust her implicitly.  Find her on FB.

Good luck.

@Aidan in HCMC

I may be helpful for me to have the agency's Contact details also. I would be grateful.

    @Aidan in HCMC
I may be helpful for me to have the agency's Contact details also. I would be grateful.
   

    -@Dannyroc3

Send me a PM request

I was advised to use an agent if I'm not going back home to the parent country to resubmit a new e-Visa Application. I guess if I was going for a week in Cambodia/Laos/Thailand, then maybe I'd do it manually. But I think an Agent is far more experienced in handling all the paperwork and making sure everyone has an enjoyable Coffee or two. I don't see the issue as the "principal of the thing" but smooth paths make life more enjoyable all round. I think it is actually cheaper via Agent than long flights home and a week or two there before circling around back. I'll probably do a trip like that in the next 12mths only because I want to fill my suitcase with goodies, .