Can anyone talk to me about Libya

What do you  want to know and why?
If the information is here on the forum then it's here for anyone else that might be interested too.

As you will see from discussions on this forum that people's opinion on Libya can be very different. Some people love it and will deny any negative points, other people hate it and will only say negative things. I personally don't like Libya but there are some positive aspects to living here.

Different people will experience different sides of Libya. I think the main differences are between men and women and where people live. I think western men are generally treated pretty much as normal people, but life here is different for women. Most westerners here live on the compounds or in villas surrounded by other westerners and the wealthier Libyans, their experience will be different from someone living in an average Libyan neighbourhood.

I can tell you about my experience here if you can be a bit more specific about what you want to know. (i am female, western, been here for a few years)

Thanks for the reply - basically I have grown up in Australia and have never left the country. I have to rely on the media for information about what is going on in the world and it seems to me that the information is largely terribly biased. I want to know how people living in Libya saw their own condition before the Western world intervened last year - it seemed to me a very different situation to Tunisia and Eygpt. I don't believe intervention was justified? Was intervention what the majority of people wanted? I saw young men with guns on abandoned cars in desert areas and the media seemed to be trying to portray these as some sort of hero resistance when they looked like radical rebels and it seemed a lot of ordinary looking (unarmed)people; families, women, elderly were supporting Col Gaddafi. I have seen some of his speeches recently and interviews with his sons and I have to say that something is making me believe them and it is shocking and terribly sad to me to realise we are quite possibly on the side of the bad guys...

Are these things true of Libya:

Electricity was free
$50,000 is given to newlyweds to help buy a house
$5 000 given on the birth of a baby
Loans from government bank were 0% interest
Annual payments were made to citizens to share the wealth from natural resources

Was there talk of making a gold dinar a common currency for the African nations?

How does the standard of living compare to the UK? What is the best and worst of Libya from your point of view and what impact did the former government have on that? Do you see things getting better or worse for the people of Libya? Are you aware of anything the "interim government" has done good or bad for the people?

Appreciate insight from any and all.

Thanks so much for your time

Electricity Was NOT free
No 50k to newlyweds
No 5k on the birth of a baby
Not sure about the loans, they could have had 0% interest but what I DO know is that they weren't easy to get.
The "share the wealth" thing was Mouammar's new idea, started a few years ago but seemed like a scam mostly, some family's were given bonds or stocks in certain government assets but it was never clear what families would be chosen and when/how would they be able to cash their money. Other members may inform you more regarding this.
About me: I'm a college student in Tripoli, I consider myself a realist, Never loved or hated Gaddafi, I was cheering for the rebels half way through the war but mostly because it was clear they're gonna win it with NATO's support and everyone just wanted the whole deal to end ASAP.
Fact: The majority of the population wanted Gaddafi gone during the uprising/war, but Gaddafi had a lot of supporters too, mostly through what's called "Revolutionary committees", hence the rather large pro-Gaddafi protests.

Thankyou so much - can you tell me about being student? Do you pay for your studies, do you have to pay for healthcare if you are sick? Do most people who want to work have a job? Were you able to safely speak out against Gaddafi if you disagreed with things? Has anything much changed? Do you think people felt that they would be better if he was gone or did not think about it much? Do you think the resistance had any ties to Al Qaeda or just ordinary people sick of the regime? Do you feel annoyed about outside interference from people who do not live in or truly know much about Libya.

Again, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time and feel free to only answer whichever questions you like

It's alright, feels good to get the info out there, I'll answer your questions one by one:
- Studying in University is mostly free, I study engineering in Tripoli (Alfateh previously) University and it's one of the more decent colleges.
-Health care is NOT free, and is generally very bad, The more you pay however the more you get (in private clinics and such).
-I hear people complaining a lot about not being able to find a job here, personally I had no problem finding part time jobs, and I feel anyone who is smart and motivated will not face any problems, however the salary is on the extreme low end compared to western countries, ofcourse Things like Fuel and bread are cheap but obviously there's things that cost just the same or more than in europe, I can feed a small village for a couple days with a month's salary but I couldn't buy a PS3, If you get me.
-People could NOT say negative things about Gaddafi in public, however in the last few years criticism of certain government structures was allowed, Gaddafi himself started to portray the image of an honorary leader that was against corruption and would  often speak against it in speeches and such, whether this image was real or not.. no one can tell for sure, probably not though.
-changes regarding my everyday life:
* Lots of guns on the streets, sometimes in the wrong hands.
* People express their views about politics openly now.
* people generally give less attention to the law, traffic laws for example.
-Most people believed that with Gaddafi dead and gone the country would be a whole lot better, however in the time between his death and now, a number of these people are starting to feel pessimistic and betrayed.
-The uprising had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda, but some eastern rebel "brigades" consisted of Al-Qaeda affiliated personnel and other religious extremists, all Libyan however.
-Without NATO's support Gaddafi would have won the war in March or April, With NATO's support the rebels won the war in October, is a dictatorship regime change worth 6 months of bloodshed? I am honestly in no position to tell.

Excuse me for rambling and for any language mistakes lol

Libyan Rocknroll, I just wanted to thank you for sharing your opinions and thoughts.  I am sure many expats appreciate your response as well.

As for the free healthcare and electricity, my family and I did receive free healthcare on many occassions at the public hospitals and in certain towns we lived in we did not receive an electric bill.  I know that many always thought that Libyan doctors were not good and they would go to an array of doctors before they were satisfied, but luckily we always received excellent care (but the buildings and equipment were not to standard often times.)

We all hope that Libyans can work towards reconciliation and rebuilding the country rather than letting hate and revenge lead the way. It starts by everyone taking responsibility of their own actions today.

Again thanks for sharing.

It's all good, just takes a few minutes of my time

Hello again, I posted another response after your last but it did not show up for some reason - I did have more questions; I will rewrite again when I have tome later tonight - I really appreciate your time Libyan RocknRoll and wanted to say you haven't rambled at all and your English is excellent.

Libyan RocknRoll wrote:

Excuse me for rambling and for any language mistakes lol

It's not a ramble. It's an opinion and a freedom of expression. That is pretty much what the whole war/revolution against Q. was all about. Nothing wrong with this.

A most interesting thread indeed...Libyan page of Expat.com has been rather quiet for a while. This thread is a certainly a breath of fresh air.

Thanks to those who have contacted me via message, I am very very interested in any and all opinion...

@naomaah can you tell about the differences in Libya and the UK - can you tell me how being a woman gives you a different perspective, can you tell me the best things and worst things about Libya from your point of view before and after Gaddaffi?

@Libyan RocknRoll can you tell me your experience regarding * lots of guns on the streets, sometimes in the wrong hands.... do you know of any plans to get these guns off the streets? I wanted to ask if you think your views are common at least amongst those of similar age? Do you think your parents or other generations have different feelings? Can you tell me what it was like both in terms of safety and media coverage before the UN/NATO intervened and what it was like when they did? Can you tell me some more about your thoughts with regards to: - Most people believed that with Gaddafi dead and gone the country would be a whole lot better, (in what ways?) however in the time between his death and now, a number of these people are starting to feel pessimistic and betrayed. (Why do you think - has the change they were hoping for not occurred?)

I read that students who could not study a relevant course in Libya would be trained in other countries (eg Syria) and given an allowance at the government expense - is this true to your knowledge?

@bluejay thanks so much for your input -  do you know if the "no electric bill" was common in smaller ares? Is it true that the government would send people abroad if they could not get specialist medical attention if needed?

Can anyone tell me what immediate circumstances are earmarked for change other than elections? Is it true that reforms are largely centering around oil and banking? Is there anything that no one seems to be saying that you think needs to be said?

At the UN Security Council - Russia did not Veto (abstained) the "humanitarian" resolution but as soon as it was passed it was clear that the agenda was not just humanitarian and Putin spoke out against it aggressively - perhaps as a consequence he continues to VETO attempts to "help" in the same manner in Syria. Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?

Thankyou all, I do hope that you are safe and that things improve for you all and your loved ones quickly

inaustralia wrote:

Is there anything that no one seems to be saying that you think needs to be said?

Yes, what no one is talking about is what the overthrow of Q. and the essential ejection of Libyan influence in African matters (will be very busy for the next 10 years rebuilding Libya!) and what is going to happen to that power vacuum within Africa. Q. had  always meddled in other African countries and in some strange way had used Libyan oil to influence certain  outcomes (what good he did is open to debate and interpretation!) both with direct neighbors and some not so direct neighbors. In more recent times he seemed to had gone into over drive in trying to influence Africa.

inaustralia wrote:

At the UN Security Council - Russia did not Veto (abstained) the "humanitarian" resolution but as soon as it was passed it was clear that the agenda was not just humanitarian and Putin spoke out against it aggressively - perhaps as a consequence he continues to VETO attempts to "help" in the same manner in Syria. Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?

#1 - Russia doesn't give a flying h00t about anything except Russia and her interests.
#2 - Russia has 1/2 of Europe in the palm of her hand and does not need to get involved in weird crazy stuff going on it North Africa that is nowhere near its borders.

douglas1969 wrote:

Yes, what no one is talking about is what the overthrow of Q. and the essential ejection of Libyan influence in African matters (will be very busy for the next 10 years rebuilding Libya!) and what is going to happen to that power vacuum within Africa. Q. had  always meddled in other African countries and in some strange way had used Libyan oil to influence certain  outcomes (what good he did is open to debate and interpretation!) both with direct neighbors and some not so direct neighbors. In more recent times he seemed to had gone into over drive in trying to influence Africa.

Thankyou for sharing your thoughts, can I ask you what you mean by "will be very busy for the next 10 years rebuilding Libya!" do you mean literally in terms of damage to infrastructure or in terms of the standing/perception of Libya within Africa? There are rumours of sorts in alternative media saying the Gaddaffi for many years was trying to unite with African nations to create a unified currency, like the euro but based on gold rather than a fiat currency, it has been suggested that if this currency came to fruition oil would be traded in this gold backed currency - the gold dinar. Do you know if there is any truth to this? Was there any news of this on the government agenda or in the news?

Thankyou for your thoughts on Russia in relation to Libya. From your perspective would it be fair to say that Russia is not an ally/close friend of Libya? Would you consider Syria, Eygpt, Iran or any other near by nations an ally or close friend of Libya. Did leaders of other countries visit Libya often?

douglas1969 wrote:

In more recent times he seemed to had gone into over drive in trying to influence Africa.

Do you think any of these attempts may have stepped on the toes of any of the European or Western countries interests?

I ask all of these things because I wonder why NATO moves so quickly in some countries and not in others and I am not buying into what I am told by the media anymore.

Yes, "very busy for the next 10 years rebuilding Libya" refers to it will take a long time to rebuild the country and stabilize it. Includes construction as well other things. Do you know how to make a democracy from scratch fast? I don't. Not sure what makes everyone think Libyans know how to do it any faster.

Yes, there are lots of conspiracy sites online and feel free to Google and read. I won't get into it.

What I refer to is the problems of Africa spreading North. There are lots of people in Africa, lots of poverty, lots of violence and lots of instability. Very little of it gets any coverage in the Northern hemisphere because -- well, no one really cares much about it. Anyways, problems have a tendency to spill over from one border into another. The belief that somehow Libya is insured and insulated from the rest of Africa's problems because they are "good muslims" or they are "more civilized" Arabs vs the "less civilized" Africans makes no sense.

I am old enough to remember Liberia and the lunacy that went on in the 90s.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/baobab/2 … les-taylor

I still recall Jesse Jackson -- a presidential hopeful at one point -- standing on a podium back then proclaiming how great and wonderful a success Liberia was and how it's a miracle that freedom and democracy had to first happen in the birthplace of his free ancestors. JJ, not a stupid man by any means, but still to this day I wonder.. WTF was going on in his head?

Libya has to get the country back in law and order ASAP. Crazy people pop up and crazy things happen when there is no law and order.

.. what you mean by "will be very busy for the next 10 years rebuilding Libya!" do you mean literally in terms of damage to infrastructure or in terms of the standing..

Good discussion.

Healthcare was free, but I would never take the neighbourhood stray to the local hospitals here.

Electricity not free. The only reason some people would not have been billed, is the pathetic administration in the public sector. We hope these things, among many others, will change.

uefastriker wrote:

Healthcare was free, but I would never take the neighbourhood stray to the local hospitals here.

yup, quite a few places have "quasi" free healthcare (you actually pay for it out of your taxes here!).

btw - inaustralia, the Gaddafi/Africa and gold dinar conspiracy theory is up there with the top 10 kooky conspiracy theories.

#1 - asian muslims  (Malaysian or Indonesians) came up with the idea and not Q.

#2 - modern finance systems are based on fiat money; a.k.a. print as much money as you want in reserve -- that's why its called the "federal reserve" and that's why Bernake can print as much as he thinks the country needs and does not go to jail! a very small percentage ever needed to be backed by actual gold. its been like that for a very, very long time.

Hi douglas thanks. I'm very very aware of the way the Fed and their counterparts in most other countries and how they are running us all into the ground. Libya the same? Wasn't I believe ...but will be soon

inaustralia wrote:

Hi douglas thanks. I'm very very aware of the way the Fed and their counterparts in most other countries and how they are running us all into the ground. Libya the same? Wasn't I believe ...but will be soon

the "nixon shock"