american girl to marry saudi amd move to riyadh

Hi Amyasb,

I pray that the man your going to marry is worth the sacrifices your about to make if your coming to Saudi, cuz this is going to be one hell of a coster ride. excuse my language.

I am almost All the Time Positive about Saudi Arabia, but when it comes to marrying a Saudi man as a foriegn lady, life can be "really tough" I will tell you what I can at the momment and I pray that I do justice for both sides, so God Help me.

no matter how loving your hubby might be, he still loves others as much as he loves you if not more that is, "don't freek out" I meant like his sisters his mother his dad. they will play an important role in your life, so try to get to know them before you come here, I don't mean at all that they will be the villians or the heros, it's just better to know they like you before you meet them.

why I say this is becuase of what I read on Susies Blog: Kindly Read All Four Parts of this Story

Now I don't mean that your family will be like that as well, but I mean that you will have to know what you "might" be up against in the Worst case senario.

now with the positive part.

There are many (vast) cultural diferences, in dressing, food, social events etc.. making friends will be reall easy, if your sisters in law are okay in english, you will have the time of your life, they will be so excited they will introduce you to every one they know, and everyone they dont know for that matter you as a Saudi mans wife will have tons of friends, (by the way, if you live in a shared house with the rest of the famil....   []sorry my keyboard just ranout f battery & now im using the on screen key board wich annoyin. i'll retun in the mornig to complete my reply

Thank you Salman.  I am a culture nerd (especially mid-east cultures).  I was an Anthropology undergrad and social science Masters.  Currently I teach history, culture, and religion in the US.  I have been trying to research as much as possible about Saudi culture. I am about as open minded about culture as it gets, but everything I have read about Saudi brings me to tears, literally.  I have been trying desperately  to find some positive experiences of Americans married to Saudi, but cant find anything at all:(  The family issue is a big one for me.  I am an extremely independent American woman who has no family reliance, so its is so hard for me to accept any family involvement in my relationships.  The Saudi I may marry is the oldest son of seven, which adds extra responsibilities.  Life is strange and opposites attract.  If I wasn't so committed I could easily walk away from the whole idea of ever going to Saudi, and really I don't want to, but it may come down to go there or lose the one you love.  So---I am trying to learn as much as possible prior to making the biggest decision of my life.........ah, its frustrating!

I don't mean to sound cynical ...

but ...

we will love and lose at least several people in our lifetime.

I think this is one of the instances where you should seriously consider walking away (if not for you, for any children you might have.  Remember--and I know everybody keeps telling you this--when you have children in KSA, they are his, not yours).

I have heard that in KSA a woman cannot divorce a man but he can divorce her, simply by saying 'I divorce you' three times.  I don't know if this is still true (comments?) but the point is, should you two part, the children go with him, no questions asked and he is under no obligation to even allow you to see them.

Now I understand that you know him in the USA and think that he'd never be like this .. but things change in time.  AND I think they may change drastically once he is back in his own culture.

THAT said, however, not all people are the same and there are always exceptions.

I know I've been of no help!  But please consider all the possibilities.

Dear Amyasb,

Your quote "I am an extremely independent American woman who has no family reliance" answers your question. The world before marriage is all together different than after. Your would be hubby may be very nice and open but if you live in other country, particularly if it happens to be Saudi Arabia, you will see lot of differences which you have to consider(dress code, not talking to males other than your family members, driving not allowed,conversion to Islam, bear children even if you want to delay a little bit, decisions for you being made by others which is not necessarily your hubby but his parents etc.). One may adopt to new culture and lot of restrictions (mostly one way, i.e., you have to adopt not the other way round)but as you have been brought up in American culture and freedom, I very much doubt that you would be able to adopt to all restrictions (some may be so small but everything counts, that you may feel pushed to corner, as family values are very important and pressure from family, relatives, friends would be too much demanding on you through your hubby).

I know you want to hear positive story but someone else's story is not going to help you. If children are brought into the world before it is realized it was mistake it may be too late.

But hey, if there is no history of positive experience or at least you haven't seen or heard it, it doesn't mean it will always be bad. There is always a first time when the history will be written with new fresh ideas and stories. I hope you become that first story and you being history teacher may narrate your own story.

Don't let others chose what is good for you. Imagine if you are confused now listening to views from different people what will happen if other people will almost always make decisions for you.

I wish you all the best. May God show you the right path.

How is Tampa? I was in Altamonte Springs, near Orlando until July 2009. Weather must be turning fine now as few more weeks are left until hurricane season is over.

Take care,
Noorie

Hello, rest assured I will return with alot more details and facts, but untill then, heres a "Positive" insight of an American Lady who made it through the tougest part, and being a wife of a Saudi and mother of six, she always looks at life in a positive manner, her name is Lisa.. and she is a Hero in my book.

Lisa wrote:

I am a living, breathing contradiction - a simple person with many complexities... I have been married to the most wonderful man in the world since I was eighteen years old...I am the frazzled mother of six beautiful children; I am a healthy, artsy, redneck, hippie vegan.

My husband is from Saudi Arabia and throughout our marriage we've lived back and forth between the Middle East and the United States.

Her Blog: Click me to Read the Blog

And her Archives on life in Saudi: Click me as well

I hope and this is the BEST I can give of a genuine life experience of a positive life for a western house wife in Saudia.

I'll return later on, I hope you do read through, it might take you a while, but this is what you are looking for.

enjoy,

Salman

I did read about Lisa.  Also she said she wasn't completely honest about her experiences with her in-laws, and in the end, she went back to the US.  I keep getting private messages from american woman commenting on how ridiculuos the idea of marrying a saudi is.  its has been quite disheartening, and i have gone to bed crying myself to sleep....this is turning into a disaster:(

Please check this blog out:
http://www.expatinterviews.com/expats-i … rabia.html

Basically, you have to understand that when you do marry a Saudi and come to live in the Kingdom you are bound, 100%, by the rules of the country which is based on Islamic Shariah Law.

Your fiance may be a good man and some one you love very much. However, when you do marry an Arab, you also marry the family and there is no way you can turn your back on that.

Expectations and value systems are very different here compared to what you may have been exposed to and have acquired from your neck of the woods. Yes, you may have an open mind but you must know all the ropes and be prepared to face them if and when you are confronted with them in the future.

Children, that may ensue form the union will be most often under the custody of the father, especially girls, on acciount of the Mahram (Guardian) requirement for girls under Islamic Law.

Dress code, ban on driving, no free mixing of males and females in public places, etc are issues to keep in mind.

Jobs for women are also confined to specfic areas, viz healthcare, education etc and are also bvased on a segregated environment except for hospitals where it is impossible to enforce segregation.

There have been many cases of similar marriages where separation and divorce has forced the western women to seek redress with the various US Embassy offices in Saudi. You may want to seek their advice too since they are fully aware of the many cases they have dealt with in the years gone by.

Love, is only a figment of ones imagination that is based on choice. In my view you can love anyone you wish as long as you make that choice. Similarly, choice can get one out of love too. Its not the be all and end all of living on this planet.

Remember, there are 6+ billion human beings on earth of which half must be men and maybe another half of that, eligible bachelors. Thats plenty of choice.

Good Luck and God Bless!

Hi Amy,

When I met and married my husband, I was very young and really didn't understand the Saudi culture and laws. All that mattered to me was being with the man I was crazy in love with - so I didn't over-analyze anything (actually didn't even think about it at all) and I can only imagine your dilemma as you struggle to make a conscience and informed decision on your future.

I've said it before (and my husband has even said it to me) - I got lucky.

Lucky that his personality didn't do a 180° on the transatlantic flight to KSA as is known to happen to Saudi men.

Lucky that he remained open-minded and was always willing to live in the US.

Lucky that my in-laws did and do accept me.

It's true, my story is the exception and not the norm.

Life in Saudi is very difficult for a woman, especially if you are living on an average income. If money isn't an issue however, life can be very pleasant. Friendships can be made, activities can be found - and vacations can be taken! )

On a side note, for the life of me I've searched my blog high and low and can't seem to find  where I said I wasn't honest about my experience with my in-laws. If you're referring to the post on February 6, 2009, yes, I was upset with my MIL over something but it had nothing to do with me, my nationality, my marriage, or my children. It was an issue that could have been as likely if my MIL was from Arizona or California! Please don't read too much into that. (And it's all been lovingly resolved.)

Even the best in-laws are bound to have some issues sometimes. In my marriage of (almost!) 21 years, I've never felt unwelcome or judged. On the contrary, many times I've been made to feel like the favorite daughter-in-law. Overall, my relationship with all my in-laws has been positive (with the exception of one SIL - and she's 'American' too - go figure!)

Have you had the opportunity to meet any of your potential in-laws, or at least speak with them on the telephone? What does your fiance say about his family, their personalities and traditions? Has he assured you that they would accept you, or does he evade the subject? What are your instincts telling you?

I wish the best for you, and pray you find your answer.

Lisa
www.theothersideofthefence.net

P.S. Thank you, Salman - you are too kind!!!

Its wonderful to hear some positive stories like what desertfences has shared. No doubt there muist be many more like her around. Most of the time we do hear the horros stories only and we know they are also true.

Good luck and God Bless

Hi Sourire,

sourire wrote:

He's the eldest son?   The family won't accept you!

sourire

So if a Saudi "husband to be" wasn't the eldest son, his marriage to a foreign lady would have a better chance to be approved by his family?
 
I was just wondering: in a Saudi family, what kind of extra responsibilities/obligations the eldest son has? Or the only son for that matter..

Thanks in advance for your response,
Val.

Hi Amy,

I am in the same situation as you. i met my fiance online a few months ago, and we have really hit it off. He is half arab and half british, i fell in love with his accent and just his genuine personality. He works in saudi arabia, and the laws and regulations are very stringent there, as he had explained to me. I am an asian american, grew up in california and very americanized. it has really made me think of how my life and my little ones life will be, if or when i decide to join him in saudi. He is muslim, he has never suggested that i convert, he did mention that it is something that he would prefer but its entirely up to me. i have met and spoken to members of his family via phone and skype. they seem to be very nice and his mother adores me and i love her as well. He is however very straight forward and a bit more authoritive with me than what i am used to . i believe i can manage, because in my previous marriages, i have always been the bread winner and had to take care of everyone. the trade off here is that my little one and i will be taken cared of and i will never have to work hard again, because he is blessed to have such a wonderful job in saudi. it is hard to believe that i am actually considering this life changing decision and it is very hard to tell my family that i will be living so far away. i have been researching like you online for life in saudi, and have found little bits of info here and there. i hope that in our journeys we will find our true happiness and listen to our hearts, its can be both exciting yet scary at times, we have to keep in mind that this is a different country, and we are different people coming into this country, so learning to adapt is key.

good luck and best wishes.

I think that you are bit diffirent from other americans

I also think truefriend put his foot in his mouth here, in his attempt to ingratiate himself to Lucy.

The thing is, truefriend, there are many of us Americans already here in KSA for the purpose of experiencing another culture and learning about other people.  I'm not here for the $$--I'm about breaking even with what I made at home.

Heres Susie's Story:

http://taraummomar.blogspot.com/2009/03 … rabia.html

Do not worry people used to love and marry each other since the creation of this earth and life.

I would suggest that you just read my quote

Be who you are. Do not panic. Human being can live in any spot on this earth. The secret key is adjusting process. Being patient is a vital role in enjoying life. I experienced the life from the very conservative community to the very and more than open communities.

hi,
I, read about your post, and i have several thing's to share,
i have a cousin ( she's Muslim) and marrying a Saudi Arabian, and staying in Riyadh , but right now she's planning to get divorced in Indonesia, in Indonesia Law both husband and wife could ask for divorced(they married in Indonesia), because her husband planning to get another wife, in Islam they're allowed to get married 3 times, without having permission from his first wife, and as any women in the Muslim country ( excluded Indonesia) women are consider a furniture. so they doest have the right to have an idea or opinions, my suggestion are : if you really love this man you should :
1. don't give up your USA nationality, because if you got problem in Saudi the only thing you could do is flee to your embassy
2. don't get married in Saudi Arabia, because, you became the property of your husband, and he's could do anything to you.including not allowed you back to states.get married by american law, don't get remarried in Saudi Arabian law.
3. be prepare with some cash in hand, my cousin had to flee to jakarta without anymoney in her hand, luckily we have relative in Saudi to help her.

Are marriages really made in Heaven, or maybe in the other place?

Basukarno wrote:

hi,
in Islam they're allowed to get married 3 times, without having permission from his first wife, and as any women in the Muslim country ( excluded Indonesia) women are consider a furniture. so they doest have the right to have an idea or opinions, my suggestion are

I am sorry to hear about your cousin and to say that you are ignorant because in Islam a man can't marry another woman without the permission of his wife and if he has more than one wife already he has to get permission from both the wives, and if doesn't do so then he is committing a sin by not following what Allah says in the Quran. Another thing, I had a cousin (girl) who was residing in Riyadh who was able to apply for divorce from her husband and ended up divorcing him, they were married in KSA too. So, yes women have the right to divorce in KSA; I don't know why your cousin wasn't able to.

It's not right to say that women are considered like a piece of furniture in ALL the muslim countries, that's just plain generalization and prejudice. There is good and bad everywhere on this earth. I lived in KSA for 14 years (born and raised there) and during my time there I never felt like a piece of furniture.

So for future note please keep prejudice comments to yourself.

Thanks,
Sadaf

Noweher in the Quran and Hadeeth have I seen any statement referring to PERMISSION...

please show me the reference

discussion re-opened on demand (sorry guys I was pretty tired yesterday)

ooh, interesting stuff..

I think life is what you make it. If you tell yourself it is good/bad then it will be. I am also an American who married a Saudi and now live in Riyadh. I never was upset about it all. I knew from the start he planned to come here and I still married him.

I think being with my husband is more important then anything. Sure there is a difference all countries are but I never did anything crazy and wild back home so what am I missing? Life is life everywhere.

If your a good person you will not have any problems no matter where you go. You will be able to find a NICE paying job here especially being an American teacher. But will he let you work? My husband will not allow me to work. So these are common things you need to ask pre-marriage. Contact me anytime.

MashaAllah, Umm Talal, Bfrilliant words spoken by a wonderful human being.... Am all with you

i want to say only one thing


if you are here in Saudi Arabi you are safe

if you are here in Saudi Arabi you are safe

You're not 'safe' anywhere, really.  There are violent, twisted individuals everywhere.  As we've discussed in another thread, I think what makes some of us vulnerable here is that we're obviously foreigners.

THAT said, I've never felt 'in danger,' per se .. but I do try my best not to put myself in such situations.

S7S wrote:

i want to say only one thing


if you are here in Saudi Arabi you are safe

Ooooohh.  Okay, I won't get really started.

1) Why was this topic re-opened?

2) If you are a Saudi in Saudi Arabia you may be "safe", the rest of us keep our heads up and our eyes open for a reason.

sadaf wrote:

Basukarno wrote:

hi,
in Islam they're allowed to get married 3 times, without having permission from his first wife, and as any women in the Muslim country ( excluded Indonesia) women are consider a furniture. so they doest have the right to have an idea or opinions, my suggestion are

I am sorry to hear about your cousin and to say that you are ignorant because in Islam a man can't marry another woman without the permission of his wife and if he has more than one wife already he has to get permission from both the wives, and if doesn't do so then he is committing a sin by not following what Allah says in the Quran. Another thing, I had a cousin (girl) who was residing in Riyadh who was able to apply for divorce from her husband and ended up divorcing him, they were married in KSA too. So, yes women have the right to divorce in KSA; I don't know why your cousin wasn't able to.

It's not right to say that women are considered like a piece of furniture in ALL the muslim countries, that's just plain generalization and prejudice. There is good and bad everywhere on this earth. I lived in KSA for 14 years (born and raised there) and during my time there I never felt like a piece of furniture.

So for future note please keep prejudice comments to yourself.

Thanks,
Sadaf

There is absolutely no stipulation, condition, or restriction in Shariah that a believer who is already married and wishes to take on a second wife, to seek or have the prior permission of the first wife. The one and only condition Islam lays upon the believer who wishes to exercise his lawful option of practicing polygamy, is to make sure that he does justice amongst his wives with his allocation of time and resources towards them.

i even heard that Nikah must be announced in the society the person is living in. Therefore, I believe it would be wrong to take a second wife in marriage without the first wife and/or the children knowing about it. if the first wife comes to know, you are dead AGAIN!!!

Worth being aware that if anything were to happen to your Saudi spouse while you were in the Kingdom, you would end up with his family as your legal guardians and those of your children.

I'm aware that there is an American citizen in Jeddah who has been stuck there for many years waiting for her oldest son to become old enough that he becomes his mother and siblings guardian.

Alethe, I think the woman named Monica Stowers is perhaps the woman you are referring to. She's American and married a Saudi man and the marriage soured and he took the kids back to the KSA although she had been granted custody in the US. The Saudi gov does not recognize the custodial grant by the US if the Saudi is male. If an American woman marries a Saudi man and then lives there, HE will have some rights there that she won't be used to giving.

It's a matter of reading up on what those rights and laws are, and how well you know this man and his family and his relationships with his family. Where will you really stand, over time, in relation to them? How long have you known him?  I understand the appeal of the exotic but sometimes the novelty wears off and then you are in a very different place with people whom you may not have a lot in common with...THINK long and hard about this b/c this marriage would not end well if it ends. If there are children, you are committing to a lifetime there...read up on Monica Stowers or Pat Roush's story of what happened to them and see what you think and then read the positive stories too. Is there some reason you must live there as opposed to here? Just asking.

One has to understand that all Arab society is based on a patriarchal system where the father has all rights over his kids more than the mother. When non Arab women do get into marital relationships with Arab men they need to understand and accept this situation so that they may be able and willing to face the repercussions that will ensue in the event of a separation.

it's all about what are you willing to sacrifice , typical question when you decide to marry !


marrying the same nationalty or living in wonderful country does not mean  happely ever after !!
its about mind set, future goals, love, sacrifice, and above all how will both of you to make it work

good luck, best wishes.

amyasb, don't marry a Saudi man, and don't come to Saudi Arabia.  I can't tell you how much you would regret it once you step on this desert sand!  If you come out of it even remotely sane, it will only be if you continue to persuade yourself that you are happy when you are really unhappy. Nothing is here as it is in the US, and it will not change in your lifetime.  The country is so constricting even for a Western, i.e. free woman, married to a Western man, i.e. someone who thinks it is OK for other men to see your face and shake your hand and let you walk alone on the street. There are transport, clothes, entertainment, socializing issues that are so debilitating at times, that I have to travel abroad just to feel normal again.  You might not have that luxury. When you are married to a Saudi, frequently you end up living with his family, so you compound your problem with the ever-seeing eyes of many in-laws. You can't go anywhere without a guardian.  This is their culture, women are to be kept out of trouble, because they can not think for themselves. The year on their calendar is 1431 - get the picture? You seem to be well educated and employed, do yourself a HUGE favor, skip this idea.  He is sweet now and I am sure showers you with expensive presents, but it will all change, more than it changes in any other marriage... None of the things he promises you will come to pass...

Hi 'say-no,'

This letter from the OP is ancient history so no worries for her. 

But for you, I think you have described yourself in this email?  Please PM me.

ooops.. you are a woman, aren't you?

What is it so  bad that the husband has rights in KSA? In america the woman usually has the custody rights and the government gives them too much power in divorce issues and money. Especially with the 50% divorce rate in the US So?

I notice you said your an "independent woman". I can guarantee that this western attitude of females in the US is not tolerated in SA. Any type of feminism propaganda is not allowed in SA and you will get the mutaween on your case if you act like a typical drunk rebellious western woman.

Most western women will not do well in SA because of their attitude. I experience the exact opposite. I went to the US for tempoary work and could not believe how the women acted in marriage towards the husbands. So it goes both ways. I would NEVER counsel a saudi man to marry a western woman, because they are rebellious and extremely demanding and swear allot. If they acted that way in my hometown the mutaween would put them in jail. So if you truly want to enjoy SA change your western attitude of being "independent", marriage is a give-take type deal, not 2 independent people. Muslim marriage is not like that. The wife must guard her modesty at all costs, not talk to other men, and can only leave the house with the husbands permission and with her marriage certificate. If you do something that shames yourself or you do something immodest you shame the WHOLE family. And if that happens you will be ostracized and your husband will have the right to beat you(if you first don't listen to being admonished). Secondly a wife must be obedient and meek to her husband. Something non-existant in most western marriages where the woman tends to be the emboldened one. I can guarantee however that if your bring your feminist western attitude to SA that they will not put up with it

Sorry if I seem bold. But its not how SA treats women, that is their religion and culture. Rather it is the western US feminist ideals and propaganda that constantly seek to demonize my hometown simply because we have conservative values.

lol why dont the two of you settle in Dubai?

Talwar, is it possible for you to say anything without making huge generalizations?

I obediently await your reply, on my knees.

*snicker*

Talwar wrote:

What is it so  bad that the husband has rights in KSA?

It's not bad at all.  What many people think is bad is that the husband has ALL the rights in the KSA and the wife has little to none.

Talwar wrote:

In america the woman usually has the custody rights and the government gives them too much power in divorce issues and money.

The first assertion you make is one of speculation, please provide supporting data.  While many women are granted custody, that is most often agreed upon by the divorcing parents.  Where it is not agreed upon then custody is generally shared.

Talwar wrote:

Especially with the 50% divorce rate in the US So?

"So?" is exactly the correct response to your fact.  Yes, there is a near-50% divorce rate in the USA (and in many other economically developed countries) but are you saying that's because women have rights there?  Hmmm...guess that means the rising divorce rates in Asia and even in KSA are directly dependent on a rise in the rights women in those countries are beginning to exercise?  Nope.  Nice try, though.

Talwar wrote:

Sorry if I seem bold.

I don't see your statements as bold.  I see them as a direct product of your culture.

Talwar wrote:

But its not how SA treats women, that is their religion and culture.

Amazingly there are many other countries in which Islam is the state-supported religion that doesn't prevent the female members of the society from enjoying certain rights.  It is here that the most egregious offenses of women's imprisonment are found.  That would cause a sociologist to suppose that it's not the religion, per se, that imposes the restriction, but if the culture uses their interpretation of the religion to do so, it's the culture imposing the restrictions.

Talwar wrote:

Rather it is the western US feminist ideals and propaganda

All hail the propaganda of freedom!  All hail the propaganda of choice!  All hail the propaganda of equality!  All hail the propaganda that humans are humans!  All hail the propaganda that the people of the world should live in light, not darkness!

Talwar wrote:

that constantly seek to demonize my hometown simply because we have conservative values.

Thank you for your opinion.  Excuse me, if I differ with it.