Tourist Visa Stays in Brazil - 180 days per year maximum

Hi William

I've read so much about this, can I ask how you are so sure you are correct in this?

Take the example of someone (me!) who was in the country for the full 180 days in a contiguous period.

Surely if the rule is "at no time during your present stay in the country you are permitted to exceed the 180 day per year maximum", then as long as I'm out for 185 days, at no point going forward in my stay will I exceed 365 days in one year.  This is because for each new day I stay in Brazil, one day 'drops off' the other end when counting backwards.

Could you please explain your source of information on this?  I have alot of money riding on this as I've already bought my flight and paid a deposit on my accommodation

Many thanks

My source of information is the Delegacia de Imigração (DELEMIG) at the Federal Police.

The computer system that (computerized) points of entry to the country use this method of calculation. Non-computerized entry points the confusion over the practice actually is the cause of many discrepancies and people are sometimes given less time to stay in the country others are given more than they are entitled to as a result.

The way it works is exactly as stated: Upon entering the country the computer counts back exactly 365 days and calculates the number of days (including day of entry and departure) of any previous visits during that period and subtracts that number from 180 to get the allowable number of days for the current stay. If you go back for an extension of your stay ('prorrogação de estado') the process is repeated on that date to determine the maximum number of days you can have your stay extended.

If you have already been in the country for the full 180 days within the year then you must be out of the country for 180 days just to set the count back to zero, from that point you accrue one day for each day that passes thereafter. In order to qualify for a full 180 days you must remain out of the country for 360 days (effectively one year from your departure).

During the period from 180 to 365 days, if you return to Brazil your stay would be limited to the actual number of days that you accrued. To be allowed the initial stay of the full 90 day (unextended) you would need to have been out of the country for 270 days. You would not be able to apply for an extension. From 270 - 360(365 effectively) you could get an extension of your stay for the actual number of days over the 270 you had been outside of Brazil.

The determination of number of days you are permitted to stay is based solely on date of entry. They calculate the maximum period of your initial stay (max. allowable 90 days) and that's what you get. The second calculation is made at the time you request any extension, the process then counts the present stay as well. Even though you are correct that one day drops off on the other end you don't gain anything because you've been in the country those 90 days. The system does NOT work on a calendar year basis as it once did quite some time ago.

That is exactly how the system works, if you wish further confirmation or clarification please contact the Departamento de Polícia Federal - Ministério de Justiça, Setor de Estrangeiros, give them the date of entry and departure of your previous visits witin the past 365 days from planned re-entry and the date when you plan to arrive, they will do the calculation for you and confirm the number of days. You will see that I am correct.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog

Thanks William

That's really bad news for me uuuuuuh.  Gosh what an illogical way of interpreting the rules.

Perhaps you would know, my 180 days that I stayed 6 months ago was on Work Item V visa, not as a tourist.  Any chance that could save me, that the time spent in Brazil on a work visa wouldn't count?

Thanks again

Sorry, I can't give you a definative answer on that one. Your best bet would be to contact the Consulate or the Polícia Federal directly explain the situation about the other visa, dates, etc., and your planned trip and ask them if the difference in visas works to your advantage. I really don't know and I've never had communications with anyone in a similar situation to give me information. Give them a call, and lots of luck!

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog

Thanks again.

I wonder if you know any phone numbers for the policial federal that would answer my questions?  My portuguese is so so.

I already queued for hours today in the consulate to get information about this, they told me to contact the federal police.  I asked a friend in Rio to call the federal police for me, they of course told him to contact the consulate!

That would be because the Federal Police are on strike and who your friend spoke to would have been a civilian contracted employee. I don't know if you would have any better luck by contacting the Regional Superintendency in São Paulo, but you might wish to try. Their number is (0xx-11) 3538-5000. You will still get to talk to a civilian but maybe one who is a bit better informed.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog

Dear Mr. Woodward,

Thank you for the very very useful info! I wanted to ask you if you could maybe confirm if I could already go back. I'll explain my situation.

I'm Dutch and don't need a tourist visa. I went to Brazil (Rio de Janeiro) on June 28, 2010 and returned 2 months later on August 28, 2010. Then I went again on October 13, 2010 and I stayed for some time, requested the PRORROGAÇÃO DE ESTADO and I got extension to stay until February 12, 2012. I've used all the 180 I was allowed to stay as a tourist in Brazil. 

Buttttttt... I stayed a little bit longer: 441 days too much!! So I've received a fine of 827,75 BRL which I need to pay the next time I'm going to enter Brazil. I have left Brazil voluntarily on April 28, 2012 and have already spent 190 days (counting today as well) outside of Brazil. That would mean that I've already gained 10 days, is that correct?

Right now I'm in the middle of the process of getting married with my Brazilian boyfriend (that probably explains why I stayed 441 illegally) and I'm planning to go back to Brazil on January 7, 2013, but I haven't bought a ticket yet.
You said that "Upon entering the country the computer counts back exactly 365 days and calculates the number of days (including day of entry and departure) of any previous visits during that period and subtracts that number from 180 to get the allowable number of days for the current stay."

Now I got a little bit confused because I've calculated 2 different things:

1. If I would go to Brazil on January 7, 2013 and the computer counts 365 days back and calculates how many time I stayed from (let's say) January 7, 2012 until the day I left Brazil (April 28, 2012), that would be 113 days. So I would have 180 - 113 = 67 days.

2. If I would go to Brazil on January 7, 2013 and (considering my situation) I've already spent more than 180 days outside of Brazil (255 days by the time it's January 7, 2013), my counter would be on 255 - 180 = 75 days.

It's not making a lot of difference 67 or 75 days, but I would like to know which one is the correct calculation!

I've called so many times to the federal police (and my Portuguese is excellent), and I think I've already heard 5 different versions of what to do, etc. I hope you can help me out a little bit!

Hi Katie,

According to the explanation that was given to me by the delegado who told me how the system works, the first calculation would be correct. You can imagine how much more confusing it is for me (a common person) when you found out from your phone calls even the Federal Police don't understand it.

On the bright side, maybe when you arrive they computer system will be off the air and the cop will have to calculate manually, he might even make the mistake and give you the 75 days!

Regarding the fine, it must be paid the moment you arrive. A Federal Police officer will escort you to the nearest Bank of Brazil to pay it or you will be put back on the plane home.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Dear Mr. Woodward,

Thank you for the quick reply!

I also have the following number for you: xx55 61 3365 1812. It's from the immigration department in Brasilia and they also helped me a lot.

About paying the fine, I know it must be paid the moment I arrive, but could you please explain a little bit how that goes? I know I have to pay it at the Banco do Brasil. I also know (from the phone number mentioned above) that I need to arrive on a workday (Monday til Friday) BEFORE the bank closes (from 9 AM to 5 PM) in order to pay it.
So I just read that you wrote that an officer will escort me to the nearest Banco do Brasil, but what is the best way to pay? I was thinking about bringing a little bit more than 827,75 BRL (let's say 900,00 BRL) to pay it in cash. Do you have any suggestions?

I have the original paper here from the fine (auto de infracao), mentioning the law number, the number of days (441) I stayed illegally, the fine I need to pay, etc. I will bring this with me when I'm going to Brazil next year.

And one more thing, I know that a lot of people stay a whooooleeee lot longer than I did, but could the 441 days that I stayed illegally make any problems for me to enter the country? I'm going to Brazil with my marriage certificate which should be ready by then and I also need to bring all my documents I need to apply for a permanent visa (all in my hand luggage of course). Could this, and the fact that I speak Portuguese fluently, help me to get "through"?

I know that these tricks won't help in any other (Western) country, but in Brazil you can sometimes get pretty far with a slick talk! I'm just afraid (especially in Rio) that someone will ask me for a payoff or something, I wouldn't know what to do in a situation like that!

Yours,

Katie

Hi Katie,

First of all the banks here in Brazil are open from 10:00 am to 4:00 pm so don't arrive late. The officer will escort you to the nearest Banco do Brasil, you present the document you have (ato de infração) and the teller will process your payment and issue a GRU - Guia de Recolhimento da União (receipt). Simple as that.

From all the information I have received from others who had overstayed visas and paid fines here it shouldn't have any effect on you re-entering the country. They may want to see a return flight ticket and want you to keep in closer contact since you had overstayed before. Especially given that you left Brazil voluntarily I don't think you will have any problems. If there was any major concerns they would simply have cancelled your visa before allowing you to leave Brazil.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Dear Mr. Woodward,

First of all, we need more people like you hahaha! All this is incredibly stressful, confusing and frustrating for me and I'm sure for a lot of people.

I was reading the other topics in the visa forum and I've read the personal experience of ddeleon88. I told you before that I've already heard different versions of the re-entering process, but what's funny is that one time I called to the federal police (at the Rio de Janeiro airport Galeao) and I had this lady on the other end of the line, telling me quite the same thing! I remember she told me: "seu prazo vai se renovar no dia que seu calendario comecou, entao no dia que voce entrou pela primeira vez da sua vida no Brasil" (in English: "your term (180 days) will renew on the day that your calendar started, so the day that you entered Brazil for the first time in your life.")
And when I told her that I've hired a Brazilian lawyer in Holland and that even she told me it's safe to go, because I've already passed the 180 days outside of the country, she told me: "fala a sua advogada que ela precisa ver a lei de estrangeiros." (in English: "tell your lawyer that she needs to check the law of the foreigners.")

So when I told my lawyer about it, she just laughed it off and told me that there is no such thing and that the woman on the phone (that was probably not a federal police officer) was poorly informed. But going back to ddeleon88's personal experience, and I really don't like to talk behind people's backs, but if everything is true, then how the F do the computers in Minas Gerais work?

My question in general is if this "rolling year" is really operating everywhere. I got really scared and nervous when this woman on the phone told me about this date someone entered Brazil for the first time, that it will depend all on that... And now again after reading the personal experience... It's hunting me like Jack Nicholson in the movie The Shining! I don't want to see Johnny upon my arrival

Hi Katie,

Sorry, I didn't realize that you're from Holland until now. So correct me if I'm wrong you are one of the fortunate few who doesn't require a 'physical' tourist visa. You get what we commonly refer to as an 'airport visa', your passport is simply stamped upon arrival in Brazil, is that right?

I'm not sure exactly when all the procedures changed regarding calculation of visa stays change, but it was quite some time ago that the adopted the new practice. They used to work on a calendar year in the calculation of stays for those who actually had the 'physical' visa and then moved to the rolling year system as I have outlined in the forum. I believe that under the old system they used the method described by your lady at the airport to calculate stays for those who had airport visas (citizens from countries exempt from tourist visas). So your lady might be correct the method for calculation of these stays may not have changed or it has changed and she simply does not know.

As I have pointed out, the system is so complicated that even the Federal Police themselves can't figure it out. If you ask ten different police officers you will probably get ten different answers. It's really that bad!

She was right about one thing - there really is a Lei de Estrangeiro (Lei 6815 de agosto 1980), but it mentions nothing about how the calculation of visa stays is done. So there you go! Talk to the cops, who should know and you just get half truths. And they wonder why foreigners get so stressed out, frustrated and angry with them.

The main problem is that you can go right to the top and you can't get a straight answer out of anybody in the Federal Police.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team.

Dear Mr. Woodward,

I called the federal police today and asked if they could check on the computer with my passport number, name, birthday, etc. if I could already enter. And the answer is yes, I already can. But I'm stunned by the fact that so many federal police officers don't know about this.

The law 6815 (detailed) is also written on the paper I received regarding the fine. As long as you have left the country voluntarily, you won't have any problems entering Brazil (after staying more than 180 days outside of Brazil and paying the fine).

Greetings!

Katie

Oh and about my 'airport' visa and passport being stamped upon arrival: yes, that happened each time I entered.

Hello,

Just an update on my Brazilian difficulties.

When I arrived in Rio, I got the usual airport stamp with no restrictions, so the full 90 days.  So... I think the illogical calculation outlined in your post is not correct, it just doesn't make any sense!  My presumption is that the the computer runs the calculation for every day of your stay.  And each extra day you stay, one day drops off at the other end.

Anyway, who knows the real answer, but I did not get 11 days your calculation would describe, I got 90!

Thanks
David

PS.  Like the Dutch poster, I'm also European and don't need a tourist visa.

PPS. For the benefit of anyone in a similar situation, I flew with Iberia and they wouldn't let me fly as my return flight was greater than 90 days.  Despite the fact that I can extend for another 90, up to 180 days.  Cost me 250 Euro in rearranged flights and a delay of 1 day to get around that one.  So book your return flight within 90 days if you're flying with Iberia (worst airline ever)

Hi dwest,

Like I told you, even the Federal Police aren't sure of the way to calculate visa stays. Each one does it differently.

With regard to your airline ticket, actually it's a trick the airlines all over the world use to suck extra money out of the travelling public. It has nothing to do with immigrations in any country. The airlines use it as an excuse to sell a ticket that the know you will have to modify and pay a healthy fee in order to do so. It sucks bigtime.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hi again dwest,

I know you're having difficulty understanding the system, it's confusing. I think where you are having problems is in understanding what is meant by a 'rolling year'. I will try and explain that in a different way which might help. Calculating visa stays IS NOT DONE BASED ON THE CALENDAR YEAR.

Ok here goes.....

Imagine you have a calendar that the first day of that year is your day of entry for example sake lets say it's May 14th, your year starts on May 14th and runs to May 13th of the following year.

So now you've got to dig out last year's calendar (first/last days of year still unchanged). On that calendar you have 90 days crossed off. Those are days you've been in Brazil in the past year from your date of entry. Now it gets complicated because it depends on when those 90 days fall on that calendar, but regardless of when they were in the previous 365 so you are only entitled to an initial stay of 90 days because that's all anyone gets. The extension is something else entirely.

Ok, so using your analogy that one day drops off from the other end for each day you're in Brazil, not only does that only work if your crossed off days began exactly on May the 14th the previous year, but you now ADD an X on the new calendar (this year's calendar) that gets counted in any future calculations so really nothing changes.

Now, imagine that the NEXT day EVERY day thereafter you're given a new calendar, but the first day of the year is today's date. All the crossed off days which represent not only the ones that haven't 'dropped off' the other end as you say PLUS all the days you have now been in Brazil get added to that new calendar. That's how it works. So if for examply your previous 90 day stay in Brazil began in mid-August of the previous year, then no days would even begin to drop off the other end as you put it, until you had been in Brazil for 90 days this time. Even then as one day drops off, one day just gets added on at the back end now.

So the rule they go by is essentially (using this example as an analogy) that at no time while you're here in Brazil can any one of those new calendars you will get each day can have more than 180 days crossed off. That's what a rolling year is...... essentially a new calendar every day.

Now you've had your 90 days this year, you now go back to the Feds to ask for an extension. The whole process starts all over again, they go back 356 days from that date, now that's last year's calendar, and they now count all the crossed off days on that calendar. So that's the 90 days you've just been in Brazil until today PLUS any of the other days that haven't dropped off. Then they subtract that number from 180 and that is the number of days they will extend your current stay.

It's a rolling BLOCK of 365 days that advances one day each day, the maximum number of days in that block one is allowed to be in Brazil is 180.

I hope this overly simplified and probably childish shounding explanation has helped you understand the system a little better.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hi William,  I'm still not sure you're correct, but it's fine I got my 90 days, so I'm happy for the moment :-).  I will be leaving Brazil end of December and returning in February.  If your calculation is correct I'll get about 60 days, if mine is correct, I'll get another 90, so I'll let you know!

To boil down our disagreement: you are saying it is not possible to stay for 180 days in brazil, leave for 185 days, return for 180 days, leave for 185, and so on.  I think you can!

I wonder if you know anything about the new rules for Shengen country citizens, that they can only now enter for 90 days in one year with no extension allowed?  Do you know does this apply to the UK and Ireland which are not in Shengen?

Hi William

Glad we could clear up our earlier language misunderstanding.

I have some information to add to the thread, it's of great relevance to Europeans and the Dutch poster above.

The rules have changed for Shengen countries (that is, most EU countries and many non EU European countries also.  Britain and Ireland are notable exceptions).  The rule is now 'you cannot stay for more than 90 days in any 180 day period'.  This means you CANNOT extend after 90 days.  As far as I can understand however, you CAN stay for 180 days in one year, but you MUST leave after the first 90 days and can only return 90 days later.  I don't know if this applies to UK and Irish citizens too, I'll try to find out.

This explains also why Iberia in Madrid denied me boarding!  By the new rules it is not possible to extend passed 90 days.  However they might have been wrong in my case as I'm Irish, so I've submitted a compensation claim with them.

Hi dwest,

Actually, now that you mention it I believe I saw something similar on either one of the consular or Polícia Federal websites.

I'm kind of getting the impression the rule applies to ALL of the countries that are exempt from the 'physical' visa, those that enter with a valid passport and get what we commonly refer to as an "airport visa" (stamped only).

The exact wording that they use is "not more than 90 days (consecutive) in any 180 day period. God, I can just imagine the confusion that one is going to cause when they can't even get the rules for visa countries straight in their heads! Yes, I agree that their intention is not more than 180 days per year, but their absolute inability to grasp the English language causes them to make these very ambiguous statements of their rules. Sometimes I think they only use Google Translator. Scary thought.

What I think has happened here is that they're trying to harmonize the rules here with the USA and other countries that are on Brazil's tourist visa exempt list. I know that in the USA it's 90 consecutive days from the date of your entry and the count actually continues if you pop out to Canada, Mexico or Bermuda for example for a short period and then return to the USA.

Just another aspect of the insane bureaucracy here that I will now have to check into more thoroughly.

Thanks for the info, it will certainly help lots of our members.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

hi everyone, i think i need some help. as everybody ( or almost everybody) i misinterpreted the rules in brazil as a tourist.
I am canadian on a double nationality of portuguese.
I came into the country with my portuguese passport. at the airport they give 90 days. i thought i could extend it today for another 90 days but i found that i cant. so now i stuck. i have a month left on my visa and wish to stay here. as my fiance is brazilian we trid to get married but we dont have enough time within a month to do so. the federal police agent suggested me to go out of the country to apply for a tourist visa but on my canadian passport. i need some help with that. any places recommended...argentina, paraguay? anybody knows how long it takes from abroad? if i go by car will the stamp my visa in the portuguese one that i went out of the country? or will it cause me problem and look like i overstayed?? hhhaaa help please!!

Hi Audrey,



On behalf of the entire Expat-blog Team and as the Brazil Animator, it's my great pleasure to welcome a fellow Canuck aboard. I hope your experience with the blog will be both enjoyable and informative.

Since you entered Brazil on your Portuguese passport you did not need a 'physical' visa. This is because it is one of the VWP (Visa Waiver Program) countries. You presented your passport and it was stamped by the Federal Police. This is what we commonly refer to as an "airport visa". The drawback to this is that it is ONLY valid for 90 days and cannot be extended, as you have already found out.

Had you applied for a tourist visa as a Canadian citizen and entered on your Canadian passport you would have been able to extend the visit to a maximum of 180 days in a 'rolling' year.

If you leave Brazilian territory and present your Portuguese passport (which you must since that's the one you entered with) that's the one that gets the exit stamp, so no problem whatsoever there.

Neither Paraguay nor Argentina require a tourist visa for Portuguese citizens (i.e. holders of Portuguese passports). You will require only your passport and identity card. Again with this visa waiver entry, it's only good for 90 days and can't be extended just like here in Brazil. If it takes longer than that to obtain a tourist visa on your Canadian passport, which I doubt it will, then your only option would be a few weeks before your 90 days are up, using your Portuguese passport go to the other country, then return just in time to pick up your Brazilian visa.

As you can see from other postings on this topic the calculation of visa stays in Brazil is very confusing, so much so that even the Federal Police often can't get their heads around it, so I wouldn't be able to say with any certainty that if you came back into Brazil using a tourist visa and Canadian passport, that you would be able to extend that stay beyond 90 days or if the previous stay on the Portuguese passport would cause problems there. Obviously you would most certainly be able to come back for the 90 day stay without any problems.

Hopefully all this would allow sufficient time to get the wedding date set, file all the necessary documents and get hitched to your Brazilian fiancee within that 90 day period. Once married you then apply for a permanent visa "com base em cônjuge brasileiro" and once the application is filed you are legally permitted to remain in Brazil and even work until the process is completed.

If you need any further information please feel free to ask, if there's anything of a personal nature you don't want to discuss in the open forum my may of course send me a private message. Good luck, keep in touch and please keep me informed of your progress and anything else that might be of help to our other members in similar situations.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hey wjwoodward!  Thank you for replying so quicky , i belive you help a lot of people. We are thinking about going to puerto igazu , in argentina, and apply there on my canadian passport. I saw a few post of people that went there , saying the visa was an average issued within 24h. I do hope its the sme for canadian. I was also wondering if i go to argentina lets says for a week but they dont give me my visa, when i go back in brazil ,if i didnt stayed for the whole 90 days, these 7 days outside , do i get them back or loose them?                                Also , foe me in order to get married here, i need to get all my papers, and get them translate, once that is done we can get a date to get married in only 30 days. But if we start doing that, and my visa expires in mthe meantime, is it considering as overstayed, is it causing any problem, or because im on the process of getting married it will be fine?                                                                                                                                           Thank you again !

Hi Audrey,

I think that most countries on the VWP (Visa Waiver Program) work in pretty much the same way as the USA does with their 90 day VWP visitors, there the clock starts running the day you enter the country and even if you take a quick trip to Canada, Mexico or Bermuda for example and then return to the USA afterward, the clock continues to run and those days are still counted even though you are actually out of the country.

Sorry I can't give you better news, but that's the way it appears at least. That was why I suggested that any travel, out of or back into Brazil be done a few weeks before the 90 days expires.

If you are going to go to Paraguay anyhow, why don't you check out how quickly you could get married there? You could probably get married quite quickly and then your husband could apply for the Paraguay Marriage Certificate be recognized and transcribed in the Consular Cartório to be legal here. You could then apply directly for your permanent visa com base em cônjuge brasileiro.
Check the following link: http://www.portalconsular.mre.gov.br/mu … -casamento

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Dear Mr. Woodward,

Wow.. just.. wow.. So everything I had figured out has already been changed. I hope you can get more information about this. I just read it on the official government website of Holland but it doesn't say much about it. It only says that a tourist can stay 90 days per 180. It's not possible any more to extend 90 days with another 90 days. Now all that will not be my problem because I'm almost "finished" marrying my Brazilian boyfriend, so once I'm in Brazil I'll apply for a permanent visa.

What has scared me is the new system. I think what a lot of people will want to know is when you get a fine for staying illegally (after 90 days now?) and what happens to the rolling calendar system.

I saw you were comparing it against the USA VWP, and I know that what you wrote are only your thoughts, but I didn't really get the description of the program. Does the VWP mean that the rolling calendar doesn't exist any more? Could you please explain the VWP a little bit? I know that there are chances it will be completely irrelevant as there's still not enough info available about this new visa program, but I think it's good to know to mentally prepare myself (again!).

Thanks in advance!

Katie

Hi Katie13,

The "rolling year system" applies to non-VWP citizens and is still in effect. Non-VWP countries require a 'physical' visa that is issued by the Brazilian Consulate in their country of origin. This is the (tourist) visa that permits 180 days per 'rolling' year. How and when those days are used is unimportant, provided that at no point during any given stay the individual is permitted to have been in Brazil for more than 180 days during that floating block of time.

Citizens of VWP countries receive an entry visa on their date of disembark in Brazil. That will be the date used for calculating their stay. They are permitted an non-extendable 90 day stay at which point they must leave Brazil.

VWP citizens are permitted 90 consecutive days in the 180 day period from their date of entry. Essentially they still are permitted to be in Brazil for 180 days per year, however it is not consecutive. Effectively, it's 90 here, 90 away, 90 here, 90 away.

As far as the fine goes yes, for VWP citizens who overstay the 90 days a fine will apply. It will be duly noted in their passport and should it not be paid upon leaving Brazilian territory then it will have to be paid immediately upon their return. Generally the procedure is that upon arrival if a fine is payable an agent of the Federal Police will escort the individual to the nearest Bank of Brazil where it must be paid. The bank issues a GRU and upon presentation at customs and immigrations the entry visa stamp will be added to the passport. Should the individual be unable or unwilling to pay immediately presumably they would be put back on the aircraft they came on or on the first available flight back to their country of origin without any recourse.

Yes, you are correct in thinking that once you've married your Brazilian boyfriend and apply for your permanent visa, you will be permitted to remain in Brazil and to obtain a time-limited work permit (Carteira de Trabalho) until such time as the process is completed.

I trust that this has answered your questions.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Dear Mr. Woodward,

Thank you for the info! It's very useful and helpful, as always! Thank you so much.

So the "rolling year system" is still in effect, just not any more for the non-VWP countries (from which Holland is one of them). I have just a few other questions, to get a little bit more familiar with this new (or old?) system:

1. What happens if you stay longer than the 90 days in Brazil? Do they ad up to the 90 days you need to stay outside of Brazil? For example: staying 110 days in Brazil (20 days illegally), what happens then, except for the fine you receive for the 20 illegally stayed days?

2. When does someone's calendar start? Will it be the first day of your entrance of the first time someone EVER entered Brazil and do they count back 365 days from that day? Or they count 365 days back from the day of new entrance (like how they do with the "rolling calendar")?

3. Once you enter Brazil, will the "clock" of the 90 days continue ticking even if you'll not use all of the 90 days? (Like the USA)

I'm confused about my own situation now, because I ended up in the middle of the old and the new system! When I left Brazil on 28 April 2012, I was still in the "floating block of time" or "rolling calendar" system. Including today, I've passed 224 days outside of Brazil, which would allow me to stay (224-180 = ) 44 days according to the "rolling calendar" system. Could you please advise me what will happen now in my situation?

I'm sorry, I know I ask a lot!

Yours,

Katie

Hi again Katie,

The whole issue of visas here in Brazil is so absurdly confused that I don't think anyone can answer the questions you've posed, I know I certainly can't.

The Feds can't get things straight in the simplest situations so I would expect that situations like you describe would be impossible to predict.

Like their confusion over the traditional "physical" tourist visas the Federal Police don't seem to know if they start counting from your "first ever" entry date or "current" entry date. I've heard statements from the Feds for both.

I don't think that anyone can say what will happen in a situation of someone from a VWP country overstaying the 90 day visa, other than the application of the fine. My take on the situation is that it probably won't be handled much differently than it is for someone from a non-VWP country (i.e. dropping a tiny pebble in the ocean will make more waves).

Whether or not that overstay will only extend the number of days you must be out of Brazil in order to come back, yes and no. Think about it this way...

Regardless of the nature (VWP /non-VWP) of the tourist visa, nobody is legally permitted to have been in Brazil for more than 180 days at any time during their stay. This NORM/RULE is applied to all tourists so essentially you're still looking at some sort of 'rolling year' situation in any case because they have added the "in a 180 day period". To my way of thinking it looks like they are going to strictly enforce a 90 in, 90 out, 90 in, 90 out kind of system which makes a lot of sense when you consider how simpleminded they all seem to be. I think effectively it will prolong the absence or cut short the 90 day entitlement of the next stay.

Regarding your present situation, again hard to say. My guess is that everything before is out the window. You will start from square one now. It's quite likely that you'll be given the 90 days under the new system. I'm almost positive that what is going to happen in practice at any port of entry in the future is that the immigrations officer will have two stamps, one for VWP passports which will state clearly it is valid for ONLY 90 days from that date. He/she's going to have another stamp for non-VWP passports and only those will be entered into the computer system to calculate stays. You've got to understand the Brazilian work ethic in any public service position, they will only do the absolute minimum they must do and nothing more.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Well, I'll let you know how everything went in January 2013 when I'm going to Rio. I think I'm going to give up this never ending search for answers.

I wanted to ask you if you could confirm one more doubt I have: IF the feds are going to count from my "first ever entrance" date, which is June 28, they will count 365 days back from 28, 2013, is that correct?

I think it's also good for the readers to know that your passport must be valid for 6 month upon departure. A question I get a lot.

Katie,

Your guess is as good as mine, on that one. It's really a toss up! I'd say if your passport has any OTHER Brasilian visa stamp in it, then maybe they will use the first entry date they find. If it hasn't got any pre-existing entry visas then most likely they'll use the date of your current entry as your start point.

One thing I've learned about Brazil in the eleven years I've lived here is that it is useless looking for answers. Even if you're fortunate enough to find one (extremely rare) they probably will be completely wrong or won't make any sense whatsoever.

Just try asking a Brazilian for directions, you ask 10 different people and you'll get 10 completely different answers (all wrong) or "I don't know".

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

So here's the new law for EU citizens (the 90 in 180 day rule): http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 009:EN:PDF

It explicitly states that it does NOT apply to the UK and Ireland, so I presume that leaves me in the old 180/365 rolling calendar rule.  But who knows?  I suppose I'll print out the law and bring it with me just in case!  I'm leaving Brazil on December 23rd and returning February 16th.  I anticipate if your description is correct William that I'll get about 40 days on arrival, though the way I think it should be calculated I would get 90 days.  Either way works for my travel plans anyway.

Hi dwest,

They're so totally screwed here that I doubt even printing off the law will do any good! Those buggers will probably argue with you that the copy didn't come from the DOU (Diário Oficial de União). LOL.

Good luck with your trip, hope you get more than the 40 days, keep your fingers crossed. I think that works just about as well as the idea about printing off the law (also a great idea BTW).

Keep us posted on how you make out

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hi dwest,

Thanks for the link to the EU / Brazil legislations it is very helpful.

I've just looked at it and I can imagine that it's going to cause some serious problems here in Brazil in its interpretation and application. Because of the fact that the Brazilian government is traditionally pathetic at understanding the (contextual) meaning of English phrases and that when translated into Portuguese it will lose its contextual meaning and thus become extremely vague.

In Article 5 - Duration of Stay:  The use of the term "following date of first entry into the territory of the country" clearly indicates that the date would be of that particular (current) entry. This is because visas permit "multiple entries". You could enter Brazil, pop out to a neighbor country and return. In its wording this document is quite clear that therefore the clock would continue to run even if you left Brazil for a short period and then returned (This is exactly the same way as the USA does it).

Once translated into Portuguese "a partir de data da primeira entrada no território do país" this is going to create no end of problems because while that is the literal translation this is in fact exactly opposite to the spirit and intention of the English document. By leaving the word "primeira" in the text it will indicate to the Brazilian mindset that they are clearly talking about the "first ever" date of entry and not what is intended by the text. To maintain the spirit and context the word "primeira" would of necessity need to be removed from the Portuguese language translation. I have not seen that version, but I highly doubt it has been removed since many translators would not understand the subtle differences in semantics.

Yikes........... troubled times ahead methinks!

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Dear William! I checked many web sites about this, even talked to the Brasilian consulate at my country. Are you sure that if I "illegaly" overstay my 180 days, the worst headache I can get is a fine? I am not going to be hold in jail for days, miss my flight, etc...? Do you have information about the maximum of the fine?I heard this horror story!
Thank you very much in advance,
Sincerely, Amy

Dear Katie13!
Can I ask you a few questions please? Did you experience any inconvinience when left the country after 4 houndred some days? Was catching your flight on time in risk? Did they just give you the fine and the stamp in your passport or it was a big hassard?
Thanks a lot!
Amy

Hi amyamy,

Actually if you check the Visa Waiver Program as a citizen of the Netherlands you are permitted to be in Brazil for 90 days consecutively. You must then leave the country. You are permitted a total of 180 days per year, but they may not be consecutive as with those who require a 'physical' visa document.

The potential problems of overstaying your visa won't happen here in Brazil. Here it is "an administrative infraction" subject to a fine which is approximately R$8,00 per day (about $4 USD). Nothing else happens here, no jail, no being detained and you don't even have to pay the fine right away, it must however be paid upon re-entry to Brazil or you don't get back in. That's it!

The problem is that your passport gets stamped by the Federal Police noting the visa infraction and pending fine. This can cause no end of headaches should you apply for a visa for some other country or try to enter a Visa Waiver Program (VWP) country using your passport. Other countries may use the Brazilian infraction as justification to deny a visa application or in the case of VWP countries deny entry to the country.

The other problem here in Brazil is that by law everyone must carry identification with them at all times, for foreign nationals that means their travel documents too. You can be asked to produce identification by the police at any time, no reason must be given, you are obligated to produce documents. Should you overstay your visa and a police officer demands to see your ID they notify the Federal Police immediately. At this point the Federal Police will issue an order that you voluntarily leave the country within 8 days or face possible deportation procedure. I don't know how somebody could enjoy their stay in Brazil if they constantly have to be looking over their shoulder, or worry about being asked for ID.

You really need to think about it like throwing a pebble into the water. It only makes small ripples close by, however they get much bigger the farther they spread. What may look like a little wave where you are may develope into a Tsunami elsewhere. Think well before you undertake such a risky action.

This is why I consistently advise everyone who asks to avoid overstaying their visas. Should they choose to ignore the advice they do so at their own risk and should be prepared to accept any consequences that may follow, both in Brazil and abroad.

I must ask you, is the reason you are thinking of overstaying your visa REALLY worth the potential problems? I doubt it. Should you need to discuss your particular situation and get further advice please feel free to send me a private message. I will give you the best advice and information I possibly can.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

@Amyamy

Hi! Nope, no problems upon leaving Brazil. I arrived a little bit earlier, made the check-in, went to the customs, told them I had overstayed, they confirmed it by checking my passport. A federal police officer was called, he took my passport and told me to wait a few minutes, came back with a paper saying I had overstayed, the amount of days and fine, my passport number and name and they were all really friendly! Then I passed the customs, receiving a big, ugly stamp in my passport and that was about it. It all took about 20 min.

I'm going back to Brazil in 1 week, after having stayed almost 9 months out of Brazil, so my term should be around the 70 days, which I will receive after paying my fine before passing the customs. I'll leave a message letting everybody know how it all went, how many days I got, etc.

@wjwoodward

Hi!! I'm going there without printing the GRU to pay my fine after all. I called again and they told me they'll make one right there for me. On Saturday, January 12 I'll leave a message.

Dear Katie13! Thanks for the fast reply! I am kind of relived Also, you never been id-ed during your stay? Do the police stop random people to check their identity? Or you need to get into trouble for that? Did you depart fron Rio, or other airport?
Thanks, Amy

Dear Amyamy, I'm kind of wishing you'll not make my mistakes, because as wjwoodward says, the headache, stress and consequences aren't worth it, even though nothing bad has happened to me, it could always happen to another!!

But here are my answers to your questions: I've never been halted by the police. Also: you receive the stamp of infraction in your passport upon leaving the country, so even if the police halts you and ID checks you while you're still in Brazil, there won't be any stamp!

The "normal" police will forward you to the federal police, they take care of problems with/ of foreigners. If you overstay and want to pay your fine before leaving, the federal police will give you a few days to leave the country voluntarily.

I went to Rio international airport Galeao and I've left from there. I'm going there again in a week!

Dear Katie13! This is such a big dilemma! I am planning to stay for one year. After that I plan to come home, get back to work. Probably I won't return any time soon. Therefore what hapoens after doesnt really bothers me. I am just afraid to be ID-ed and being sent home