Anybody living in Vilcabamba or Loja?

Waynecbyrd, a new member living in Los Angeles, is planning an exploratory trip to find out which Ecuador places might be best for his and his wife's horticultural/agricultural plans.

They would consider buying land at 4-7,000 feet altitude in an area with good water resources, near enough to a town to build quality relationships with others.

Vilcabamba and Malacatos are among the towns on their short-list.

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Vilcabamba has plentiful rainfall and is famous for having some of the best growing-soil in the world.

The area is known as the Valley of Longevity.

Vilca may have the highest percentage of English-speaking Expats of any pueblo in Ecuador.

I reposted you to this thread to avoid the intro-thread limitations and to give your post exposure to Susan F., who lives near Vilca and may wish to provide some guidance.

cccmedia in Quito

ccmedia pretty much covered most of the positive about living in the south. Because Southern Ecuador was long the poorest part of the country, most farmers couldn't afford to use fertilizers or insecticides thereby leaving much of the local soil in a pristine state. There are many organic expat farmers in the area as well as an organic market on Saturdays.

Because I prefer my life in the country, I only go into town a couple of times a week. Monday - Wednesdays are pretty slow - except for the expats who fill the bars, but things pick up on Thursday - Sunday when many people from Loja come down for the better weather and a weekend of fun.

The extranjeros who do live here are a very international set. Along with North American, we have people from Italy, the Netherlands, France, Russia, Germany. Hungary, Cuba, many South American countries, India, Denmark, Hong Kong - you name it.

dear Susan F, i am very much interested to setting my rest of life in Ecuador ,but i need a job opportunity too.i am  a well seasoned person  in building design and very good execution work, 26 years of experience in this field..pl. inform me is there is any possibility in this field. with best regards Babu S.

Susan,  Which area do you think is safer for a single mother with young child?  Cuenca or Vilcabamba?  Also, which one has better access to truly organic foods (by truly I mean, not just certified, which I don't think  they do there, but no GMOs, not chemical fertilizers and pesticides, and only grass fed animals and animal products...)?  Thanks, Kelly

Organic Mom,

Because I have not deal with such issues in Cuenca, I can't advise you about that location.

I do know, however, that there are many women raising their children on completely organic diets here in Vilca.

The biggest thing to be aware of when you decide to move to Ecuador is to be sure you have enough money to keep you funded for the first year. There will be many things you will need to become settled here, and most people seldom budget themselves enough to make it for the first 365 days. Food is inexpensive, as are all utilities, but anything made abroad is outrageously expensive, and used items from this category are, too.

Hey Joseph thanks for such a detailed post. I will be visiting Loja in November and would love to meet up for lunch if you are available.

Thanks CCMedia!!! I appreciate you.

Thanks for your post Susan. What do you see as the major differences between Vilcabamba and Malacatos? It appears from afar that the land costs are lower in Malacatos.

Thanks.  How are the rents there?  And are there any bilingual schools there?

The Malacatos market is less expensive than in Vilca. For example, if a large head of broccoli costs .75 in Malacatos, it will likely cost $1 in Vilca.

There are certainly more expensive rents in Vilcabamba, but there are also very affordable ones as well. Malacatos rents are usually less expensive buy fewer in number.

I hope this helps!

The school situation in both Mala and Vilca do not have many bilingual choices. There is one private bilingual school in Vilca called Escuela La Calandria. I believe the tuition is about $75/mo. Other people either send their children to the local pubic schools or home school. The BEST local school, however, is located in Malacatos. I say this because both English and IT are taught there. I don't know of any school in Vilca that teaches both.

As a seasoned English teacher, I can tell you that if your children are still young, they would be able to easily assimilate and learn Spanish quickly in a non-bilingual school. The earlier they are immersed, the more quickly they will learn!

Do Vilcabamba and Malacatos differ in any other ways? Thanks for your responses.

Waynecbyrd wrote:

Do Vilcabamba and Malacatos differ in any other ways?

Do you want to be around a lot of Gringos, or mostly Ecuadorians?

As mentioned, Vilcabamba may have more Gringos per capita than any other place in Ecuador.

This means more English is spoken in the stores ... more Gringo-friendly events being offered ... more Gringo visitors in town at any time.

Malacatos is not like that.  If you want your family immersed in español to the max, Malacatos will likely be a better choice.  Also, the few-Gringos factor is probably a main reason for what Susan said about prices -- you'll get more for your dollar in Malacatos.

Although that probably holds true for land prices, don't buy or build on property in either town during your first year in Ecuador.

Check altitudes for a better fix on the weather.  As a rule, the lower the altitude, the warmer the weather.  But keep in mind that altitudes vary within the Vilcabamba Valley.

cccmedia in Quito

Culturally, there is a big difference. Vilcabamba is smaller than Malacatos and has a much higher number of expats. There are many more cultural events in Vilcabamba and a thriving art community. There are over 50 restaurants (including many vegetarian), more tourism activities (horseback riding, hiking, etc), an organic market and a French bakery - all of the things that Westerners like.

Malacatos, while a much larger town, has fewer of the above. Most expats I know tend to live on the outskirts of Malocatos, and there is less of a centralized expat community. There are also more shops there (an auto supply shop where I buy Castrol for my truck), and it is where the only local gasoline station is located.

I'm not certain I answered your question very well, so if you have questions, please let me know.

Susan F. wrote:

Malacatos, while a much larger town, has fewer of the above. Most expats I know tend to live on the outskirts of Malacatos, and there is less of a centralized expat community. There are also more shops there (an auto supply shop where I buy Castrol for my truck), and it is where the only local gasoline station is located.

Susan, this citation seems to say that the Malacatos gasoline station is the only gas station in the Vilca-Malacatos area.

Is that what you meant to say?

How many gas stations are there in Vilcabamba?

cccmedia in Quito

There ISN'T a gas station in Vilcabamba. We drive to Malacatos for gas.

I know, right?

Susan F. wrote:

There ISN'T a gas station in Vilcabamba. We drive to Malacatos for gas.

I know, right?

En absoluto -- you would know.

It's just surprising since Malacatos is 15 minutes from Vilcabamba.  Any Gringo drivers in Vilca better keep an eye on the gas gauge.

cccmedia in Quito

Susan F. wrote:

There ISN'T a gas station in Vilcabamba. We drive to Malacatos for gas.

I know, right?

Okay. The NEXT person coming on this forum looking for a business opportunity in Ecuador gets this hot prospect! 

Thank you everyone for your responses. How far of a car ride is it from the centro area of Malacatos to the main strip in Vilcabamba? Also is there a specific night of the week in Vilcabamba where many expats get together? I want to meet as many people as possible when I visit in November. Also do any of you have any hotel or guesthouse suggestions?

I've made it in my truck to the gas station coasting on fumes before...many people keep several gallons on hand in case of emergencies.

Waynecbyrd, I honestly have never timed it, but I figure the drive is about 10-15 minutes.

The evenings are mostly happening on Thursday-Sunday nights. Those are the nights when Lojanos begin to arrive for a weekend in the country.

There are a huge number of hostals and hosterias in the area. Costs can vary between about 8.50 for a dorm up to $30-$40 for full rooms. Also, you can often find people offering small guests houses for rent by the night.

If you want specific suggestions, please message me.

SawMan wrote:

Susan F. wrote:

There ISN'T a gas station in Vilcabamba. We drive to Malacatos for gas.

Okay. The NEXT person coming on this forum looking for a business opportunity in Ecuador gets this hot prospect! 

In case you needed it, this constitutes more proof that Texans are quick on the trigger !

Thanks to Susan, we discover that Vilcabamba, Ecuador, is a gas-station-free zone, and SawMan is right on it with this new-business concept.

We can't just bury such a concept in this Vilca-Loja thread.  Ipso facto, I have created a new thread titled "Business Opportunity of the Week: A Niche in Gringo-Rich Vilcabamba."   To navigate over there, enter Business Opportunity of the Week into the searchbox atop this thread and then click on the search icon to the right of the box.

cccmedia in Quito

Interesting post about Lojanos coming to Vilca for weekends.  Why is Vilca such a popular spot for Lojanos?  Also, are rental opportunities better in Malacatos....mostly internet advertised, or more word-of-mouth?  Thanks!

ccmedia, you crack me up!! Love it!!

Loja has, simply put, cold, rainy and yucky weather right now. While it is the dry season in Vilca and Malacatos, Lojanos are wearing coats and plugging in heaters. With that said, however, it is green all year while Vilcabamba is just getting ready to green up again. Also, many Lojanos just want to get away for the weekend, and because it is a relatively conservative, Catholic community, there are very few restaurants and store open on Sunday. So, they load up to enjoy better weather, eating out, going to spas, and, basically, chilling out (as in "chevere" - be cool, to chill out).

Most rentals in Vilcabamba get posted on local bulletin boards. In Malacatos, most are found by word of mouth.

Good point, ccmedia. I live only about 12 minutes outside of Vilcabamba proper, and the temperatures in our barrio are usually about 5 degrees F warmer.

Do you think it's safer in Malacaos or Vilcabamba or Cuenca for a single mom?  And, I hear you don't really need a car in Cuenca, would you say that about Vilca too?

Susan F. wrote:

cccmedia, you crack me up!! Love it!!

Glad to do anything I can to promote getting a gas station for our brothers and sisters in the Vilcabamba-Santorum area.

cccmedia in Quito

I have never worried about safety where I am. I am a founder of the local animal rescue group, Ayuda Mascotas Ecuador, and, because of this, I have 6 dogs! In truth, the BEST thing a person can do for security in town or in the country is to have a good watch dog.

With that said, however, there have been two kidnappings in the area in the last few years. As well, there are sometimes break-ins in town. However, members of the local community also stage their own "Neighborhood Watch" sometimes.

Malacatos recently had the gas station and local bank co-op robbed. The thugs were all caught further down the road, and most were local kids.

It's important to remember that Southern Ecuador has historically always been the poorest part of the country, and, as everywhere in the world, poverty breeds discontent. However, in comparison to Loja, Vilca and Malacatos are, in my opinion, much safer options.

As for a car, if one lives in Vilca, there is no need for a car. If one lives in the country, there are busses on a set schedule for about a $1 a ride. However, I wanted more independence and bought a vehicle.

Malacatos, however, is much more spread out than Vilca. But most areas of both towns can be accessed by a $1.25 taxi ride.

Thanks Susan.  I'm 99% sure I'm moving to EC within a year, but frankly, hearing about the break-ins and kidnappings throws me into a tailspin of doubt every time.  Do the apartments in Vilcabamba have the cement walls and iron fences, and the bars on the windows like in Cuenca?  Are there any gated communities or condos with security like in Cuenca?  I plan on moving there with a positive attitude, not expecting to be robbed, but at the same time, I need to take precautions to feel safe.

OrganicMom wrote:

hearing about the break-ins and kidnappings throws me into a tailspin of doubt every time.  Do the apartments in Vilcabamba have the cement walls and iron fences, and the bars on the windows like in Cuenca?  Are there any gated communities or condos with security like in Cuenca?  I plan on moving there with a positive attitude, not expecting to be robbed, but at the same time, I need to take precautions to feel safe.

I'm a native New Yorker and lived on the Upper West Side throughout my 30s.  As a New Yorker yourself, you know that crime goes on all the time somewhere in New York City.

If you wait until you find a place to re-locate that has no crime, you'll never do it.

There are ways to reduce your exposure to it, and you can find them through the searchbox-method on this forum's threads.

No one can promise you perfect safety and a crime-free existence in Ecuador, no matter how many bars there are outside your windows.  The same can be said for any town and city in the world.

Don't let two previous incidents of crime involving others .. stop you from moving to a great place.

cccmedia in Quito

I can only tell you this, organicmom, the percentage of crimes here are much, much less than in the US. Because we are such a small community, we ALL are aware of safety and know everything that goes on, and I believe this actually lowers the possibility of crimes. In my barrio, everyone knows everyone. No one can walk down our road and not be noticed.

Most people I know in Vilca simply have locking doors. Some in town have bars on the windows, and others do not. Above Vilca, in the area of Mollepamba, there are large, gated homes, but they are not the norm.

Just before I arrived, there had been a rash of robberies, and I, too, felt very concerned what I might walk into when I moved to EC. So, I brought a long a complete video security system and a complete set of window and door locks. 

After 2 months in my home, I sold my security system and stopped using my interior window and door locks. I did this because having them only reminded me to be fearful. I feel safe where I am. I have a yard with a metal gate and plants along chicken-wire fence-line provide my privacy. I have a driveway and keep my truck locked...but there is no wall or outer gate to my driveway.

If you want a gated community, there is the Hacienda de San Joaquin. But I can also tell you this: living in a gated community is relatively safe, but you will only meet the Ecuadorians who work there. You will not have a very day-in and day-out connection with the locals.

As for Cuenca, I am not an expert on much of anything there. Maybe there is a forum for Cuenca?

ccmedia's words are spot on!

"No one can promise you perfect safety and a crime-free existence in Ecuador, no matter how many bars there are outside your windows.  The same can be said for any town and city in the world.

Don't let two previous incidents of crime involving others .. stop you from moving to a great place."

Ecuador has provided me a place to live where the water and air are clean, the people friendly and kind, and the country open to change and innovation. Living here is a dream come true for me.

Cccmedia, I don't think my concerns about safety will stop me from moving there.  I just want to know what kinds of precautions I can take or what I should bring (like motion detector lights, window/door alarms, etc.).  I lived in NY most of my life, but I lived in a relatively small, safe city upstate, and never really even thought about crime.  We would leave our house in the morning, as kids, and be gone all day (except coming back for lunch and dinner), and my mother didn't even know where we were half the time.  Besides, the way things are going in the US, I feel Ecuador will be the safer choice, especially in the long run.

Susan F. wrote:

While it is the dry season in Vilca and Malacatos (September 1st), Lojanos are wearing coats and plugging in heaters. With that said, however, it is green all year (in Loja) while Vilcabamba is just getting ready to green up again.

On a different thread ostensibly about Internet speeds, new member Wayne C. Byrd of Los Angeles wanted to know when is the dry season in Vilcabamba?

The citation above from Susan F. in early September sheds light on that issue.  Perhaps she would like to update us as to what are the specific dry months in the period just ending.

cccmedia in Quito

Global warming is real here in Southern Ecuador, and, as a result, the seasons are changing a bit.

The original dry season usually arrives in June with warmer temperatures in the Vilca area, sometimes as high as the low to mid-80s in the outlying areas. Then, "el viento", very strong winds, usually arrives in July and last through August. Then, in September, temperatures fall, and a period between September to late November, brings beautiful, springtime weather to the area until the rains begin in December.

This year, however, was a bit different. The high winds and higher temperatures up to the mid-80s began in June. The winds continued until abut mid-July leaving us the warmer weather without the wind. August was also warmer with winds on and off through the month.

Unlike other areas in the world where heat is often accompanied by humidity, this is not true for the dry season in Southern Ecuador. When the temperatures rise in the warmer areas in the valley, a fan is enough to deal with the heat. Also, the heat usually only lasts from early afternoon until just before sunset. Mornings are always cool.

It's also relevant to include the fact that evenings in this area are almost always cool and dry. Also, many places in the area surrounding Vilca are much cooler than the town itself. These include Mollepamba and Yamburara.

I hope this helps.

Susan F, you certainly are a wonderful resource and so generous with your time and sharing so many helpful hints!  I currently live on the coast but will be looking to move to the Loja province in October or November.  I applaud your efforts to help manage the dog population.  I was a bit astonished to see so many breeds for sale in the area of Zamora-Chincipe on the internet.  That was a big surprise given that people say there are already quite a few ferals in that area?  When I lived off the coast of Nicaragua in 2011, I participated in a round-up with volunteer veterinarians, who came as volunteers and sterilized over 300 animals in three days!!  I truly never saw their faces as they were continually bent over animals with their masks on.  It was hugely successful, but in order for that effort to be sustainable, it must have the cooperation of the entire community, right?  I hope to meet you someday as I travel in that direction.

Ecuadorians have a penchant for purebred dogs, and this can be a problem for rescue animals. Presently, I have a wonderful male Pug that everyone adores, but not person will agree to neutering and keeping it a yard. Until that happens, Bruno the pug will remain with me.

Many cities and communities are holding spay/neuter clinics in Ecuador. However, in Loja none are happening because the Directorade Agri Calidad will not permit clinics in open areas (think no stainless steel tables). However, we are trying to get past this red tape by investigating non-surgical options that are safer, easier to organize and less expensive. IT WILL BE HAPPENING SOON IN SOUTHERN ECUADOR!!

Yes, pareeves, it an only happen if we have people willing to make it happen. Our numbers are growing slowly, but we are getting there!!

I was thinking about moving to Vilcabamba in the near future. I'm a retired female with 2 dogs and a cat which I will not leave behind. I make a tiny bit over Ecuador's retiree residency requirement of 800. mo unless they raised it. I wanted to find a small furnished house to rent that has a yard and that will accept my 2 dogs. One is a small pug and the other a medium size boxer. I want a yard so, that I can garden organic veggies and fruits and flowers (I like gardening.)  I eat only organic and and hope that it won't be a problem finding produce that is not grown or sprayed with chemicals and No GMO's.   I'm vegan too and into the new agey stuff, crystals, etc (which I saw on this blog seems popular in Vilcabamba. I don't speak any Spanish, but plan to learn it. Questions: Will I be able to find something inexpensive with a yard to rent in Vilcabamba? I wouldn't want to live in a nearby town. Another place I though of is Uraguay, but that might be less affordable and less hospitable to gringos (have to look more into that too.) Thank you! New1

retired1 wrote:

I'm vegan too and into the new agey stuff, crystals, etc. which I saw on this blog seems popular in Vilcabamba. I don't speak any Spanish, but plan to learn it. Questions: Will I be able to find something inexpensive with a yard to rent in Vilcabamba? I wouldn't want to live in a nearby town. Another place I though of is Uraguay, but that might be less affordable and less hospitable to gringos.

Welcome to the Ecuador forum, Retired One.

Perhaps Susan F. will be by here to update the rental situation.

Vilca and Cuenca are possibly the two best places in La República for new arrivals in terms of getting by without Spanish-language skills for a while.

Uruguay cost-of-living is at least 30 percent higher than Ecuador's.  There are places in Uruguay that are quite international and used to foreign visitors and residents -- for instance, the world-class beach town of Punta del Este ... and Buenos Aires, Argentina's weekend-getaway town -- Colonia del Sacramento, Uruguay -- a fascinating riverside fortress-town from the Portuguese colonial days.

Consejo de deletrear: the letter 'u' appears three times when spelling Uruguay.

cccmedia in Quito

I think Vilc would be more economical for me from the sounds of it. I just hope I won't have a problem with finding a furnished rental small house for a reasonable price and that would accept me with a small and medium size dog. Thank you for responding, New1

retired1, I know of rentals in the $200-$250 range, but a place with a yard might cost a bit more. I do know of a brand new home in Malacatos (a short drive from Vilcabamba) with a pet friendly owner who wants $300/mo - and the market in Malacatos is much more affordable than that in Vilca! Utilities are very affordable. I live in a small two-bedroom home, and my electric runs about $20/mo and water $2/mo. Bottles of gas run about $2.50, but EC is about to change over to electric in a big way, so gas is expected to go up to about $25/bottle.

I would highly suggest you first make a visit to Ecuador to make sure it is your place. Living here takes a great amount of flexibility and patience. With that said, Vilcabamba is a very pet-friendly place. As the founder of Ayuda Mascotas Ecuador, I can attest to this!

I can't stress enough how important knowing Spanish is for the expat in EC. To come here without at least a rudimentary knowledge of the language with be a painful experience!