So what if I overstay my Tourist Visa in Brazil anyway?

Hi,

i can see many posted about overstayed visa so many im slightly confused all it all!

Im British and ive been living in Brasil since Jaunary 2014, my 3 month tourist visa expired on 15th April 2014

Therefore, to date i have overstayed my visa by 13 months.

My question is, if i leave brasil and pay the fine,when can i return to Brasil on another tourist visa?

I read in some posts that the overstayed days are not counted because they are subject to a fine, therefore on payment of the fine my overstay does not count towards my re-entry and therefore i will beable to return to brasil straight away on a tourist visa and obtain the usually 90 days visa on arrival.

Is this correct or have it got it all wrong!

Thanks
Tracy

Hi moletracy,

I've answered your question in the other topic thread.

Cheers,
James

James, Hi!

So, actually, I'm speaking for an american friend of mine who's been living here lately. Here's his situation:

- He got in Brazil for the first time Sep 21st 2014;
- He then left back to the US on Dec 8th 2014;
- He's back to Brazil Jun 17th 2015;
- He was given a 90 days stay, which would end today (Sep 15th 2015).
- He's been planning to cross a border at Foz do Iguaçu and come back on Sep 21st (that's when he was able to buy a flight);

My question is:

- Will he be able to get there, pay the fine, cross the border and then come back? Or are there any chances he might end up held in Paraguay forbidden to reentry?

Your friend's first stay was (according to the dates given) a total of 79 days, added to that will be the 90 days that he was granted for his present stay. This gives a total of 169 days. The overstay days do not get counted in any future calculation of stay entitlement since they are subject to a fine. That means your friend will be entitled to re-enter Brazil without any problem provided that he pays the fine either upon leaving or on his return. But he will only be entitled to an 11 day stay in Brazil (maximum). Upon departing Brazil on the 21st he's going to have to wait for one full year (Sept.21, 2016) before he would be entitled to return to Brazil with the ability to stay 180 days.

If he's leaving Brazil on the 21st anyway, I really don't think that the DPF agent at the airport is going to be too eager to stamp his passport with an overstay stamp, especially if he pays the fine on departure. I'd suggest that you phone the DPF explain the situation that the flight for the 21st was the first date available, and that the overstay will be just 7 days. I'm sure they'll say exactly the same, just overstay the visa, pay the fine and save himself the trouble of going to Paraguay. Unless of course he really wants to go there for some reason, or he's too worried about the potential of getting the stamp in his passport anyway.

Either way, he's certainly not going to have any troubles (future or present) here in Brazil. Even if he does get the overstay stamp, the only possible consequences are going to be in the future and in some other country if he should apply for a visa to that country.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

But he was planning to stay here until early december. Is there any chance he'd be able to do that without overstaying his visa?

I thought that, since the first time he got here was Sep 21st 2014, he'd earn another 180 days this next Sep 21st 2015. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. If your friend is an American citizen then he holds a "consular visa" VITUR Tourist Visa which is in his passport. With this type of visa, stays are calculated much differently than the stays for those who enter Brazil under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP), which you are probably thinking about.

For VITUR holders stay calculation is based on a "rolling year". Essentially on the date one enters Brazil they go back exactly ONE YEAR and count all the days the individual has already been in this country in order to determine the stay that is allowed. The annual maximum is 180 days, and the individual is not permitted to be in the country any more than that at any given time during their stay. If they are entitled to more than 90 days upon entry, then they are granted an initial 90 day stay. This can be extended to a maximum of a further 90 days provided that they are entitled to that many. Otherwise their stay would only be extended for any remaining balance that would bring them up to a total of 180 days, which is the case with your friend. So he will only be entitled to re-enter Brazil and stay for 11 days without being in an overstay situation. Once those 180 days are used up, then the individual must be out of Brazil for 180 days just to get the count back to ZERO at which point they start to accumulate days that they are entitled to be in Brazil. Between 180 days and 270 days the would be entitled to be in Brazil only for the number of days in excess of 180 since their last departure. After 270 days they would be entitled to a 90 day stay, which cannot be extended. Between 270 days and 365 days, they would be entitled to an initial stay of 90 days which could be extended by only

It is the VWP entries that are based on a calendar year, and calculated from the FIRST EVER date of entry to Brazil. I'm sure this is what you've gotten confused with. Hope you understand the way the count is done now.

Of course your friend can choose to overstay his visa until early December should he wish to do so, however he does run the risk of being caught and "invited" by the Federal Police to leave Brazil voluntarily within 8 days should that happen. Remembering that here in Brazil everyone must carry identification documents and they are required by law to produce them anytime a police officer requests them to do so. For expats that means their passport must be produced (certified copy of ID pages and current visa page are recommended for carrying around). If the individual is in an overstay situation the Military Police are required to turn them over to Federal Police immediately. Here police do not need to have any specific reason to demand one's ID. Also the longer the overstay the more likely one will end up with the overstay stamp being placed in their passport upon departure.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

Now even I think you're planning to immigrate to Brazil, given that you're asking here on a topic thread about OVERSTAYING YOUR VISA.

Really, you should forget the idea entirely because you shot yourself in the foot with a very big gun by applying for the RNE. You will most certainly find yourself put back onto the plane that you arrive on. Save yourself the money and time. Don't buy the ticket. If you've already bought it try and get a refund.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

No, you can't "un-ring" the bell, I'm afraid. When the Federal Police check your passport and enter the information on the computer, the RNE application is going to pop up on their screen. That's going to be like waving a red flag at a bull.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

No they would not enter anything on your passport, since you don't even qualify for a RNE yet. The application however would be cross-referenced to your application through your full name, and other data that you provided on the RNE application. And essentially you did sign the document ELECTRONICALLY by checking off the "Termo de Responsibilidade" which must be done to complete the online process.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

Why I ask you why?

Why on earth are you surfing around on a federal police site  filling in Random forms?
Especially if you know you don't even need a visa to come here.

Hi Steve,

Same question I wanted to ask, but of course I'd probably get into deep "doo-doo" with Julien if I had done so. 

Hi James,

Thanks so much for your help to everyone here. It's helped me a lot.

You say (and I read in some other places too) that Brazil might become less lex about overstaying in the future. I'm planning to go to Brazil and might overstay. If I do stay illegally and the law changes, how can I find out? Is there an accessible source that I can be sure is always up to date?

Thanks a lot,
Bart

To be quite honest, your very best source of information about anything in Brazil is right here on Expat-blog. I pride myself in the fact that I spend many hours every day keeping up-to-date on every aspect of this country's suffocating bureaucracy, public safety issues, and everyday issues. It's a great deal of hard work, especially considering the fact that I'm a VOLUNTEER, but somebody has to do it otherwise we're all lost!!!

Regarding any changes in the overstaying of visas, it would first need to be published in the Diário Oficial da União - DOU (National Gazette) before it could go into effect. You could keep an eye on that, or check the Policia Federal website on the menu click on GRU, https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/gru/gru?nac=1&rec=2 and in that window click on the magnifying glass beside the field "Código da Receita STN", scroll down to line 140414 "     DEMORAR-SE NO TERRITORIO NACIONAL APOS ESGOTADO O PRAZO LEGAL DE ESTADA (MINIMO: R$ 8,28 - MAXIMO: R$ 827,75)". If the daily amount of R$8,28 should increase substantially then you should check further, that would be your first indication that perhaps the rules have been tightened up.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Thank you James, I can tell you invest a lot of time in this community and I appreciate your helpful answer very much! I'll keep an eye on those sources and on this thread if I do end up overstaying.

Hey, James! How are you doing?

Do you have an e-mail or anyway I can communicate with you in private?

All the best!

rafanaka wrote:

Hey, James! How are you doing?

Do you have an e-mail or anyway I can communicate with you in private?

All the best!

Just click on the envelope icon in the green banner at the top of this page, that will take you into our private message system, where you can send me a message. Just send it to James, I'm the one and only.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

Hi James,

I have another question. I'll be entering Brazil from Paraguay, and that border is easy to cross without getting a stamp in my passport. Would it help to pass the border without getting a stamp initially and then come back a few months later to get the stamp, starting my legal stay as tourist?

I imagine I'd have to come back as soon as I do need my passport for something, or at least within 3 months so I won't overstay my tourist visa in Paraguay. Do you think it's advantageous to be able to say "I don't know, they didn't stamp my passport" for as long as possible?

Advantageous??? That depends if you're talking about DEPORTATION.  Good luck with that ABart, you know what they say about mess with the bull... you get the horn!!!

Why don't you just follow the rules like most people do? Overstay if you will, but pay the bloody fine because it's small potatoes... DEPORTATION IS FOR KEEPS my friend.

Overstaying one's visa is not a crime,in Brazil, it is an administrative infraction. Not that it doesn't have consequences elsewhere, but it's still not a crime. Immigrations Fraud is a crime on the other hand, one that has serious consequences both in Brazil and abroad.

Please don't post questions here on our forums asking to condone illegal activity, it isn't going to happen and you'll just end up having your account cancelled because it violates Expat-blog Terms & Conditions of Use.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Sorry for my question then James, I didn't realise that and didn't mean to break the rules of the forum. I hope I didn't offend you, it was merely my ignorance. Thanks a lot for your response however, it's a clear and very helpful answer to my question!

Unfortunately, far too many expats seem to think that immigration rules are little more than a game we play. They seem to forget that every time someone plays fast and loose with the rules they bring us all closer to those rules being tightened up considerably. That hurts everybody.

Things are pretty lax in Brazil, we certainly don't need to give the government ammunition for much more oppressive rules.

I'm not offended, I just find it difficult to understand why some people who have this attitude completely lack vision and aren't getting the bigger picture.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Dear James,

I have read your comments on this blog and I must say, I admire your complete answers on the subjects. After days of searching on the internet, I am a bit lost and your expertise would help me a lot.

This is my situation:
I am a recent graduate from Belgium, 23 years old and engaged to Loïc, also a Belgian. We want to start a company to help Belgian students in Brasil (so our company will be Belgian based, with a daughter company in Brasil). First, we want to go to Rio de Janeiro from January/February 2016 until August 2016 to find an apartment, get settled, establish business contacts and so on. Then we want to go back to Belgium from September until November 2016 to recruit students. In the long run, we want to live in Rio de Janeiro and go back once in a while to Belgium to recruit students.

This is the problem:
It is impossible to get a visa for this purpose, I think.
Tourist Visa: 3 months is not enough for us and we do not want to overstay our visa (as we want to start our life here, we do not want to stay illegally)
Student Visa: I have looked into this option. You can follow 'Portuguese for foreigners' at the PUC-Rio (although they mention on their website that this extension course is not enough to obtain a student visa). Also, it is not clear for me how much this will costs and if you automatically have a visa for 6 months (although this course is only 3 months). A full educational program would be too expensive for us. The problem is that the Embassy not always grants a student visa if you only follow 3-hour course per week (however in Belgium you do not have to proof how many hours a week you will be following).
Volunteer Visa: I have not looked into it that much, however I can imagine that the main focus would be volunteering. We also need time to develop our business so I think this is not a good option either.
Business Visa: this is also only valid for 90 days so too short for us.
Investor Visa: as we are recent graduates, we do not have the 150 000 dollar per person to invest in Brazil.


The only option, I think, is to obtain a student visa at PUC - Rio and after two years try to start a family here (which gives both parents the option for permanent residence.


Thank you so much in advance for all your advice.


Kind regards, Margot

Hello Margot,

Well your situation is complicated, but not necessarily as complicated as you may believe, especially if you and your fiancee plan to marry before you come to Brazil.

The VIPER Permanent Visa for Investment, is NOT $150 thousand as you mention. It is actually R$150 thousand (BRL) which works out to around €38 thousand and if you were already married the visa would cover yourself and your spouse, so if you're going to operate a business here anyway it certainly would be worth looking into.

Really it is about the only way you can rely upon obtaining a visa that is going to allow you to stay in Brazil for periods longer than 90 days.

The visa must be applied for through the Ministério de Trabalho e Empregos - MTE and would require a detailed business plan that outlines the nature of business venture you intend to operate, its estimated annual income, geographic area in Brazil where you intend to operate, number of Brazilians it would employ (if any). The initial visa would be issued as "PROVISÓRIO" for the first 3 years. When renewing it the only real requirements are that you prove the business is still in operation and that the initial investment has not been repatriated. The renewal visa would be issued as "PERMANENTE".

Business start-up and registration takes on average 120 days and would require the assistance of a lawyer and/or accountant in Brazil who is experienced in business start-ups.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Dear James,

Thank you for your prompt answer.

If we could manage to invest 38 000€, can we at least invest this in real estate (our own private apartment) or does it really has to be business-related. I'm asking this because mainly we would like to invest in a website and contacts, real investments in production, R&D, ... will not be necessary. It is kind of a consulting-service. I do not want to go in too much details in this public environment, you will probably understand

So the student visa with the extension course will not be an option for us? (we will not be working the first year in Brazil, we are looking to do remote work that is linked to our Belgian address)

Thank you in advance,
Margot

Hello Margot,

No, the investment can no longer be in the form of real estate, due to many past abuses. It must actually be made in the form of an investment in an existing Brazilian business (full or partial investment), or a start-up business that you plan to operated.

While you could possibly find a university course that would qualify you for a VITEM-IV Student Visa, they are traditionally issued on a 6 month renewable basis, for the duration of the course. The problem with a Student Visa is that they would only permit you to work up to a maximum of 20 hours per week if at all. You'd need to request the visa which would permit part-time employment.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

Hello, i have read your posts many months and had a question regarding my situation.

I moved here on a 1 year student visa and when it finished came back with my tourist visa which expired in August. I did the investment plan route and invested R150k in a brazilian business which i am now a partner. However the process has taken much longer than i anticipated and just starting the Investor VIsa Process now. The VISA Consultant here in Brazil i am using, said i am fine and just need to pay the fine for the overstay. Once they start the process, i would be issued a document allowing me to stay due to the VISA being processed. But now, my brazilian girlfriend prefers that we get married next year and i just stop the Investor Visa process and go the Permanent Residency Route. She is worried that i will spend money for consultants and then in a few months change from Investor VISA to residency.

I was worried that overstaying could hurt my chances of being approved for the Investor Visa but the Consultants are saying no. What do you think on this matter.

I certainly hope that you are dealing with a reputable visa consultancy. Did they tell you that for the VIPER Visa for Investors, that you will need to return to your home country to have the Consulado-Geral do Brasil there put the visa in your passport? Do they even know this important information?

You can't get married in Brazil unless you are in a regular visa situation, so your visa stay must be current.

Have you already invested the money in the Brazilian company? If not great, but how will you get it out if you've already invested it, and how much of it would you lose?

The overstay is nothing, it's R$8.28 a day capped at 100 days. Do you currently have anything, if you're already in an overstay situation that says you're legal in the country? I ask because I can guarantee that if you were in an overstay situation the Federal Police would have asked for that fine to be paid long ago.

I'm beginning to wonder if you're not being scammed here. Can you send me a private message with the name of the Visa Consultancy please.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Hi James,

I've seen your thorough answers to other questions of this nature and would love some advice (apologies if I am repeating a question already answered elsewhere). I am travelling to Brazil in January to complete some research for my Masters (based in the UK, so am not in need of a student visa as will not be undertaking any academic study at a Brazilian institution). I know that a VITUR visa is only valid for 90 days but that it is possible to renew this to 180 days in total. I will not plan to spend the full 180 days in Brazil anyway, and will visit Argentina and other neighbouring countries, but for the ease of flight booking and much more reasonable return flight prices rather than, I'd like to book a return flight to and from Rio. My question is about this return flight from Brazil in July, 6 months after my first arrival date. Will this likely cause me problems at the departure gate, or on entry to Brazil? If I have a proof of onward departure, e.g. a ticket to Argentina, should this be OK, or will they take issue with me having a return flight from Brazil which does not fall within my first 90 days of arrival?

I've travelled to Brazil six times before, just not for this long in one stay - have only stayed maximum 1 month before.

Saudaçoes!

Karin

Hi Karin,

Yes, a return ticket for July will cause problems. Since extension of your visa (prorrogação do prazo de estada) is never guaranteed, but rather at the discretion of the Federal Police, the ticket would need to be for no more than 90 days from your entry. This means you would either need to purchase a ticket that permits you to change the flight without too much of a penalty; or purchase a "throw-away" bus ticket for one of the surrounding South American countries, dated for 90 days after arrival, and hope that you actually do get the extension when you apply for it if you purchase a return ticket for July that can't be changed. The legislation doesn't require a "return ticket", but rather just an outbound ticket to any country you can enter without a visa or one for which you hold a valid visa. So the bus ticket would be sufficient for your entry. You can purchase the bus ticket online or through your travel agent.

If you hold a UK passport then you should be OK, but even in the worst case scenario if you weren't granted the extension then you'd actually need to use the bus ticket, exit the country (making sure to get an exit stamp in the passport) and then re-enter. Upon re-entry you'd need a new entry stamp and that would be for a further 90 days. If things go ok and you do get the extension when you request if from the Federal Police then you simply cancel the bus ticket (no less than 3 hours prior to departure - much more is better) and ask for a refund. They bus line will try and object, but the Código de Proteção do Consumidor clearly states that they have to refund the money.

Note that the foregoing information only applies if you hold a UK passport, if you have a Schengen Area passport or one from another Visa Waiver Program (VWP) country, then there is no extending the stay, it's 90 days in Brazil in any 180 day period based on your "first ever" date of entry.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Dear James
Thanks so much for your quick reply, very clear.
I just wanted to check one thing - because the price difference between single and return from London to Rio is so staggering, I'd really rather book my return at this point rather than booking my return ticket once out there (Return is currently £580, single is £1400!)
If I actually did not require a visa extension, since I would only be transiting back through Rio en route to London at the end of my 6 month stay in South America - would simply being in possession of this return ticket be problematic? Even if I had an onward journey (Brazil-Argentina) booked within the first 90 day period)?
Thanks,

If you're returning by air from Argentina, and won't leave the international secure area before your flight it will be ok.
If you were planning to leave the international area, or returning by bus then you'd need a VITRAN Transit Visa.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

Thanks James
Best wishes

Hello James thanks for being active on this forum.

Your info is really useful.

I have dual citizenship ( Belgian and Canadian)

I know it is not a good idea to travel to brazil with my canadian passport because i overstayed with my belgian passport

I overstayed in brazil by 8 months two years ago, I did not recieve any ugly stamp on my passport. I did not pay the fine on leaving Brazil I recieved a fine paper the agent told me to pay the fine on returning to brazil. I did not have any trouble applying for a russian visa with my old passport.

I lost the fine paper and I changed my passport because it had expired. Will i have any trouble paying the fine when i return to brazil without the fine paper and old passport?

from what time to what time and which day do you advise me to arrive at the airport to pay the fine at the bank? Do i have to pay the fine by cash or with my bank card? can i arrive at the airport at 7AM. ( Rio de Janeiro )

The overstay fine is for the PERSON and not the passport it is registered in. So, regardless of what passport you are using you still owe the fine. While it might not get picked up by the computer upon entry with a passport from a different country than the nationality you last entered under, it very well may get picked up, since entry/departure information in the computer is recorded by a number of different parameters, name, age, nationality, passport number, just to mention a few.

I would be prepared to pay the fine upon re-entry regardless of what passport you use. Just trying to get around it could cause you real problems, even refused entry. If you still have the old passport even though there is no overstay stamp your exit and entry stamps are there. I would strongly recommend bringing along the old cancelled passport and telling them about the overstay, esplain that you lost the GRU and wish to pay. The overstay is limited to a maximum of 100 days anyway, so that is only R$827.75. The Federal Police will issue you a new GRU and escort you to the bank to pay it, just as they would if you had the original GRU anyway.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Hello james

Thank you for your reply.

I don't have my old passport any more. Do you think it will be a problem?

can you tell me which day and what time do you advise me to arrive at the airport? is it good to arrive at the airport at 7am?

best wishes

Tarik

Hello James,

My name is Benjamin and I am an Australian that was previously living in Sao Paulo.

I have a quick question to clear up some confusion I have had.

I left Sao Paulo on the 13th March 2016 after arriving on the 1st April 2014.  I applied for an extension until the 28th September 2014.

I was previously under the impression that even though I was illegal for that time I could potentially return after 6 months, however when I left I was told by the immigration officer that I couldn't return for one year. He told me I couldn't pay my overstay fine even though an American friend of mine paid it when he left 2 months ago.

Does the one year ban sound correct?

I ask because my intention was to return to marry my fiancé in September/October this year and if that's not possible then we will get married in Australia and I would apply for a permanent partner visa.

Thanks for your help,

Six months will only put you back to ZERO. The Federal Police officer was correct, you'll need to wait one year from departure to be able to come back for a 90 day stay that you can extend by a further 90, or 270 days for just the initial 90 day unextendable stay.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Hi James,

Thank you soo much for the clarification it really means a lot, so I guess if me and my girlfriend got married here I could always apply for a permanent visa, as the overstay wouldn't have any implications on that.

If i decided to come back after 270 days would I still be eligible for just the initial 90 day stay, or is it simply they won't let me in prior to 1 year?

Thanks once again,

Benjamin