Dating I HCMC

Tong Tran wrote:

In Viet Nam, parent usually force girl to marry from 25 - 30. Over 30, it is not good for giving a birth and people around you will have rumour such as "Poor her!!! She could not find a man, that is the reason why".

Especially, the girl in The north, average marriage age is 25. Vietnamese has a concept that people just have a mature and stable life until they get a husband. Keeping an old girl in family without marriage is like keeping a bomb. Someday, it will explore and "bommm!!!" (It means that she will have sex and be pregnant)

So, If you want to date with any girl, please set expectation with them first. Because this is our culture. Girl will expect to marry you, it is very natural and usual in this society, we accept it.

Tong Tran
I think you should not apply this to all Vietnamese while that is just your old thoughts.
We, Vietnamese girls, with high education and pride, we don't care if we get older without being married until we find out the right man for the hole rest of our life.
What if your age reaches to your limit and you will try to get married with any one you can capture?  The rest of your life likes living in hell and you might just wanna kill yourself...

lephuc That thumbs up is from me. It's refreshing to have somebody with your point of view on life post what the real deal is, not what it used to be 20 or 30 years ago.

I think we also need to make the point that girls in the major cities are way different to the girls in the countryside. Girls in the smaller towns,villages and farms have a different outlook as they are not exposed to the ways of the big cities. Thats my take on it, from knowing quite a few friends in small towns.

With nearly 90 million people in Vietnam I'm sure everyone who has posted to this thread is correct in their observations. I personally know 4 women of marriage age (20-30) who are feeling pressure from their families to get married and start a family. Does that mean all families are putting pressure on their daughters? No, of course not, but at the same time you can't say that all highly educated girls from well off families are not feeling pressure either.

VungTauDon wrote:

With nearly 90 million people in Vietnam I'm sure everyone who has posted to this thread is correct in their observations. I personally know 4 women of marriage age (20-30) who are feeling pressure from their families to get married and start a family. Does that mean all families are putting pressure on their daughters? No, of course not, but at the same time you can't say that all highly educated girls from well off families are not feeling pressure either.

You're right. But what we do is our choices. And the rest will tell us all.

Very true Don, I have a friend from a very well educated, wealthy family, she was pressured by her mother. In the end she moved away and told her mother its her life to live,not her mothers. As the years have past, her mother has accepted this, but still doesnt agree with her daughters choice.

lephuc wrote:

VungTauDon wrote:

With nearly 90 million people in Vietnam I'm sure everyone who has posted to this thread is correct in their observations. I personally know 4 women of marriage age (20-30) who are feeling pressure from their families to get married and start a family. Does that mean all families are putting pressure on their daughters? No, of course not, but at the same time you can't say that all highly educated girls from well off families are not feeling pressure either.

You're right. But what we do is our choices. And the rest will tell us all.

What do you mean by 'what we do is our choice' em oi? So parents who give birth and take care you until now, just ignore?
'What we do' in your sentence is the reason which make them worry and forcing their children get marry with someone. To see their fire in heart, you should give birth to a baby and raise it well!

colinoscapee wrote:

Very true Don, I have a friend from a very well educated, wealthy family, she was pressured by her mother. In the end she moved away and told her mother its her life to live,not her mothers. As the years have past, her mother has accepted this, but still doesnt agree with her daughters choice.

The same with me. My mother always make pressure to me. She always said me marriaging someone, every but man. "Its done". I said, done with you, not done with me mom. But now, she even accept for me have baby without my husband ̣-single mom. But she still said: lets marrige someone. :Đ

Good for you Nguyen, its your life.

charmavietnam wrote:

lephuc wrote:

VungTauDon wrote:

With nearly 90 million people in Vietnam I'm sure everyone who has posted to this thread is correct in their observations. I personally know 4 women of marriage age (20-30) who are feeling pressure from their families to get married and start a family. Does that mean all families are putting pressure on their daughters? No, of course not, but at the same time you can't say that all highly educated girls from well off families are not feeling pressure either.

You're right. But what we do is our choices. And the rest will tell us all.

What do you mean by 'what we do is our choice' em oi? So parents who give birth and take care you until now, just ignore?
'What we do' in your sentence is the reason which make them worry and forcing their children get marry with someone. To see their fire in heart, you should give birth to a baby and raise it well!

So your return to them is a marriage? Is that all? Those parents who love their children will stand up with their choices. That's true love in universe. Maybe you don't understand it. Yes they tries to hurry you, but what they truly want is your choice and your happy life.

Have you ever been married Lephuc or had a child.

c

lephuc wrote:

Tong Tran wrote:

In Viet Nam, parent usually force girl to marry from 25 - 30. Over 30, it is not good for giving a birth and people around you will have rumour such as "Poor her!!! She could not find a man, that is the reason why".

Especially, the girl in The north, average marriage age is 25. Vietnamese has a concept that people just have a mature and stable life until they get a husband. Keeping an old girl in family without marriage is like keeping a bomb. Someday, it will explore and "bommm!!!" (It means that she will have sex and be pregnant)

So, If you want to date with any girl, please set expectation with them first. Because this is our culture. Girl will expect to marry you, it is very natural and usual in this society, we accept it.

Tong Tran
I think you should not apply this to all Vietnamese while that is just your old thoughts.
We, Vietnamese girls, with high education and pride, we don't care if we get older without being married until we find out the right man for the hole rest of our life.
What if your age reaches to your limit and you will try to get married with any one you can capture?  The rest of your life likes living in hell and you might just wanna kill yourself...

Hi, I didn't say that always happens, I just said "parent usually". So you could not say that "I think you should not apply this to all Vietnamese".

And you need to know the difference between "what I thought" and "The fact is happening". I just said about what the usual fact is happening here. My purpose is providing for him usual view point I saw in our culture. I didn't add my own opinion to what I said such as "I think that this part of Vietnamese culture is so bad"

And I just wanted to make him clear that setting expectation when you date with a girl from a different culture is a must thing to do for any relationship. So you could avoid something like "he cheated me, he is not serious to me".

Yes, there are girls like you, but of course, there are a lots of girls who want to marry before getting too old, too. This is Viet Nam, not foreign country, we have to live with a lots of too old fashioned thing and learn how to deal and accept with it. If you are 40 years old in US and you lost virgin, you still could find lover, marry a man. But If you live in Viet Nam, you lost virgin, you could still find a man (In Cambodia, very hard). But if you are too old, it is becoming harder to find a good man and start a family. I said harder, I don't say it could not happen.

Each person has their choice, the most important thing is that they are happy with their choice and commit to their choice. I know a lots of women, they have different living style from me They choose family, children instead of being workaholic and travel around the world like me. But we are happy, so it is enough.

This is a very good topic.  I am amazed at the responses.  It has helped me understand that we are really a lot alike.  When I was in my twenties all I heard from my mother was find a good woman and make me some grand babies.  Got married at 32 and divorced at 50.  But I still believe in love...

Indeed this is an interesting topic. One that i have read and learnt from.

Whilst reading some of the responses here, i don't believe that some girls being pressured into getting young, only applies to Vietnamese girls (if this is still happening in some parts of Vietnam). This happens in other parts of the world too. I think there is alot emphasis on girls getting married young in the family in the Asia region. However, that said, times are changing now and as some of you have mentioned in this forum, girls now days tend to lead the way (in some cases) they do what they want and feel its their life. So if they choose to have a career first and then get married later on, they feel its their choice and their life.

Vietnam is in Asian continent even though they(majority people) want to follow the 'old culture' of U.S. Yes, they are on the old culture not the new culture which is totally changed from the old one where which the children obedient with parents and society. Now things changed. Approach towards parents,elders, society, dressing style, etc. If you want to follow someone's culture just follow with their recent one. So it will be better for you, your family and of course for Vietnam.If parents push us to marry means there is some reasons.your character, fertility period(possibility of remarriage which is common now) and so on. Yes, you are living in a society, so you do not have much 'freedom' as you envisioned though the motto of Vietnam says:"Độc lập – Tự do – Hạnh phúc"(Independence – Freedom – Happiness)!
Freedom doesn't means the freedom to do whatever you want! If you want to do some anti-social things which make you more happy and comfortable, surely it will affect your family, society and the whole country.I know many girls from village area come to Saigon and 'do whatever they want'. Later, their parents cannot stop them from their 'new happy life'. If you do not belief this just go Ben Thanh area after 5pm and stay beside the road. You can see so may 'beautiful' girls driving colorful Attila Elizabeth! Yeah, that's their favorite(or brand?) scooter!
Blaming parents is not the quality of a good boy/girl. When you get the chance to that position, then only you like people understand why they worry. I don't want to say all parents are perfect and affectionate to their children. Of course there has exception like any other thing. I just stand for the majority who wishing a good and secure family in their life, not for the arrogant, impolite creatures who blindly blaming their creators for some cans of beer of some momentary 'fun'!
I only respect girls who wishing a happy, peaceful family life without thinking of money always.Greedy creatures never think this way about life. According to their theory money is everything.For money. they will do anything!
Tail piece: I know some parents pushing their girl children to the field of prostitution (not hearsay), especially mom! In these cases mom plays the role of villain.

tien.tran wrote:

BE CAREFUL, I see in many cases that they use "black magic" to seduce foreign man to love them and give them ALL of their money.

It's not any kind of magic. It's called STUPIDITY on the guy's part!

Tong Tran wrote:

Keeping an old girl in family without marriage is like keeping a bomb. Someday, it will explore and "bommm!!!" (It means that she will have sex and be pregnant)

No dear, you are wrong, should correct it.
It never explode because almost every girl know well the use of "postinor" and least condoms!
Of course good parents will worry always about their children.If they push you to marry with someone means there is a sufficient reason behind it. May be orthodox thinking, or fear the society,your best age for infertility and so on.

charmavietnam wrote:

Tong Tran wrote:

Keeping an old girl in family without marriage is like keeping a bomb. Someday, it will explore and "bommm!!!" (It means that she will have sex and be pregnant)

No dear, you are wrong, should correct it.
It never explode because almost every girl know well the use of "postinor" and least condoms!
Of course good parents will worry always about their children.If they push you to marry with someone means there is a sufficient reason behind it. May be orthodox thinking, or fear the society,your best age for infertility and so on.

I just said about the fact happening in this country. Many parents have that thoughts, especially in the middle - my hometown. I don't say that it is my own opinion and I don't say that my idea applies to every girl in this country.

Of course, most of girl (over teen) know how to use condom and other methods for avoid being pregnant but it could not prevent 100% for you. The condom could be broken but you don't know or the bill doesn't have any effect but you don't know why. I don't say this thing to suggest every girl in this country live without sex until marriage, I just want to imply one thing: You could not be sure about anything 100%.

Tong, did you know that Viet Nam has the highest rate of teenage abortion in SEA.The main contributor to this is no sex education at high school. I look around me in my hem and its just a mass of new born babies.

jinxedta wrote:

I didn't know this would be such hot topic here...

By all means I'm not into the 1 night stands.

I just saying that its not hard to find someone her in VN but finding that someone that is looking to get to know one another before getting so serious is the clincher.

heck really you don't really get to know someone for at least a year or so. You can't really find out someone's quirks within a few weeks. 

I see why there are so much divorce or separations here. marriage is a life long commitment that cannot be decided within a few weeks.

if i am allow to add my two cents worth

I agree that it may be a little uncomfortable if a girl proclaims that she 'loves' you within a few dates.

But I'm also curious to know what is your definition of 'serious' in this case. I guess if you can keep things casual (maybe minimal intimacy) then ya, it sounds reasonable, at least to me. (Cmon, it's not all about the guy's perks, is it?

Another question is - will you reach a point where you have discovered the 'quirks' you wanna find and moves on into a proper (exclusive) relationship.

colinoscapee wrote:

Tong, did you know that Viet Nam has the highest rate of teenage abortion in SEA.The main contributor to this is no sex education at high school. I look around me in my hem and its just a mass of new born babies.

I think that I am not clear about this, I should note that (over teen). Because at first this topic talks about women/ over teen girl in Viet Nam and I am talking to others about girl who receive pressure to get married young. I used the unclear word.

And I think that most of students I approached (in big cities) knows about using condom and other things because I joined a program about sex education for students. From my experiences and my view point, They are not stupid, they know it from internet, books, magazine ( I really appreciate some Vietnamese teenager magazine when they try to make sex education for students)  but the problem is that they don't think that some days, it could happen to them.

For example, if you are teenagers in other countries, you could have condom beside you because you know "Yes, it could happen". But, in this country, you are student and going to a medicine store to buy condom is usually quite hard because the way people look at you....And the rumour could start from this and spread to your parent's ears, especially in small cities, people know each others a lots. Even in big cities, my friend (> 18) feels pressure to buy condoms, too. To old fashioned Vietnamese people, especially in small cities, they often think that buying condom at teenager age is something so wrong and they need to tell your parent to educate you again. And in the school, they nearly don't have any program to providing free condoms to students.

And the situation is often like that: Most of students don't think that it could happen + pressure from most of society -> Not buying condom (mostly) -> And they could hang out with their boy friend/ girl friend at home when parent is not available or some same situations -> And they feel curious and they just have intention to play around but they could not control themselves (I believe that you understand that feeling) -> Yes, going straight ahead, no need to care, just want to satisfy at this current moment -> consequences.

This is my idea from my experiences and my view point when I worked with students so maybe it could not be true to what you saw and observed. Hope it will help you understand about my country.

Tong Tran wrote:

But, in this country, you are student and going to a medicine store to buy condom is usually quite hard because the way people look at you....And the rumour could start from this and spread to your parent's ears, especially in small cities, people know each others a lots.

This sounds a lot like the US back in the 50's and early 60's

Actually it was written in the VN media, you can do a search if you like. Its not my opinion but the opinion of the VN media.I just know that there are alot of young single mums here, I worked at a place that looked after young single mums who had been thrown out by their families. I can give you the contacts and go see for yourself.

Well someone is buying condoms, the amout of condom stores is mind blowing.

I've heard some of the stories about the quality of the sex education also. Its very very basic at best

colinoscapee wrote:

Actually it was written in the VN media, you can do a search if you like. Its not my opinion but the opinion of the VN media.I just know that there are alot of young single mums here, I worked at a place that looked after young single mums who had been thrown out by their families. I can give you the contacts and go see for yourself.

Could you please give me the contact? And your organization have any research to find out reason "What is the main reason for this phenomenon?". I want to know more about this. My observation is not enough.

Now, the number of condom store is exploring but it is still hard. I think that the most important thing is not about the number, but about the mindset. Many Vietnamese people I know, they are still so biased about sex, even to themselves. For example, my friend wanted to refresh sex between her and her husbands. But when she thought about this, another idea comes "Does it make me become a whore in my husband's viewpoint?". Based on some researches I know, not many women in Viet Nam really enjoy sex because of some barriers like that. It is becoming better and better in the next generations but prejudice is still so strong in this country. And because 80% of people in Viet Nam living in rural ares so you could imagine that we could not expect something happen so fast. It is just fast in big cities. We have to be patient.

VungTauDon wrote:

I've heard some of the stories about the quality of the sex education also. Its very very basic at best

Yes, That is the reason why there are many sex education programs for students. And internet is very convenient because they could ask questions about sex without letting anyone know about it in some big forums or access to necessary information. They just need to know how to clear history from Chrome or Fire fox .

But there are something funny that knowledge about sex of Vietnamese student I know is not so well organized. They know why they need condom and how to use it, but my friend who worked for sex education program for high school told me some questions such as:

- If I have sex by mouth, will I be pregnant?

- If I stand and have sex with my partner, we could not have baby, right?

- The bill will make me unable have a baby any more, right?

VungTauDon wrote:

Tong Tran wrote:

But, in this country, you are student and going to a medicine store to buy condom is usually quite hard because the way people look at you....And the rumour could start from this and spread to your parent's ears, especially in small cities, people know each others a lots.

This sounds a lot like the US back in the 50's and early 60's

That's what I mentioned earlier, Vietnamese just following the old US culture (don't want to say culture ).

Not too hard to find, just do a search on the internet.

http://english.vov.vn/Society/Vietnames … 258892.vovhttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archiv … r/10032210

http://namviet-news.blogspot.com/2012/1 … cause.html

I think your race is Vietnamese. How come you look down  Vietnamese girls like that. Not many Vietnamese girls is like what you said. Its just a small group and we also discourage them. You know though you were talking a lot but they are just empty words. How much do you understant a Vietnamese girl? And also, Vietnam is now not a poorest country in the world, we are developing and to many Vietnamese people, money is now not a problem. Please think carefuly before you talk and please, respect Vietnamese since at least your father 's also a Vietnamese
Thanks!

tien.tran wrote:

When a foreigner come to Viet Nam and is looking for a date, girls/women immediately see you as an ATM machine! Imagine living in one of the poorest country in the world and wanting to have a good life, wouldn't you do the same?  I've visited VN each year to see my father who is retired in VN and each time, I see a young Vietnamese girl in the arm of an American/European guy. 

They all want to get married so that their family can SECURE a good financial future!!!  BE CAREFUL, I see in many cases that they use "black magic" to seduce foreign man to love them and give them ALL of their money.  Obviously the man would feel a strange type of love but he cannot help himself by pleasing the woman. There was one incident in 2011 when I was at the bank and I see a young European guy with an ugly vietnamese girl together. The guy would add her name to his bank account. This happens in Viet Nam and ESPECIALLY Cambodia. 

My advice to young foreign men.  BE CAREFUL!!!!

Angie172 wrote:

I think your race is Vietnamese. How come you look down  Vietnamese girls like that. Not many Vietnamese girls is like what you said. Its just a small group and we also discourage them.

Yes, that minority, all over the world, not only in Vietnam, makes disgrace for the nation and other good people! When some strangers offer something never fall for that. You can see from this forum some one ask in that way, such as "Can I join with you", "can we drink beer" (imagine the rest!)Even if nobody offer they want 'that'.

Well, it's right! Charmavietnam,
As others mentioned above, I think he found girls at wrong places. He will find it not easy to have a good girl who is willing to date for long time to understand each other before getting married at bars or clubs.
When he got a girl there, she would want to marry with him within a week because of his pocket. But its just minority and it's all over the world for sure. Some foreigners just hang out with that kind of girls (maybe, they dont know those girls' purposes at the first time), they would never understand the true value of traditional Vietnamese girls. Consequently, they fail to disappoint with them. I think that's their problem not Vietnamese's problem.
I believe foreigners still could find good girls for dating at workplaces, language centers or joining social activities...

charmavietnam wrote:

Yes, that minority, all over the world, not only in Vietnam, makes disgrace for the nation and other good people! When some strangers offer something never fall for that. You can see from this forum some one ask in that way, such as "Can I join with you", "can we drink beer" (imagine the rest!)Even if nobody offer they want 'that'.

Good girls are in everywhere. Smart men will know who is who.

Angie172 wrote:

Not many Vietnamese girls is like what you said. Its just a small group and we also discourage them.

The fact is Angie there are a lot of girls like that. They know where the foreign guys go and they know how to approach them and talk with them.
Most men come to Vietnam to work or on business. Most don't come here looking for a wife or a girlfriend (some do but they are in the minority) I came to Vietnam to work and got lucky and met my wife and decided to stay here.
It is no coincidence that on every expat website dealing with SEA that there are always topics on men who are cheated by the local women. Are all women like this? No, of course not but many times the only women that make the effort to meet the foreign guys are the ones who want to get at his money.

kiku_hana wrote:

Good girls are in everywhere. Smart men will know who is who.

There are not a lot of smart men after a couple gin and tonics

Yes, I agree with you. Not many people could have a sense of justice like you, I think. Wish you're always happy with your wife

VungTauDon wrote:

The fact is Angie there are a lot of girls like that. They know where the foreign guys go and they know how to approach them and talk with them.
Most men come to Vietnam to work or on business. Most don't come here looking for a wife or a girlfriend (some do but they are in the minority) I came to Vietnam to work and got lucky and met my wife and decided to stay here.
It is no coincidence that on every expat website dealing with SEA that there are always topics on men who are cheated by the local women. Are all women like this? No, of course not but many times the only women that make the effort to meet the foreign guys are the ones who want to get at his money.

@VungTauDon: They may not look for a wife or a girl friend but they want a girl for fun, happy time and no strings...and I am sure they know where to meet such girls...no wonder supply and demand come together.

I know there are Viet girls (not money hungry girls) who are usually present in the places frequented by foreigners. That's quite strange but fair...No pain, no gain. I personally see them brave as in stead of passively waiting for what they want, they actively seek for it.

VungTauDon wrote:

Angie172 wrote:

Not many Vietnamese girls is like what you said. Its just a small group and we also discourage them.

The fact is Angie there are a lot of girls like that. They know where the foreign guys go and they know how to approach them and talk with them.
Most men come to Vietnam to work or on business. Most don't come here looking for a wife or a girlfriend (some do but they are in the minority) I came to Vietnam to work and got lucky and met my wife and decided to stay here.
It is no coincidence that on every expat website dealing with SEA that there are always topics on men who are cheated by the local women. Are all women like this? No, of course not but many times the only women that make the effort to meet the foreign guys are the ones who want to get at his money.

I agree with you that there are a lots of girls/ women like that, not only in Viet Nam but Malaysia, Indo, Thailand... On Youtube, I saw TV shows/ short document films about men who are cheated by local women. My friend in Malaysia could not find any girl friend because he doesn't like Muslim, India and Chinese girls in Malay saw him as an ATM machine, credit card.. blah.

But there are a lots of girl who doesn't like Vietnamese man because they have bad experiences to them or they want to find something that most of Vietnamese men could not satisfy them. For example, most of foreign man think that their "DUTY" is "SHARING" housework with their partner. But many Vietnamese man still think that they "SHOULD HELP" their partner. There is a big difference between: "DUTY - SHARING" and "SHOULD HELP".

And one more thing important is that Western and Asia have difference mindset about money for lover/ wife. Because in my culture, there is a popular thought that the men should cover for his lover/ wife...When couple is married, the men often receive burden about earning for living than the women.

If the women could not earn money and stay at home, it is often accepted. But if the men earn less than women or stay at home while his wife is so fabulous with career path. It will be a very big problem and  hard to deal between men and women. In the family, men and women usually don't have separate bank accounts, they will often have only one bank account for both of them (And in many cases I know, men and women have black accounts that their partner doesn't know). And at the end of the month, men often will give most of his salary for women. Because we have a popular thought that women is better at managing money.

My friend dated with a American for the first time and she doesn't continue with him for the second time because in our culture, boy usually cover for girl at the first date. But American boy shared the bill with her so she felt confused. Her thought is not bad,it just starts from the habits, life style in our country. She is used to it and so when she met something strange, different but she didn't have enough knowledge to deal, she felt confused.

There are many kinds of girls in my country, sometimes, they could become a bad girl in your eyes at the first time just because of the difference in culture, life style.

Hi, I'm new here but I want to put my two cents.

I think the number of materialistic Vietnamese girls are very small. (Of course I'm a Vietnamese girl so I think I need to have a voice to defend our reputation). However, foreigners are the easy target of these girls so foreigners may seem to meet these girls often and as the result, you may have a perception that there are many girls like that, which I think it's a wrong perception.

As for good girls, I do think that the dating cultures here are very different from the dating culture of the western world. It will be easier for you if you can find Vietnamese girls who have high education level or who have been exposed to the outside world of different cultures. They will have their own independent life and they are less influenced by society pressure to get married.