Building supplies and stuff

James-Esq wrote:

Navigating through the personalities that make up 'the trades' requires a Phd in the subject to be even half-right, half the time, with your choice of contractor. Managing trades is a learned skill.
James

I worked as an union electrician in Seattle, so I've seen this from the other side. I have to agree with you. Tradesmen, especially folks in the more technical trades like, electricians and plumbers, are a bunch of drama queens.

jessekimmerling wrote:

I worked as an union electrician in Seattle, so I've seen this from the other side. I have to agree with you. Tradesmen, especially folks in the more technical trades like, electricians and plumbers, are a bunch of drama queens.

Excellent. Electrical is the only thing i don't do (I just call one of my cousins, many are electricians).

James-Esq wrote:

Electrical is the only thing i don't do

There it is, publicly and in writing!  I'll have the drywall delivered ASAP.  When can you start?



John

LeftClique wrote:

James-Esq wrote:

Electrical is the only thing i don't do

There it is, publicly and in writing!  I'll have the drywall delivered ASAP.  When can you start?



John

hahaha...fooled ya, I got all the drywall tools too. My taping is good, but I am slow. And, being a carpenter, my board goes on PERFECTLY! as i'm sure you will appreciate! 

Here's an interesting and cheap building technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK74LFiBQFk

James-Esq wrote:

I got all the drywall tools too. My taping is good, but I am slow. And, being a carpenter, my board goes on PERFECTLY! as i'm sure you will appreciate!

I dang sure do appreciate it.  I'm tired of the drywall guys making fun of me for using a scribe to mark cuts.  The joints are supposed to be air-tight before you tape, right?

John

jessekimmerling wrote:

Here's an interesting and cheap building technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK74LFiBQFk

I like it!  Imaginative use of local materials.  Looks like a concrete slab foundation, but I'd like to see it up higher to keep it out of the damp.  I assume you have plenty of bamboo, but do you have good clay?

John

LeftClique wrote:

I assume you have plenty of bamboo, but do you have good clay?

That's the million dollar question. There's not enough clay in the topsoil. A few kilometers from the property I looked at what was underneath the top`soil. It looked like rich red clay, but it crumbled and didn't stick together like high clay content soil. I need to take samples from several different places on my property to know what I've got to work with.

Don't know if any of you guys have ever watched Gran Designs Australia, but they usually have a few episodes each season with some unusual designs that use a variety of different building materials. Not sure in reality how practical some of the houses they do are long term, but there are some pretty cool ideas.

jessekimmerling wrote:

Here's an interesting and cheap building technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK74LFiBQFk

Very interesting video, thanks. I was especially interested in their framing design. Looks like post and beam (obviously), so there's no need for window or door headers, jack studs, criples,etc. Seems 99% likely they use a chain saw for the posts and beams.

Could not see how they tie in the horizontal bamboo lengths to the posts. Do they even use nails on the frame? Doubtful..

Using this method, the costs would be extraordinarily low. I could imagine falling a handful of trees that are roughly 12" at the butt and getting say four posts out of a 10 foot length. One guy on a chain saw could probably cut all the posts in one day, and the next day cut the beams, and on day three, the rafters.

Structure might take a few days to frame.

Say one week, two or three guys to tie in all the bamboo walls.

There's probably no such thing as a building inspector.

Yep, so in a poor Rural area, you're looking at $400 labor if you're generous, the cost of the cement for the foundation, and the cost of the tin for the roof. That's assuming, like me, you've got the bamboo and trees on your land. Then, it's just fixtures, plumbing, and electrical. I think we're looking at a basic $2000 to $6000 house (not counting the cost of the land)depending on how cheap you are with the trim.

About a month ago someone on these forums lost their cool because they couldn't find a $20000 house for their mom. Seems to me, as long as you like living in quiet rural areas, you can knock out a simple house for a lot less than that.

jessekimmerling wrote:

Yep, so in a poor Rural area, you're looking at $400 labor if you're generous, the cost of the cement for the foundation, and the cost of the tin for the roof. That's assuming, like me, you've got the bamboo and trees on your land. Then, it's just fixtures, plumbing, and electrical. I think we're looking at a basic $2000 to $6000 house (not counting the cost of the land)depending on how cheap you are with the trim.

About a month ago someone on these forums lost their cool because they couldn't find a $20000 house for their mom. Seems to me, as long as you like living in quiet rural areas, you can knock out a simple house for a lot less than that.

Ya, I was guessing 5K could build a small mansion, especially if I arrived with my framing gear, chain saw, tools, and a case of scotch.. second thought, two cases.

James-Esq wrote:

Could not see how they tie in the horizontal bamboo lengths to the posts. Do they even use nails on the frame? ......There's probably no such thing as a building inspector.

Details?  Jimmy me lad, I couldn't see squat.  Some posts seemed to be salvaged boards, but others looked like old angle iron.  I assume the window and door frames were spiked into the bamboo ends, but who knows?  I got the impression some of the structure had been in place for quite a while, since there was a working hearth/stove and a tile roof in place.  I feel pretty good about the strength of the walls, but I'd feel better if I knew they were keyed into the slab.  All in all, for a seat-of-the-pants effort using, literally, dirt, I'm very impressed.

Re building inspectors: I doubt Jesse will ever see one out where he is, but as one might expect, I'm told the closer one is to a town or city, the more regulations there are.  That said, an expat couple on the coast I've come to know bought a small existing house, remodeled it extensively, and did not need any permits or inspections at all.

John

j600rr wrote:

Don't know if any of you guys have ever watched Gran Designs Australia, but they usually have a few episodes each season with some unusual designs that use a variety of different building materials. Not sure in reality how practical some of the houses they do are long term, but there are some pretty cool ideas.

Thanks for the heads-up.  I found a ton of their vids, but, as usual when I get on YouTube, I got distracted by New Order and watching Peter Hook play lead bass guitar.  I'm just kidding, mostly.  Do you read Fine Homebuilding magazine?  It's great, and their 2013 "best houses" issue is very good.

John

jessekimmerling wrote:

assuming, like me, you've got the bamboo and trees on your land. Then, it's just fixtures, plumbing, and electrical. I think we're looking at a basic $2000 to $6000 house

Being a gnarly carpenter type and all, I don't want to come across as an effete bourgeois fop, but what about varmints and comforts?

Let's say you build a tidy little bamboo/clay house.  Don't you need screening for mosquitoes?  Will birds try to nest in the roof?  Are termites a problem?  What kind of toilet/waste system do you plan on?  Do you know rain on a tin roof is deafening?

Brother, I don't mean to pick on you or be negative, I'm just asking.

John

LeftClique wrote:

Do you know rain on a tin roof is deafening?

John

Yes, I was thinking the same. And in the cloud forest, I have to imagine it rains everyday, buckets.

LeftClique wrote:

Details?  Jimmy me lad, I couldn't see squat.  Some posts seemed to be salvaged boards, but others looked like old angle iron.

You saw that too...i wasn't sure, but it did look like angle iron.

but I'd feel better if I knew they were keyed into the slab.

I was thinking the same. For a moment i was imaging an 8" slab with the posts anchored into it, perhaps on a site near the side of a hill, such that if there was a record rainfall and landslide the slab could slide down the hill like a boat hull, with the posts intact, floating the house.

That said, an expat couple on the coast I've come to know bought a small existing house, remodeled it extensively, and did not need any permits or inspections at all.

Not surprised. Well, i guess that's reason enough right there to want to sleep under your own roof, one that you built!

James-Esq wrote:

LeftClique wrote:

Do you know rain on a tin roof is deafening?

John

Yes, I was thinking the same. And in the cloud forest, I have to imagine it rains everyday, buckets.

So far, almost no rain, just lots of fog. I actually like the sound of rain on a tin roof as long as it isn't every day day after day. It's not like I have to get up early for work.

LeftClique wrote:

jessekimmerling wrote:

assuming, like me, you've got the bamboo and trees on your land. Then, it's just fixtures, plumbing, and electrical. I think we're looking at a basic $2000 to $6000 house

Being a gnarly carpenter type and all, I don't want to come across as an effete bourgeois fop, but what about varmints and comforts?

Let's say you build a tidy little bamboo/clay house.  Don't you need screening for mosquitoes?  Will birds try to nest in the roof?  Are termites a problem?  What kind of toilet/waste system do you plan on?  Do you know rain on a tin roof is deafening?

Brother, I don't mean to pick on you or be negative, I'm just asking.

John

No worries. Those are valid constructive questions. For the first rough cabin I was going to keep it real simple and use an outdoor shower and composting toilet. After I'm settled in and have time to do things right, the other cabins will have Ecuadorian style septic systems (cheap and dirty... literaly). Pests... will be a problem. When we stayed in the neighbor's cabin we got swarmed with moths at night, and they kept a couple cats and dogs for a reason. Mosquitos weren't bad at all. Of course, I plan on using screens and filling the gap between the walls and the roof, unlike half the Ecuadorian houses I've seen. From the perspective of the locals, the big problem pest is the spectacled bears, because they raid their corn fields.

jessekimmerling wrote:

It's not like I have to get up early for work.

  Good point.

James-Esq wrote:

For a moment i was imaging an 8" slab with the posts anchored into it, perhaps on a site near the side of a hill, such that if there was a record rainfall and landslide the slab could slide down the hill like a boat hull, with the posts intact, floating the house

It's a small house, one story, light loads and catastrophic failure is unlikely, but, man, I hear you.  The ins and outs of platform framing are as familiar to me as breathing, but this is a different ball game entirely.  It's guess work.

A few months ago, I came across a blog with photographs of a large two story house being built into a coastal hillside.  The concrete work terrified me.  Thin slabs on spindly columns, questionable rebar, cold joints galore, no lateral support whatsoever.  I immediately responded and voiced my concern, but was told, "An architect is involved and this is the way it is done in Ecuador."  Maybe so, but I wouldn't set foot in the place.  I'll send you a link by private message.

John

LeftClique wrote:

"An architect is involved and this is the way it is done in Ecuador."  Maybe so, but I wouldn't set foot in the place.  I'll send you a link by private message.

John

hehe.. how many architects have you met that have actually framed a house..even just one house. I'll stick with engineers.

I actually know one, but he was 'only' a designer,  a good man, knew his stuff.

As we grow up in that trade, we learn quickly that the framer is the only guy on the job that really understands what holds the roof up. And he'd better understand that perfectly well.

Just wait til you guys check out the typical electrical, and plumbing jobs in homes. Now that's scary. Think Jesse actually mentioned something about the electrical work in another thread.

John, the phrase "that's just the way things are done here is common." Doesn't matter if there are better, and safer ways. If that's the way they learned it, then that's the way their doing it. Best advice is tell them you want it done your way or you'll get someone else. It's not really a knock. The building trades, and most other trades are just years behind what we are used to.

j600rr wrote:

Just wait til you guys check out the typical electrical, and plumbing jobs in homes. Now that's scary. Think Jesse actually mentioned something about the electrical work in another thread.

John, the phrase "that's just the way things are done here is common." Doesn't matter if there are better, and safer ways. If that's the way they learned it, then that's the way their doing it. Best advice is tell them you want it done your way or you'll get someone else. It's not really a knock. The building trades, and most other trades are just years behind what we are used to.

The electrical here's not great, but as far as 3rd world electrical work goes, it's about middle of the road. Yes, you'll find exposed live wires, sometimes in the shower, yes they undersized breakers, yes they like to cut up extension cords and use them for permanent wiring. I've seen much worse though. I had a house in Kabul that would of burned to the ground if it wasn't for the 12" thick concrete walls. It had one wall that was so hot you could cook eggs on it (well, not really, since it was a wall) because the wiring had melted inside the wall and the circuit breakers had all been bypassed, or there was the generator that some smart but misguided army kid rewired, at some point disabling several safety features. The metal frame of the generator was energized, the ground wire was energized, the metal of the building it fed was energized, and the ground around the generator was energized. The only reason it never managed to kill anybody was that there wasn't enough difference of potential within touching distance.

Ringing endorsement.  Ecuador electrical wiring, better than Kabul.  Those of you trying to decide between the two, this is very useful information.

It's all in the hands of Allah.

Judee wrote:

It's all in the hands of Allah.

Non sequiturs?

John

Wiring in Kabul?

Judee, it sounds like you're framiar with the attitudes in that part if the world.

I taught in Lebanon and Oman. And there's an attitude of "it's up to God"...sort of a variation on "hees not my job" attitude.

I shouldn't have commented it's just such a mind blowing comparison Ecuador to Kabul... I couldn't resist.

I actually see many similarities..."tomorrow God willing"... sound familiar?

I am enjoying the boys chat. Hope you all don't mind.

Judee wrote:

I am enjoying the boys chat. Hope you all don't mind.

Sure, bring your tools, and/or drawings, and pull up a chair.
Armchair construction is so much fun!

That said, I may never again take another indoors shower in Latin America...

James-Esq wrote:

Judee wrote:

I am enjoying the boys chat. Hope you all don't mind.

Sure, bring your tools, and/or drawings, and pull up a chair.
Armchair construction is so much fun!

That said, I may never again take another indoors shower in Latin America...

Oh man you guys haven't lived until you've taken a suicide shower. That being said I have taken enough of them in my life. The subject was fresh on my mind because was flipping around on channels last night, and had a house hunters international in Ecuador (Puerto Cayo). The one house they went into the bathroom, and the guys eyes got real big once he saw the wiring on the shower head. The other house there was exposed wires everywhere. It brought back a lot of memories.

By the way will choose Ecuador over Kabul. Do I win the prize?

Judee wrote:

I shouldn't have commented it's just such a mind blowing comparison Ecuador to Kabul

No, please, dive in whenever you want.  I just couldn't figure out where you were coming from earlier, but I see now.

John

Judee wrote:

It's all in the hands of Allah.

I immediately thought of how the Afghans thought that about wearing seat-belts. They'd get totally offended if you used your seat-belt. Ecuadorians will at least sometimes wear seat-belts in the front seats, but I can't, for the life of me, get them to see the need for seat-belts in the back seats.

j600rr wrote:

By the way will choose Ecuador over Kabul. Do I win the prize?

Yes, you get to keep your head. I think we all choose Ecuador over Kabul.

Tell them that if the folks in the back don't wear them they could kill the folks in the front when they're thrown forward.

Thanks John. I appreciate that.
Judy

I love reading what you guys write... going through the thought process really fascinates me.

Judee wrote:

Tell them that if the folks in the back don't wear them they could kill the folks in the front when they're thrown forward.

Funny, that's exactly what I said. They scoffed at the idea.

Who knew swinging a machete all day was so damn hard? I cleared a path through the bamboo jungle down to the small pond on my property. Tomorrow I've got a couple guys coming out to clear one hectare of this damn bamboo. They're charging me $200 since they have to walk an hour and a half to get there and there's no way to bring in any heavy equipment.

I really need to find a better way in and out of my property. I can see a decent trail way off in the distance that looks like it would be fine on a motorcycle. Now, if I can just figure out a way to get there.

jessekimmerling wrote:

j600rr wrote:

By the way will choose Ecuador over Kabul. Do I win the prize?

Yes, you get to keep your head. I think we all choose Ecuador over Kabul.

And yet there are many white Christians, agnostics and atheists who choose to live on Muslim Mindanao as opposed to any of the other 7,000 islands in the Philippines.