Why don't Vietnamese understand Vietnamese spoken by a foreigner?

Ciambella wrote:

MarkinNam wrote:

No Emmy, i think it’s closer to 90%, Vietnamese I’ve had dealings with simply aren’t able to, 2, not flexible when allowing for miss pronounced words and interpret correct words given the sentence and context of that sentence to predict the correct words, ( See o/p reply )

There are *so many* cases in which Vietnamese cannot interpret a foreigner's mispronounced words to give them the correct meaning even within the context.  I'm going through this several times a week with my husband. 

For instance, a few days ago he came to me saying "What does 'thang' mean?" I asked him how the word was used in the sentence, and he said, "I asked KA if she needed my help, I didn't understand her answer but I think she said something to do with 'thang'."

I spent 10 minutes going through the entire lists of words close to 'thang' with every accent conceivable.  Thang as ladder?  Tháng as month? Thẳng as straight? Thắng as a brake or to reduce a sauce? Thằng as a lad? Thành as a ledge? Thạch as jelly? Thông as clear? Thính as rice powder? Thỉnh as invite? etc and etc.

After about dozens of different pronunciations and word choices, he was about to give up when I finally said,  "Is is 'thùng'?  Do you think she wanted you to bring her a bucket?"

Yes, she did.  And no, 'thang' and 'thùng' are not at all similar in the pronunciation.

Another case, this one happens almost daily:  It always takes me a minute or two to know whether my husband says niece/nephew (cháu), congee (cháo), frying pan (chảo), or fermented tofu (chao).  Given the context of dining, any of those words would make sense, but only one of them is what he wants to express.

In short, it's quite impossible at times for Vietnamese to guess what a non-Vietnamese tries to say.

In relation to your answer, if I was in a road side shop in the back blocks of the Mekong Delta, and the shop sold just six types of drinks, I say "cho tôi tra xanh," to the owner. How many possibilities that tra xanh could be something other than one of those six drinks.

After 10 months here, I finally ended up in a karaoke place for the first time a few nights ago. It was about as traumatic as I was expecting, but also quite educational linguistically, as I got to study the amped up pronunciation  of the on-screen lyrics.

That the Vietnamese just don't expect a foreigner to emit any of their own moon lingo is certainly part of it, I experience moments of confusion sometimes before I realise that my girlfiend is talking her own sweet version of English to me, but I've come to the conclusion that unless you learn Vietnamese young, you're doomed.

It's fundamentally different at the physical level, in the way that the sounds are formed and aspirated. Different way of using your whole vocal apparatus. Coming at it in later life is a brick wall that most foreigners will never overcome however hard they try.

And it's not that I'm tone deaf, if I know the vocab I can understand plenty of Vietnamese when spoken by others, and the grammer is very straightforward... and it is often an eye opener if they think that the gormless looking vampire in earshot doesn't grok their lewd chatter 

Brick23 wrote:

After 10 months here, I finally ended up in a karaoke place for the first time a few nights ago. It was about as traumatic as I was expecting, but also quite educational linguistically, as I got to study the amped up pronunciation  of the on-screen lyrics.

That the Vietnamese just don't expect a foreigner to emit any of their own moon lingo is certainly part of it, I experience moments of confusion sometimes before I realise that my girlfiend is talking her own sweet version of English to me, but I've come to the conclusion that unless you learn Vietnamese young, you're doomed.

It's fundamentally different at the physical level, in the way that the sounds are formed and aspirated. Different way of using your whole vocal apparatus. Coming at it in later life is a brick wall that most foreigners will never overcome however hard they try.

And it's not that I'm tone deaf, if I know the vocab I can understand plenty of Vietnamese when spoken by others, and the grammer is very straightforward... and it is often an eye opener if they think that the gormless looking vampire in earshot doesn't grok their lewd chatter 

my take on it...........
so when my GF speaks her version of English to me, sometimes I have to think a few seconds to understand what she is saying & then I get it. Anyone else would find it difficult I think. For example we walk in the park every morning & she will say "oh honey look at the butterlan" now I understand she means butterfly & accept a butterfly is a butterlan!

but on the other hand if I say a word in Vietnamese & get it wrong, its like impossible for her to think out of the box for a few seconds & understand what I am saying! For example the holiday TET, I say to her T E T, .......blank look like "whats he on about"

Anyways your first visit to a KARAOKE joint! hope you came out with your hearing intact & at least some of them could actually sing!

goodolboy wrote:

my take on it...........
so when my GF speaks her version of English to me, sometimes I have to think a few seconds to understand what she is saying & then I get it. Anyone else would find it difficult I think. For example we walk in the park every morning & she will say "oh honey look at the butterlan" now I understand she means butterfly & accept a butterfly is a butterlan!

but on the other hand if I say a word in Vietnamese & get it wrong, its like impossible for her to think out of the box for a few seconds & understand what I am saying! For example the holiday TET, I say to her T E T, .......blank look like "whats he on about"

Anyways your first visit to a KARAOKE joint! hope you came out with your hearing intact & at least some of them could actually sing!

As native English speakers though, I think we're much more accustomed to our language being mangled by non-native speakers, we're better practiced at decyphering their efforts. And English pronunciation is about 100x more forgiving anyway, there's simply more data to work with generally, with longer words.

Yeah actually I enjoyed the karaoke, one of them could actually yodel pretty well, and maybe because I'm half deaf in one ear anyway so only one side of my brain got the full monty.

colinoscapee wrote:

In relation to your answer, if I was in a road side shop in the back blocks of the Mekong Delta, and the shop sold just six types of drinks, I say "cho tôi tra xanh," to the owner. How many possibilities that tra xanh could be something other than one of those six drinks.

That certainly is antagonizing. I've heard trà xanh multiple times in multiple accents and the ones spoken by non-Vietnamese are actually easier to recognised than by some areas in the Central.

goodolboy wrote:

For example the holiday TET, I say to her T E T, .......blank look like "whats he on about"

The word Tết: 99.9% of non-Vietnamese including ALL the news media in the US and UK pronounce it as the first 3 letters in tetra.  After decades of trying to correct my husband, I finally came up with a better example the other day, "Remember the Tate Museum in London?  Say it like that, but make both Ts short and hard."  He now can pronounce it much closer to the Vietnamese word  but still not with the hard T as there's no such creature in the English language.

Ciambella wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

In relation to your answer, if I was in a road side shop in the back blocks of the Mekong Delta, and the shop sold just six types of drinks, I say "cho tôi tra xanh," to the owner. How many possibilities that tra xanh could be something other than one of those six drinks.

That certainly is antagonizing. I've heard trà xanh multiple times in multiple accents and the ones spoken by non-Vietnamese are actually easier to recognised than by some areas in the Central.

goodolboy wrote:

For example the holiday TET, I say to her T E T, .......blank look like "whats he on about"

The word Tết: 99.9% of non-Vietnamese including ALL the news media in the US and UK pronounce it as the first 3 letters in tetra.  After decades of trying to correct my husband, I finally said the other day, "Remember the Tate Museum in London?  Say it like that, but make the T short and hard."  He now can pronounce it much better but not with the hard T as there's no such creature in the English language.

 

She is from Mekong & best I I can describe it she says taat. Her home is Cai Be & thats how I sort of say it, she sort of says Kaa Baa. 

MatthiasB wrote:

It's not just the northern/southern/central sounds, nor the accents. It's the cadence of the language. Without a natural flow (as emmy.vn points out, the gaps), it's difficult for native speakers to properly identify the sound clusters that differentiate between words. In other words, if you don't pause for just the right amount of time between syllables, it becomes muddy, and difficult to decipher. It's almost as important as the tones.

This is true for any non-native language, and particularly true for native English speakers attempting to communicate in romance languages, as the cadence is completely different. My wife's French is easily understood, despite her sometimes poor pronunciation, as she lived in France and she just "sounds right".

.   Very good point

Just contemplating that this whole thing is a guy thing, ever had a time when the significant others birthday was approaching and you ask what would you like dear, hoping she won’t reply “ YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT I WANT “ then when she tells you exactly what she wants ur so over whelmed that you didn’t really hear it? Do women have this communication problem ?  that Is English speaking women using tieng viet? Just a thought

MarkinNam wrote:

Do women have this communication problem ?  that Is English speaking women using tieng viet? Just a thought

One of my nephews' wife, an American born of Dutch heritage, doesn't have any problem speaking to her mother-in-law (my sister) in Vietnamese.  It could've been because she's married into the family a few years after college when she's still young enough to learn the language and brave enough to tackle the nuances of pronunciation.

The other nephew married to a first generation Austrian-American who was in her early 40s when she entered the marriage (which has now ended in a divorce), and she had quite a bit of problems with the Vietnamese language.  It could've been because of her age or her difficult relationship with her in-laws that made her unwilling to learn a language only used in the family occasionally.

My women expat friends here, a Dutch and an Australian, seem to pronounce Vietnamese easier than their husbands.

If a Vietnamese language learner is speaking with a Vietnamese native, it's pretty useful if/when the native repeats back to you what you've said in his/her own pronunciation.

e.g. I was returning to my apartment after shopping a few days ago, and upon seeing the manager of building. I said 'mua hang' in indicate that I've been shopping. He then repeated back 'mua hàng' and I immediately realised his 'hàng' was different to mine.

sanooku wrote:

If a Vietnamese language learner is speaking with a Vietnamese native, it's pretty useful if/when the native repeats back to you what you've said in his/her own pronunciation.

I've been doing that all the times with my husband since we moved to VN (for more than 2 decades before that, he had no reason to learn Vietnamese as we all spoke the languages he knew.) 

Anyway, to "reward" me for my tenacity, sometimes he repeated the words, other times he said "Yeah, that too."

Such extraordinary eagerness.

colinoscapee wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

MarkinNam wrote:

No Emmy, i think it’s closer to 90%, Vietnamese I’ve had dealings with simply aren’t able to, 2, not flexible when allowing for miss pronounced words and interpret correct words given the sentence and context of that sentence to predict the correct words, ( See o/p reply )

There are *so many* cases in which Vietnamese cannot interpret a foreigner's mispronounced words to give them the correct meaning even within the context.  I'm going through this several times a week with my husband. 

For instance, a few days ago he came to me saying "What does 'thang' mean?" I asked him how the word was used in the sentence, and he said, "I asked KA if she needed my help, I didn't understand her answer but I think she said something to do with 'thang'."

I spent 10 minutes going through the entire lists of words close to 'thang' with every accent conceivable.  Thang as ladder?  Tháng as month? Thẳng as straight? Thắng as a brake or to reduce a sauce? Thằng as a lad? Thành as a ledge? Thạch as jelly? Thông as clear? Thính as rice powder? Thỉnh as invite? etc and etc.

After about dozens of different pronunciations and word choices, he was about to give up when I finally said,  "Is is 'thùng'?  Do you think she wanted you to bring her a bucket?"

Yes, she did.  And no, 'thang' and 'thùng' are not at all similar in the pronunciation.

Another case, this one happens almost daily:  It always takes me a minute or two to know whether my husband says niece/nephew (cháu), congee (cháo), frying pan (chảo), or fermented tofu (chao).  Given the context of dining, any of those words would make sense, but only one of them is what he wants to express.

In short, it's quite impossible at times for Vietnamese to guess what a non-Vietnamese tries to say.

In relation to your answer, if I was in a road side shop in the back blocks of the Mekong Delta, and the shop sold just six types of drinks, I say "cho tôi tra xanh," to the owner. How many possibilities that tra xanh could be something other than one of those six drinks.

yeah, but if the shop was somewhere else and they also sold other produce, and the word 'trà' was mispronounced as 'Chả', you could be offered some sort of green roll (sausage).

There's actually a shop called 'Tiệm Giò Chả Xanh'. They have a facebook page.

1.  Vietnam and the countries that border China have a "face" culture and they will do everything to AVOID losing face. The losing face culture is so ingrained into the Vietnamese people since childhood that they do not even realize their current behavior is dictated by the need to avoid losing face.

They will recognize the big behaviors they do to avoid losing face (ie go to college to avoid being labeled "uneducated") but they will not recognize the smaller actions like they did with you at the checkout line to avoid losing face.  The smaller actions that take place throughout the day to avoid losing face is so frequent that they will not remember or even realize it even when you bring it to their attention or inquire them about it. If you ask them, "Did you just remain silent and not answer me to save face in front of everyone?" they will just look at you weird and think "What is he talking about?"

2.  The primary reason the cashier did not respond to you is... If she responds to you once & you decide to continue the conversation in english (or vietnamese) and she doesn't understand it, then she will appear uneducated in front of other vietnamese and lose massive "face".  Therefore the easiest default response to protect her face is to just ignore what you said and not respond at all.

3.  The 2nd reason is most vietnamese are not good "listeners" when talking to strangers outside their family, friends, coworkers, etc.  Being educated is extremely important in vietnam this is why we have one of the highest literacy rates in the world. Uneducated people are considered very lower class and lose a ton of face in society.  Therefore, it is extremely important for vietnamese to always be educated or "appear" educated.  You can tell they are not listening to you in a conversation by anticipating what you are about to say and jump to conclusions very often about what you want or need. Even when you tell them in vietnamese or english to stop anticipating what you are about to say and actually LISTEN to what you are saying they will still jump to conclusions before you finish talking.  They do this to show how smart or intelligent they are but it actually hurts the conversation because it's frustrating when they do not hear and pay attention to what you are saying.  Again, they do this to have face because if they can guess what u say correctly before you say it, then it makes them look smart and educated. This is why vietnamese people struggle to sell their products & services to foreigners because they are not very good at listening skills due to the saving face culture.

4.  The 3rd reason is that you lose a lot of face in vietnam (and asia) when you ASK QUESTIONS.  When you ask a question, it shows you do not know, when you do not know, you are uneducated, when you are uneducated, you lose face in society.  The cashier is afraid to respond for fear that you might say something she does not understand and forced to ask you what you just said and lose face in front of everyone.  This is why you rarely see one vietnamese asking another vietnamese ANY questions outside of small questions such as "how much does this fruit cost?" or "where is xyz street?".  Especially among vietnamese men (or any asian men) asking another vietnamese man a question signals you know less, therefore you are less educated, therefore you lose face.

There are 2 common occasions where it is okay to ask a question.  When it is a) "understood" that the other person is significantly more educated and knows a lot more and there is no dispute about it.  For example, if you are vietnamese, you will not PUBLICLY ask another vietnamese colleague of similar position at work a question. This would imply you do not know, if you do not know, this implies you are undeducated, if you are uneducated, you are inferior, therefore you lose face. However, it is ok for you to ask the manager or project leader because everyone knows he has a higher position, so no one will judge you for asking a question to someone that is obviously your superior. The 2nd occasion is when vietnamese people speak english (or any western language) to a western foreigner. Since there is no concept of losing face in the western culture, they know they will not lose face.  Actually, most vietnamese people DO NOT know that western culture does not have the concept of losing face, they just know that westerners do not communicate to them in a manner (ie in a condescending manner) to show they have lost face.

5. There is no equivalent concept in the west to the "losing face" concept in the east. There are certain concepts in the east that is extremely difficult for westerners to understand if they do not grow up in the country, speak the language, and spend ample time interacting with the people. 

Trying to explain the asian concept of "losing face" in vietnam to a westerner is as difficult as trying to explain the concept of the "underdog mentality" or the "machismo" concept in the USA to someone in asia.  They do not grow up with that concept since childhood like americans do so it is extremely difficult for them to understand it.

If you want to learn more about the saving face culture in vietnam, search for "Living in Vietnam, saving face, tai zen" on youtube and I explain it more.  I can not post the link here cuz I get censored when posting videos about vietnamese culture here by the moderators. Hope this helps you have better interactions in vietnam.

Tai Zen

I read your lengthy thoughts, and was surprised at your take. I have lived here for 12 years, am married to a Vietnamese woman and interact with Vietnamese at all levels. "Saving face" is not an Asian thing as is commonly thought. I have been around the world dozens of times, lived in half a dozen counties and have noticed the social weakness described - is everywhere. I am also as old as dirt and opinionated. I was wrong once before but can't remember when.

sanooku wrote:

I can see that naughty words are allowed if they are censored:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 60#4790974

Owing to this, I'm reposting my previous post after censoring the two middle letters (same as post on link above).

[Link Moderated]

I'm now reposting without ANY context. This could be 'love to learn vietnamese'...'love to dance'....'love to sing'..etc.

Why we shouldn't rely on google translate too much:

sanooku wrote:

I'm now reposting without ANY context. This could be 'love to learn vietnamese'...'love to dance'....'love to sing'..etc

Or MAYBE it means 'love to obsess'

sanooku wrote:

sanooku wrote:

I can see that naughty words are allowed if they are censored:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 60#4790974

Owing to this, I'm reposting my previous post after censoring the two middle letters (same as post on link above).

[Link Moderated]

I'm now reposting without ANY context. This could be 'love to learn vietnamese'...'love to dance'....'love to sing'..etc.

Why we shouldn't rely on google translate too much:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c98mqof09dphv … .png?raw=1

goodolboy - FYI

I can't quote your post while the link is under review, but I thought I'd give a Heads Up about a glitch on the site:

For some reason, if we post a link and then go back to edit our post, the link automatically goes under review when it's reposted.

I've reported this to ADMIN a few times but it seems it may be related to a security setting they aren't inclined to change.

Cheers!

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

goodolboy - FYI

I can't quote your post while the link is under review, but I thought I'd give a Heads Up about a glitch on the site:

For some reason, if we post a link and then go back to edit our post, the link automatically goes under review when it's reposted.

I've reported this to ADMIN a few times but it seems it may be related to a security setting they aren't inclined to change.

Cheers!

OK Thanks, basically its a copy & paste into google translate I did & typing what I think is exactly the same 3 Vietnamese words on the post of Sanooku it did not come out nothing like his translation. Try again.........

goodolboy wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

goodolboy - FYI

I can't quote your post while the link is under review, but I thought I'd give a Heads Up about a glitch on the site:

For some reason, if we post a link and then go back to edit our post, the link automatically goes under review when it's reposted.

I've reported this to ADMIN a few times but it seems it may be related to a security setting they aren't inclined to change.

Cheers!

OK Thanks, basically its a copy & paste into google translate I did & typing what I think is exactly the same 3 Vietnamese words on the post of Sanooku it did not come out nothing like his translation. Try again.........

https://i.postimg.cc/QBR03JxF/Capture-3.png

Not quite exactly. Pay attention to the tone marks.

sanooku wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

goodolboy - FYI

I can't quote your post while the link is under review, but I thought I'd give a Heads Up about a glitch on the site:

For some reason, if we post a link and then go back to edit our post, the link automatically goes under review when it's reposted.

I've reported this to ADMIN a few times but it seems it may be related to a security setting they aren't inclined to change.

Cheers!

OK Thanks, basically its a copy & paste into google translate I did & typing what I think is exactly the same 3 Vietnamese words on the post of Sanooku it did not come out nothing like his translation. Try again.........

https://i.postimg.cc/QBR03JxF/Capture-3.png

Not quite exactly. Pay attention to the tone marks.

Correct.

I took a screenshot and then imported the image into the Google Translate app.

The translation was the same crude/rude inference I had previously reported to ADMIN.

an now for a bit o a larf, why do Vietnamese & other foreigners not understand English spoken by an Englishman?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozpek_FrOPs

goodolboy wrote:

an now for a bit o a larf, why do Vietnamese & other foreigners not understand English spoken by an Englishman?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozpek_FrOPs

Great sketch.

Got any O's. 😀

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

sanooku wrote:

I'm now reposting without ANY context. This could be 'love to learn vietnamese'...'love to dance'....'love to sing'..etc

Or MAYBE it means 'love to obsess'

Correct. Or 'love to be decent'.

Just to follow up on this..Don't become too obsessed with the one word. Pay attention to the context.

Did you look into Vietnamese culture? They pride themselves on how difficult it is to speak Vietnamese. So while it could be your tone or a number of things but to some hearing a foreigner speaking their language could be insulting.

Demanda2006 wrote:

Did you look into Vietnamese culture? They pride themselves on how difficult it is to speak Vietnamese. So while it could be your tone or a number of things but to some hearing a foreigner speaking their language could be insulting.

Can you explain how it could be insulting.

colinoscapee wrote:

Demanda2006 wrote:

Did you look into Vietnamese culture? They pride themselves on how difficult it is to speak Vietnamese. So while it could be your tone or a number of things but to some hearing a foreigner speaking their language could be insulting.

Can you explain how it could be insulting.

Sounds like a French thing.

You must remember it is a tone language. same work with different tones mean different things. I learned that in Thailand. Very tough language.

colinoscapee wrote:

Demanda2006 wrote:

Did you look into Vietnamese culture? They pride themselves on how difficult it is to speak Vietnamese. So while it could be your tone or a number of things but to some hearing a foreigner speaking their language could be insulting.

Can you explain how it could be insulting.

That one was a drive by posting.

Techmo wrote:

You must remember it is a tone language. same work with different tones mean different things. I learned that in Thailand. Very tough language.

After obsessing about this conundrum for more than a decade I have noticed that tones have absolutely nothing to do with Vietnamese failing to understand their own language spoken by a native English speaker. It is the sound produced by another race that makes it difficult for them. In any culture some people are better singers than others and in the insular Vietnamese culture some people can deal with the differences in sound better than others.

A note on Karaoke, I fail to see why anyone would want to gather in a room to listen to people who can't sing and at a deafening volume. If you are educated you know the volume can cause permanent damage to the hearing apparatus.

I do believe wrote:

Techmo wrote:

You must remember it is a tone language. same work with different tones mean different things. I learned that in Thailand. Very tough language.

After obsessing about this conundrum for more than a decade I have noticed that tones have absolutely nothing to do with Vietnamese failing to understand their own language spoken by a native English speaker. It is the sound produced by another race that makes it difficult for them. In any culture some people are better singers than others and in the insular Vietnamese culture some people can deal with the differences in sound better than others.

A note on Karaoke, I fail to see why anyone would want to gather in a room to listen to people who can't sing and at a deafening volume. If you are educated you know the volume can cause permanent damage to the hearing apparatus.

A wise man once said:

If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart.

vietnamese people who understand this tend to listen intently and are more patient with foreigners.

Hi there,
I am facing the same situation with you as most of the local viets i meet everyday seemed to pretend they don't understand the vietnamese words coming out of my mouth. Either that or they would try to ask you again and yet again what you say, because their excuse is they can't hear you. This is the cause for the under-development in visualising modernisation and shaping of a cosmopolitan country, which many see as impossible due to the stubbornness in the mindset of some native viet people.
Many foreigners from different parts of the world have heard or seen this common scenarios and easily understand that such local viets insist foreigners speak viet language but refuse to accept foreigners and their viet language proficiency for the reason they are foreign race.
However they are few local viets i came across after restless inquiring around that are genuinely sharing and helpful, understand the viet language i speak without ANY difficulty. Normally these people i meet are natives who i enquired directions to places i had problem finding just to buy some electric appliance or something for my kid.
Just ignore and move on to the next as the mass native community here knows someone, some viet guy will talk and listen to you. Some people are plain selfish that's all. Some are racists and sick. Some of the few are truly good and can be trusted for certain issues. Which are the ones who can be treated as friends is in question mark... But i do beliv there are some

Hi dear friend,
Your statement is absolutely justified.
They are racists in even in the use of their own language

Hi dear friend,
Your statement is absolutely justified.
They are racists in even in the use of their own language

ThunderMan Even though your English is not too bad, I understand what you are trying to say. I spent several years in Saigon and many years in the country. Vietnamese people  are often very nice and welcoming but it is irritating that they think I was born yesterday.   My years in University and experience all over the world are beyond the comprehension of most. In the country many people appear uneducated and absolutely oblivious to the world in general. But I sometimes meet open minded intelligent people although not often. I forgive the Vietnamese ignorance because there are so many aholes in my native country with college degrees many of whom are dysfunctional politicians.

My 2 cents: yesterday a gloomy, tense looking woman asked me if I spoke Vietnamese. I said that I didn't. Her response was a broad smile of pure delight and relief.

Matt_2 wrote:

My 2 cents: yesterday a gloomy, tense looking woman asked me if I spoke Vietnamese. I said that I didn't. Her response was a broad smile of pure delight and relief.

But what language were each of you using?

I do believe wrote:

Matt_2 wrote:

My 2 cents: yesterday a gloomy, tense looking woman asked me if I spoke Vietnamese. I said that I didn't. Her response was a broad smile of pure delight and relief.

But what language were each of you using?

I had the same thought.

On the whole, the VN are not used to foreigners. They are a bit shocked when we speak to them (not in D1 perhaps).

In the UK, we are used to people murdering our language as we also murder theirs.

If a person walks into a shoe shop in London and speaks ANY language ... the seller will not understand them. Same as here.

BUT ... they will know that they work in a shoe store, the person is male or female ... that their feet look big, small, dainty ... etc.

They can point to shoes and ask? Yes / No or Thumb up, thumb down?

No shoes? OK, so maybe you want some laces? Leather cleaner?

That ability to think outside the box is acquired from being exposed to foreigners daily.

Now, I spoke a few words of Greek on my holidays a long time ago and no way can it have been clear, but the smile and encouragement helped me to learn some more. That is sorely missing here.