Why don't Vietnamese understand Vietnamese spoken by a foreigner?

missmae wrote:

Then your wife explained it totally wrong to you. Maybe she said its similar to "Come on" but honestly it's not. It is "Kam oen" (not the American A but the soft British a like in ANOTHER). And "On" is exactly as the "O" in other, very soft...

confusing i know but i would stop saying come on because its not correct

Confusing alright, she has lived in VN all her life, and is a highly regarded Deputy Principal, I would like to say 'Kam oen ', maybe that's just the way the pronounce it in Central VN???? I've heard other VN's here say  ' come on ", as well, some can even understand some of my Viet pronunciation, ( even though it sounds completely wrong to me ).

Maybe its just a South Vietnamese dialect but its def. not come on:)

missmae wrote:

Then your wife explained it totally wrong to you. Maybe she said its similar to "Come on" but honestly it's not. It is "Kam oen" (not the American A but the soft British a like in ANOTHER). And "On" is exactly as the "O" in other, very soft...

confusing i know but i would stop saying come on because its not correct

I was taught to say "Cam un" although now reading the above quote I think the "Kam oen" reference is as close as anyone can get to the correct pronunciation. On the other hand it is rare for someone not to undersang my Vietnamese thank you.

I do believe wrote:

missmae wrote:

Then your wife explained it totally wrong to you. Maybe she said its similar to "Come on" but honestly it's not. It is "Kam oen" (not the American A but the soft British a like in ANOTHER). And "On" is exactly as the "O" in other, very soft...

confusing i know but i would stop saying come on because its not correct

I was taught to say "Cam un" although now reading the above quote I think the "Kam oen" reference is as close as anyone can get to the correct pronunciation. On the other hand it is rare for someone not to undersang my Vietnamese thank you.

Oh god,
Should I make a youtube clip to show you guys how to speak Vietnamese correctly.
I have Slides for some basics words (pictures, how to speak).... If you guys want them, please send me your email address...

LaurelM wrote:

It's just simply because Saigon people speak Vietnamese with different accents. Depends on where they come from (North, South, or Central region). What you think 'perfect pronunciation' might sound ridiculous to southerners for example. A southerner might ask you 'khoe hong' instead of 'khoe khong' the 'k' sound is swallowed! Or you might notice that Saigon people add the 'g' sound to all syllables which end with 'n'. ect....
Cheers,

I also noticed that "g" sound but find it isn't universal with the words ending in "n". If you say the verb "sell" it is spelled, "bán" but pronounced, "bang" with a soft "g." But if you say the word, "friend" spelled "bạn" there is no "g" sound.

Speaking Vietnamese is like driving a motorbike here; there are no stop signs.

Saigon Visitor wrote:

I do believe wrote:

... I was born and raised English speaking in Canada on the US border near Buffalo ...

I went to University of Buffalo ... been to 'the nice side' of the falls many times

When I get to Vietnam in June, maybe we can meet up for coffee or a beer and chat sometime.

Thanks.

OK see you in June and we can talk about how the "Falls" have changed. It'll be nice to speak English to an American for a change.

hoangkim wrote:

I do believe wrote:

missmae wrote:

Then your wife explained it totally wrong to you. Maybe she said its similar to "Come on" but honestly it's not. It is "Kam oen" (not the American A but the soft British a like in ANOTHER). And "On" is exactly as the "O" in other, very soft...

confusing i know but i would stop saying come on because its not correct

I was taught to say "Cam un" although now reading the above quote I think the "Kam oen" reference is as close as anyone can get to the correct pronunciation. On the other hand it is rare for someone not to undersang my Vietnamese thank you.

Oh god,
Should I make a youtube clip to show you guys how to speak Vietnamese correctly.
I have Slides for some basics words (pictures, how to speak).... If you guys want them, please send me your email address...

Even if you send a video it's the practice that is necessary. Thumbs up for the foreigners who try their best to learn Vietnamese and admit it we Vietnamese know HOW HARD IT IS ... All my respect to those trying since I still have problems hitting the tones although I grew up with Vietnamese:)

*Sarcasm* Shall I make a video and send it to all Vietnamese who say they speak English but have a bad pronunciation? *Sarcasmoff* Seriously that doesnt help

missmae, you are quite right; practice makes perfect. I have watched dozens of videoes and they always help me but none can correct my pronunciation.

missmae wrote:

As a expat here in Vietnam I credit your tries but I would stick to the language I'm fluent. Maybe Vietnamese is not your language...

If one wants something in life, they should keep trying no matter what. Posts like this are why immigrants get stuck in a bubble, everywhere.

According to my scholarly pursuits --- OK, my meager classwork --- the first syllable can have either the dấu sắc or the dấu hỏi.

Cảm ơn

or

Cám ơn.

It doesn't sound like "come on."  The horned o does not sound like the reg'lar Englische short o.

NinaVamp wrote:

missmae wrote:

As a expat here in Vietnam I credit your tries but I would stick to the language I'm fluent. Maybe Vietnamese is not your language...

If one wants something in life, they should keep trying no matter what. Posts like this are why immigrants get stuck in a bubble, everywhere.

I'm not saying that immigrants shouldn't learn the language but I'm saying that it's hard to learn the language and obviously they get along without Vietnamese since Locals don't credit their efforts. If you try and try and nobody accept its (come on we know how Vietnamese are - no respect, no thank you and I ALWAYS come first). So why should they put all their time trying to speak Vietnamese when nobody but family acknowledge it?

In other countries Locals smile when you try to speak their native language (out of experience been to China, Spain and US). They said how amazing it is to hear a foreigner speaking Mandarin, Spanish and English. However when I got to Vietnam I notice that nobody cares about it. I'm lucky to speak Vietnamese but sometimes Locals don't understand me. They even don't care about what I'm trying to say. They turn around and ignore me. How would it feel for any expat here?

missmae wrote:

I'm lucky to speak Vietnamese but sometimes Locals don't understand me. They even don't care about what I'm trying to say. They turn around and ignore me. How would it feel for any expat here?

That's the experience that I was trying to communicate in one of my earlier posts as well. Unless there is some sort of connection (family, friends, acquaintances), most people won't bother trying to understand you. Unless they're trying to get something from you or sell you something, of course.

ssuprnova wrote:

missmae wrote:

I'm lucky to speak Vietnamese but sometimes Locals don't understand me. They even don't care about what I'm trying to say. They turn around and ignore me. How would it feel for any expat here?

That's the experience that I was trying to communicate in one of my earlier posts as well. Unless there is some sort of connection (family, friends, acquaintances), most people won't bother trying to understand you. Unless they're trying to get something from you or sell you something, of course.

Yes that's the Vietnamese mentality. It's a "I don't care about you unless you can offer me something I need". Of course there are nice & friendly people. Just yesterday I went to repair my scooter in Tan Dinh and another customer gave me his chair in the shadows. They talked to me, smiled and were interested where I'm from.

If there is interest Vietnamese can be friendly, kind and funny but life here is hard. It's a battle and they don't have time or effort to listen to a Viet Kieu/ Expats talking to them because obviously YOUR life is much better than their life.

missmae wrote:

Yes that's the Vietnamese mentality. It's a "I don't care about you unless you can offer me something I need". Of course there are nice & friendly people.

This one seems pretty clear to me.  The divisions here between the uneducated peasants and the educated (and affluent) Vietnamese are very stark, they are completely different people, but they are not segregated.  If you go some place like an expensive coffee shop that's out of reach of the former you'll find friendly and engaging people.  Most anywhere else you get a mixture consisting mostly of people who are only thinking of money and family.

I don't give them any credit for "it's a hard life," sorry, I've seen poor people in other countries who go out of their way to be nice.  A lot of people here are just pushy and rude.  Period.

I'm still learning the language.  But not to say or answer "have you eaten yet" or "strong healthy not?" all day long.

It gets pretty stupid sometimes.  You have a woman selling bánh mì.  She's been doing it for 30 years.  Everyone who stops at her kiosk is buying a sandwich.  But some westerner says it slightly wrong, maybe uses the neutral tone on one word, and she waggles her hand at him in fatuous incomprehension.  "ban mee.  What could he possibly be talking about?!?"

(this space reserved for some mealy-mouthed TWIT to insert a lecture about how we are guests in their country)

I call BS.  The problem here is not the tourist.

(this space reserved for some self-righteous VK to insert some variation of "if you don't like it then leave")

and the space reserved for generalizing idiots have already been taken i see.  look i understand some Viet quirks and characteristics can be annoying and downright frustrating but to generalize a whole group of people makes you well...

I do believe wrote:

missmae, you are quite right; practice makes perfect. I have watched dozens of videoes and they always help me but none can correct my pronunciation.

Problem is that fewer than 1% of the people who will tell you your pronunciation is wrong will tell you what's wrong or help you correct it.

There are distinguishing differences that we aren't attuned to and I'm not talking about tones.  I work on both northern and southern dialects and I've never been able to keep straight when -n comes out as -ng.  The big one though is that any word ending in -ng is pronounced with both -ng and -m at the same time, which is difficult, and if you can't do both you're better off saying -m, not -ng.  "Không" is likelier to be understood as "cowm" than as "cowng."

OBB wrote:

and the space reserved for generalizing idiots have already been taken i see.  look i understand some Viet quirks and characteristics can be annoying and downright frustrating but to generalize a whole group of people makes you well...

I don't see anything at all wrong with generalization since the world takes to generalizing so aptly.  Flying animals with feathers are almost always birds.  Generalization is a fundamental basis of reality. 

But where did I generalize?  Did I say all Vietnamese are as deliberately clueless as that?  Why, no, I didn't.  But I'm sick and tired of smarmy, smart-alecky responses like the two I pre-empted.  I see that crap all the time. 

I've had people go out of their way to help me with your language.  I've also had some people who were completely hopeless jerks.  Yeah maybe the poor bastard sounded wrong but at least he was trying.

Yes! Totally agree with you!

I've to make a call to supplier to ask for the information sometime. They just hang up the call when they can't understand your Vietnamese!

August Choong wrote:

Yes! Totally agree with you!

I've to make a call to supplier to ask for the information sometime. They just hang up the call when they can't understand your Vietnamese!

Ah that's rude~.~

I work all day on the phone and sometimes I have to spell names (Clients) and geez it drives me crazy that the majority doesn't understand my British Spelling.
When I do it in Vietnamese they don't get me either ...

Crazy Country but still love it

Don't forget, you have to pay for education in Vietnam which relegates too many to little or no schooling; I do notice an intellectual vacuum running through the populace but I forgive it looking at the history of the country as well as current social shortcomings. Vietnam is a developing country and cannot catch up to the Western world overnight. Yes, it is easy to generalize negatively but on the whole I find the Vietnamese people very engaging and even when they don't understand my absolutely perfect Vietnamese are usually patient with me. The young of this country are going to make Vietnam mainstream in the next ten years. Hopefully they will be able to overcome the cancer invasion of America's fast food joints.

I do believe wrote:

Hopefully they will be able to overcome the cancer invasion of America's fast food joints.

I saw that discussion and I almost got the spins wondering how people could be so lacking in perspective.

When I first came here in 1998 the opera house in Saigon was packed.  Now the Vietnamese traditional music is barely surviving because everyone is listening to American-influenced vietpop, the absolutely stupidest music the world has ever produced.  Vietnamese traditional music is unique in its many modalities and the pop music supplanting it is enough to make anyone with a musical ear bring up his lunch. 

Two or three Burger Kings in the nation's two largest cities is worse than that?  Give me a break.

Anyway there are two strata in society here, the educated and the uneducated.  Our workman can fix anything that ever worked but he can't read his own language.  The ones who waggle the hand at you because you didn't do some sound exactly right are not the same as the ones who take the time to figure out what you mean.

So do i~ Sometime I really have a doubt about my English proficiency when I speak with Vietnamese ...

Note the enduring power of this topic.  Clearly it hits a nerve.

iOS Freelancer has a point; the enormous frustration for those of us who have spent years and countless hours studying the language is indicative of something but I don't know what. I do know, as I expressed earlier, that it was a relief to find out I wasn't the only one experiencing this oddity. Some posters have expressed the opinion that we must speak perfectly which I think is a load of HS. I will never speak perfectly and in fact millions of Vietnamese don't speak perfectly. There are some real reasons for the dichotomy, some of them discovered in this discussion but it will always perplex me when you can speak to two Vietnamese and one will understand you perfectly and one will not.

I only moved here in December and I live on Nguyen Dinh Chieu street... simple name right? My Vietnamese friends told me how I should pronounce this (similar to Win Den Chew) but it doesn't matter how I try to say this, sometimes over and over again ... most Taxi or Xe Om Drivers never seem to understand me! Its so annoying...

Yeah, speak perfectly, as if there's some standard.  Saigon is more homogenous but around here two people sound as different as Cambodian and French.  Yet they understand each other.

There is a weird pervasive laziness here.  I see it everywhere.  From not looking in rear view mirrors to throwing trash on the ground with a basket literally in arm's reach.  I think the guy who said "no money in it for me" nailed it.

lol the rest of the world wonder why Vietnamese can't understand their own language... that will be an unsolved mystery...

By the way, I have a cat at home and I really feel more comfortable talking with her. When I say "meowwww meowww meoowwwwww" to my cat, she looks at me and immediately replies "meowwww". Seems we speak the same language, no misunderstandings.
But with a Vietnamese, even a simple "Xin chao" and they stare at me wondering what I mean...

But yeah, no offense to the Vietnamese. It's just funny. I simply chose to give up with this language and only stay with people who can speak English. We can easily live in this country if we don't speak the local language. Actually better no to try learning it... you'll avoid big headache and misunderstandings 

http://sohoa.vnexpress.net/tin-tuc/doi- … 17-p2.html
This guy is so cute!!!
I don't like tones...The name of the song

Xaviar84 wrote:

I only moved here in December and I live on Nguyen Dinh Chieu street... simple name right? My Vietnamese friends told me how I should pronounce this (similar to Win Den Chew) but it doesn't matter how I try to say this, sometimes over and over again ... most Taxi or Xe Om Drivers never seem to understand me! Its so annoying...

Maybe its because its not WIN DEN CHEW. The Vietnamese NG is really hard to pronounce. Try to stick to the NG from SONG and say Nwen Denhhh (keep its a long one) Cheuw (accent on the e). Nwen Denh Cheuw. Might help you.

I would advise to have pen & paper with ur address so they know where to go.

Even I have to tell the taxi driver again and again where to go since I don't know the proper pronounciation of the Street Names. Luckily I rarely take a cab since I'm driving a scooter

I,m chinese,  local think i, vietnames, i also learned vietnames in that university, when i speak  easy vietnames they all understand, but when i speak english, they all find funny, i think local expect i speak  vietnames

tranus wrote:

lol the rest of the world wonder why Vietnamese can't understand their own language... that will be an unsolved mystery...

This might help explain part of it.
It is part of the Austroasiatic language family of which it has, by far, the most speakers (several times that of the other Austroasiatic languages combined).[citation needed] Vietnamese vocabulary has borrowings from Chinese, and it formerly used a modified set of Chinese characters called chữ nôm given vernacular pronunciation. As a by product of French colonial rule, Vietnamese was influenced by French; the Vietnamese alphabet (quốc ngữ) in use today is a Latin alphabet with additional diacritics for tones, and certain letters.
  It annoys me when I'm asked, why can't I speak good Viet like my French friend?, ( it might have something to do with him having lived here for 12 yrs as well though??? ).

qian wrote:

I,m chinese,  local think i, vietnames, i also learned vietnames in that university, when i speak  easy vietnames they all understand, but when i speak english, they all find funny, i think local expect i speak  vietnames

你好， 哦 在学中语
w哦门可能朋有 吗
你办哦 中语
哦办你越南语 好不好？

hoangkim wrote:

qian wrote:

I,m chinese,  local think i, vietnames, i also learned vietnames in that university, when i speak  easy vietnames they all understand, but when i speak english, they all find funny, i think local expect i speak  vietnames

你好， 哦 在学中语
w哦门可能朋有 吗
你办哦 中语
哦办你越南语 好不好？

Bloody chickens are out again!!!!

hELLnoi wrote:

In the USA, the "English" were mainly taught by the Irish who came on the Mayflower!

The passengers of the Mayflower were English, not Irish.   

New Data.

Friend of mine doesn't look very Vietnamese.  I don't know if she's been plastic'd but she is a native speaker from somewhere in the north, and she can turn on the southern pronunciation. 

Today she had to repeat her dirt-simple coffee order twice. 

This is a useful datum.  Her pronunciation is perfect.  But she looks foreign.  She got The Helpless Stare.

It's flawed data.  You were with her.

Teacher Mark wrote:

It's flawed data.  You were with her.

You're wrong.  I wasn't there.  Everyone who was there was Vietnamese.

Next time make it a question.

Besides, so what if I had been there?  The point is that a người phục vụ in a fancy place didn't recognize her own language perfectly pronounced.  I don't care if my friend was treading water in a sea of westerners.