Why don't Vietnamese understand Vietnamese spoken by a foreigner?

You, me, or any westerner was my point.  Just being there can shake some, and up comes the wall; they shut down.

Here's the State Department's Vietnamese familiarization  course.  It was produced in the southern dialect, I think.  Drill your pronunciation.

http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content … Vietnamese

Teacher Mark wrote:

You, me, or any westerner was my point.  Just being there can shake some, and up comes the wall; they shut down.

Or, for short, it's their problem.

And, no, I'm not studying southern pronunciation, not when northern is the national standard and compared to down here it's like Harvard vs. Baton Rouge.

Stop slagging Vietnam then.  You're bashing Vietnam, it's citizens and it's culture on a constant basis.  Don't like it here?    Go home!

*FINGER WAG*

Teacher Mark wrote:

Stop slagging Vietnam then.  You're bashing Vietnam, it's citizens and it's culture on a constant basis.  Don't like it here?    Go home!

Now there's an original suggestion.  You should patent that.

There are things I like, and things I don't.  This thread us about a thing a lot of us don't like.  Want to read only Sunshine blasts?  Start another thread.  Otherwise, stick a cork in it because I really don't care.

iOS Freelancer wrote:

Teacher Mark wrote:

Stop slagging Vietnam then.  You're bashing Vietnam, it's citizens and it's culture on a constant basis.  Don't like it here?    Go home!

Now there's an original suggestion.  You should patent that.

There are things I like, and things I don't.  This thread us about a thing a lot of us don't like.  Want to read only Sunshine blasts?  Start another thread.  Otherwise, stick a cork in it because I really don't care.

Haven't you already been banned Fox?

167 posts in this thread.  Get back to me when you excoriate everyone else who isn't throwing daffodils.  Otherwise, your mealy mouthed outrage makes no impression.

Two people posting from the same coffee shop wifi get banned here.  It doesn't mean sheet

Ad hominem means attacking the speaker rather than the opinion expressed. Telling someone to go home just because they are complaining about something is a non-sequitur as well as an obvious symptom of an intellectual vacuum.

To be clear -An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument

Non sequitur /nɒnˈsɛkwɪtər/ is Latin for "it does not follow." It is most often used as a noun to describe illogical statements.

Especially outside HCMC and Hanoi the locals do not listen at all 

Nice to see one (1) other person who knows what argumentum ad hominem actually means.  Hat tip.  Most keyboard kommandos think it means insult.

Or "disagreement."

Yeah, if there's one thing you don't like about a country where dogs get stolen and everyone smokes and there's litter everywhere, go back to the USA and pay taxes to support stinking rich financiers and the Israeli Lebensraum movement.  You have to love everything here to the point of incontinence.

Scholar alert.

I wonder which troll Mark was before?  Sir Fullofhimself?

Hi everybody,

Do note that the main title of this topic is Why don't Vietnamese understand Vietnamese spoken by a foreigner?, so can we please go back to the initial subject of this topic?

Thank you 

Priscilla
Expat.com team

I've been on making lists, message boards, and now blogs since the mid90s and this is the only one where moderators play topic cop, much less delete posts.  What we have above is a three-post diversion triggered by one guy who couldn't handle losing an argument.  Relax, K?  These little scolds don't make for good discussion and deleting posts makes people leave.  Topic drift is normal, and after 160+ on-topic posts I'd say it's a safe bet this thread will get back on track all on its own.

Starting here.  As I noted above, it's not only foreigners who don't get understood.  There are significant variations in pronunciation over a few dozen kilometers and I've seen native speakers misunderstood, as I noted above, and I've seen native speakers who could barely understand villagers 20 minutes outside town.  I'm told nobody can understand the Huế accent.

hi.
I am Vietnamese.
I think Vietnamese often don't understand your Vietnamese because of your Pronunciation.
Vietnamese is different from English or other language, because, It has accented. And when you speak, you must follow that sound corectly. This make some difficult to studying.
If you really want to improve your Pronunciation, please contact me. I can help you.
please contact my facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cam.dola.
Thanks. Have a good day.

Cam Do La wrote:

hi.
I am Vietnamese.
I think Vietnamese often don't understand your Vietnamese because of your Pronunciation.
Vietnamese is different from English or other language, because, It has accented. And when you speak, you must follow that sound corectly. This make some difficult to studying.
If you really want to improve your Pronunciation, please contact me. I can help you.
please contact my facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cam.dola.
Thanks. Have a good day.

I do appreciate that but as this thread points out in several places, this has little or nothing to do with accuracy of pronunciation.  Native Vietnamese who don't have a lot of Chinese blood and look foreign get the same wide-eyed stare.

Some westerners don't understand how important the tones are, consider them optional.  I know they aren't.  I've been told dozens of times that my (Bắc) tones are perfect.  And the fact is that people wh know I speak some Vietnamese always understand me.  ALWAYS. 
It's the ones who don't know me who give me the Stare.

That's really what this whole thread has been about.  Somehow when Vietnamese meet someone they don't expect to speak their language, they don't recognize it.  Even if the speaker is Vietnamese and perfectly, naturally fluent.

A lot of us really work at this, we watch Annie videos, we take classes, we học tập chuyên cần. And we are frustrated.

Cam Do La wrote:

hi.
I am Vietnamese.
I think Vietnamese often don't understand your Vietnamese because of your Pronunciation.
Vietnamese is different from English or other language, because, It has accented. And when you speak, you must follow that sound corectly. This make some difficult to studying.
If you really want to improve your Pronunciation, please contact me. I can help you.
please contact my facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cam.dola.
Thanks. Have a good day.

I refuse to join facebook. I don't want people to know where I am.

I do believe wrote:

Cam Do La wrote:

hi.
I am Vietnamese.
I think Vietnamese often don't understand your Vietnamese because of your Pronunciation.
Vietnamese is different from English or other language, because, It has accented. And when you speak, you must follow that sound corectly. This make some difficult to studying.
If you really want to improve your Pronunciation, please contact me. I can help you.
please contact my facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cam.dola.
Thanks. Have a good day.

I refuse to join facebook. I don't want people to know where I am.

Dude, that ship has sailed.  You don't need to register with FB to be tracked.  There are satellites that can read the expiration date on your pill bottles. 

But if you do sign up you can do nothing further .., no gender, age, location, name, nothing.  And then when you sign up for some web site you don't have to tell them you mother's maiden name, the name of your first pet, or any of that. 

I spend about ten minutes a day on there, mostly reading change logs for the API.

OK, back to The Stare.

I always try to give the Vietnamese listener some context and some times it helps; if I say I was in My Tho, they usually don't  understand me but if i say I was in the City of My Tho, they understand. I don't use the tones well because I often don't know or remember the tone of the word I am speaking, such as "cuoi." If I say to a girl; "You have a nice smile." she almost always understands me even though I'm pronouncing smile like the word "marry". For any real conversation the tones are mandatory but for short common phrases, one can get away with poor pronunciation. It still is a mystery how simple words well spoken are misunderstood. So Cam Do La - forget about your "Duh" remark about pronunciation, why don't many Vietnamese understand Vietnamese spoken perfectly by a foreigner?????????

That's a good point about being a trifle more verbiagous to give some context.  I'm especially careful with TPHCM because I want to leave no room for misunderstanding and the possibility it might be  making fun of Bác Hồ. 

But .. The tones!  I've been living on Vietnamese cuisine since 1995 and I didn't move here until 2010.  By 1997 I could read a Vietnamese menu as well as a native speaker, everything ... but my pronunciation was wrong (they tested me.  Canh chua cá with fish head.  I showed them.  I ate it).

Now, five years of study, I still say a lot if the food words wrong.

When you learn a new word, learn the tone first.  You don't want to find yourself at the altar.

"Dude, that ship has sailed.  You don't need to register with FB to be tracked.  There are satellites that can read the expiration date on your pill bottles. 

But if you do sign up you can do nothing further .., no gender, age, location, name, nothing.  And then when you sign up for some web site you don't have to tell them you mother's maiden name, the name of your first pet, or any of that."

Thanks iOS for the heads up on the 2nd paragraph above. I knew the first one long ago; ever since 9/11 they have been tracking all of us and I'm sure a drone is coming your way soon; me they don't care because they know I'm old and will die soon enough.

Though I agree with the verdict of lazy listening from Viets, I never use tones for taxi drivers and am understood fine, unlike PPs.

Dean Parker
Director of International Marketing
Crea TV.

The are not expecting a foreigner, to speak Vietnamese, so their brain isn't ready!  Repeat your phrase many times, chug a Sting, crush a bag of potato chips and walk away.   Maybe the next guy will be luckier than you!

Cam Do La wrote:

hi.
I am Vietnamese.
I think Vietnamese often don't understand your Vietnamese because of your Pronunciation.
Vietnamese is different from English or other language, because, It has accented. And when you speak, you must follow that sound corectly. This make some difficult to studying.
If you really want to improve your Pronunciation, please contact me. I can help you.
please contact my facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cam.dola.
Thanks. Have a good day.

Any other language, except French, I'm sure I mentioned that in an earlier post on this thread, ( you must have missed that post ?? ), also something about Chinese?????

konacoast wrote:

Dean Parker
Director of International Marketing
Crea TV.

The are not expecting a foreigner, to speak Vietnamese, so their brain isn't ready!  Repeat your phrase many times, chug a Sting, crush a bag of potato chips and walk away.   Maybe the next guy will be luckier than you!

Why should that be a problem here and nowhere else?  Sorry, but we are going in circles here.  There *is* a problem.

I spoke Cantonese in Malaysia and got no helpless stares.

hoangkim wrote:

qian wrote:

I,m chinese,  local think i, vietnames, i also learned vietnames in that university, when i speak  easy vietnames they all understand, but when i speak english, they all find funny, i think local expect i speak  vietnames

你好， 哦 在学中语
w哦门可能朋有 吗
你办哦 中语
哦办你越南语 好不好？

The correct spelling looks like below.
你好，我在学中文，我们能做朋友吗？你帮我学中文，我帮你学越南语，好不好？

Say good-bye (again) Fox.   

missmae wrote:

Xaviar84 wrote:

I only moved here in December and I live on Nguyen Dinh Chieu street... simple name right? My Vietnamese friends told me how I should pronounce this (similar to Win Den Chew) but it doesn't matter how I try to say this, sometimes over and over again ... most Taxi or Xe Om Drivers never seem to understand me! Its so annoying...

Maybe its because its not WIN DEN CHEW. The Vietnamese NG is really hard to pronounce. Try to stick to the NG from SONG and say Nwen Denhhh (keep its a long one) Cheuw (accent on the e). Nwen Denh Cheuw. Might help you.

I would advise to have pen & paper with ur address so they know where to go.

Even I have to tell the taxi driver again and again where to go since I don't know the proper pronounciation of the Street Names. Luckily I rarely take a cab since I'm driving a scooter

Thanks for help Missmae.. I typed similar to Win Denh Chieu   

I've heard some people pronounce Nguyen like Nwin and some like Nwen (maybe its just my hearing!?)... But my friends have told me how it should be said but I still struggle to get people to understand me even if I say it over and over again and pronounce it slightly different each time!

So now I've just wrote it down on a business card and put it in my wallet ha ha

Xaviar84 wrote:

missmae wrote:

Xaviar84 wrote:

I only moved here in December and I live on Nguyen Dinh Chieu street... simple name right? My Vietnamese friends told me how I should pronounce this (similar to Win Den Chew) but it doesn't matter how I try to say this, sometimes over and over again ... most Taxi or Xe Om Drivers never seem to understand me! Its so annoying...

Maybe its because its not WIN DEN CHEW. The Vietnamese NG is really hard to pronounce. Try to stick to the NG from SONG and say Nwen Denhhh (keep its a long one) Cheuw (accent on the e). Nwen Denh Cheuw. Might help you.

I would advise to have pen & paper with ur address so they know where to go.

Even I have to tell the taxi driver again and again where to go since I don't know the proper pronounciation of the Street Names. Luckily I rarely take a cab since I'm driving a scooter

Thanks for help Missmae.. I typed similar to Win Denh Chieu   

I've heard some people pronounce Nguyen like Nwin and some like Nwen (maybe its just my hearing!?)... But my friends have told me how it should be said but I still struggle to get people to understand me even if I say it over and over again and pronounce it slightly different each time!

So now I've just wrote it down on a business card and put it in my wallet ha ha

yep Vietnamese sometimes aren't willing to listen to foreigners or anybody who don't speak Vietnamese fluently. Happened to me lots of times. I'm persistent and repeat what I say until he gets me. Funnily everybody understands me besides people on the street. Might be because they're not use to my German South Vietnamese mixed dialect:)

missmae wrote:

yep Vietnamese sometimes aren't willing to listen to foreigners or anybody who don't speak Vietnamese fluently. Happened to me lots of times. I'm persistent and repeat what I say until he gets me. Funnily everybody understands me besides people on the street. Might be because they're not use to my German South Vietnamese mixed dialect:)

As mentioned above, they feign to not understand fluent Vietnamese who don't look "typical."

I speak several languages and have forgotten several others.  I have never encountered this anywhere else.  Under any circumstances.  I've spoken rudimentary Chinese in countries where it was a secondary language.  No frightened stare.

That didnt take long 

OBB wrote:

That didnt take long

Won't take long next time either.  They have some admin who is a complete moron abou IP addresses. I'm not gonna take that. 

Two people post here from the same coffee shop days apart, both get banned.  "Must be one person with two accounts."  How dumb is that? 

And BTW I have emoticons blocked.  All I see is placeholders.  I don't think anyone over 14 should use them.

Teacher Mark wrote:

Say good-bye (again) Fox.   

He's back

Look, I get why you banned him. Although I don´t really agree with the banning. I don´t want to admit it, but reading his posts had a very chathartic effect on me.My experience hasn´t been quite that bad; the worst I had was when  my "best" friend told me jocularly to "stop raping his language". I didn´t take kindly to it, and lashed out that I´m not being a d*ck about his admittedly excellent English and his atrocious German, and he should live in a foreign country for a while to see how it is. And he will be coming to Germany soon I hope, If everything works out with the papers. I realized I was being petty and that our commonplace teasing was just being extended to my lack of language ability, a fair target. I would say I´ve had a middle ground experience; sometimes I get understood, sometimes I don´t.

Reminds me of an annoying weed. 

Clock DVA wrote:

OBB wrote:

That didnt take long

Won't take long next time either.  They have some admin who is a complete moron abou IP addresses. I'm not gonna take that. 

Two people post here from the same coffee shop days apart, both get banned.  "Must be one person with two accounts."  How dumb is that? 

And BTW I have emoticons blocked.  All I see is placeholders. I don't think anyone over 14 should use them.

considering your immature rants its quite appropriate.   oops i see that hes banned yet again.   maybe its a positive thing for you that the locals dont understand you or youll be banned from the country hjhj.

OBB wrote:

Clock DVA wrote:

OBB wrote:

That didnt take long

Won't take long next time either.  They have some admin who is a complete moron abou IP addresses. I'm not gonna take that. 

Two people post here from the same coffee shop days apart, both get banned.  "Must be one person with two accounts."  How dumb is that? 

And BTW I have emoticons blocked.  All I see is placeholders. I don't think anyone over 14 should use them.

considering your immature rants its quite appropriate.   oops i see that hes banned yet again.   maybe its a positive thing for you that the locals dont understand you or youll be banned from the country hjhj.

Think your safe now his last Avatar is banned?, think again, HE WILL BE BACK!!!!  ( if not already ).

bluenz wrote:

OBB wrote:

Clock DVA wrote:

Won't take long next time either.  They have some admin who is a complete moron abou IP addresses. I'm not gonna take that. 

Two people post here from the same coffee shop days apart, both get banned.  "Must be one person with two accounts."  How dumb is that? 

And BTW I have emoticons blocked.  All I see is placeholders. I don't think anyone over 14 should use them.

considering your immature rants its quite appropriate.   oops i see that hes banned yet again.   maybe its a positive thing for you that the locals dont understand you or youll be banned from the country hjhj.

Think your safe now his last Avatar is banned?, think again, HE WILL BE BACK!!!!  ( if not already ).

Batman has The Joker.
Spiderman has the Hobgoblin.
EB has the Fairy Godmother.
Forums need people like this.
They're a constant source of disdain and even entertainment.
Without them,forums become a clean,polite organized politically correct sleep zone.

safe from what?  his idiotic diatribes?  lol

Ever heard about frogs?  A frog will starve to death surrounded by perfectly nutritious insect paté,  Because unless he sees it in flight and looking like a bug, the information never reaches his brain.

Clearly Vietnamese need to throw some mental switch before taking the trouble to process speech and if the speaker doesn't fit a very narrow range of bug-flight templates, they don't throw it.

You speak.  You speak perfectly.  They don't hear.  You've seen it, you know it.

Socialist Extrovert wrote:

Ever heard about frogs?  A frog will starve to death surrounded by perfectly nutritious insect paté,  Because unless he sees it in flight and looking like a bug, the information never reaches his brain.

Clearly Vietnamese need to throw some mental switch before taking the trouble to process speech and if the speaker doesn't fit a very narrow range of bug-flight templates, they don't throw it.

You speak.  You speak perfectly.  They don't hear.  You've seen it, you know it.

I've decided there is a possible positive to some Vietnamese not understanding their own language; perhaps those that don't understand Foreigner Vietnamese have an intellectual weakness not normally detected in our sometimes limited interaction. Just a thought; if they don't "throw the switch" what does that tell us about the person? Anybody care to hypothesize?

Yesterday I went into a small shop selling cases of pop and beer; the woman waiting on me would be late forties early fifties. I asked for a small case of bottled Coca Cola and she then pulled a case out that had two bottles already removed, She said she would get two more to fill the case, I said don't bother that is fine the way it is. In the conversation (in Vietnamese) there was not one repetition, not one misunderstanding. I looked into the women's eyes and saw intelligence and awareness. The woman was poor and not well educated and spoke no English. I left the shop with two Cokes short of a full load. Viet Kieu won't understand the abuse of the idiom, but anyway I felt more confident with my Vietnamese and am happy I found somebody who could "throw the switch" effortlessly.