The sad sorry question of racism

Hello and welcome to this forum, Gessabean!
Success in your new adventure

I've heard that it *was* bad (10 years ago) but that it is getting much better. I had the same impression you did before coming here (particularly from reading the comments on the newspaper stories!) On the bright side I was happy to see a middle-aged maltese man happily give up his bus seat to a black family with a toddler :-), and I haven't witnessed any name calling/bad service in day to day life.

On the other hand, my colleague in HR has reported some very racist comments from government employees in the work permit office and the residency office. It is your employer who applies for work permits, so you wouldn't have to deal with it directly, and I heard similar comments from work permit employees when I was moving to Norway.

When are you planning to come check out the island? There is a very active group of expats from a wide background who would be able to give you a lot of good information I suspect. We get together quite frequently, so hopefully you'll have a chance while you are visiting to quiz us in person ;-)

Hi FeeAcer, Sarafima - thanks for your responses.

I'm not really what you would call a shrinking violet and the odd look or name really wouldn't throw me that much.

Thanks Sarafima for the heads up - I would defo be up for meeting up with the expats (as long as there's a drink involved!)

You will be safer here than I would be as a white person in every City in the western world especially those in Black ruled South Africa.Racism cuts both ways and if you keep up with world news you will find that white people are the victims most, if not all of the time,

Brigantes wrote:

Racism cuts both ways and if you keep up with world news you will find that white people are the victims most, if not all of the time,

The OP wants to know how they will be treated in Malta. The first thing is to make sure they don't live next to, or are the boss of people with a mentality like you. Excusing racism on the basis it happens to someone else who is a different colour is, frankly, obnoxious.

The truth obviously hurts George.This is probably why you live on the remote island of Gozo.
Bytheway,my neighbours in Malta,of several different nationalities, never hear a peep from me.

Are any of your neighbours black ?

As you are a BNP supporter, does that mean you support the repatriation of non-white people from Malta as well as the UK ?

georgeingozo wrote:

Are any of your neighbours black ?

Answer:Yes

As you are a BNP supporter, does that mean you support the repatriation of non-white people from Malta as well as the UK ?

Answer:No

What it does mean is I am anti racist and recognise the fact that most of the victims (e.g. 3,000 South African Farmers)are white.

Playing the race card is a popular weapon of the mentally defuct left wing liberal types.This is obviously lost on you.

Don't you see that you are playing the race card by saying more whites than non-whites are prejudiced against in the world. Who cares ? Only those who care about what someones skin colour is. I don't care what skin colour someone has.

Whether its white SA farmers, or black people moving to Malta, racism is wrong. The colour of the person being prejudiced against is irrelevant.

georgeingozo wrote:

Don't you see that you are playing the race card by saying more whites than non-whites are prejudiced against in the world. Who cares ? Only those who care about what someones skin colour is. I don't care what skin colour someone has.

Whether its white SA farmers, or black people moving to Malta, racism is wrong. The colour of the person being prejudiced against is irrelevant.

Hypocrite or what?

Wow - so it looks like I will have to be careful of some of the expats too!

And, there is just me, a single professional female trying to make her way in life, only to be assigned the cause of the 1,000 year old problem of South Africa.

On the topic of South Africa, my white English mother used to say that it was actually the British that created the term concentration camp" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment
- where the white British used to lock up the White Boers.

Racism in all it't true multi jurisdictional colours!

Aren't we the human race a very funny and sad lot.

Could anyone else give me a heads up on being black in Malta?

P.S thanks georgeingozo!

White mother?

So you are not black as you first stated.

I know all about the history of concentration camps in S.A.,the one they call Gaza too in Palestine.

I stand by my first point.I have more to fear from racism than you.Facts from around the world back me up entirely.

What do you meaan by not "not black as I first stated"?

My father is from the Caribbean - I am the future.  Anyway, I very much doubt I could join the kkk.

Do you have anything to say regarding the topic of this thread?

By the sounds of it, you have a very large chip on your shoulder.

Gessabean wrote:

What do you meaan by not "not black as I first stated"?

My father is from the Caribbean - I am the future.  Anyway, I very much doubt I could join the kkk.

Do you have anything to say regarding the topic of this thread?

By the sounds of it, you have a very large chip on your shoulder.

You,like most none whites are the one with a very large chip on your shoulder.It was YOU who arrived here minus the salt 'n vinegar.Endless bleating about racism as though only white Europeans can be racist is getting rather tiresome especially when all evidence points to the opposite.Why not try Jamaica?......................yes,I wonder why.

Why Jamaica?  I have no connection with that island.

'Salt n vinegar'? - this thread is becoming way too bizarre for me.

Please if you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't say anything at all. Thank you.

Could we now return to the topic of this thread

Gessabean wrote:

Could we now return to the topic of this thread

yes please, or we'll have to moderate this discussion. Thanks

Hi Gassabean,

One of our best friends and member of the Expat group here is from Libya and dark skinned.She lives and works in Malta and we do a lot of things together.I've never seen or heard of her having a problem in Malta.

There are irregular immigrants on the island.These do have problems now and again but mostly because they are not used to the European way of life.These are mostly young men who do not even respect their own women.They will push their way onto buses at HalFar leaving dark skinned mothers with young babies standing on the pavement.I have seen that myself - luckily the bus driver stepped in and put some order in the chaos.

But Malta is very international and tolerant.There are residents and tourists from just any country you can imagine and all are accepted the way they are.That's what makes Malta so lovable and the perfect and safe place to live.

Look forward to seeing you here in Malta.

Regards

Ricky

Thanks Ricky for responding to my original Q.

xx

Hi Gessabean,
Well, what a hot topic this became earlier on. I'll stick to a few simple points regarding your original Q.  I have always juggled the question of Malta being 'open to outsiders' from its historical perspective, and its sometimes narrow view of the world and world cultures.  It can be  closed, bounded, island society when it wants to be. The language Q about using English or Maltese (officially I should receive govt' comms in both but usually it's just Maltese!) is a case in point.  There is an underbelly to Malta and its racist question but generally it is a tolerant place.  My son's best friend at school (he's 7yrs) is a black girl whose black British mother has been here 20 years.   The father is Maltese.  I've never heard of or seen racist remarks thrown her way or that of her mother, but as in every society there will be the odd person, from time to time, who will be racist. I, as a white Brit who's been here 16 years, got a comment from a rabid driver the other day who yelled 'go back to your own country' when we had a contretemps re a parking space!  So, what can I say - racism exists here as everywhere, but it's less a societal wide thing, and more related to ignorant individuals.
I wrote on this issue in part, as well as some other myths and realities about Malta (tourist vs. insider perspectives) here:
http://www.maltainsideout.com/4786/5-ma … s-reality/

Hi there,

we are an Italian family living in Malta since Sept. 2008. Not too long but not short time to have an idea. I do agree with lizayling in many ways. During this time we have experienced a wide range of attitudes: from extremely welcoming and friendly to being (litterally) harassed and insulted on the beach (too long a story to be told here). We are not black, mind you. The issue I believe is how the person in front of you relates to foreigners in general. Not more.

Maltese society is mostly based on tourism and therefore it has a love/hate relation with the people who comes from abroad. Here the intelligence and cultural background of the person in front of you has everything to do.

One thing I feel is that Malta is changing (or at least trying to open up) very quickly. Already compared to two years ago, you see many more black people around than before. Mixed couples are slowly showing up in the streets. Society is changing and this can only be positive.

One thing for certain: since you are a foreigner, you have to count on the fact that in most cases you will find yourself paying more than a native Maltese. This even happens at times to our Maltese/Canadian friend. Being raised in Toronto, her English does not have a Maltese accent and her Maltese is not as fluent as a native. At times SHE finds herself being treated as "one of those foreigners"! :-)

In any case, in most cases you don't have to worry. Just one advice: find a place in the more "european" areas, at least in the beginning, until you have got your feet wet. Sliema and St. Julians are nice areas you should consider.

well these were my 5 cents about it. I just hope nobody got offended from what I said! ;-)

cheers,

Massimo

Yeah - we've been thinking about having some t-shirts made up saying "I'm not a Tourist, I live here" or somethine along those lines, probabaly in Malti ("Jien ma Turistiku, noqgħod hawn." according to google translate). Anyone interested?

Tim

now, THAT's funny! love it!  :-)

The short answer to your question is yes, there is discrimination but probably not only against race or in the form you imagine.

If you are going to experience anything its probably petty things like being overcharged, people rushing you on in a queue, shouting while driving etc, but not down to you being black, but a foreigner.

The only real racism I experienced was actually from someone who was Irish and drunk.

The Maltese are easygoing and very friendly, so you may at times get some sloppy service or a laid back attitude with regards to getting something done, but thats down to the service levels that some folks choose to engage at. If you make a big enough fuss generally it gets improved. Sometimes though you might want to grab an extra coffee/beer and wait.

Having said that I have experienced some of the best service from a variety of local companies,restaurants and all out helpfulness, which I wouldnt have gotten elsewhere.

The forums on the local news sites are horrendous, and I think those are reflection of the internet in general. Even mono celled creatures are encouraged to comment and vent, and you will find very strong and colorful language for and against a whole range of topics from race, immigration to bird hunting and abortion.

Your best bet is visit for 3 months or longer if you can, try off peak, as it is easier to get a feel then with not so many tourists around and nobody stressed out too much. I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck

Hi Eagle,

Well said ! I agree totally.

When will you be back for a coffee or beer ?

I wish you luck with the World Cup !

Ricky

t-shirt with ''proud black'' - just the t-shirt with something on it...

t-shirt with ''proud white'' = racism

why?

wisnicz wrote:

t-shirt with ''proud black'' - just the t-shirt with something on it...
t-shirt with ''proud white'' = racism

why?

Good questions. I think it has something to do with sensitivity. Each continent has experienced some form of colonial racism, or else related to war , or persecutions of ethnics etc.

I am by no means an expert on history , however think about the issues in south america, australia, africa, india and even europe last century. Theres been widespread persecution of people on the basis of religion, race, and even culture, some spanning a few hundred years and some as recent as the last century. Africa and Asia still have some going on today where its black on black ethnic cleansing.

Without even going that far, full desegration only occurred in the US after the 1960's not that long
ago in the history of things.

A culture or society wanting to dominate over another has happened countless times throughout history. Take the example of Poland which has been occupied by both the russians and germans. Speaking to many Polish they still regard the Russians and Germans with some distrust, the memories are still there.

For some folks this takes a long time to fade, especially if some people identify with it and make it part of there image. It almost becomes a badge some people like to wear, however it could also develop into a chip on the shoulder. Racism is not necessarily only black vs white, but could be seen in a much broader context of nationalism, colonialism, generally anything where people try to exert one culture over another.

Promoting inter cultural acceptance is positive, however promoting one at the expense of others is dangerous.

So sometimes people could be sensitive to things which to others seem insignificant, probably because those scars have not healed, or the memories have not been fully integrated. Some issues go deeper and are even generational.

So no easy answers , sometimes its a T-Shirt to provoke a response like a piece of controversial art
and sometimes a T-Shirt is just a T-Shirt who knows.

You have a very clouded or bias view of Colonialism.
Blacks prospered in many areas under European Colonialism,that is one reason they leave their homeland today and risk all to come to Europe.Do you really believe if Colonialism was so bad they would flock to the land of the Colonists?
Under British rule Africans prospered with health care they can only dream of nowadays.

Brigantes wrote:

You have a very clouded or bias view of Colonialism.
Blacks prospered in many areas under European Colonialism,that is one reason they leave their homeland today and risk all to come to Europe.Do you really believe if Colonialism was so bad they would flock to the land of the Colonists?
Under British rule Africans prospered with health care they can only dream of nowadays.

I think if you're going to be a Troll, at least try and fake some intelligence or do some research before flaming. The arguments about what hinders Africa are quite complex.

One could argue that after the colonies stripped most countries of resources, wealth, people etc, it became fertile grounds for the likes of Mugabe, Idi Amin to flourish. This has led to a cycle of wide spread corruption, maladministration and poverty from which the continent is still recovering.

By way of example, as you often quote South Africa, a powerhouse of the continent, became independent only in 1961,
after over 300 years of colonial rule. This ushered in another era of discrimination more widely known as apartheid. Which officially ended in 1994, however looking at the country today some of the legacy effects of apartheid still persist.

So your arguments that persons were better treated under colonial rule, are seriously lacking in thought, judgement, and are missing a fundamental understanding of history.

The loss of freedom endured by persons in these situations, cannot be quantified in such broad sweeping claims as you are making.

The other issue is that persons like yourself often feel threatened by their own insecurities and shortcomings (literally ) that any person willing to engage in a better life for themselves or their families becomes a threat to you.

Instead of whining about where people should be migrating to and how they should live which is very difficult for you to influence per se, why not educate yourself or take up a hobby to reduce the stress.

Wish you well

A typical Liberal left dimwitted and biased reply.Trying to claim the moral highground but failing miserably.Totally oblivious to reality and having a brain programmed to the dimwitted thinking of todays politics.
Try again dumbo or at least keep quiet to stop showing yourself as having your head stuck where the sun does not shine.

Hi Julian,

I think this discussion and forum needs some serious moderation.

No forum member should be allowed to be insulted and foul-mouthed by another forum member!

Freedom of speech ends here when it is misused by people like 'Brigantes'.

Brigantes wrote:

A typical Liberal left dimwitted and biased reply.Trying to claim the moral highground but failing miserably.Totally oblivious to reality and having a brain programmed to the dimwitted thinking of todays politics.
Try again dumbo or at least keep quiet to stop showing yourself as having your head stuck where the sun does not shine.

I think the level of contribution you are providing indicates the level of intelligence you possess. Without sinking to that level, let me try to explain it in simple language so that you may grasp it.

Neither you nor any other so called "white person" or someone coming from a colonial country living today is responsible for something which happened hundreds of years ago.

You or anyone else for that matter are only responsible for your attitude and general dealings with people. Whether or not you choose to be sensitive to certain issues taking into account the historical significance of certain statements is purely a personal choice.

To call you names, and insult you would not give you the validity of your beliefs. I only wish that you open your mind to different perspectives, each has a place even one as distasteful and divergent as yours.

Freedom of speech allows dumb liberals to spout lies and half truth and to insult peoples intelligence.
No worries,Liberals are going through the death throws,their end is nigh.

Brigantes - but where is your argument? You state an opinion which is certainly your right to do, but then when challenged you don't make any attempt to back it up with objective facts, you simply resort to generalizations and name-calling...it's not a very mature reaction. You do yourself a dis-service, unless that is, you realise the paucity of your argument....which is the only conclusion I can draw from your behaviour.

What drivel.Where is the evidence from the other party?
Only generalisation and falsehood regarding colonialism.
Typical marxist liberal brainwashed liberal thought.
They dont have an argument for me to destroy.

Actually I would disagree with closing the post.

Brigantes colorful language highlights certain viewpoints, which needs expression, irrespective of how distorted they may appear.

Better to have them safely discharged on an internet forum than unleashing them on the public.

Distorted?

Which viewpoints are these?

-discussion temporarly closed after several reports- will read everything tomorrow and intervene

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this discussion is now definitely closed. By the way I banned an "unpleasant" member