to apply or not to apply for residency?

I think yes u can apply to get the permanent residence and as under Maltese law u can dual nationalities so it Willnt affect ur current nationality.after getting the permanent residence u have the all the rights to have the full benefits as their national do.to get the full information better to go to the citizenship office in valleta to give you the details about benefits.

Kahn3 wrote:

I think yes u can apply to get the permanent residence and as under Maltese law u can dual nationalities so it Willnt affect ur current nationality.after getting the permanent residence u have the all the rights to have the full benefits as their national do.to get the full information better to go to the citizenship office in valleta to give you the details about benefits.

I can't quite understand what you have said...Are you saying you become dual nationality with permanent residency, as that is very wrong!!

As a permanent resident, like he said, you will be entitled to the same as any Maltese, health care, benefits etc.

However, even being a normal resident here means on your return (if) to the Uk, you will be a tourist like anyone else and you will have to register your residence like anyother eu member choosing to move to the UK.

All is explained here:  http://homeaffairs.gov.mt/en/Pages/Home.aspx
Click on the relevant links or contact the office.

Also, as coxf0001 states do not confuse residency with Nationality. They are two very different things.

I also think that all previous forms of ID, residence etc have been superseded by the new E-Residence card and that should be applied for or in your case if you wish, apply for permanent Residency.

Regarding UK residency. Your UK passport should have the statement declaring your right to reside in the UK. Don't forget that all the time you are here, your passport must be current.

Unless you are earning mega bucks i see absolutely no benefit in having Permanent Residency.... Ordinary Residency in most cases will be  fine......

redmik wrote:

Regarding UK residency. Your UK passport should have the statement declaring your right to reside in the UK. Don't forget that all the time you are here, your passport must be current.

You may have the right to reside but if you have broken your ties with the UK ie sold your property, you still have to go through the same procedure as we did to live here.

We are not entitled to benefits or NHS and have to not only prove that we now live in the UK but prove we have broken all ties to Malta and that we are staying in the UK for 'a long period', which goes before a board for a decision (in the case of benefits.)

It's not quite as easy as going back and taking off where you left....I find it quite scary to be honest. I didn't really think about being able to return and the effect of becoming resident here. My shortfall. The effect on the children will be worse, having not lived in the UK.

coxf0001 wrote:

We are not entitled to benefits or NHS and have to not only prove that we now live in the UK but prove we have broken all ties to Malta and that we are staying in the UK for 'a long period', which goes before a board for a decision (in the case of benefits.)

It's not quite as easy as going back and taking off where you left....

I would be very interested to know where that information comes from because I do not believe it all to be fully true, except for the Benefits bit which is time constrained.
Are you a Permanent Resident here coxf0001?

Proving your entitlement

Hospitals are responsible for checking who should pay for NHS hospital treatment.
The hospital will ask you for evidence to prove that you intend to live in the UK permanently. The documents that you provide will depend on your circumstances.
Examples could include:
documents showing the sale of goods or property overseas
receipts showing shipping of goods to the UK
evidence that you're looking for work
evidence that you have bought property in the UK or have rented a property
papers that show you've applied for benefits
evidence that your children are attending school in the UK

Benefits 'Habitual Resident Test'

Even if you can show that you have a right to reside you may still need to show that you are habitually resident.

You will be asked questions to find out if you satisfy the habitual residence test. The Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) will then decide whether you have a right to reside and, if they decide that you do, they will then decide whether you are habitually resident. If you do not satisfy the test you will be refused most means-tested benefits. If this happens to you you should seek advice.

Still quite a lot of hassle, proving that you intend to stay!

Yes, I am a permanent resident here.

Deleted as I cross posted with cox  who has already suggested looking at the Habitual Residence test 

Thanks but there is one important point I found......................Quote:  UK nationals automatically have the right to reside so don't have to satisfy the right to reside part of the HRT.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/ben … e_test.htm

toonarmy9752 wrote:

Unless you are earning mega bucks i see absolutely no benefit in having Permanent Residency.... Ordinary Residency in most cases will be  fine......

I assume the original poster is talking about getting permanent residency after living in Malta for 5 years, not the one where you have to pay mega bucks to live here if you are a TCN, its confusing when they call it the same thing 

redmik wrote:

Thanks but there is one important point I found......................Quote:  UK nationals automatically have the right to reside so don't have to satisfy the right to reside part of the HRT.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/ben … e_test.htm

Yes, only the 'right to reside' it then continues to say that you may still have to prove 'habitual residency' Which through past experience means showing proof of breaking ties to Malta and that you have ties with the UK, ie family.

It states that you do not have to prove it if a UK National but also..........The habitual residence part of the test is also carried out on some UK nationals who have been living or working abroad. However, UK nationals automatically have the right to reside so don't have to satisfy the right to reside part of the HRT.
I think the difficulty arises if wishing to claim Benefits.

Also found this:

Returning to the UK after a period of time living away?

If you go anywhere abroad for more than three months, either for a one-off extended holiday for a
few months or to live permanently for several years, but then return to the UK to take up
permanent residence here again, then you will be entitled to receive free NHS hospital treatment
from the day you return. So will your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or
19 if in further education) if they are also living with you permanently in the UK again.
Once you are living here permanently you will become ordinarily resident and the Regulations will
cease to apply to you. Your spouse, civil partner and child will also be considered ordinarily
resident if they are living permanently in the UK with you. If they are not living permanently in the
UK then the Regulations will apply and in order to be entitled to free hospital treatment they will
have to meet one of the categories of exemption in their own right.
In common with those ordinarily resident in the UK, anyone who is exempt from charges for
hospital treatment will have to pay statutory NHS charges, eg prescription charges, unless they
also qualify for exemption from these, and will have to go onto waiting lists for treatment where
appropriate.

It's the 'proving' that you intend to be a permanent resident that is the problem.

coxf0001 wrote:

It's the 'proving' that you intend to be a permanent resident that is the problem.

Maybe I'm missing the point but I wonder why if as a UK National, with the right to reside on one's passport and one is exempt the test?

Because the UK add one other term to their residency process, called 'habitual' You have the right to reside, then you have to prove that it is now your habitual residency and that you do not intend to leave (for a long period.) You have to prove that ties are broken in the country you left and you have ties is the UK, whether you have the right to reside or not. It is 2 different things.

I fully understand why it is done for those immigrants without a right to permanently reside in UK though but not for UK Nationals with the right to Permanently Reside unless claiming Benefits. I think that is the important point and is as stated.

redmik wrote:

coxf0001 wrote:

It's the 'proving' that you intend to be a permanent resident that is the problem.

Maybe I'm missing the point but I wonder why if as a UK National, with the right to reside on one's passport and one is exempt the test?

It was brought in to try and curb the amount of EU citizens from claiming benefits so they are trying to make it harder and they have included British citizens who have lived abroad in this.  With regard to the NHS it is probably because a large number of British citizens take up residency in another country but still travel to England for NHS treatment thereby abusing the system.

Quite agree with the immigrants claiming Benefits and 3 month period for losing entitlement for NHS but no problem upon returning for those with right to abide.

Through my own experience a few years ago, despite having a permanent address in the UK, family in the UK and children in school in the UK and proving with flight tickets that I had been back to the UK within 5 years, they still decided I was 'not convincing enough' in showing that I intend to stay. (mind you, I did return back to Malta)

I'll PM you.

Just to clarify the issue regarding NHS treatment upon return to UK after living abroad:

If you move to England permanently or return to live in England permanently, you're entitled to free NHS hospital treatment.
Like other UK residents, you'll have to pay some NHS charges (for example, for prescriptions), unless you are exempt from these.
If you move to the UK, you will not be charged for NHS hospital treatment from the date that you arrive as long as:
you intend to live permanently in the UK, and
you have the right to live permanently in the UK or have a "route to settlement" that will allow permanent residence in due course
You'll be expected to prove that you meet these requirements.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1087.aspx?C … goryID=162

Yes but it still has to be proved that you are intending to reside permanently, just like any other eu citizen moving to the UK.

"If you move to the UK, you will not be charged for NHS hospital treatment from the date that you arrive as long as:
you intend to live permanently in the UK, and
you have the right to live permanently in the UK or have a "route to settlement" that will allow permanent residence in due course
You'll be expected to prove that you meet these requirements."

Perhaps if you are returning to your property it may not notice that you left but then you didn't cut ties with the UK. If ties have been cut and you move abroad, become resident there, on your return you will have to prove that ties have been cut in that country and that you have ties in the UK and that you intend to stay.

"UK/EEA citizens that are permanent UK
residents are fully entitled to free hospital
treatment, however they need to satisfy the
Trust that they are permanent, lawful UK
residents and provide satisfactory documentary
evidence. Until such time as a Trust is satisfied
of this, they will charge for healthcare."

"Entitlement to Free NHS Hospital Treatment
As entitlement to NHS hospital treatment is primarily based on
UK residency, if you have been living outside the UK for more
than 3 months in the last year, or 6 months if you are a
pensioner living in another EEA member state, you may be
charged for your healthcare unless:
You can provide evidence that you have returned to
the UK with right of abode to resume permanent
residence;
You can provide evidence you have been working
abroad for less than 5 years and have lived in the UK
legally for ten continuous years at some point;"

https://www.whittington.nhs.uk/document.ashx?id=3227

It is providing the evidence, it is not as simple as just slipping back into your old life.

Both of us actually saying the same thing here.
Everyone has their own experiences and as the last line I included states.....................You'll be expected to prove that you meet these requirements.
Also not being a Permanent Resident elsewhere should help, another reason not to take Permanent Residency.
British Passport states right of abode and owning property should do it. Apart from one's entire family living there.
My parents had no problem after years in Australia and I do not expect any, when the day comes.
Speaking specifically about the NHS that is. (I did actually de-register from the NHS before we left along with informing HMRC and DWP etc.)
Benefits are another matter and may not be claimed immediately.
I am having to prepare an emergency contingency plan (just in case) for serious family health reasons. That's why I was so interested.

I've been thinking (scary I know ) but with Scotland (possibly) being independent and will no longer be in the EU and hints of England coming out of the EU, where does that leave the expats...Would permanent residency here now be an advantage??

I think that 'wait and see' is the strategy here and of course read political articles from good sources. I am sure that there will be a lot of speculation though.

coxf0001 wrote:

I've been thinking (scary I know ) but with Scotland (possibly) being independent and will no longer be in the EU and hints of England coming out of the EU, where does that leave the expats...Would permanent residency here now be an advantage??

well firstly after today , vote Scotland will not just suddenly become indpendent .. it will be up to the snp and Alex salmond to set a timescale in which he intends to move forward with independence , part of which will involve many discussions with europe , as to scotland involvment in the eu. Whilst they may not be granted Eu status straight away one suspects they will be included in the eea so scottish citizens in other countries will not suddnely lose their rights in respect of eu law  and in terms of residency,. Alex Salmond has already made it clear he wants to retain Eu membership so we shall see what happens in that respect.

March 2016 is the time being talked about - so far - but personally i think it will take much longer than to ironout all the things required

As others have said there is and will be a lot of speculation especially about England leaving the EU because it hasn't happened before so no precedent has been set.  I assume that if England does leave the EU then it will be up to the government of the country that expats reside in to decide whether they can stay or not and so those expats that already have permanent residency will be more protected.  With regard to Scotland, again there is much speculation and as toon has said I think it will take a while to sort things out whatever the outcome of the vote today is.

malta and  uk have always had a special bond - and reciprocal agreements were in place long befere the EU existed so why should it change  - but it could  - thats the bit that must be considered.

toonarmy9752 wrote:

malta and  uk have always had a special bond - and reciprocal agreements were in place long befere the EU existed so why should it change  - but it could  - thats the bit that must be considered.

Yes, that's what I was thinking and as Rainbow said, it will come down to the country you are residing in to decide....Let's hope they don't get fed up with us

Just before we get our wrists slapped  look at the original topic subject and we shouldn't debate politics. (Can be a shame not to though.) 

I was posting because of the original question...she asked about the advantage of permanent residency and this could be one of them?!

coxf0001 wrote:

I was posting because of the original question...she asked about the advantage of permanent residency and this could be one of them?!

Yes, I agree with you

I know Cox and rainbow,  and quite right. I was just heading off the Scottish debate stuff and teasing admins