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Alliecat

Ramon1990 wrote:

Believe me! You're not the first one I've met that said so, and I think you wouldn't be the last!
Ramon,


Dear, it's a pretty good rule of thumb that when many people say the same thing about you, it's true.  Perhaps a little less talk and a little more introspection are in order.

happyexpat654

personally I am full of respect and appreciation of a woman abide by the law here.

CAF

:offtopic:

Lets get back to talking about the head scarves!!!!  I love them!  I recently purchased two more, a blue one and one that is black & while.  They will look lovely with my [abaya] - worn around my neck!  lol  :lol:

Alliecat

happyexpat654 wrote:

personally I am full of respect and appreciation of a woman abide by the law here.


I abide by the many laws here but the law does not require non-muslims to wear head scarves! 

Some non-muslim women wear one to avoid the possibility of an encounter with the mutawa and I can understand that.  Others of us, however, don't--we cherish this tidbit of freedom and cling to it ferociously.

CAF

Yes, Indeed!  :top:

Alliecat

CAF wrote:

Yes, Indeed!  :top:


And a double :top::top: to you, too, neighbor! (said in a Ned Flanders voice lol)

MisterStretch

You think it's a belief or something we made it up. It's not.


Show me where I said that, please.

I don't think a person who has a life based on dreams, and some traveling experience would understand that.


You think wrong.  I have seen many different cultures and religious practices...not just one.  I am not speaking from my dreams but from what I have seen, witnessed and experienced.  Reality.

And secondly, you don't get to talk about my belief like you know it better than I do, and then shush me up.


Again, show me where I have done that.  Don't put words in my mouth.

I can speak for myself just fine, thank you.

You may wanna read the whole replies and know who really did put this a religious subject in the first place.


'Twasn't me.

And "discussing" with you is a wasted exercise, in my opinion.  I shan't be doing it again.

jillndave

As this thread is about head scarves. My Grandmother used to wear a headscarf to keep her rollers in place. Very colourful they were too.

WTENGEL

In the interest of civility I think we should get back on topic.

I have seen colored headscarves before, and it doesn't seem to be an issue. I have also seen it attract unwanted attention not necessarily from the Mutawa, but from younger guys (of all nationalities).

Anyway, the best advice I can give you from my limited experience is this: you can get away with not covering your hair most of the time, however if it was my wife, I would advise her to carry a head scarf with her and be ready to cover in case she was asked. This is the easiest and least dramatic solution to the situation. If she wants, when the person that asked her to cover has left she can uncover her hair.

The best policy is to not attract attention. This is true no kayter where you travel, but especially so here. Wearing brightly colored scarves will attract attention. Outright refusing to cover your hair when asked (whether required or not) will also do this.

I understand why the other conversation is going on, and I have my own thoughts in regards to these issues, but at this point I think it has become un productive.

Cheers!

Ramon1990

Well said, WTENGEL! :top:

Alliecat

jillndave wrote:

As this thread is about head scarves. My Grandmother used to wear a headscarf to keep her rollers in place. Very colourful they were too.


And quite lovely she was, too, rollers and all ;)

jillndave

Allicat, you must be on about a different Grandmother. This one was a dragon, although I never saw her breath fire I'm sure that I saw steam coming out of her ears.

wael hassan

it is advisable to be careful, however i did not see any religious police objecting to the scarves coulours.
"be yourself no matter what they say"

have fun!

anil.soni

I saw few Arab females with colorful and white scarves near Faisaliah. Didn't even see anyone bothering them. I beleive what matters is how you carry yourself with the scarf be it any color.

Cheers.

musicman

Intolerance is a trait of all groups, religions, and even nations as is practiced on the ground today. What the religions teach may not necessarily be what is practiced, sadly.

Look around and count the number of situations across the divide where intolerance reigns supreme while many prefer to look the other way.

Sad, but true.

Abdulatif

Dear friends

What ramon say is right. Here some are talking their igonorance about islam, though they are muslims. Covering hair of muslim women is a must - please understand laws of islam is same - either in Saudi Arabia or any other part of the world. Islamic laws and regulations are not made by man like some other relegions made addings or deductions. They are perfect as they are and will be as they are without any change.

I am an expact and I know I have to obey the rules and regulation of this country or any other country i am as me and others have to obey the rules and regulations of our mother country. I agree with the statement that we are here because the government invited us, but you have to understand the other side also that you can leave the coutry if you cant follow with its rules. No body is forcing you to continue here.

Muslims, please learn Islam well and try to live as true followers of the religion. Dont let others laugh at your ignorance.

Abdulatif

Alliecat

I am NON-Muslim.  I do not (nor will I) wear a head scarf.  It has nothing to do with obeying the laws here--there is NO LAW that says a non-Muslim must cover her head. 

When are you going to understand that?

musicman

PuddyTat, there are many such Non-Laws here but there are those in authority who do insist and demand that people obey them based on their own homemade theories. You cant escape from them if they confront you defying their homemade laws since they do have the power to take you in and dish out the daisies. You cant fight that.

There is no law here that women cant drive. Try putting a rented car on the road with your International (or even US) driving license and watch the fireworks.

Alliecat

musicman wrote:

PuddyTat, there are many such Non-Laws here but there are those in authority who do insist and demand that people obey them based on their own homemade theories. You cant escape from them if they confront you defying their homemade laws since they do have the power to take you in and dish out the daisies. You cant fight that.

There is no law here that women cant drive. Try putting a rented car on the road with your International (or even US) driving license and watch the fireworks.


musicTat (lol), many  women in rural areas do drive here and nobody raises an eyebrow.

As for non-Muslims being harrassed to cover their heads, it's clearly a control issue. When this person (the 'M' word!) is busy chasing women around malls, harrassing them, he just appears to be a bully.  He certainly isn't creating any good will--rather, he sets an example that men should bully women.  But then again, maybe this is the point?  From what I've heard, they don't harrass women who are with their husbands, just single women.  What does that say?

As for me, if somebody is in my face screaming 'Cover head! Cover head!' .. well, if I happen to have a scarf, I do (I realize I have no rights in this country, that I am susceptible to the whims of any  Tom, Dick or Harry) .. and 30 seconds later, remove it (like everybody does).   What was the point?  Their momentary 'victory'?

Now, I understand that there IS a place for mutawa.  They are a kind of 'neighborhood watch' and from what I have been reading, crime is increasing in Riyadh. So a neighborhood watch is a very good thing, certainly more useful than harrassing non-Muslim women in malls.  So why are they in the Malls, rather than out on the streets where they could actually be doing some good?

DesertDog

Alliecat wrote:

As for me, if somebody is in my face screaming 'Cover head! Cover head!' .. well, if I happen to have a scarf, I do (I realize I have no rights in this country, that I am susceptible to the whims of any  Tom, Dick or Harry) .. and 30 seconds later, remove it (like everybody does).   What was the point?  Their momentary 'victory'?


Exactly what my wife does, she has never been asked while I am with her strangely enough, but then I think they would ask me to tell her?

Sometimes she may say 'thank-you' or 'shukran' with a smile, this really confuses them ;)

Waste of time arguing with them.

Fidgety Soul

Errrrr............Wear it if u r comfy with it and don't if u r not enjoying it.I like to wear it most of time and i prefer colored flowery ones :) and we encountered Mutawas just 2 feet away and they were completely "OK" with it

Alliecat

Good morning, Nonzie!! :)

I totally agree.  But mm was making the point that .. while those particular 'M' were totally okay with it, you could, an hour later, find yourself being harrassed by another 'M' who wasn't okay with it.  There aren't any 'across the board' rules.

And, BTW, were you with your hubby?  There seems to be a big difference between the way they treat single women (who don't have a husband to stand up to them) and married women (who do).

musicman

They probably get a kink out of confronting single expat women with colorful head scarves so that they can count the number of flowers printed on it

quickfish

Hi, I'm new here. I have been living in Dhahran for 11 years. I'm a bit confused about the headscarf for non-muslims. Most over here, in Al-Khobar, here seem to go for the abaya but not the scarf. I'd be happy enough to wear it if I thought I was offending locals (not just the religious police, but society in general)  by not doing so, but some of the expat ladies who have been living here for a very long time tell me that they were told NOT to wear it. The advice our company gives on dress does not mention covering the head at all, just says cover arms & legs. If I were to wear the complete Saudi-style outfit, would that not seem a bit deceptive, making me look as if I were pretending to be a local?

Alliecat

quickfish wrote:

Hi, I'm new here. I have been living in Dhahran for 11 years. I'm a bit confused about the headscarf for non-muslims. Most over here, in Al-Khobar, here seem to go for the abaya but not the scarf. I'd be happy enough to wear it if I thought I was offending locals (not just the religious police, but society in general)  by not doing so, but some of the expat ladies who have been living here for a very long time tell me that they were told NOT to wear it. The advice our company gives on dress does not mention covering the head at all, just says cover arms & legs. If I were to wear the complete Saudi-style outfit, would that not seem a bit deceptive, making me look as if I were pretending to be a local?


Hi quickfish, welcome to the forum!!  What you have to bear in mind is that Riyadh is much much MUCH more conservative than Al-Khobar. 

Everything I ever read directed at expats said arms and legs should be covered.. with no mention of heads (which is religious, not cultural).

As we were saying just above, some of the mutawa, in their 'zeal,' harrass non-Muslims, something they shouldn't be doing but it seems they do as they please.

I have never 'offended' locals by not covering my head.  I work  primarily with Saudi's and they have been happy to accept me for who I am (as I have done with them).  I've never noticed anyone aghast (!!!) while viewing my hair (!!!!) when out shopping!  So it's not about the locals, in my opinion.  Rather, it's about over-zealous Mutawa.

Now, I know non-Muslim women who do cover their heads (to avoid any potential contact with said mutawa) and there has never been an issue with the local populace for pretending to be local.

As Nonz said earlier, do what makes you feel comfortable but in Riyadh, be prepared for possible confrontations (only happpened to me twice, though).

We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.

musicman

The concept in the mind of the locals, based on their culture and tradition, is that any woman who chooses to expose her hair and body is a loose woman. Thats where the whole issue stems from.

No doubt the religion requires that a woman must draw her veil over her bosom in public as defined in the Qur'an and supported by the dress code of the women of the Prophets time.

Alliecat

mm, the younger women I know here who don't cover their heads and frequent the malls aren't harrassed by the locals who think they're 'loose.'  Just the 'M'.

MaserMan

I was thinking of getting a cerise one similar to the stade francais strip.

Do you think that would be acceptable? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Alliecat

MaserMan wrote:

I was thinking of getting a cerise one similar to the stade francais strip.


:huh:

musicman

Alliecat wrote:

mm, the younger women I know here who don't cover their heads and frequent the malls aren't harrassed by the locals who think they're 'loose.'  Just the 'M'.


They may not say it out loud, I mean the non 'M' locals but they sure believe it inside...... no doubt about that.

Its the brainwashing, stupid!

MaserMan

For all you non rugby loving guys out there here is Stade's 2010 shirt, could not find their 2009 but you get the idea :P

I think it would be rather fetching as a scarf!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/shed17/41ByVE25W0L_SL500_AA300_.jpg

jillndave

I must say, it suites the French but I'm shocked. :blink:

They do not look like Petunias or Pansies. But what the hell, flowers on a rugby player. They hope to win while the opposition are laughing. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Alliecat

It looks like a Hawaiian surfer's shirt!

Guest8748

My six-year old daughter would love this top but maybe I'm missing the point? :D

zb_kh

People don't understand the reason for the head scarf which is why there is so much hoopla over the entire issue. Its like telling someone not to press the big red button without giving him any reason. It is incumbent upon the government to, at the least educate the people before enforcing the law upon them.

The communication gap leaves everyone upset. Wearing a head scarf is nothing but a sign of modesty and a god-fearing character that is expressed through clothing. It is Islams purpose to inculcate this into the entire human race. There are ofcourse people with their own opinions..BUT..as the Quranic verse makes it clear:

"...it may be, that you hate a thing which is good for you, and it may be, that you love a thing which is bad for you: and your Creator knows best, whereas you do not know." (2:216)

The Government in Saudi Arabia although not fully correct, is only trying to maintain these laws in the very country where Islam was founded so as to keep the culture of Islam intact. Foreign elements are also expected to observe these rules simply because if they do not, they will introduce into Saudi society, elements that will tempt the masses (mainly the youth) to change the culture which would mean, society would move away from the culture established by Islam. As you can already see this happening among the youth in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis in Khobar/Dammam run to Bahrain to visit bars and brothels which is a grave sin for us muslims. This is only a small example of the changes. Once this becomes 'normal' , the cultural aspect of Islam will be lost completely. Lots of unwanted things will become acceptable in Society, then who is to blame for this but the leaders that controlled the population. It is a responsibility they must undertake, just as it is the responsibility of a parent to rear his child as a good, honorable human being.

It is also the responsibility of the Creator to Guide His Creations...Thus Islam!

musicman

It may also be prudent to mention that all the monotheistic religions have had their women shown with covered head and long flowing cloaks through the ages which simply substantiates the fact that this was what their scripture taught.

zb_kh

Another analogy, would you allow a teenager who is a friend of your child's to smoke a cigarette in your own home, where you have raised your own child to reject the habit of smoking? You most certianly will not. You will expect this friend of your child to follow the rules you have established in your house. This is the same in this case.

zb_kh

You are right mm,

For example a Nun. Her clothing is the symbol and expression of her dedication to God. The moment you hear the word nun, you always imagine a woman who is chaste and fully covered in a modest dress. It is highly encouraged for everyone to be dedicated to God, but the person who does not wish to do this, is only acting upon his own decision. Just like it is encouraged that everyone be a non-smoker, but the one who does not follow this is going against what has been defined as 'good'

It is not the non-smokers fault! The fault lies upon the one who is following his/her own desires. But man is a rebel and he will protect the right to pursue his own desires and will always justify it.

Sparrow

The moment you hear the word 'Nun' you know she had none ;)

musicman

Not unless she is NONZ...

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