Stuff That Can Happen To You If You Visit the U.S. Embassy in Ecuador

Re #3 What did they do for her?

You might also be interested to know that some of those window workers may be subcontracted, and not Dept. of State employees at all.

Security who removed your phone is also probably subcontracted.

gardener1 wrote:

You might also be interested to know that some of those window workers may be subcontracted, and not Dept. of State employees at all.

Security who removed your phone is also probably subcontracted.

I'm sure you're right about this, especially the security.  I noticed them wearing logo hats that implied being from an EC security company.

cccmedia in Quito

cccmedia wrote:

The Embassy rep then verbally went over her reason for coming:  she was alleging that her (unidentified) man had beaten her up, taken her passport and was keeping her child in the country without her permission.

I know all this because the Embassy rep's comments were broadcast throughout the waiting area via a speaker at that window for all 15 or so of us in the area to hear.

The Embassy rep gave the woman some legal guidance, all of it audible.

This is how I recall it:

She was told how to prepare for the possibility that her guy might seek a legal document that could give him certain rights to keep the child in the country. 

She was also advised that if she pursued any legal action against him, she might prolong the situation.

It was unclear what path she will decide to take in the matter.

cccmedia in Quito

How awful. Think I would have gone to a lawyer (or the cops even) in the first place. US Embassy probably a worse bureaucracy than the visa people. What if she'd been raped?

If a rape survivor goes to the hospital, the hospital must get a fiscal to order a "rape kit" via written order.  Until that is done no further action can be taken by the hospital.  So the survivor must wait until that is accomplished.  Or allow the hospital perform whatever procedures are customary in such cases - which eliminates the evidence of the crime of rape.  This is different from the practice in the US.

The US Embassy does provide (even on weekends) assistance to AmCits who are the victims of crime (making a police report etc - will go to the hospital or to the jail...)  But such assistance is limited and constrained by the laws of the host country.  And laws can be very different in every country.

The primary purpose of any embassy is to represent their government before the host nation.

In no instances does the assisting/advocating and representing its citizens in the host nation end up countermanding  some of the laws/ customary procedures?  Doesn't the Embassy have some recourse to the host government?  As American citizens aren't we part of our government?

So rape can never really be prosecuted in Ecuador? American citizen or Ecuadorian? If she'd been assaulted and covered with bruises would they (the police? the Embassy rep?) have taken photos and tried to arrest the man? Have read on this Forum about the issue of domestic violence in EC and the relative tolerance for it.

Don't want to start another crime thread. I think it would be interesting to hear about anyone's experience with US Embassies around the world that they are free to talk about. Sure their primary purpose is to represent the US government but they serve other functions and might go to greater lengths to protect US citizens depending on where they were and what was going on.

suefrankdahl wrote:

Sure their primary purpose is to represent the US government but they serve other functions and might go to greater lengths to protect US citizens depending on where they were and what was going on.

It's important to note the difference between embassies and consulates. The embassy's function is to represent the US government. One of the functions of a consulate is to provide services to US citizens (they call it the 'Citizen's Services Department', I think).

In a national capitol, such as Quito, there is both an embassy and a consulate (on the same grounds). Other cities have only a consulate.

suefrankdahl wrote:

In no instances does the assisting/advocating and representing its citizens in the host nation end up countermanding  some of the laws/ customary procedures?... I think it would be interesting to hear about anyone's experience with US Embassies around the world that they are free to talk about. Sure their primary purpose is to represent the US government but they serve other functions and might go to greater lengths to protect US citizens depending on where they were and what was going on.

How about you...Do you propose any change(s) to better protect US citisens...

cccmedia in Quito

So rape can never really be prosecuted in Ecuador? American citizen or Ecuadorian?

Rape is a felony (delito) in Ecuador.  And is prosecuted.  However, the rules of collecting evidence are different.

cccmedia wrote:

suefrankdahl wrote:

In no instances does the assisting/advocating and representing its citizens in the host nation end up countermanding  some of the laws/ customary procedures?... I think it would be interesting to hear about anyone's experience with US Embassies around the world that they are free to talk about. Sure their primary purpose is to represent the US government but they serve other functions and might go to greater lengths to protect US citizens depending on where they were and what was going on.

How about you...Do you propose any change(s) to better protect US citisens...

cccmedia in Quito

It was a rhetorical question I guess. What came to mind was war zones and embassies in countries where there are strained relations with the US.

quito0819 wrote:

So rape can never really be prosecuted in Ecuador? American citizen or Ecuadorian?

Rape is a felony (delito) in Ecuador.  And is prosecuted.  However, the rules of collecting evidence are different.

Am translating delito as defacto. If collecting evidence is more difficult then prosecution is less likely or successful, no?.Thanks for good info and feedback. We are going off topic a bit and don't want to start another crime thread.

delito is equivalent to a felony while contravención is equivalent to a misdemeanor offense. 

In the US the police (and criminal investigations) and the prosecutors are separate entities.  In Ecuador (and many other countries) the police are agents of the prosecutors (fiscales).  No investigation may be opened without a fiscal authorizing the investigation.  Hence the collection of a "rape kit"needs the written authorization of a fiscal as it represents the beginning of an investigation.  The only exception are "plain sight" crimes that police come upon or are called to: eg, a purse snatching or robbery in progress. 

The Ecuadorian legal system is based on civil law and very different from the US (except LA (state) which also uses civil law.

Always quick, easy and efficient. Needed extra pages in my passport, took 15 minutes instead of weeks as in the states. Also renewed my passport at the embassy. Brought the completed forms on a Thursday and had my new passport the following Monday. You'd pay a lot of money for that kind of expediting in the states.

I have a problem with a U.S. passport not being enough ID. It's issued by the U.S. State Department. Should I also need a state drivers license to prove who I am to the United States government? What if all your documents are lost/stolen? Are you forever stateless?

(Moderated: inappropriate)

BrandonBP wrote:

What if all your documents are lost/stolen? Are you forever stateless?

All passport-holders should make some copies of their passports (and probably other key documents) so that you're not SOL in the case of loss or theft of a document.

Certainly the Embassy is not going to turn you away and prevent you from leaving the country by stonewalling you if you show up with a copy of your passport and reasonably explain that the original was lost or stolen.

Before I got my cedula (EC ID) I always carried only a copy of my passport, not the original, unless I was going to the bank or a government office on a given day.  Now I just carry a copy of my cedula unless there's a good reason to bring original documents somewhere.

cccmedia in Quito

cccmedia wrote:

BrandonBP wrote:

What if all your documents are lost/stolen? Are you forever stateless?

All passport-holders should make some copies of their passports (and probably other key documents) so that you're not SOL in the case of loss or theft of a document.

I should also carry copies of my car key in case I'm locked out of my car. But does it mean I don't own my car anymore because I lost the key and don't have a copy on me? Should I have to jump through hoops to prove my U.S. citizenship to a bureaucracy that can easily identify me as a U.S. citizen if they so wished?

That passport cost me a lot of money. It's a document that, as a U.S. citizen, I should get for free. Yet now I've paid a huge "fee" for their "services" (god bless them for their charity) and I can't receive some sort of relief as a "citizen" at my own embassy? Am I a citizen or a subject?

BrandonBP wrote:

I have a problem with a U.S. passport not being enough ID. It's issued by the U.S. State Department. Should I also need a state drivers license to prove who I am to the United States government? What if all your documents are lost/stolen? Are you forever stateless?

The government is reading every e-mail and recording every phone call, yet they claim to not know who I am?

-Passport not being "enough" for what?

One should never keep all personal documents and identification in the same place.

When I travel I keep credit cards, drivers license, and passport in separate places so if I get mugged or robbed there is a reduced chance they'll get everything.

(my daughter who is well endowed, is notorious for carrying everything but her lunch stuffed down her chesticles)

And yes, one should always make copies of important documents and keep them in a safe place, separate from the originals.

gardener1 wrote:

When I travel I keep credit cards, drivers license, and passport in separate places so if I get mugged or robbed there is a reduced chance they'll get everything.

(Moderated: inappropriate comment)

And I think this misses the entire point. The original post says that the embassy wanted MORE than a mere passport as identification. The same State Department that issued the passport now doesn't trust it.

ecuador.usembassy.gov/service/make-an-appointment.html

Read "Important Information" in the right hand column.

BrandonBP wrote:

Am I a citizen or a subject?

Is that a rhetorical question? 

I believe the term is more like tax slave, or serf. Know your place.

gardener1 wrote:

I believe the term is more like tax slave, or serf. Know your place.

I've learned my place. Others are beginning to learn, too. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … geous.html

The mayor of London lived in the U.S. until he was 5 years old. Now the IRS wants over $100,000 because he sold his house in London. Some of you expats might find this familiar.

BrandonBP wrote:

That passport cost me a lot of money. It's a document that, as a U.S. citizen, I should get for free. Yet now I've paid a huge "fee" for their "services" (god bless them for their charity) and I can't receive some sort of relief as a "citizen" at my own embassy? Am I a citizen or a subject?

If you lose your passport IMO you should not get a free one.

A person who expects that is asking other taxpayers to foot the bill for his or her irresponsibility, forgetfulness or carelessness.

If you lose your passport and the Embassy replaces it for any reasonable charge, that qualifies as "some sort of relief."

I would be thrilled that I could get a replacement if I lost my passport while traveling overseas, and wouldn't complain about being treated as a supposed "subject" of the state.

cccmedia in Quito

gardener1 wrote:

The mayor of London lived in the U.S. until he was 5 years old. Now the IRS wants over $100,000 because he sold his house in London.

Now THAT'S something worth complaining about.

cccmedia wrote:

If you lose your passport IMO you should not get a free one.

I've never lost a passport. I've owned two passports with one renewal.

From the U.S. State Department: Adult Passport Book    $110 + $25

cccmedia wrote:

A person who expects that is asking other taxpayers to foot the bill for his or her irresponsibility, forgetfulness or carelessness.

And this is another discussion entirely. But, you are correct. Why should I ever have to pay for someone else's "irresponsibility, forgetfulness or carelessness?" As in failure to save money for retirement, or to feed one's children, or to have health insurance. (moderated: inappropriate).

I believe the gubment also escalated the fees this year for surrendering citizenship. It now costs over $4,000 from $400, and two trips to an embassy to discontinue being an American. They claim their paperwork and processing costs went up.

Mo money.

cccmedia wrote:

Apparently, your booklet is already out of date, as I total $165 as the minimum for application and production of an adult passport.

Actually, in the first part of 2013 I paid to have mine expedited which was $185 or something close. It was way too much. $5 or $10 is a fee. $185 is a tax. A tax on something that a citizen should have the right to have. Should a federal identification document be a privilege?

I worked for the U.S. government for 17 years. I know what sort of contempt they have for the average citizen and what maliciousness they plan for the future. But I'm also guilty. I consider myself an intelligent man, and sanctioning the malfeasance I saw for that long is not excused by immaturity and naivete. All I can do about it all now is complain and wait for the day that I'm financially able to move to a beautiful place like Ecuador for good.

BrandonBP wrote:

I worked for the U.S. government for 17 years. I know what sort of contempt they have for the average citizen and what maliciousness they plan for the future. But I'm also guilty. I consider myself an intelligent man, and sanctioning the malfeasance I saw for that long is not excused by immaturity and naivete. All I can do about it all now is complain and wait for the day that I'm financially able to move to a beautiful place like Ecuador for good.

Naivete, you say...

We love it here in the Land of the Sun...but...

If you think you're moving to a place where the bureaucracy is less, shall we say, problematic, you may have some surprises coming when you apply for a residency visa or try to get your overseas mail processed.

cccmedia in Quito

cccmedia wrote:

We love it here in the Land of the Sun...but...

If you think you're moving to a place where the bureaucracy is less, shall we say, problematic, you may have some surprises coming when you apply for a residency visa or try to get your overseas mail processed.

Yeah, I know. There's no libertarian paradise until I can be king of my own island and choose to leave all the residents alone.

But I felt very free in Ecuador. I saw one single traffic stop in three months, and I was in it.  My cabbie was driving like an idiot and almost ran over some pedestrians in the crosswalk. He got pulled over by a motorcycle and the cop told him to stop driving like a moron and then sped away.

I could walk down the street with a bottle of beer in Banos and none of the cops accosted me. Try that in the U.S. The National Police came by my hostel twice to check passports and shook my hand and introduced themselves respectfully and then played pool with us. When I got back to the USA, the Customs inspectors in Atlanta held me for four hours because obviously a single male travelling from Bogota with one bag must be a drug mule. The U.S. inspectors were very nasty and I missed my connecting flight and, as a result, also my ride from Memphis airport.

So yes, there's bureaucracy in Ecuador.  I don't like it any more than I do in the USA. But the Ecuadoran cops aren't going to fine me or take me jail for merely living. The Ecuadorans aren't reading my e-mails and listening to my cellular conversations. The Ecuadorans won't spend my money to drop bombs on hospitals and fund terrorists that hate me.

I don't think Ecuador is perfect by any means. But I love it. I want to make my life there one day. I know they'll let me live in peace.

BrandonBP wrote:

When I got back to the USA, the Customs inspectors in Atlanta held me for four hours because obviously a single male travelling from Bogota with one bag must be a drug mule. The U.S. inspectors were very nasty

Every serf is now a suspect. If not drugs then ter-orists. How much money do you have serf, and why do you have money? Good serfs have all of their money removed for their own benefit.

The Corrections Corporations of America is a publicly traded company on Wall Street. Feeding the beast.

gardener1 wrote:

Every serf is now a suspect. If not drugs then ter@orists. How much money do you have serf, and why do you have money? Good serfs have all of their money removed for their own benefit.

I know I'm going to sound like a contentious ass here, but I really wasn't. Going into secondary, the customs inspector asked me, "Do you claim responsibility for everything in this bag?" And I said, "I just got this bag off the conveyor, and I haven't seen it for the last 6 hours." So, he kept insisting that I answer yes or no only. I answered repeatedly that I had packed that bag but that I hadn't seen it for the last 6 hours.

So, he got loud with me and told me I had to answer his question only yes or no. To which I told him I HAD answered his question. So, then he told me to go wait on the bench. After 45 minutes of him ignoring me, he then takes out his lunch box and goes on break for 30 minutes. Then he comes back and ignores me some more. Then asks me again if I take responsibility for everything in my bag. I say, "That is my bag, sir. Please search it. You have the right under U.S.  border authority laws, so please, help yourself." He still won't search it and tells me to go sit on the bench again because I wouldn't say yes or no.

I ask for a supervisor, which I can see standing in the area wearing his silver oakleaves, and he won't talk to me. I keep asking them "Am I being detained? Will you please search my things and let me go? I've presented my US passport as proof of my citizenship and my bag for inspection. May I please go now?" I keep asking and they won't answer. Apparently, I have to answer their questions, but as the subject to the crown that I am, they don't have to answer basic questions about my detention.

I finally offer to call the Office of the Inspector General's office and report an unlawful detention, and they check my bag and let me go. It took four hours and I missed my plane. Was I to fault? Some of you will say yes. But each of us still maintains a 5th Amendment right to not succumb to questioning, even at the border. I had to provide evidence of my citizenship and present my things for inspection. And I did. I was in no way disagreeable to them other than not answering their questions the way they insisted.

So yeah, I'm done here. I served them for 17 years, and now that I'm not one of them, I'm treated as a criminal like every other regular citizen is now. When I was one of them, I could flash my get-out-of-jail-free card and I was immune to any of their tyranny. Perhaps you'll forgive me for not noticing how the American public is treated without federal credentials.

I'm not cattle, and my government shouldn't treat me as such.

a

gardener1 wrote:

(my daughter who is well endowed, is notorious for carrying everything but her lunch stuffed down her chesticles)

And yes, one should always make copies of important documents and keep them in a safe place, separate from the originals.

Do you think someone with generous chesticles might be safer with a fanny pac? LA men what's a girl to do in EC?

We also spent time working for the government with the special get-out-of-jail-free privileges. Life was good. But still they made it pretty clear that the magic carpet could be yanked out from underneath without a second thought or care.

I know well how they think. That's what motivates me to move somewhere else.

gardener1 wrote:

We also spent time working for the government with the special get-out-of-jail-free privileges. Life was good. But still they made it pretty clear that the magic carpet could be yanked out from underneath without a second thought or care.

I was arrogant and naive, I suppose. I knew what they were capable of doing to a person (I was responsible for such), but I didn't think they would do it to one of their own. I wish I could do it all over again.

I always wondered how the good German people could ever tolerate or even corroborate what their government had done in the 1930's. And then I realized one day that I had become the average 1930's Gestapo. I had three more years to retirement, and I lost my pension by leaving the government. And it's the best thing a good American can ever do for his fellow citizen. And no one (except you forum people) will ever know about any of it.

I guess I talk too much. And I drink too much, and I'm very fearful of what they'll do to me further. I come here anonymously to rant. But I'm just sick for South America. I loved it so very much, and I want to get back. I truly envy all of you good people that live there.

BrandonBP wrote:

. I served them for 17 years, and now that I'm not one of them, I'm treated as a criminal like every other regular citizen is now. When I was one of them, I could flash my get-out-of-jail-free card and I was immune to any of their tyranny. Perhaps you'll forgive me for not noticing how the American public is treated without federal credentials.

I'm not cattle, and my government shouldn't treat me as such.

Feds, state county or city and especially the little minions they pay to do the scut work. Not worth fighting or standing on the "dry rock of principle" First they get pissed off and then you make them nervous. Hope you get to EC soon

BrandonBP wrote:

gardener1 wrote:

We also spent time working for the government with the special get-out-of-jail-free privileges. Life was good. But still they made it pretty clear that the magic carpet could be yanked out from underneath without a second thought or care.

I guess I talk too much. And I drink too much, and I'm very fearful of what they'll do to me further. I come here anonymously to rant. But I'm just sick for South America. I loved it so very much, and I want to get back. I truly envy all of you good people that live there.

You should know better than anyone that "loose lips sink ships" Time for

suefrankdahl wrote:

You should know better than anyone that "loose lips sink ships" Time for

I was indoctrinated with that term, but sometimes loose lips can be a good thing. Ed Snowden had loose lips, and we should all thank him for it.

BrandonBP wrote:

I was indoctrinated with that term, but sometimes loose lips can be a good thing. Ed Snowden had loose lips, and we should all thank him for it.

Snowden is living in an undisclosed location in Russia and is seeking asylum in the European Union.
(Wikipedia)

"U.S. intelligence leaker Edward Snowden is living under guard at a secret address in Russia and sometimes emerges in disguise, although he remains in such danger that even a family visit could endanger his safety, his lawyer said..."
(Agence France-Presse)