BUYING APARTMENT IN HCM

hi VietCong, thanks for your post. Id also like to hear more about the intricacies of buying as per Gobot's post - you sound like you would have a fascinating experience for us to hear. To add to Gobots questions, id like to ask
if you bought in your own name, was it solely your name or did you partner with a Vn national.

Cheers
G

yes i am vietkieu from usa.
i buy condo one from agent and one from the developer
i pay cash , every month i pay 5 percent until i paid in full
u can live in ur condo once u paid 50 percent
all i need is a passport to buy my condo,   but i cant get the pink book until i prove to them that my parents are from vietnam and i was born in vn
u dont need the pink book to sell ur condo or rent it out.  all u need is the contract of ur condo provided by the developers
i am vietkieu but  not vnese citizens.  i am only usa citizens

i can only own my condo for 50 years and 50 years extension.  once again , u dont need the pink book to sell ur condo or rent it out

anything else u need to know

yes it is under my own name,  u can own ur own condo, no need vn nationals

if i understand it correctly, buying a condo or apartment
means paying  50 years rental in advance.

you DO NOT owned the property , you are just LEASING the property
under your name.

since it is possible to extend the lease
any idea how much will it cost the buyer to extend the lease
for the next 50 years?

cheers

hi all
my understanding of propery in Vn, is that Vn and foreigners can buy the building but the land is always leased.  so its leasehold, not freehold.

Vietcong, can you tell me more about paying 5% ? 5% of what? and do you mean you are paying by installment? could you also tell me about finding a lawyer - how did you get one right for you?
thanks
G

paulpoh wrote:

if i understand it correctly, buying a condo or apartment
means paying  50 years rental in advance.

you DO NOT owned the property , you are just LEASING the property
under your name.

since it is possible to extend the lease
any idea how much will it cost the buyer to extend the lease
for the next 50 years?

cheers

Do you think that you will live 100 more years?  Just asking. 

But more seriously, the only reason to own either a condo or a house in VN is to lock in a rental price and as you said it is up front.  Personally, I don't see how rentals will go up that much.  I once remember reading a Midwestern US economist saying that the rental price of corn ground is based on what corn is this year while the selling price is based on what the price will be 20 years out.   Home rentals are based on the ability to pay.   In a country where even professionals are making less than 20 million VND a month, how much could short term rentals come up in the next 5-10 years?

people buy property for many reasons
not because they want to live in their property for
the next 100 years or to locked in the rent
that is more applicable for businesses.

buying property is an investment
and for capital appreciation

vietnam is a developing country with a young population
property prices will only go up ... how much and how fast
no one knows

5 percent of tota price.  u can sell before 50 yrs or 100 yrs.  if u decide to live in vn for good, u better buy now.  the property only to go up

I don't think the following is a sure thing. 

vietcong161 wrote:

5 percent of tota price.  u can sell before 50 yrs or 100 yrs.  if u decide to live in vn for good, u better buy now.  the property only to go up

Currently small apartments in HCMC are trading, depending of location and quality from US$25k to some $50k.  This is about 20 to 40 times annual salaries.  The people in my outer district apartment made around 25 to 20 million VND per month and mostly were in management, technical or engineering type jobs.  In conversations with neighbors in homes nearby, I was told that very few of them could even come close to buying their homes at today's prices.  Empty lots there were trading for $100k.  Of course downtown is worse.  The market is illogical.

I believe several things have driven it up, but two that come to mind are:  migration of Northerners after '76, and incoming money from Viet Kieu after normalization.  The great majority of the VK in the US, and I assume other countries came during or after the American War.  These people were very successful because they were inherently risk takers, having gotten on that boat, and because they arrived in the US during a boom period.  These people are now in a position to cash in businesses and home equity and they bring that money to Vietnam.  This could be seen as good for Vietnam, but to the extent that they  invest in real estate rather than productive enterprises, the money tends to be inflationary.  In the next 10-20 years this generation will begin to die off and their children have no interest in Vietnam beyond an occasional holiday.  A large source of demand, people like vietcong161, will be diminishing in numbers.

My best guess is that it will take another 20 years for wages to get back in to equilibrium with price.  There is already some correction taking place.  Our rented one bedroom apartment, new in 2013, was purchased by our landlord for $25K.  When we left after two years in 2015 he sold it for $17K.  Yes, property can go down too.

can anybody tell me how the property market in HCMC has been developing since the original post may 2015?

do I understand correctly, the new law from last year permits foreigner to buy property just on a tourist visa?? if not so, which kind of status / visa is necessary?

are the any more reports of foreigners that have actually bought an apartment or house lately? Maybe any other internet site where one can find details?

thank you for any input, anderle

One more thing to consider for those who are really thinking of buying an apartment.  The asking prices for rentals on English language websites always seem substantially higher than on websites that are only in Vietnamese.  There is no reason to expect websites with places for sale to be any different.  This may go without saying but If you do not have a Vietnamese spouse, you really should seek out a trustworthy local friend to help with the apartment hunting.

right
still hoping that someone also will refer to my questions, thank you, anderle

Hi

It's good time to buy apartment. The economists estimate vietnam finance and economy increasing rapidly. You can search FBNC chanel and website. It's a lot of useful information in here.

[Moderated]
Have a good day.

Thank you

Funny how real estate agents sing the same tune the world over.   

dungnvikh wrote:

Hi  It's good time to buy apartment. The economists estimate vietnam finance and economy increasing rapidly.

right, and in case that Dung's post was a reply to mine she miserably failed, didn't refer to or answer any of my questions

if u guys want to a place to live , so why wait.  if u looking for buying a condo as an investment, then dont do it.  Put money in the bank get u 8 percent annualy

My (Vietnamese) wife bought a new apartment in Q8 about 4 years ago. The rental value there is very low so she has been trying to sell it for almost a year now. The price hasn't appreciated very much during the time that she has owned it. So she now decided keep it for use by her family when they visit HCMC.

If you can raise bit extra cash, have a look at some of the new developments in Q9 (very close to Q1 & 2). There are some very nice private "green estates' being built and the prices are reasonable. Most of the estates have private security, swimming pools and so on. And houses will always appreciate in value better than apartments - unless you buy in Q1 / Q2.

There are some apartments for sale in An Phu Q2, but some of them were built to house slum clearance folk and although only a few years old, the blocks are beginning to look seedy and run down.

Hi

I have agreed with you. Real estate in district 2,9 are increasing both of apartments, retails..... And district 7 especially phu my hung are growing rapidly.

If you need more informaion, please do not hesitate contact with me.

Thank you

It is always amazing that those who stand to profit from real estate transaction costs always paint a rosy picture.  Notice that eodmatt related that relatively new apartments in Q2 are beginning to look run down and dungnvkh says she agrees and that real estate in Q2 is increasing.  vietcong161 first told us that we should all hurry up and buy and that he has two places then decided to recommend against buying as an investment, apparently in contradiction to his own actions.

The real problem is that nobody can answer anderle's serious question regarding the price history in HCMC from May 2015 until now.   This is because the market is totally opaque compared to real estate in the West where both governments and real estate associations keep statistics and records.  dungnvkh appears to be a professional soliciting business on this forum but I doubt that she really knows herself.  Also if the trend was downward would she tell you?  Would you buy stocks from a broker if he/she told you to just trust him but that the exchange had no listings of past and current prices that you could see?  Would you even put your money in a savings account if the bank did not tell you the interest rate ahead of time.  Obviously real estate brokers cannot guarantee profits but they should be able to provide documentary evidence of recent price trends from reliable sources.  Caveat emptor.

dungnvkh:  If you can answer anderle's question using reliable and public information then you should do so.  Otherwise you should stop pumping up business.

Hi

I will send you some information about macro economists. This is the research from CBRE.

Actually, I always help customers to find the suitable apartment with reasonable price.

Thank you

dungnvikh wrote:

Hi

I will send you some information about macro economists. This is the research from CBRE.

Actually, I always help customers to find the suitable apartment with reasonable price.

Thank you

What anderle asked for, and what others are waiting for, are listings of home price closings in HCMC, not macroeconomic reports on the economy of Vietnam, even from an International real estate firm like CBRE   Any of us can easily look up such reports on the internet.  Where are the figures on actual sales?  I think you do not have them because they do not exist.

Please give me your email. I will send it to you.

Thank you

It's Vietnamese version. Is it ok?

@ dungnvikh >

Please note that advertising / offering your services is prohibited on the forum.
Can you please register in the business directory ?

Thank you,

Priscilla 

THIGV wrote:

dungnvikh wrote:

Hi

I will send you some information about macro economists. This is the research from CBRE.

Actually, I always help customers to find the suitable apartment with reasonable price.

Thank you

What anderle asked for, and what others are waiting for, are listings of home price closings in HCMC, not macroeconomic reports on the economy of Vietnam, even from an International real estate firm like CBRE   Any of us can easily look up such reports on the internet.  Where are the figures on actual sales?  I think you do not have them because they do not exist.

And even if they did exist, would they be reliable? As you say: Caveat Emptor!

Hi

I just give useful information.

Thank you

anderle wrote:

right, and in case that Dung's post was a reply to mine she miserably failed, didn't refer to or answer any of my questions

I don't know if this will assist you, nor do I have any means of knowing how accurate the monthly data figures are, but anyway, if you are having trouble sleeping, have a look at: www.savills.com.vn/research/savills-pro … index.aspx

thank you very much everybody for your valuable input, specially Eodmat, THIGV and vietcong161.
The advice with the 8% is a good one, a while ago I had thought that this giving a better yield and I do have some time deposits, but it's time to re-evaluate and to check out options.
haha eodmat, no worries, I am not uptight about all this a bit. I still have to learn to understand those graphs

please allow me to repeat one question:
can foreigners buy property on tourist Visa?? ( quite amazing, really, so already is being able to open bank accounts )

eodmatt wrote:

I don't know if this will assist you, nor do I have any means of knowing how accurate the monthly data figures are, but anyway, if you are having trouble sleeping, have a look at: www.savills.com.vn/research/savills-pro … index.aspx

I looked at the site which seemed very professional and opened a few of the pdf fact sheets.  They do indicate a slight uptick in prices for the last quarter after an extended period of essentially level prices since 2012.  One recent positive for speculators is that the absorption rate, essentially a ratio of sales to offerings, is up to 21%, meaning that units are moving ever so slightly better but a still little lower than a year ago.   Although prices were about the same as now, the absorption rate low was 5% in 2012.    (This is what happened in Hawaii, a very supply constrained market, in 2008-09 .  Asking prices remained the same, but no one could sell at those prices.)  Overall it looks like movement is improving in what has been a stagnant market for the last 3-4 years but prices have increased only slightly and there is no indication of a runaway market.

One thing that may protect HCMC prices from downward movement is that many if not most people bought or simply occupied their homes immediately after the war when prices were very low so they have 100% equity.  Also property taxes are exceptionally low in Vietnam, apply only to land and not buildings, and are based on a rather archaic system tied to rice production value which has no bearing in the city.  These factors make it possible for people to put homes up for sale at high prices without much urgency to sell.  I think the same applies to condos.  As I mentioned before, the apartment that we lived in was for sale for the entire two years plus that we lived there and only sold three weeks before we intended to leave anyway.

By the way, I sent my email address to dungnvikh yesterday and am awaiting her data.  I am going to risk saying that I wish we still had Jaitch on this forum.  I am sure he would have made a valuable contribution to this thread.

THIGV wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

I don't know if this will assist you, nor do I have any means of knowing how accurate the monthly data figures are, but anyway, if you are having trouble sleeping, have a look at: www.savills.com.vn/research/savills-pro … index.aspx

I looked at the site which seemed very professional and opened a few of the pdf fact sheets.  They do indicate a slight uptick in prices for the last quarter after an extended period of essentially level prices since 2012.  One recent positive for speculators is that the absorption rate, essentially a ratio of sales to offerings, is up to 21%, meaning that units are moving ever so slightly better but a still little lower than a year ago.   Although prices were about the same as now, the absorption rate low was 5% in 2012.    (This is what happened in Hawaii, a very supply constrained market, in 2008-09 .  Asking prices remained the same, but no one could sell at those prices.)  Overall it looks like movement is improving in what has been a stagnant market for the last 3-4 years but prices have increased only slightly and there is no indication of a runaway market.

One thing that may protect HCMC prices from downward movement is that many if not most people bought or simply occupied their homes immediately after the war when prices were very low so they have 100% equity.  Also property taxes are exceptionally low in Vietnam, apply only to land and not buildings, and are based on a rather archaic system tied to rice production value which has no bearing in the city.  These factors make it possible for people to put homes up for sale at high prices without much urgency to sell.  I think the same applies to condos.  As I mentioned before, the apartment that we lived in was for sale for the entire two years plus that we lived there and only sold three weeks before we intended to leave anyway.

By the way, I sent my email address to dungnvikh yesterday and am awaiting her data.  I am going to risk saying that I wish we still had Jaitch on this forum.  I am sure he would have made a valuable contribution to this thread.

Yes the mosquito certainly had a lot of knowledge about Vietnam. Sadly, he over estimated his knowledge matters appertaining to cheese, though.

everybody has their own games.  all i am saying is choices.  either u buy a condo to have ur own place to decorate, and do whatever u want without regarding to land lords.  if u dont want to buy condo, then put ur money in the bank..   Your game your choice

Excellent way to put it.  Thank you.

vietcong161 wrote:

everybody has their own games.  all i am saying is choices.  either u buy a condo to have ur own place to decorate, and do whatever u want without regarding to land lords.  if u dont want to buy condo, then put ur money in the bank..   Your game your choice

The new law states that the leasehold is valid for 50 years with option to renew for a further 50. It applies to apartments and houses with some restrictions. Foreigners can only own a small percentage of property in an apartment building or area.

It is worth noting that cherry-saigon's profile listed his/her interests as "moneys, moneys"

i think everybody interesting for MONEY MONEY , not you THIGV ? hahaha

hello!
the property in Vietnam is more and more interesting now***

hohuyen wrote:

hello!
the property in Vietnam is more and more interesting now***

I don't know why people like this are not banned. Local people can be very valuable contributors and I will support them as such, but some are obviously fishing for business.  I have some links that clearly indicate that this is not a good time which I will post in a few days.

Sorry if I repeat any same comments herein above.

It is definitely that Housing Law and Land Law permits foreigners  to buy apartment in Vietnam. However, up to now,  just some foreigners can get Ownership Certificate from DONRE. The given reason is that there still has been any circular issued to provide in detail for Land Law and Decree 43.

Even many sellers being Vietnamese do not acknowledge of this fact.  Two party still went to notarization office to notarize the contract and then the seller was penalized due to being late in tax declaration. According to of the law, within 10 days after notarization, the seller is responsible to carry out such procedure. Ownership Certificate  is a document of dossier for tax declaration.

Regards.

PPCute wrote:

Sorry if I repeat any same comments herein above.

It is definitely that Housing Law and Land Law permits foreigners  to buy apartment in Vietnam. However, up to now,  just some foreigners can get Ownership Certificate from DONRE. The given reason is that there still has been any circular issued to provide in detail for Land Law and Decree 43.

Even many sellers being Vietnamese do not acknowledge of this fact.  Two party still went to notarization office to notarize the contract and then the seller was penalized due to being late in tax declaration. According to of the law, within 10 days after notarization, the seller is responsible to carry out such procedure. Ownership Certificate  is a document of dossier for tax declaration.

Regards.

Yep.

But if I may poke my nose in here? Thanks. We bought an apartment several years ago and to be honest it was more trouble than it was worth. We spent a fair bit equipping it and decorating it and it is a nice apartment, but they don't sell well when you want to get rid of them. So to any ex pat wanting to buy property here I would say " Caveat Emptor", remember also that you can only own it for 50 years (with an extension possible if you want to hand it on to your kids).