Puerto Rico's Sovereign Debt Crisis

lgustaf wrote:

People do use,. And they will continue to use no matter how much money the police don't have is spent on "taking down" dealers.

So in your opinion the battle is lost, and drug dealers should be allowed to sell and kill the competition and bystanders in the streets while we do nothing? Do you want them to be taxed and do what when they think the tax is too hig? Do you want them to eliminate the government and let them rule the countries where they live? Is killing your competitors and any in their way of progress a valid business plan?

Criticizing my idea to go after the dealers does not eliminate the problem, give me your solution. I am not perfect, what is your solution?

If I had a solution, I would have expressed it by now.

Indonesia  is executing drug dealers, I think that raises the risk to the point of not being worth it. If drug dealers can kill their competition and bystanders, why can't the country no kill them?
http://thenewsnigeria.com.ng/2016/04/in … g-dealers/

Indonesia is a Muslim country.

Adults in a free society should be allowed to put whatever they want into their own bodies.  When drug users can go down to the local Walgreens and buy what they want, all the drug dealers get put out of business and the violence disappears.  Study prohibition and when it was repealed. 

Furthermore, police budgets would go down, not to mention police power which is ripe for abuse (no-knock raids on the wrong house etc.).

It would also bring addicts out of the shadows.  Because of the current illegality, many users with serious problems don't ask for help until it is too late.

I, like you, have no explicit power to make any changes to the law, but I respectfully disagree that ramping up the drug war will do anything to solve PR's debt crisis.

David

Hi davidtx,
It is just an exchange of ideas we do not have to agree, its a conversation. I expect many to disagree. By all means go for it.

The drug dealer sub-subject is because of corruption of judges, politicians, police, etc. Kids that could be doing good in school or college, are selling drugs or acting as carriers. There are a lot of areas in PR that people avoid, these areas and businesses could flourish with some investments, but if people are afraid to go there, then the people will not invest and as such will not create jobs and remain depressed areas.

By the way, I absolutely agree with people doing with their bodies what they want.

The USA already has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.   Even higher than many totalitarian governments including Russia and China.

The cost of keeping inmates locked up is north of 35K per year. 

It would be cheaper to send them to college. 

I'm all in-favor of sending bad guys who commit violence to the big house for a long time, but for non-violent crimes we need other avenues.

As we all seem to agree, there are no easy answers.

According to some politicians in PR, they are estimating that 29 thousand government employees and close to 19 thousand private sector employees that provide services to the government will likely be cut as part of the reduction in government expenditure once the board is in place. They do realize that a good number of those will end up going to the states for jobs further reducing the potential tax revenue. This is just an estimate, the board has not been selected yet and as such there are no saving targets. What is reality is still unknown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt-mpuR_QHQ

lgustaf wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt-mpuR_QHQ

I almost busted a rib laughing, thanks

Thank you for sharing this.

lgustaf wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt-mpuR_QHQ

Thanks for sharing this...he did a great job breaking it all down. The first commercials against ch.9 bankruptcy have started appearing in N. California and they are very shady and inaccurate.

Olivier explained pretty clear (and in his unique way) the background of this island's main problem.
Hopefully some people on Capitol Hill are listening...

Those people have selective hearing, in my opinion they are there to ensure the debt is payed, no matter the suffering of the people, but that's just me, I could be completely wrong.

ReyP wrote:

I could be completely wrong.

I hope you are but I'm afraid you're not...

Some people ARE listening. Unfortunately, there are bigger fish to fry for those who have the majority opinion.

If PR were Saudi Arabia with a big oil interest to the states, it might be a different story.

The anti bankruptcy ad is airing in several states. I did love how John Oliver unveiled the distortion the ad portrays.

https://www.youtube.com/user/LastWeekTonight

Also. Dominicans flee Puerto Rico’s stunning crisis: Report

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/econom … sis-Report

The PR is on my list of places to frequent in the future. Besides the tourism based economy. it remains a place with potential and many options to explore. Transportation hub.to the DR or USVI via sea. Flights to several other hubs. It is the best thing going in the Caribbean, for now.

It will be difficult to retain the exact same demographics and prosper into solvency.  Having a Florida model for retirement could be one of the thousand tools needed improve the longer term trend.

I would not suggest adopting other things from Florida.

The one problem (not sure how to solve) are people that have a retirement model based on a pension, these people were excepted from Social Security deductions so if their pension fails they are completely out of luck since they do not qualify for Social Security. Those people worry me, since the pension is broke.

I have no pension. So, for me it will be a struggle, but I'm very resourceful and will get the most bang for my buck, just like when I collected pop bottles for gas money to get to college. IMHO, having a retirement model based on a pension is not realistic, except maybe in Scandinavia.

A retirement model is one of many other tools, which would bring additional dollars into the economy. People who have a 401K, public or private pension or social security, collectively would be beneficial. It helps the economy, If people have a retirement and can also afford the cost of living.

Drawing pensioners having social security only, is not a significant advantage. The Dominican Republic, Panama, Costa Rica and a few other places target $1,000 to $2,000 per month population. Longer term, the increase purchase of medical services, food, home care, etc., would provide jobs. The goals is not to see direct taxes from a pension model. It can assist by employing local people and having them pay taxes and make purchases for their living expenses.

These people had a generous pension, of around 75% of their salary, it was guaranteed by the government, so no need for SSI, they did not use a 401k or 403B, the pension was it. Now at 50 or 60, no job and no pension, and no possibility of SS. You are probably younger, they will never save enough now, the only chance they have is the pension, it was the major perk of the job they did all these years.

I thought it wasn't guaranteed.

Only death is guaranteed, the general public in PR are not as investment savvy as the population in the states.

On a separate note, there seem to be some legislation being worked on to address economically distressed areas. There is no mention of it applying to PR or not. Maybe they don't think of PR as an economically distressed area,  We do know that South Carolina would qualify, I wonder what excuse they will use not to apply it to PR which has much greater poverty levels, lost jobs, lost business, on an on an on. There is no comparison in my mind.
But heck, what do I know.

Link: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli … /83554552/

ReyP wrote:

Only death is guaranteed, the general public in PR are not as investment savvy as the population in the states.

Maybe that has to do with the fact that many here have a hard time paying their bills and survive?

Gary wrote:

ReyP wrote:

Only death is guaranteed, the general public in PR are not as investment savvy as the population in the states.

Maybe that has to do with the fact that many here have a hard time paying their bills and survive?

Yup, many, not all do not have 2 pennies to rub together. Hard to invest when you eat meat once a week and they are getting ready to cut your electricity due to being behind on the payments.
Wait! ..... The government has that same problem also, not just the people

ReyP wrote:

These people had a generous pension, of around 75% of their salary, it was guaranteed by the government, so no need for SSI, they did not use a 401k or 403B, the pension was it. Now at 50 or 60, no job and no pension, and no possibility of SS. You are probably younger, they will never save enough now, the only chance they have is the pension, it was the major perk of the job they did all these years.

I agree with your assessment. I was suggestion attracting people with pensions from outside of the PR system. There are a few instances on the mainland, where pension have been under attack. A federal law was past to reduce pensions for one multi-state pension plan.

It is unethical to reduce a contract to provide a pension, when the people responsible for violating the fiscal solvency are not striped of their pension or charge with malfeasance or misfeasance of their office. This includes many states and counties on the mainland.

Term limits should be added to the constitution of every state and to the US constitution.

I used to have a pension with Fidelity that would have given me 3,000 a month for the rest of my life Plus social security, plus my 401K on top of that. One day they came to us and told us that they were eliminating it and they moved 140,000 into my 401K as replacement. How do you compare 3,000 a month for 12 months for 30 years ($1,080,000) to $140,000??

So I understand what they are facing, but in their case it is worse as the pension was their only source of income and they have not been bought out either.

But in reality, if people were using 401K, Rough IRA's, paying Social Security Insurance and other tools, the pension would not be needed, unfortunately most people live month to month and they were except from SSI payments, and were not given a 401K to put money into.either so way out of luck now.

Once the Junta comes in and they start reducing the government, a lot more people are going to be in this boat, specially those that were darn close to retirement and now can not have a job and can not have a pension nor Social Security.

I guess the percent of people living below the poverty line is going to go from 45% to 65%. The junta is also talking about reducing the minimum wage and I can understand the reason, but with all the new taxes and prices going up, it is going to be very hard for those young men to make ends meet, so off to Florida, New York and other places or join the Drug Cartels. They have few choices.

NICE!!!!

I have no pension, and when I officially retire at age 70, my SSi will be about $1200 a month.  I've never been about money, but about lifestyle. All the money in the world means nothing if your quality of life sucks. I have always been unconventional and worked to make tihngs happen. That philosophy has carried me into managing to purchase my dream home in Puerto Rico.

Being poor, as I have been, can be  depressing or a motivator. I hope than Congress can give time to PR and that the Puerto Ricans can see it as an opportionity to think outside the box, assess what PR has  to offer (which is a lot IMHO) and do what it takes to make that happen. Recyling waste and materials into energy could make the island self-sufficient (as an island in the Netherlands has done, and actually makes money from selliing off excess energy ) for example.

lgustaf wrote:

Recyling waste and materials into energy could make the island self-sufficient (as an island in the Netherlands has done, and actually makes money from selling off excess energy ) for example.

Uhmmm, that's 'round the corner from the Netherlands, in Denmark - the island Samso.
But yes, that would be something. It would take a big mentality change though and we would need to find investors.

Not sure how they count the people, but I expect the numbers of people emigrating from PR to increase even more when the Junta starts the big layoff of government employees and start cutting services received from private enterprises that will result in some large layoffs in those private enterprises also.
http://cb.pr/statistics-institute-net-m … cord-high/

I imagine this is going to increase the number of foreclosures and properties in the market, causing other property values to drop even more than they done over the last 5 years. Bad for some and good for a few that can afford to buy.

Governor to address PR and the US, about missing the May 2nd payment and by how much today at 5 PM, you may want to tune in.
http://cb.pr/dealco-opsgdb/

San Juan Mayor Proposes Municipalities Help Commonwealth Government

http://cb.pr/san-juan-mayor-proposes-mu … al-crisis/

I agree with her logic, however, it would be more informative to have specifics of a new paradigm.

A control board to override the elected government. It must be a joke, Congress can not found all the money for no bid contracts during the Iraq war.  When congress shows a moment of sanity, to properly perform their function. The executive branch hides documents requested by House and Senate oversight committees.

Some group watching the effectiveness of restructuring is critical, to avoid repeating past disastrous judgements is necessary.

A board should have some power of consequences to restrict any inefficiency of the restructuring. Maybe withhold highway transportation funding or something else not involving health and education.

I am not sure that the municipalities have sufficient excess capital to help much, and they will expect their funds back sooner or later, I too would like to know more.

I am not clear if you are pro or against the board. I myself I am on the fence about the board, I see that it is hard to trust the current politicians but I also do not like the totalitarian power they will have. I do not trust that they are not there simply to ensure payment and the hell with the people. That scares me, specially since none of them may be Puerto Rican, or have any interest in seeing that the island progresses outside of getting the money from anywhere to pay the vultures.Just like I don't trust the politicians which are Puerto Rican, I do not trust the board which will be made from who knows whom.

Congress specially the republican party does not seem to care much for what happens to PR other than it does not cause them to loose votes and making the bond holds happy. The people did not waste the money, the politicians did, why should the people suffer.

Well it is official we are defaulting by a lot on Monday (about 390 million default on 422 that was due:
García Padilla Declares Moratorium on GDB’s May 2 Payment
http://cb.pr/dealco-opsgdb/

My opinion is aligned with your scepticism of an oversight board. Yes, the republican voice only wishes not to loose an election.  All others which do not think as them, and the indifferent majority goes along for the ride.

I am on the fence also. I do not believe giving the current political system in PR a chance to repeat the financial derailment, is fair to the people.

I do not have a clear and realistic answer. If I did, things would be better in my own backyard.

The fact that the law does not addresses the Jones act, says nothing about fair recalculation of medicare act payments and that does not seem to contain anything that will help PR grow its economy, tells me that this board or junta has anything to do with helping PR.

vagantem wrote:

My opinion is aligned with your scepticism of an oversight board. Yes, the republican voice only wishes not to loose an election.  All others which do not think as them, and the indifferent majority goes along for the ride.

The PR legislation failed because of lack of support from Democrats. Republicans generally side with Obama on this issue.  The Democrats are concerned that allowing PR to restructure will shine too clear a light on the path that the State of Illinois and City of Chicago need to take.  If they would do so, it would have to include restructuring the state and city's insolvent pension funds, which public employees' unions don't want to see happen.

ReyP wrote:

The fact that the law does not addresses the Jones act, says nothing about fair recalculation of medicare act payments and that does not seem to contain anything that will help PR grow its economy, tells me that this board or junta has anything to do with helping PR.

And, lowering the minimum wage!