BOTTLED GAS IN ECUADOR

Speaking of gas bottles,

NEW DELHI (AP) — At least 89 people were killed at a restaurant in central India on Saturday when a cooking gas cylinder exploded and triggered a second blast of mine detonators stored illegally nearby, police said.

Something to consider.

GMC(SW) wrote:

Speaking of gas bottles,

NEW DELHI (AP) — At least 89 people were killed at a restaurant in central India on Saturday when a cooking gas cylinder exploded and triggered a second blast of mine detonators stored illegally nearby, police said.

Something to consider.

OK, then where do I store my mine detonators?

Anywhere other than next do to possible explosives.

GMC(SW) wrote:

There is also a push to switch over to electrical ranges to reduce gas dependency.... If you do intend to switch over to electrical appliances, pay attention to who does the work. Your electrical circuits may need to be changed to support 220 vac etc. If this is not done correctly and safely it can be a costly and dangerous situation. I have done this in our home and can advise or assist anyone needing it.

I have read that Ecuadorians will not give up gas-cooking, apparently in the belief that food cooked with gas tastes better.  Any truth in this latter belief?

I see induction stoves on display at MegaMaxi and elsewhere.  How does induction cooking compare to cooking with an electric stove or with gas?

cccmedia in Quito

To make pasta at my Quito condo, I boil water on one side of a two-coil 110V countertop unit.

Once I put the pasta in, the boiling cuts out and the cooker has to build up heat again.  This slows the cooking process.

Is this primarily a result of cooking at high altitude?

Short of buying a full stove, how can I boil pasta faster?  I am already using the cover-the-pot technique with limited success.

cccmedia in Quito

As a function of altitude and thus lower atmospheric pressure, the boiling point of water is lower in Quito, about 195 degrees Fahrenheit instead of 212 at sea level:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boili … _1344.html

My Mom who liked her coffee scalding always used to complain she couldn't get a hot cup of coffee in Quito.

The only way to get water hotter, and thus cook pasta faster, is in a pressure cooker.

One more reason to live in Guayaquil……hotter coffee…..

There are serious problems with Ecuador's plan to ween off gas and switch to electrical appliances. The infrastructure isn't there. Outside of the cities most communities are only supplied with 110. Within the cities most buildings and houses are not wired for 220. It's a massive undertaking to switch over that will require investment and undoubtedly result in a few electrical fires. I'll be wiring my new house for 220 so as to be ready. It doesn't cost much more to plan ahead, but converting a 110 wired home to 220 is expensive. You may need  a new panel and main breaker, and new branch circuits to your stove, dryer, and water heater. Everything else, all your lights, plugs, etc... stay the same. If your home is like many in Ecuador, your wiring may be cemented in rather than in conduit. If this is the case, you're screwed.

OsageArcher wrote:

As a function of altitude and thus lower atmospheric pressure, the boiling point of water is lower in Quito, about 195 degrees Fahrenheit instead of 212 at sea level:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boili … _1344.html

My Mom who liked her coffee scalding always used to complain she couldn't get a hot cup of coffee in Quito. The only way to get water hotter, and thus cook pasta faster, is in a pressure cooker.

Pressure cookers have always freaked me out, I won't use them, because this can happen:

https://m.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/3 … r_anymore/

GMC(SW) wrote:

The bottled gas used in Ecuador is not of the same quality as found in the U.S....

Due to the quality of the gas, maintenance of items using gas is required.

Are you saying bottles of gas in Ecuador are of lower quality and are more dangerous?

How combustible and dangerous are they?

cccmedia in Quito

jessekimmerling wrote:

Outside of the cities most communities are only supplied with 110. Within the cities most buildings and houses are not wired for 220.

Great post, Jesse.

In or outside the cities, where it's all 110V, don't some of these folks have stoves?

Or is a 110V stove in Ecuador a technical impossibility?

cccmedia in Quito

110 stoves exist, but to get the same heat from 110v you'll be pulling much higher amps. Higher amps require larger wire size, larger circuit breaker, and either a special plug or direct wiring. If your stove has no oven, it may not be as big a problem. If you find a 110v 15 amp stove it will probably be just a little 2 burner, and may also be a little slow to cook, but should use a normal receptacle. A 20 amp stove will look almost like a normal plug, but the hot wire will be turned 90 degrees. You see this on a lot of power tools and often people will take pliers and bend the plug to fit a 15 amp receptacle. 20 amp receptacles will receive both 15 and 20 amp plugs, but 15 amp receptacles only fit 15 amp plugs.

For clarity: 110v, 115v, 120v are all the same thing. Same with 220v and 240v. Voltage fluctuates and is more of a general range than an exact. Different manufacturers describe it slightly differently. One exception, is when 220v is EU style. Then you've got 220v with only one hot wire and your device will not work on American or Ecuadorian systems unless it's rated for both.

Thank you Jesse…….
Another consideration is in Ecuador, there exits voltage spikes which can damage sensitive electronic devices…..
For our refrigerator and split AC units here, we have plug in voltage protectors so we don't fry the sensitive parts…..

AMDG wrote:

Thank you Jesse…….
Another consideration is in Ecuador, there exits voltage spikes which can damage sensitive electronic devices…..
For our refrigerator and split AC units here, we have plug in voltage protectors so we don't fry the sensitive parts…..

That may help save your appliances from voltage spikes, but the more common problem is low voltage. If you take a multi meter and test voltage in your home, you should get between 110v and 120v. If you're dropping more than 5% you are exceeding the NEC (National Electric Code) which is the US rules and recommendations to avoid equipment and property damage. It results from either low voltage coming out of the power company, or too much distance combined with undersized wiring between you and the transformer supplying your neighborhood. If one of your neighbors is a power hog, that will also cause increased voltage drop. I used to live on a boat out at the far end of a marina. In the winter time when everyone was running heaters my voltage would drop to about 90v. It burned up a lot of equipment, because when the voltage drops, your equipment attempts to make up for it by demanding higher amps. Higher amps means more heat in all the wiring... stuff starts melting and shorting out, breakers trip, fuses blow, overloads open and need to be reset.

You could call and complain to the power company, but I doubt that would get you anywhere in Ecuador. You could offer to pay to have a larger service drop (the wires from the power company's transformer to your home). This will make a slight improvement, depending on distance and how undersized the wires were. Or, you can move.

cccmedia,

Personally I see little difference in the two. I guess you could compare flame temperature vs. coil temperature.

In my opinion the best way to cook is with a grill. Some could pose arguments to the contrary. I used to grill year round in Denver and Grand Junction, CO. I guess it all comes down to a matter of personal taste.

cccmedia wrote:

How does induction cooking compare to cooking with an electric stove or with gas?

I have a single induction burner and it is extremely efficient. It heats only the surface of the pan that is sitting on the burner. There is no wasted heat. The mechanism is friction from the rotation of a magnet below the surface. However, not every pan will work. "Induction compatible" cookware must be steel, not aluminum or copper bottomed. If a magnet is not attracted to the bottom of the pot, the burner will not recognize it and it will not work. Learning how to adjust the settings can take a while playing with the device.

I have cooked using both electricity and gas as well. I find gas to be much more responsive and easy to adjust. If you watch professional chefs, I doubt you will find any of them cooking on electric stovetops. I'm not a professional chef (don't even play one on TV ) but I very much prefer cooking with gas.

DorothyPeck wrote:

I have cooked using both electricity and gas as well. I find gas to be much more responsive and easy to adjust. If you watch professional chefs, I doubt you will find any of them cooking on electric stovetops. I'm not a professional chef but I very much prefer cooking with gas.

Is it ease of cooking .. not better taste .. that makes many, including the pros, prefer gas?

cccmedia in Quito

DorothyPeck wrote:

cccmedia wrote:

How does induction cooking compare to cooking with an electric stove or with gas?

I have a single induction burner and it is extremely efficient. It heats only the surface of the pan that is sitting on the burner. There is no wasted heat. The mechanism is friction from the rotation of a magnet below the surface.

Dorothy, thank you for responding. 

Is your single-burner induction unit on a 110v or 220v outlet?  Was a conversion to 220v necessary?

cccmedia in Quito

GMC(SW) wrote:

cccmedia...In my opinion the best way to cook is with a grill.... I guess it all comes down to a matter of personal taste.

Grilled spaghetti?!

cccmedia,

How Combustible and Dangerous is Bottled Gas.

Propane is a hydrocarbon (C3H8) and is sometimes referred to as liquefied petroleum gas, LP-Gas or LPG. Propane is produced from both natural gas processing and crude oil refining. It is nontoxic, colorless and virtually odorless. As with natural gas, an identifying odor can be added so the gas can be readily detected.

Propane has a narrow range of flammability when compared with other petroleum products. In order to ignite, the propane-air mix must contain from 2.2 to 9.6 percent propane vapor. If the mixture contains less than 2.2 percent gas, it is too lean to burn. If it contains more than 9.6 percent, it is too rich to burn.

Propane won't ignite when combined with air unless the source of ignition reaches at least 940 degrees Fahrenheit. In contrast, gasoline will ignite when the source of ignition reaches only 430 to 500 degrees Fahrenheit.

If liquid propane leaks, it doesn't puddle but instead vaporizes and dissipates into the air. Because it is released from a pressured container as a vapor, propane can't be ingested like gasoline or alcohol fuels.

The gas in Ecuador is dirty as a result of the refining process. It contains more contaminants than are normally found in the U.S. This results in more carbon deposits during ignition and combustion.

Propane Liquid and Propane Vapor,
Before propane is used, it exists in one of two forms, liquid or vapor. Both liquid propane and vapor are usable but cannot be used interchangeably. In other words, a propane system designed to use vapor can't utilize propane in its liquid form and vice-versa. Additionally, the characteristics of propane liquid and propane vapor are so different that the primary properties we are concerned with are as different as night and day. With propane liquid, temperature is the primary factor whereas weight is the main concern regarding propane vapor. Think of it this way, water is liquid and steam is water vapor. The same holds true for propane and is explained in detail below.

Propane Liquid
Propane exists in its liquid form at or below its boiling point (-44*F) as well as when it stored under pressure. If the temperature outside is -45*F, propane will be a liquid and you would be able to pour it out of a bucket. But as soon as the temperature rises to -44*F, the propane begins to boil and thus give off vapor. If the temperature outside is colder than -44*F, propane exists as a liquid. It's still propane but it looks a lot like water while at this cold temperature. It's colorless, odorless and tasteless...but who would take a drink of a any liquid that is 45 degrees below zero? Who would stick their finger in a glass of anything that is 45 degrees below zero? Holding a handful of ice can be quite uncomfortable (or painful) after some time but think how painful it would be if that handful of ice was almost 75 degrees colder.

Because propane boils at a temperature that is over 70 degrees lower than the freezing point of water, it has the ability to freeze skin tissue in a very short period of time (severe frostbite). The temperature properties of liquid propane are such that being aware of possible danger when dealing with propane in its liquid state is extremely important.

Propane Vapor
Propane becomes a vapor at temperatures above -44*F. Similar to water when it boils and gives off steam, propane gives off vapor when it boils. One may refer to propane vapor as "flammable steam". However, for the propane vapor to be ignited, there must be the right mix of air and vapor. Propane vapor is heavier than air and will sink to and collect in the lowest point it can find. If propane is vented to the outside air, it will quickly dissipate with the slightest movement of air. If propane is vented into an air tight structure with no air movement, the propane vapor will collect on the floor and rise vertically if more propane is vented into the structure.

This is extremely important to know because if there is a propane leak in a house or building, the propane vapor will seek the lowest possible point where it will collect. Keep in mind that one gallon of propane will produce over 36 cubic feet of vapor and this vapor will settle in the lowest possible place. If the propane vapor level continues to rise, it may ignite if finds a source of ignition. The weight of propane vapor being heavier than that of air is a characteristic of propane gas that needs to be understood by all LP Gas users.

CONTINUED ON NEXT POST.

BOTTLED GAS HAZARDS: CONTINUED.

An explosion hazard as a result of ignition is low, due to the high ignition temperature of 940*F. The main explosion hazard lies in the bottle bursting from over pressure. The pressure wave released would cause significant damage. Then once the gas is released a spark could be all that is needed for ignition.

Low electrical circuit integrity is common here. From time to time you will find a light that will flash off and on, even though the switch is off. This indicates a leakage in the switch contacts, which is very dangerous in an explosive environment. In many circuits the bulb acts as part of the circuit, to light a power switch. If the bulb is removed the switch indicator is not illuminated.

The control / shutoff valves used do not have a pressure release, or (OPD) Over Pressure Release Device. The bottle has no installed release either. The two types of shut off valves I have found, (Blue Metal, or Yellow Plastic) also have no relief device.

The bottles should be tested / rated to with stand over pressure. Many of the bottles you find are heavily used and can be old. I have found that some bottles leak from the attachment point due to damage, or wear and tear. The bottles will a bar code stamped on them indicating weight; 14.8, 15.7 etc. But I can find no test data for the bottle. The brass fill valves can wear and require inspection.

I would highly recommend that during hook up of a bottle, ensure the control valve fits properly and there is no leaking of gas. Turn the valve side to side gently and listen for leaks. Inspect the brass valve if it has large dents on the top around the rim, I would ask for another bottle. It may not seal properly.

What is really unfair is that if you go out and buy a brand new bottle, you will have to trade it for a beat up one when getting a refill. The only way around this is to tote your bottles to a fill station yourself.

There are also several bottles you can get; blue, orange, green. They are all gas but vary in weight. The blue seem to have the highest weights 15.0 and above. You must be careful as some vendors will give (Slip), you a green for a blue bottle. Then the next time you ask for 2 blue bottles, they will only trade you color for color. No blue for a green.

As a rule whenever we leave the house, I disconnect any bottles. Having no way to know what may occur while we are, gone I would rather come home and hook up the gas as needed than to come home and find a hole where the kitchen once was. Also I keep the doors closed to the area where the bottles are stored. Luckily this area is in the laundry area and is open to the outside air, getting plenty of ventilation.

In the U.S. natural gas to the home is common., Propane tanks for the grill, the same way. The difference is the safety features we overlook and take for granted. From Mexico South it is common to find Butane, Propane or even mixes of bottled gas.

I do apologize for the posts lengths, but I thought it important to explain the "Why" and "How", of gas and bottles here. Not just make a broad statement that could be misunderstood. They ease with which the gas guy throws around the bottles, you could think there no danger at all. If there was, he would surely show it, right?

Just remember this phrase, "Familiarity Breeds Contempt".

cccmedia,

I have found that you can cook just about anything, on a grill. At times you may need some creativity to do it. But with the electric prices in the U.S. Every little bit can help.

Senor GMC, thank you for your post…..
Helpful and wise words……..to the extent possible, you can have your tanks outside……we have 3 tanks (concina, secadora, calefon) and all are outside.   It is easy to drill though most walls and the diameter hole to pass the hose is narrow….
I understand that having them outside may not be possible for a few reasons, theft among them……moving them outside is a good option…..and not too long ago, in our urbanization, there was a propane explosion….

And I would I would like to say thank you, and good bye to all my fellow blog posters…
Vaya con Dios to all.

ECUADOR'S SWITCH TO ELECTRIC,

JK, is right on target.

I have not paid much attention while visiting other cities throughout the country, but I will say that the electrical infrastructure in Quito as it is, would not easily support an expanded electrical grid. There has been some work installing high tension connections, in some areas. I was surprised to see that they had even installed maintenance trips along the runs. They look light a hook and loop connection that allows for the isolation of a section, by unhooking the line in an area. This makes it much safer and easier to work on the lines without shutting down an entire electrical grid area.

As Quito grows, they really need to consider using more of the technology available. If you look at the average service pole in the city it closely resembles a rats nest of cable. For some reason they choose to add cable after cable for miles on end, instead of using a backbone, amplifier terminals or relay points. The cable connections we have could be much better, but it all starts with proper installation.

  The following is off topic, but makes a good point.

They recently finished construction of an apartment building down the street from us. As people began to move in, I saw the same old "Bad" habits being used.

There are various ways for a cable to cross an obstruction, a road in this case. Instead of running it under the street  or point to point above the street, they opted to run the cable from a point on a pole across the street and up to the top of the eight story building. This puts the cable at an approximate angle of 60 Degrees. This is unsuitable for several reasons; first it uses a great deal of cable which is exposed to the elements, a cable run that long at that angle cannot be properly supported, and the weight of that length of cable results in 90 degree bends, which damage the cable and produce signal loss.

This has been repeated for each new tenant. Bundling the growing number of cables together, creates even more weight which stresses the cable. This is important because, they do not use compression connectors on the cable. The screw on and push on connectors are not as secure and will eventually fail. Especially when stressed and overloaded.

They then ran the cable diagonal across the building from the roof to each apartment. Exposing even more cable to the elements and creating more bends in the cable. Cable should never be bent in excess of a 3" loop. Smaller bends compress the insulator of the cable and allows for signal loss and interference. There are 90 degree connectors available.

How could it have been done?

Take the main signal line (Backbone) to the building, then create a vertical or horizontal trunk. Attach individual connections as needed. This setup would be protected on the interior of the building. Now that "Fiber Optic" is becoming available, the game changes yet again.

AMDG,

I don't mean to be nosy, are you leaving Ec?

No, I have had enough of the admin censoring and deleting posts…….

Again JK is on target,

I found it interesting that 220 VAC was not common throughout a residence. I have found one application, and that was for water heaters for showers, that heat water at the shower head. The electricians will make up 220 VAC by combining two 110 VAC circuits. This can cause an issue if other considerations are not taken to prevent overloading of your circuits. Your standard lighting circuit uses a 20 amp breaker. This is too small for most 220 VAC applications.

I have also seen a serious "Grounding" problem. Electrical service is normally "Grounded", at the embarkation point, the point where service is connected at the primary service panel. Without a proper "Earth" ground or adequate ground conductor (wire) size problems can occur. The 220 VAC circuits you sometimes find are controlled by a dual blade knife switch. You have to attach the conductors yourself or add the proper plugs for connection. The 220 VAC ones we have had, I rewired because the ground wire used was four gauges to small. This will cause overheating of the wire.   

As stated normal 110 VAC service can fluctuate to 120 VAC, the same with 220 VAC. This is a normal by product of Alternating Current (AC). You will not find a constant 110 VAC signal as the signal changes with the cycles, in this case 110 VAC is a 60 hertz or 60 cycle signal. In our house it ranges from 115 VAC to 119 VAC.

Appliances and electronics are now controlled by microchips and transistors. They are designed to tolerate this fluctuation in voltage. Otherwise things would burn up on a daily basis. While a power strip will protect against a voltage spike, it offers no protection from a low power or "Brown Out" situation. The effect of low power to normal and low again is what is as bad as a spike.

Most electronics do not run on 110 VAC as many think, most power levels are reduced and converted to levels as low as 5 VDC, Direct Current. The transistors etc. cannot take high voltages and are sensitive to heat. 

If anyone is considering a change or has planned to change, Find a reputable Electrician who will evaluate your situation, before simply doubling up circuits. If you change even one thing, it should involve a new breaker and maybe some wire. If he needs none, you should be leery of this unless he can show that you already have what is needed. When it comes to dealing with electricity, you should always er on the side of safety.

Thought: If there is enough interest in "Ecuador's 115 VAC to 220 VAC Conversion", perhaps we should start a new thread?

AMDG,

Gotcha.   

AMDG wrote:

No, I have had enough of the admin censoring and deleting posts…….

Yeah, they seem to do more harm than good most of the time. It's like you're having an interesting conversation between friends, and suddenly someone comes barging in to tell everyone they're off topic, and I understand that forums sometime need moderators to keep things from turning into a flame war, but the moderators need to have a better grasp of sarcasm, subtext, and innuendo. It's like they show up to a little argument swinging a baseball bat.

This thread is about "BOTTLED GAS IN ECUADOR"

Please just understand that we'd like to stay on topic and everything will be fine. Nothing else than that.

This said, if you think it could help, we can create some kind of "Ecuador café / no topic thread" on which you could discuss about anything you want ... and you would never be off topic on this thread.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks

Julien

GMC(SW) wrote:

Thought: If there is enough interest in "Ecuador's 115 VAC to 220 VAC Conversion", perhaps we should start a new thread?

Can't speak for others, but I'd be interested in that thread.

j600rr,

I think it would be useful. If Julien would move the related posts it would be an easy start. If he chooses not to, after a couple of days I will start a thread for it.

You need a better pressure cooker.  Electric pressure cookers don't have the problem of being forgotten on the stove too long, letting pressure build until it blows.  Here is mine -- http://www.mindstormphoto.com/2014/04/0 … made-easy/

For propane, the biggest danger I see is people storing their propane tank right next to the stove.  Our condo has a separate "gas room" about 50 feet from the living space.  Having gas that close to an open flame is a recipe for disaster.

We were in a restaurant up in the Cajas last year, when we heard (and felt) a huge FLUMPB! The chef ran out of the kitchen, yelling for everyone to go outside fast!  Turns out they had changed the propane tank, not connected it properly, which (sitting right next to the industrial stove) exploded.  Fortunately, just a ball of flame that scorched everything, but no shrapnel or injuries...

Living in the poorest part of Ecuador, the switch to 220V has been a huge topic for many. I hope the  "Ecuador's 115 VAC to 220 VAC Conversion" topic will be posted.

When you add something cooler than boiling temperature, and of more than a little mass,  to boiling water, the boiling will stop because the temperature has dropped. This will happen in Guayaquil as well as Quito, just at a higher temperature.

If you have a powerful heat supply, it will quickly resupply the heat necessary to resume boiling. If you have a low-powered heat supply, it will take longer. I think this is your problem. You would get better results with a higher-wattage coil. Just be sure your building wiring can support the higher-power appliance.

If you already use a gas cooker in Ecuador, the government will give you a new electric induction cooker (with oven) virtually free of charge. The way you pay for it is by adding about $5 to your monthly electricity bill (for about 3-5 years). If you move, the extra electricity bill moves with you, so no problem. You can recover some of the cost by selling your defunct gas cooker and gas tank (there is still a demand).
Also, completely free of charge, they will change/adjust your domestic electricity as necessary so as to accept the voltage of an induction cooker.
If anybody tries to sell you an electricity conversion service from 115 VAC to 220 VAC, it's a scam because the government will do it for you free of charge provided you switch from gas to induction cooking.
Hope this helps, Russell

russelleaton wrote:

If anybody tries to sell you an electricity conversion service from 115 VAC to 220 VAC, it's a scam because the government will do it for you free of charge provided you switch from gas to induction cooking.
Hope this helps, Russell
*

I believe it is only free for very poor people, and I also believe only for citizens -- meaning probably almost nobody on this forum.

Regardless, my housekeeper told me today of a friend that made the conversion, because they thought it was the "right thing to do."  Her electric bill jumped from $25/mo to $100/mo as a result. My housekeeper said that she could not afford that, and only uses one tank of propane per month to cook with -- and that even if propane went world market price at $25/can, she would still be way ahead staying with propane...

It is available for anybody who can present a 'cedula' (an ID card), even if you're a millionaire. Any foreigner legally living in Ecuador can obtain an Ecuadorian cedula. The cedula will show your foreign nationality (e.g. USA citizen), but this will not preclude you from being eligible for the government subsidized switch over from gas to induction.
Russell

When you take into account the government subsidy, the cost of electricity for the induction cooker will only be marginally higher that the equivalent gas cooker. When the government subsidy runs out after about 3 years, existing gas subsidies will also be withdrawn, thus pushing up gas prices. So if by then you haven't switched, you'll be stuck with higher priced gas and the subsidies for induction no longer available. Using gas is a real hassle because of the need to manage the gas tanks. I have no financial interest in these issues, just letting you know the situation.
Russell