Pit falls of living in Hungary

Could you just let it go, please? The poster has said that he has some health issues, spelling is obviously his last problem, I would guess. His message comes through though. Please try having some patience.

Land registry in HU is all right. All info is online and could be easily checked. Bought my apt. 3 years ago had no problems registering the sale or with any property formalities for that matter. Lawyer was a funny, small-time swindler by did his job. Looking now to buy another apt and garage, but prices went up significantly. Since it is nearly impossible to make any significant income from renting in BP the prices of trashed apartments are ridiculously high even factoring cheap labor. I am afraid at this point the market is going to stagnate for a few years  and then crash. Not enough rental income , not enough buyers and general desire of young Hungarians to live in the new modern boxes makes it for one dysfunctional RE market. Sad as BP is an architectural treasure unlike anything I have seen.

MOHCTEP wrote:

Land registry in HU is all right. All info is online and could be easily checked......

I would disagree with that.  I think historic house pricing/records should be totally free and open.  Open information leads to efficient markets and correct pricing as any capitalist or game theorist will (should) agree. 

There's no way I know of with the HU system to compare historic prices in same street.  I'd actually call that a deficiency in the system bordering on criminal. 

In the UK, it's very easy to check on specific properties and to see historical house prices.  Just go to www.rightmove.co.uk and check out any random address.

MOHCTEP wrote:

Land registry in HU is all right. All info is online and could be easily checked......

I would disagree with that.  I think historic house pricing/records should be totally free and open.  Open information leads to efficient markets and correct pricing as any capitalist or game theorist will (should) agree. 

There's no way I know of with the HU system to compare historic prices in same street.  I'd actually call that a deficiency in the system bordering on criminal. 

In the UK, it's very easy to check on specific properties and to see historical house prices.  Just go to www.rightmove.co.uk and check out any random address.

True Hungarians don't know how to price anything really.
Back for example in 1989, we started up a import/export business from the US to HU.
Just small time stuff really, had 4 friends pool our money and my husband was in charge of doing all the paperwork, flying back and forth to HU to make sure people in HU were doing what they were suppose to do.
He bent over backwards to do everything proper from typing on an English type writter ( No PC's then) into Hungarian to filling out all custom forms and arranging everything with shippers to get the best prices.
We also were in charge of buying all the goods and products to ship overseas.
My husband spent allot of time finding deals on goods, going to every police auction in Calif. Going into Chinatown in LA and buying in bulk.
We did all the packing for shipment too.
All for nothing in the end.
We bought hundreds of tiny makeup kits for example.We bought them wholesale for $2.75 a box or so.
Sent them to HU.
They were distributed to a few beauty salons in Budapest, displayed in the windows.
My husband freaked out when he noticed how much they were charging, over $15. a box!! Way too pricey to sell or to ever get reorders on the goods.
Had trouble with people taking what they wanted and not paying for it.
Sent a almost brand new beautiful Red T-top Ford Mustang car, sent 4 cars in total.
Had to find a secure place to park the car while my husband ran back to the US.
A friends brother had a safe ( so we thought) garage to store it in.
We even paid the jerk to store it for us.
Husband flew back to take care of the car a month or so later only to find it a wreck!
The bro was renting it out for thrill rides to people and they blew the transmission, stunk up the seats and wore down the tires.
Had to find a HU mechanic back in 89 that could put in a new tranny. Had to take all the parts back to Calif to get it rebuilt and physically take it all back to HU to install in the car. Paid to clean the car up, new tires etc.
We were lucky to break even on that.
Never, never will do business with Hungary again, might be better off just shooting my own foot.

First I can not run text through spell chek not avable on this laptop????I think. So point one Land Regstration Office well I went with Plot No ect. to check out a Plot they provded the Map Outlined the Plot so inspecting the details noticed a doted line runing down both sides of the road to the plot so asking what this was they could not give answear all they stated nem problem. So Lawer set up  the contracts completed the sale and then I applied for a permit for construstruction this was rejected on the grounds that the plot was not on a Uta so asking to explane further, it related to the plot Doted Line on the plan given by the land office, now the sting in the tail is the past owner had a costruction permit granted in 2004 but expired he stated at time of conrtact signing in front of ower lawer nem problem with new building permit, yes we are claming back from the seller.
I have bean looking at Right Move as 433 propertys over hear and I can no afford there charges, the ression being my property is low price and there is a vast amount out there to look at and not meny whanting my Eco Lodge Treyed to do to use godady go to build a web page but to Thick to do this so I will sell one way or other

No problem, my spelling is not always correct and I am just too lazy to check the spell checker.
You may be using one of those insane hard HU laptops, the keys are all over the place.
We have several laptops , one is in HU but we hardly ever use it, too difficult for us being so lazy and all...
My husband speaks and reads perfect HU but learned the computer in English, even he has a hard time with the HU keys.
Good luck with selling your land, I think anything is possible in HU legally if you are willing and able to pay for it. Sad state of affairs with that, corruption does not build much trust.
The problem is most in Hungary think if you are a foreigner you are made out of money.
If that was the case, I doubt HU would be on my list as places to live and retire.
At least we ex pats are self suffiant ( spelling!!)

Yes theythink foreiger have money, I have lernt on thing never show your welth, when away from the city at my place, any one would think I was a homeles pearson with the clothes I wear a Freind works on Tram Driver he is on abought 280.000huf a month abought the same as myself on state pension but by the time I have paid out for life insurance £80.00 gave wife £200.00 to help pay my shear of cost in the appartment food for myself £40.00 and Fags £15,00 can not do with out Private Medcation to help control Prostate Cancer £78.00 a month then putting money to one side for blood test,s MRI Scans hear next one this week at £240.00 every 16 weeks and money for flights back to UK every 16 weeks to Oncolgy I think I am worse of than most in Hungary now all savings nearly gone and trying to sell Lovasbereny I shall have to Drop Price to Rock Bottom to servie and Bad Selling and Gramear Gradad sed once don,t wory lad if you can work out your wages and wright a beging letter thats it

marwood47 wrote:

First I can not run text through spell chek not avable on this laptop????

Most web based forms have an option to check spelling. Right click with your mouse, and if there is an option to turn on spell check, select it. Then select the language (if English (United Kingdom) is not available, you should see an option to add this dictionary). Once you get that enabled, you will see little squiggly red lines under misspelled words.

Not a critique, just trying to be helpful.

marwood47 wrote:

I think. So point one Land Regstration Office well I went with Plot No ect. to check out a Plot they provded the Map Outlined the Plot so inspecting the details noticed a doted line runing down both sides of the road to the plot so asking what this was they could not give answear all they stated nem problem.

You fell into the all too familiar expat trap. That the reply here "no problem", or "nem probléma" in Hungarian, really means "no problem". It does not. Whenever one hears "nem probléma", assume immediately there is a problem. It is a red flag.

One of the most unheard of phrases in Hungarian, from my personal experience, is "nem tudom" (or in any of its various linguistic equivalents). Which means, "I do not know". Everyone here "knows" everything. Everyone has an explanation, a reason, an excuse, or an opinion, which is taken as the same here as "knowing" something.

In Hungary, I fall back to the old adage: "Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see." It is a sad national tragedy. But good advise for the expat.

As for the dotted line -- I have not seen your map, but a dotted line normally indicates your access rights to the nearest road. So that is indeed your "road rights". Basically, do not assume anyone in the land office knows what they are talking about either. There are countless "excuses and reasons" why from many government offices here. It may be difficult to get to the real facts unless you spend a lot of time an energy pressing them, as they may return with excuse after excuse. It is hard, if not impossible, for people here to admit they made a mistake. But if you can not clarify this issue then your property may be essentially worthless** if you can not get a building permit.

** unless you can sell it for someone who wants to use it for agriculture -- which is unlikely.

marwood47 wrote:

So Lawer set up  the contracts completed the sale and then I applied for a permit for construstruction this was rejected on the grounds that the plot was not on a Uta so asking to explane further, it related to the plot Doted Line on the plan given by the land office, now the sting in the tail is the past owner had a costruction permit granted in 2004 but expired he stated at time of conrtact signing in front of ower lawer nem problem with new building permit, yes we are claming back from the seller.

Again, you see the "nem probléma" comment. Which is useless. And I have to say, from experience, there are plenty of incompetent attorneys, and ignorant judges, in Hungary. So you can not count on them much for "justice".

As rgards to Spelling if it affends so much then AI will leave expat.com
Dotted Line on a Plot Map Indercaes a Shared Road that the Land you use to get to a plot is owend by others the Road is part of any Plot traverling down to a plot, owners ether side owne the land you are traverling On and not a offical road This means no utilty trasport can reach each plot owner to remove rubish empty septictank fire amberlance services can responed to a call. So with out public road no building permit can be granted Yes I could by the land witch is used to get to the plot be will not resolve the problem the worst part is I am not allowed to build even a modern bathroom where I can use a proper toilet will not allowed by law to have a proper septic tank as transport can not get to it to empty but I shall build a bathroom with septic tank and if they issue a demerlion order then we take the athorty to court under europen  wrights

marwood47 wrote:

As rgards to Spelling if it affends so much then AI will leave expat.com

Simply trying to help you make your posts more readable so more people can help with your issues. No offense intended.

marwood47 wrote:

Dotted Line on a Plot Map Indercaes a Shared Road that the Land you use to get to a plot is owend by others the Road is part of any Plot traverling down to a plot, owners ether side owne the land you are traverling On and not a offical road This means no utilty trasport can reach each plot owner to remove rubish empty septictank fire amberlance services can responed to a call.

We live not on a Utca, but on a dűlő (basically a "lane" which is not an official street). So if the land office is saying one needs an official Utca road is silly and just wrong. We also have a "dotted" access line to our property. And we live here. So again, this is just to me a bit "odd" that you can not get a building permit.

We also have no garbage collection. We have to take our garbage into the village, or self transport it away. And that is true for everyone on our "dűlő". There even have been new construction on this "dűlő", so rejecting your construction permit based on that I find very suspicious.

Regarding sewage, rather than a septic tank, you can install one of these complete sewage treatment plants, as they are completely legal in Hungary:

http://www.plastictanks.eu/household-se … ent-plants

Again, I am very suspicious as to exactly "why" your building permit was denied, because the reasons apparently from the local government office do not seem to be valid given the (limited) information you have provided.

Ok start with Plot is Zartkert witch is used for farming or grape field witch is under a difrent land law to say in village or town, if rqured I can scan and send the rejection of planing application notice. OK that is over for now the clamr aganst the seller as gon daft to-day and hung himselve he as appointed a valuation agent for a value of the plot But this as 3rd December 2015 when I have total recostructed the Area where the sealer had is buildings ect. there Spent on new costruction materals just under 1,000,000huf and placed on the plot a touring caravan witch is 7m*2.4cm witch is legal and next year if I have funds to turn it in-to A Tiny House on Wheels this cost 680,000huf delivered so add to gether 1,680,000huf app. So this Inspecter as given of 1,300,000huf value as at 3rd December He as not give the value as at March 2015 when I moved on to the plot Yes every part of new work projets photo,s witch are date stamp even ivoices for every new part is avable
so the past owner has hung him self by having this assestment, if you wear to take my investment away from the valuation report then the Plot Value is Zero, he is nor aware every think I done the bullet harden aganst him I was claming back 500,000huf but I told the Lawer to-day go for 750,000huf and the full cost,s. Septank is easy cost tank 78,000huf deliverd add other bits say 110,000huf thats my buget price as to empting it easy punp out in November in runs againts Grape Vien organic growing the whole project Past by The Mangment
So as a suport to my Clame I have information for a Plot same size with same as I have  electricity water ect for sale at 500,000huf

True, I used to be a "fashion freak" but living in Hungary makes it easy to pass wearing good second hand items.
I have  put my nice jewlery way for safe keeping and never carry more cash with me then needed to buy a loaf of bread and bottle of wine, almost got mugged 2 years ago while using crutches on a major Budapest. Blvd. Had to beat off my 2 attackers with my crutch!
Best to look poor or at least working class, all depends on where one is going though, walking is casual and with car use one can dress up a bit more.
In any case, I enjoy dressing in funky items around in small shops or at boot sales, my friend Ann and I have picked up a few pieces here and there at boot sales, fun to dig around and find a treasure. I may be the only over 60 women in Budapest wearing a man's Russian fur hat and mini-skirt in winter time, always loved the odd styles.( No wonder people stare...)
Sorry about your health issues, have you ever considered seeing a specialist in Hungary?
There as to be a few good doctors in country.
That would save on airfare costs. It is hard when one counts on a healthy retirement then gets ill.
We had a couple of minor set back with health in the past 2 years. I had knee surgery in HU, messed me up but good now.Husband had a hernia operation in HU, all went very well with that.
We live on less then we need to in Hungary.
Summer is a free for all most times, the other 9 months we usually don't go wild taking trips or overspending.
Just the way we are, nice to have a" stash "of some sort for an emergency.
You may wish to consider advertising your property in the UK, find another ex-pat to sell to.
Good luck and stay healthy.

Sorry your land issues are such a problem.
I suppose the property was only used as a weekend house or a resting spot for winegrowers in the past.
We looked at a tiny home years ago that had a shared septic tank with another home, no way did I want anything to do with another home owner, so passed on that deal.
I am supposing your wife speaks Hungarian.
If so maybe she can or already has done, research on the area and talked with other home owners to see if they have somehow resolved the same issues with land management.
Hope it works out for the best.

Reading these posts on land registry issues, I can only sympathise. My own land (boundary) dispute is still not resolved after about 18 months.  Our architect noticed the boundary issue (neighbour has 30m2 of our land) and someone put the fence is in the wrong place 40 years ago.   

We measured our land using an official surveyor who stated the land registry entry is correct.  Then, the neighbour hired his own official surveyor who found another boundary disputed area of 10m2 on the neighbours other plot boundary.  However, as far as we know, he must have confirmed our boundary as in the land registry was correct.   There was no way he could do otherwise.

The neighbour complained to the local government who sent yet another official surveyor to check the boundaries. Presumably they also found it correct.   So that's 3 surveyors all in agreement with the land registry.

Now here's the stupidity. 

While the local government sent us a letter telling us they would measure the land and set a time for the neighbour, us (and our lawyer) to "witness" the measuring process, they said they would issue a "ruling" within 30 days.  That was several months ago.    Mrs Fluffy has subsequently found out that the ruling can only be examined or discussed in person, not by phone or by e-mail.  Bizarrely, the "decision" cannot be posted to us.  This is unfathomable since they told us by letter about the process.  We have no idea what is going on now or even if this is correct legally. Mrs Fluffy will have to go there and discuss it directly after making an appointment (and I have to give her power of attorney probably).   It's all very strangely organised. Mrs Fluffy thinks they are searching for ancient land registry entries on paper. 

I've told our lawyer not to mess about any more, just get it straight to the court because it might take years to sort out. In the meantime we cannot rebuild the fence in the right spot which messes up our landscaping and a bunch of other stuff like drainage. The local government could be tying this kind of issue up in knots. We really do not know why it is like this but we suspect it is because of political affiliations.   Or it's indifference. Or they just do nothing because they do not want to upset anyone.  Who really knows what they are doing in their swanky new offices.

I think we will forget the local government, the neighbours ideas and just go for the throat and get a ruling from a judge allowing us to move the fence to the right position.   We think we will eventually be OK because the land registry entries are supposed to be definitive, the surveyors have confirmed the entries as accurate.  They would be pretty moronic to say the land registry entries are wrong.  If they do, we'll sue the previous owners for the value of the land.

If the neighbours had just caved in, then it would have been all solved by now.  I do not know why they are even arguing about it in the face of such overwhelming evidence. 

Stupidly obstinate people.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

......We looked at a tiny home years ago that had a shared septic tank with another home, no way did I want anything to do with another home owner, so passed on that deal....

I agree with that sentiment. 

Shared property is a recipe for disaster in Hungary.  Mrs Fluffy owns a 11th share in a house. With 11 owners, there's no chance of agreeing anything.  The original owner was thinking it was nice to leave it in his will to these 11 people but all he did was mess it up big time.  He should have said it would be sold and the cash distributed between the 11 persons.  Basically it's a useless holding as it cannot be liquidated because a couple of these people have sentimental attachments to a rotting pile of bricks.

Mrs Fluffy's friend lost her share of a Balaton house to some clause in a shared ownership deal where if one of the parties wanted to sell, the other party could offer something insane like 100K Ft for their share and there was no way to refuse that offer.  She probably lost about 100 x that amount. 

Always wholly own and never part share anything with anyone in Hungary.  Caveat emptor!

Yes totall agrement I have a frend hear in bpest whom been is Architect for a long time he belives be involed in Local Goverment as a planing officer or working in Land Restration Office all of them are faeild Architect,s who leav there brains at home

Disrespect from country bumpkins!
My husband said those red necks probably think just because they are born in Hungary that they have more rights then you do.
So many people believe they are entitled just because their great, great grandpappy lived in the area.
Hope it gets resolved for everyone before you wind up spending more on legal fees then it's worth.
You are all scaring the heck out of me thinking of buying again anything in HU.

It,s tru next to me is one of them old informer he gained all his land by being a spy for the polgmaster that way as lots of grape fields, now belive it not one  day he ask for my phone to speak to the wife as my Hungaryen is limted so end of call asking what he whanted he was stating some had told him I had moved my outer fence line, no I had cleaned down the fence line to get rid of weed,s so, what happens with my work at night when I leav he is there checking for the slights infringment ,.Now is the same with new legal clame aganst the past Owner  passing on information what he can, no I can not stop this ass to proving what he is up to. The whole area near to me as a lot of plots with house on but when you look at the land map they are not there no permission to build ????? it was the practice was, not what you now but Who You Now and yes I challeng wey they can have a house on land witch is same as I intended to build they say it was before reglation came in-to force so beat them

marwood47 wrote:

..... The whole area near to me as a lot of plots with house on but when you look at the land map they are not there no permission to build ????? it was the practice was, not what you now but Who You Now and yes I challeng wey they can have a house on land witch is same as I intended to build they say it was before reglation came in-to force so beat them

Same actually on my land.  I have a substantial outbuilding which has been there 30 years.  Anything there longer than 10 years becomes a legal building regardless of whether it had permission or not.  Many bodgers (HU = kontar) are doing their own thing with self building and building all sorts of things without asking anyone. It's all weak government, corruption and nepotism.   I intend to modernise my illegally built outbuilding. I should probably have permission but so long as it's essentially the same as before, I believe I will not have any particular issues with the locals.

There's a whole area here in my village which is full of "holiday houses" but really they are just normal houses and some of them are very substantial "villas". No-one is rushing up there to enforce the rules.  Local government refuses to even improve the roads or provide snow clearing because if they take it on as normal residental area, they have to start building schools and amenities.  So it's languishes and people just do their own thing.  During the winter, everyone has to use 4WD or snow chains.  There are no services up there.

Weirdly the government just built a road nearby to open another area up for development BUT they left about 100m gap between the new road and the road to the holiday house area.  Once again, it seems deliberate to stop that area being incorporated into the village proper.

Yes I no the Road L/Hand side of maim road to Tesco. There is Saterlit System in place to view any Plot what is Happning there !!!!!! so take two things Lovasbereny eco home ??? Earth Bag Dome BIG BUILDING no permit to build again. Jcb turns up digs in-to hill side build a eco home good South Facing great no permit as the stated a new Pincer and on and on it go,s Pártka wear was I to build retrment place planing rejected ok I coverd in past but there things spring up over night. There is a dislike to Brits on plots I was intrested in one there was a track leading up to it witch I assumend 3 meter width wrong the day to signe contract called in to see again he maid it clear going down the length of the Track peging out 2.4 meter he and the wife had a big bust up over his petynes he stated he do,s not whant Foriners next to him but I fell sory for those whom bought a Adobe House the outer wall is on the boundry permision to do work on this wall asking permissin so if you do not get on with next door you could end up loosing the house back to nature sad hear over housing not like UK no building control no building inspectors and the worst is when in UK Lawer checks out with land regstration office for problems hear they are a Law untill them selfs     (spelling again)

fluffy2560 wrote:

While the local government sent us a letter telling us they would measure the land and set a time for the neighbour, us (and our lawyer) to "witness" the measuring process, they said they would issue a "ruling" within 30 days.  That was several months ago.    Mrs Fluffy has subsequently found out that the ruling can only be examined or discussed in person, not by phone or by e-mail.  Bizarrely, the "decision" cannot be posted to us.  This is unfathomable since they told us by letter about the process.  We have no idea what is going on now or even if this is correct legally. Mrs Fluffy will have to go there and discuss it directly after making an appointment (and I have to give her power of attorney probably).   It's all very strangely organised. Mrs Fluffy thinks they are searching for ancient land registry entries on paper.

It is not clear -- did the local government state they have a ruling, but they will only discuss that in person? If this is correct, then that is actually not unusual. With land and mapping issues the local government can not mail you maps or related issues on land use (that is the unique right of the land office). So, yes, in that case you do have to go in person to see their ruling. You (or whomever goes) can ask for a "protocol" to be taken and signed of what is stated at that personal meeting, which can help you in court.

But if the local government has not given a ruling yet, then yes there may be a problem for the reasons (and others) you listed. In that case you can write an official complaint to the land office, the regional overseeing office for local government and to the local government itself. Do this simultaneously. That will freak them all out, they will probably have a "conference call" about your issue, and you may get a response faster.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I think we will forget the local government, the neighbours ideas and just go for the throat and get a ruling from a judge allowing us to move the fence to the right position.   We think we will eventually be OK because the land registry entries are supposed to be definitive, the surveyors have confirmed the entries as accurate.  They would be pretty moronic to say the land registry entries are wrong.  If they do, we'll sue the previous owners for the value of the land.

Hm..... Well, maybe. Ownership is 9/10th of the law, and your neighbor has such possessive "ownership". I am not a lawyer, but if this issue has existed for 40 years the ideology of "squatters" rights (even if this is not defined in Hungarian law) may sway a judge (judges here are an empire to themselves and can and do ignore precedents in other cases). So anything can happen. You may in fact get "justice", but one can necessarily expect it in local court. It is far more complicated than that in some cases. For example, a Judge may say your neighbor has to simply pay you "rent" for the land he has "taken" (enjoy your 50 Forint a week payment for life), or you have to simply ask for a refund from the original land owner for the "lost property" (the value of which may not even cover your legal fees).

fluffy2560 wrote:

If the neighbours had just caved in, then it would have been all solved by now.  I do not know why they are even arguing about it in the face of such overwhelming evidence.

War of attrition. They expect you to cave in first. Overwhelming evidence or facts means little here. Opinion is the kingly ideology. I have never heard such absurd local gossip elsewhere but in Hungary. 

fluffy2560 wrote:

There's a whole area here in my village which is full of "holiday houses" but really they are just normal houses and some of them are very substantial "villas". No-one is rushing up there to enforce the rules.  Local government refuses to even improve the roads or provide snow clearing because if they take it on as normal residental area, they have to start building schools and amenities.  So it's languishes and people just do their own thing.  During the winter, everyone has to use 4WD or snow chains.  There are no services up there.

Weirdly the government just built a road nearby to open another area up for development BUT they left about 100m gap between the new road and the road to the holiday house area.  Once again, it seems deliberate to stop that area being incorporated into the village proper.

For each village there is a land plan. And this defines such things as the "inner" and "outer" village. In the outer village the village does not have to maintain roads or provide garbage collection services. You can go to the local town government or the regional notary office and ask to see this map (they will not send you a copy). I suspect, but may be wrong, that where that road ended was at the inner/outer village boundary. In fact, due to the land plan, it may even be illegal for the village to pave a road outside that boundary unless the village council approves it, and thus uses inner village resident money for this task (seriously -- how popular will they be with the voting village residents to give away their money to non-voting vacation house owners?). Outer village full time residents also pay less in taxes. So there is some fiscal compensation.

We live in an "outer village" region. No services. No garbage. No sewage. No road maintenance. We have water only because those on the road paid to have it brought in privately. Our road was actually paved by those on the street paying for it privately, and thus also no snow removal from the village government (which since the most recent election with a new mayor has been actually pretty useless and incompetent overall -- but that is another story).

fluffy2560 wrote:

No-one is rushing up there to enforce the rules.

The rule in Hungary is that no one will act on even illegal activities unless someone complains or reports the illegal act.

But if you do complain, they do have to act. And they have to either punish the illegal action or write who reported the action why they refuse to act.

So, if you want someone to enforce the rules, and the local government will not (and they probably will not -- for rather obvious reasons), then that "someone" may have to be you.

As to the Law in my case I have reservation wheather I will win   !!!!!! If it ends up in Court the Wife can not be called as a witnes, I am a Brit will the Law be hostle? so evedence for claming that the past owner led my down the wrong road yes but not yes as the wife was doing the translation when I was asking abought any points I was rasing to him the Wife can not be witnes to these qustens, the only thing I have is all phot,s from start in March when I first got the place till year ending in November and all the invoices on payments for costruction materals, each part of reconstuction phot,s month by month now in a folder and corresponding invoice payments . The seller had a a survey carred out 3rd December value 1,300,000hu, I will be honest with you copping with ill health and the cost of kepping going on I could easly give up worst is I can not find soome one to a Land Survier      bab speeling some wear

marwood47 wrote:

If it ends up in Court the Wife can not be called as a witnes

This is not the UK. Your wife can be a witness. Even so, under common law (not relevant in Hungary) your wife can not be called as a witness against her will. But she can in any time volunteer to be a witness.

marwood47 wrote:

I am a Brit will the Law be hostle?

In theory, not. But to be honest, human nature is weird. Have a good attorney an stay in the background. That is my advise.

marwood47 wrote:

The seller had a a survey carred out 3rd December value 1,300,000hu,

Wait... what ?

Do you mean a land survey for the land size, or do you mean a land appraisal?

I have had many properties surveyed and they never cost more than 100,000 HUF. If that was for a land boundary survey, that price is ridiculous.

If you mean a land appraisal, then that is what the land is "worth" according to an appraisal, but that is not the same as "market value". Usually "market value" can be much more than the "official" appraisal.

The Lawear was clear Wife can not be Witness under Hungaryn Law
Land apprasil was for offical appaisal this was as at 3rd December when I had transformed a derlict wilderness in-to My Dram so far, not as at end March a Rubbish Tip there is only myself mybe the last owner has some phot,s before I start work the man in december, valuation as then

Sorry to hear all the hassles everyone is having in HU with land issues.
Not good to be under such stress.
To make you feel a bit better,Hungarians with a touch of power are just as rude to other Hungarians as they are to us "foreigners". Not sure why everyone is always out to get someone here.
At least no one yet has been hung because another wanted their property, this actually did happen  to a friend of ours father back in 56.
Someone coveted his big beautiful flat in the 5th district. Told him to hand it over to him or he would contact his buddies in the gov. This was during the weeks and months of the revolution when anything weird was ok.
He refused to hand over his flat  so this man accused him of WW11 war crimes, had false witnesses etc.
They just took our friends father and hung him!! There was a make shift trail of sorts, all to be "legal".
Our friend still lives in that flat, the family stubornly refused to ever move out or sell it.
Can't really blame them, they paid for it in blood.
Never really sure if he was part of a group of young soldiers who took part in a war crime or not, I know his widow tried to collect for wrongful death when the gov. changed over, she lost her case but it could of been becuase there was no prove either way. sad tale anyways...

The wife is awear of thes outrages acts agants others, Hear in the room wear I am, is a life size painting of her mother in 1940 witch was commisiond by hear family the family was arstricts (spelling wrong) so at that time married to a captin in Hungaryen Army so when wife was born they the parents new of problems couid happen so the wief,s birth certifcate hear family name as one letter missing witch later in life was a good thing when after the war the comminist was out to punish them of some states, so father orderd when germans invaded to fight aganst the russens in stelengrd he was captured in prisioned till 1953 returning back to Budapest within weeks the police arrived deported them to the country side, enterment camp charged her dad with tressen aganst his owen country allowed back in 1958 but wear only allowed 18m2 apparment so the wief,s education was paid for by hear uncle in absent of her dad both parents had work at that time ship building mum book kepping dad as accountant there rest is history

klsallee wrote:

It is not clear -- did the local government state they have a ruling, but they will only discuss that in person? If this is correct, then that is actually not unusual. ...

Actually we simply do not know what they are doing or what their ruling is, or even if there is one or what it is they are waiting for. 

No-one knows and they will not even discuss it by phone to describe at what stage they are in this mysterious process.  Not even our lawyer can tell us what the procedure is, why we are waiting or what is going on. He's definitely not in cahoots with them.  I think they are just racked with indecision and no real definitive paperwork.

In the Land Laws, there's a clause on adverse possession but it's so vaguely written, it's hardly worth reading as nothing can really be found there.   

Our lawyer says tactics are not to discuss ownership (land registry is "definitive") but just talk about the fence being in the wrong place. 

The Land Registry entries are usually considered trustworthy otherwise the whole land system in HU would be in serious danger of collapse.

Yes, Hungarian families have so many bizzare and sad stories.
I know my husband's birth father, his mom's first husband was called into the police station at the end of WW11. They demanded he change the spelling of their last name.
It was considered to be too upper class for the new system.
Some people throughout history all over Europe bought names once they made it big.
My FIl told them he refused to change the spelling and he would prove the family never bought the name but were deserving of it.
He went all over Hungary, searched every church record, old documents etc.
He proved they had the name going back 1,000 years or so.
We got to keep the "fancy" spelling. He had dog tags and documents that proved no own every bought it. I am not an expert on these things but it seems someone was knighted or a "blue blood" in the past. My husband found it sort of odd since growing up in the old communist days, his father never spoke of it, suppose he didn't want the family to find themselves in a re education camp.
He had grown up in a wealthy family in big house with servants, couldn't really mentally handle the new system so he and my MIL divorced when my husband was 18 months old.
My husband's step dad was a POW in the Gulag for 6 years after the end of WW11.
When he finally contacted his wife, she was remarried with more kids, thought he was long dead.
Really weird stories here.

Sounds allot like what happened to my husbands step-dad, was in the HU Army when his unit was captured, sent to Russia for 6 years, had to work as slave labor in some sort of mine.He was a physically strong man to live through that, he saw so many of his countrymen pass away from ill health in the Gulag.
As it was he had to go to hospital for over one year when he was sent free.

klsallee wrote:

We live in an "outer village" region. No services. No garbage. No sewage. No road maintenance. We have water only because those on the road paid to have it brought in privately. Our road was actually paved by those on the street paying for it privately, and thus also no snow removal from the village government (which since the most recent election with a new mayor has been actually pretty useless and incompetent overall -- but that is another story).

That's about the size of it up there on the hill.    There are some paved roads.   Even on the edge of the streets where we live, people have no water. In fact, we chose our plot based upon it actually having all services.   We could have obtained gas and electricity and drainage on an empty plot at some considerable cost but strangely water seems to be the least easy to obtain and very costly.

This is the area: nagyszénászug budakeszi

14 years or so back we looked at a 3/4 finished home with nice land, lots of cherry trees near the Danube. There were many homes in the area but still very private and the house was build solid, in brick.
Had a super size strong basement in an A frame home.
Could get to the water in 2 mins, nice for boating and fishing.
The house was a steal too. around $5,000 US.
The owner couldn't finish the home because his wife took ill and he needed the cash.
We decided to pass on it since we had not planned on actually living in HU full time and it would of been years before we went to HU to stay for good.
There was something off I remember about the building plans to finish the house, that was another turn off for us at the time.

marwood47 wrote:

Yes I no the Road L/Hand side of maim road to Tesco...

Sounds like you know here. Yes, the road to nowhere is diagonally opposite McDonalds.   On the far end of the road, it just stops and doesn't connect to the holiday house area.  The only way to get there is to turn right at the petrol station as you head to the village centre. Except of course when the bridge is being repaired.

That's where the road has a kink in it to the traffic lights.  It's a dumb design, there should be a roundabout there as those lights are really slow. Then again, 5 cars in front is a major traffic jam here.   

Actually that road towards Budaors from Budakeszi is atrocious.  They built a path to the airport but no-one uses it because who wants to go just to the airport? People  I suspect they only built it for the "Village Day". They should have built it properly as a cycle path all the way to Budaors.  It's diabolically dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians.   

Ok, enough of the local whinging....

Besides the 3/4th built home we almost bought in HU years back, we looked at all sorts or country properties. Some were basically just land and a shack but super cheap. Some from $500. to under $2,000.
We decided not to buy any of them and never really looked back on it.
We also turned down buying on Maui for only $10,000 a lot in the 1980's, now that was dumb of us!
We have never really felt safe investing in Hungary even with the low prices.
A friend suggested buying flats back in 1989 in Budapest for cheap. My husband then and at times even now does not trust the system enough to invest much in HU.
Guess having his family loose everything in HU will take generations to forget and forgive.
Even with just our little 50sq.meter flat in Budapest we always expect it to be taken away or torn down for any reason.
We had planned on remodeling the flat but as we often just come and go to HU we put it off for so long that now we do not think it is worth the trouble and cost to fix it up.
Better to just cut our losses and be glad of it.
Sort of the way perhaps many older people feel about owning things, time is not enough to enjoy all the hard work of fixing it up, no one to leave it to.
Our son is a HU citizen but would rather live in expensive Japan then ever even visit HU again.
He plans on moving to Japan within a short couple of years time, he and his wife are putting off having children until they can raise them in Japan and not in the US.
May wind up selling in Budapest and moving into a closet in Japan or a tent on the beach in Hawaii.

Yes it.s my mane road to Lovasbereny and Partka using the M7 or going up Road 1 then accros to Etec the scencie route, it,s abought time all of this route was upgraded and through the Viallge traffic is bad at times and when at far end Juction with Road 1. The road from Tesco traffic lights is bad for car drivers with the mentalty of sume drivers as regards to cyclists and pedestrian.s yes not safe at all allong this road section and Wye can not build a track through as EH Funding Grant be given. Last winter what a sight when that Servear Frost sweept through őn the hill side just out side village, many times times at the Wild Life Park going to just unwind for a Time the summer I will take the Childrens Trane it looks fantastic all so the sights around there are very good how ever one I missing as gon the road after Tesco abought 4 km. in the road dip I all ways enjoyed the entertanment of the selling points of the "Village Bycyclists" sadly missing att lest saving my "eye sight"

fluffy2560 wrote:

Ok, enough of the local whinging....

Why? Maybe what expats need to know is the non-PC reality that bubbles to the surface during `whinging`.

Some roads even in small towns in Hungary are horrible or not even there.
In-laws built in Erd back in the 1950's. They were one of the first homes built there, all fields around them when they started building their future retirement home.
Had to walk on dirt roads from the train station coming into Erd from Budapest every weekend to do a bit of work on their property, their hobby.
Last time I was in Erd, there still was no paved road in many neighborhoods in Erd.
My MIL's road was all gravel, sometimes a truck would come in and fill in the many pot holes with more gravel but that was about it.
Homes were and are not cheap in Erd and still the city has not put in roads.
Just a dust storm whenever a car speeds down the road.
Hard  at times to drive on the snowy roads there to get to a main road where it is mostly paved, even then you must watch out for the pot holes everywhere.
Some houses in Erd are rather nice, I wonder though why anyone would build there and not have a proper paved road put in, the city does collect taxes but the place looks like a bomb hit it.
Maybe it's just me but I would never invest in a big expensive home only to have a dusty dirty dangerous road in front of the house, just makes everything look so cheap.
Not sure if the new community pool in Erd has ever opened up yet either.
They built and nice new sports area with a new pool but it has been sitting empty for years without ever opening to the public, just so lame.

marwood47 wrote:

....Last winter what a sight when that severe frost swept through on the hillside just outside the village. Many times times at the Wild Life Park going to just unwind for a time the summer I will take the Childrens Train. It looks fantastic all so the sights around there are very good....

Yes, that was an amazing sight last winter.  The road up to Janoshegy  was completely blocked by trees. I couldn't get up there easily on my bike.   They've cleared all the trees now so they will not fall over and block the road.

It's quite interesting around Budakeszi.  There are various walks possible without overdoing it. 

We do a "circuit" sometimes.  An easy one is leave the car at say, Szepjuhaszne, take the Children's Railway up to the top at Szchenyihegy, then either:

1) walk  across the top of the hill to Normafa/Janoshegy (Erszebet tower is free to go up) and take the chair lift down, catching Bus 222 or 22 back to Szepjuhasne to collect the car;

OR

2) Walk from Children's Railway to the Cog Wheel Train and go down to Janos Korhaz (Hospital), then catch Bus 222 or 22 back (bus stop near Syrian Embassy) to Szepjuhasne to collect the car;

OR

3) Walk down from Janoshegy (Erszebet tower)  back to Szepjuhasne to collect the car.

Other variations include parking at the Childrens' Railway terminal at Solymar and using tram 60 to do the loop (it passes Janos Korhaz).   It's not necessary to have actually have a car to do these loops as everything can be reached on public transport and apart from the Childrens' Railway, it's all on the Budapest public transport ticket system.