Proof of pension- certify by consulate or apostille?

For the Visa 9:I as a rentista you may want to look here at the web page of the Cancillería of Ecuador:

http://www.cancilleria.gob.ec/visa-9-i- … -exterior/

It pretty clearly states it must be done by an Ecuadorian consulate but I will let others give you their definitive experiences.

It looks to me to be acceptable either way- it says apostille or legalized by consulate

Repeating some of the experiences posted here over time -

US Social Security letter of income must be apostilled by the US Dept of State, as well as the FBI report. Those are both federal organizations and must be apostilled by a federal agency, the DOS.

Documents which originate in the 50 states can be apostilled by the state government offices.

There have been various answers to the question of needing the approval of Ecuador consulates in the US for these apostilled documents before proceeding on to Ecuador to apply for permanent residency. Most posters here did indeed go the consulate route, specifically I remember this was done by members here living in Chicago, Phoenix, Minneapolis, Texas, and Miami. There are nearby Ecuadoran consulates in these areas.

In 2013 I believe, the Ecuador government closed the San Francisco consulate, thereby leaving nearly all the American interior/coastal north and west without consulate access, and directing residents of those areas to the consulate in LA. Something like 14 states are now under the auspices of the Ecuador consulate in Los Angeles, which is thousands of miles from many of those residents. Including me.

It's a problem.

With sensitive documents like federally apostilled paperwork, you don't just want to throw that stuff in the mail to LA and hope for the best. To me that's crazy. Plus the FBI report is only valid for Ecuador visa application purposes for 6 months from the date of issue. The clock starts ticking on that one from the day it is issued. You gotta get going.

We have seen posts here this year from people who were working with immigration attorneys in Ecuador who were informed by those attorneys that the consulate pre-inspection and approval of documents was not necessary. But I think that a visa applicant in Ecuador who is not using the services of an attorney might find trouble in the system without the pre-approval.

Usually once our Expat-blog member arrives in Ecuador to complete the process, they stop posting here. We almost never hear what happened after that. So I dunno.....

The Social Security document must be apostilled in the state where you were living when you retired or by the US State Department. There was also a time when Ecuador required the document to be certified by a consulate. Late in 2015, Ecuador cancelled that requirement because they discovered they were in violation of the Hague Treaty of 1961 which  states that once a document has been apostilled, no further certification can be required.

Rockysroad wrote:

The Social Security document must be apostilled in the state where you were living when you retired or by the US State Department. There was also a time when Ecuador required the document to be certified by a consulate. Late in 2015, Ecuador cancelled that requirement because they discovered they were in violation of the Hague Treaty of 1961 which  states that once a document has been apostilled, no further certification can be required.

I would disagree that "The Social Security document must be apostilled in the state where you were living" as the state[s] have no authority to apostille federal documents. They don't do it because they can't. Cannot. On my state website it explicitly says that state offices have no authority to apostille US federal documents. Again, the required FBI backround check is issued by the federal authority of the FBI, and US Social Security is also a federal agency. Documents from those federal organizations can only be apostilled by another federal agency, the US Department of State.

That is not correct, I have had clients Social Security documents apostilled in State for 3 years. The US Government has no authority over what state can apostille.

From the state of Washington :

Our office does not notarize or authenticate Federal Documents

Our office does not notarize or authenticate Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Clearances

https://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/apostilles … lines.aspx

I heard back from the consulate in Los Angeles this morning. Here's what they say:

For the pension certificate, it will have to be both, first apostilled and then ¨protocolized¨ by the Consulate of Ecuador, for this you may send via mail the following documents:

1. Color copy of the passport
2. Original of the Social Security Pension (Apostilled)
3. A letter stating your marital status and requesting the protocolization of the document
4. Pre paid return Envelope to return the Protocolization and apostilled document.


It seems like there is a slightly different answer from each person you ask. I think I'll ask the embassy in DC.  Just to be on the safe side, I think I'll go for both the apostille and the protocolized. Since I have until September, there should be plenty of time. I 'm hoping not to have to go to LA. My wife and I each have enough social security to meet the demands for both of us, so maybe I can try one letter by registered mail, and if that gets lost, make the trip with the other.

Johnplov, what was your method of communication with the LA consulate? Email, phone, post? How long did it take them to answer back?

Are you using an attorney in Ecuador or going DIY?

I emailed them yesterday, got a reply this morning. Not bad considering yesterday was Sunday. I sent an enail to the DC consulate today, just to see if I get a different response. I bought Dom's residency visa ebook, and am trying it on my own. I can always use an attorney later if that fails.

The official list of requirements says that an apostille OR legalization by the consulate is required for the proof of pension letters, the Ecuador consulate in LA says both are required, and the Embassy in DC says both, but gives a link to the Hague Agreement that clearly says just the apostille is sufficient. I think that officially, it's just the apostille required, but Ecuador isn't doing a great job of  communicating this to their agencies.
I plan on getting both- there's no point being right if the clerk won't accept it.
I'm going to try DIY, and I want as much documentation as I can get.
John

Just a bit South from gardener1, the State of Oregon...

How do I authenticate documents issued by federal agencies?

​Documents issued under the seal of a federal agency can be authenticated by the U.S. Department of State Authentications Office. The final step is to obtain the seal of the foreign embassy or consulate in the United States. Usually, foreign embassies or consulates in the United States can only authenticate the seal of the U.S. Department of State. Some foreign embassies and consulates maintain sample seals of state authorities. The Oregon Secretary of State cannot authenticate documents under federal authority.​

http://sos.oregon.gov/business/Pages/au … s-faq.aspx

I do disagree with the "...final step is to obtain the seal of the foreign embassy..." I agree with the explanation regarding the Hague Convention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille_Convention

In addition the way this is written is confusing (most things in Oregon are confusing), as it doesn't state what apostilled documents need to go to the embassy, and implies all apostilled documents need to go. None of my documents went to the embassy for any sort of action. Brought the apostilled documents to Ecuador and 54 days later, have my visa.

From New Mexico...

Apostille Information

An apostille is attached to a notarized original document or a certified recorded instrument.  For documents that are notarized, the apostille verifies that the person who notarized the document was appointed to a notary public commission in New Mexico at the time of the notarization.  For certified recorded instruments issued by government agencies, the apostille verifies that the person who certified the document was an appointed or elected official in New Mexico at the time of the certification.

From Nebraska...

Apostilles and Authentications are certifications of a state notary's signature or county official's signature on a document. An apostille is a form of certification set by countries belonging to the Hague Convention. An authentication is a form of certification used by all other countries not in the Hague Convention.

These documents must be issued by Nebraska officials, otherwise, the Secretary of State's office can not authenticate them.

http://www.sos.state.nm.us/Business_Ser … rview.aspx

I believe gardener1 spot on with his answer. I picked these three examples since they the three states that I needed to go to the Secretary of State for my apostilles, and to anecdotally show that a Secretary of State cannot apostille a federal document. It would be akin to a state court overturning a supreme court decision. Whoops, I forgot Missouri, but you can google that if anyone wants to see they they only apostille documents generated in the state. 

John, It has to be excepted and stamped in an Ecuadorian Embassy.  A US apostille is not sufficient however it is needed before taking it to the Embassy. It will also have to be translated. Sorry but that has been the law for over a year now.

I do not have a pension or SS, but I do have enough money to live comfortably in Ecuador for a long long time.

What are my options for obtaining a visa?

I do not have a pension or SS, but I do have enough money to live comfortably in Ecuador for a long long time.

What are my options for obtaining a visa?

Put 25K into a CD or buy property worth 25K or more. Then you can get an investors visa.

Not really!! A apostille from the US govt can be attained also by submitting to the same entity required in a state. The secretary of state of the US. Look online for the address. They do not do individual states. They are done by the secretary of state in the state.

Cuenca boy wrote:

Put 25K into a CD or buy property worth 25K or more. Then you can get an investors visa.

Yes Cuenca boy, you are correct, but, to the new poster, you will still need to get your documents apostilled, by the state issuing them for the initial visa. I'm here on an "investor visa", 9-II. Have been for over 2 years now (going the CD route).

Birth Certificate
Marriage Certificate
State Police Report (which I used), or FBI report... not going down that rabbit hole
Diploma... if you have one, Get it certified by the University and apostilled in the state.

The reason I mention the Diploma thing (which I will get to), is that using a $25K CD, it needs to be...

   1) made for at least a year (longer if you really think you want to be here)
   2) has to "renewed" with the bank, the immigration office and the central bank.

That #2 thing is the sticking point. A process which should involve nothing more that going to the bank, renewing the CD and taking the new one to Banco Central for a form that would then be returned to Immigration, taking no more than 3-4 hours, becomes a 14-day experience (1st year) and a 17-day experience (2nd year) in "rock fetching"

Now, the Diploma thing... if you have a BS from a "recognized university", you can use that for a 9-V visa. It takes longer, because the diploma has to be submitted to the government for certification... (you know, a government employee looking on a list of approved schools), which can take 6-weeks to 2-months. You will be issued a certificate (via the internet) that the diploma is okey dokey. Then the visa process starts. I would think that you would need at least a 12-X, 180-day visa to go this route. It will also cost some money for the 12-X and then the 9-V, but if this is your dream country (as it is mine), then damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead Upside... there is no renewal stuff needed, not to mention, you get your CD back and can spend that 25K anyway you want

For a list of recognized universities, see...

http://www.educacionsuperior.gob.ec/wp- … C-2015.pdf

For instance mine is line 782 in the list. For this route, I would recommend one of the better immigration attorneys here... not because it's "hard", but I found, just having someone to bitch to (other than a government employee, which is a very bad idea) was worth every penny.

John.  I just got my pensioners visa and cedula within 8 weeks of application.  You will  Need us st dept apostilled     they also took my Ecuadorian Consulate approved letter. I used Chicago, closest to me in IN.    Don't take any chance here be safe.   Good luck.  You don't need expensive lawyer.  Ken

The apostille requirements may vary depending on which Ecuador office is chosen for submitting the application.

I would suggest contacting an attorney to ask for the latest compliance news on this. 

For Quito and the coast, attorney Sebastian Cordero... email: scordero(at)gcabogados.com

-- cccmedia in Quito

cccmedia wrote:

The apostille requirements may vary depending on which Ecuador office is chosen for submitting the application.

I would suggest contacting an attorney to ask for the latest compliance news on this. 

For Quito and the coast, attorney Sebastian Cordero... email: scordero(at)gcabogados.com

-- cccmedia in Quito

Again, a word of reason.

I appreciate the info. The website you sent for the colleges is not in English.

Also, are you saying that the 12-X visa will allow me to get my 25k back?

Thanks,

Dante

@DanteNXS

This may not answer your question completely, but you should be aware of the 5% tax for taking your money out of Ecuador, recently discussed here:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 24#3068793

DanteNXS wrote:

I appreciate the info. The website you sent for the colleges is not in English.

Also, are you saying that the 12-X visa will allow me to get my 25k back?

Thanks,

Dante

The 12-X is a Tourist (non-immigrant) visa, but gives you 180 days as opposed to the 90 days the T-3 stamp you get at the airport upon arrival.

The $25K would be tied to a 9-II (immigrant) visa. The diploma would result in a 9-V the link I included was to a PDF listing of schools that have been approved and should not really need any translation. The listing of schools approved in the list for the US begins on line 594.

http://www.educacionsuperior.gob.ec/wp- … C-2015.pdf

Dante, you need to do some serious research on this before your move. I am not trying to be a "wise-ass", but not knowing the visa types available (considering the whole www thing) tells me that you have not dug deep to get information on your own. It reminds me of a lady I communicated with years ago that was asking about Ecuador. She wanted to know if they had Catholic churchs to go to.

Find as many posts as you can on these forums written by cccmedia. 95% of the information he posts I agree with... 99% of his posts are spot on (nobody get's a 100% ). Also search for posts made by gardener1. He also has good information in his posts.

DanteNXS wrote:

I appreciate the info. The website you sent for the colleges is not in English.

Well, Ecuador is a Spanish-speaking country.

In any case the college or university name appears in the language of the country in which it is located.  So you can search for that, or do just a bit of translation (the US is 'Estados Unidos').  Or as rsymington said, start at line 594 for the US...

You need the apostille and the stamp from consulate.  I laid over in Atlanta for a night so I could get the consulate stamp on my way down as I was no where near one.

Thanks to everyone for yor input.
I'm planning on getting the consular approval, just to be safe, even though it's very inconvenient.
Portland Rose, I'd considered the layover in Atlanta also, because we'd like to see the aquarium. I looked up the address of the consulate on google maps, and it looks like it's a long way from the airport. Did you have trouble getting there?
Once there, was it a quick process to get the approval?
I'd considered a trip to the consulate in LA, it's only a couple of hours to fly from Portland, and cheap fares are available. The consulate isn't near the airport though, it's in Beverly Hills. Not a cheap place to spend the night.

I just ordered an apostilled copy of my marriage certificate from Washington State.
It took about 5 minutes by phone, and they will print it tomorrow, then send it to another offixe for the apostille, and mail it to me in about a week. Pretty civilized; I wish the whole process would be that simple. I won't have to drive from Portland to Olympia. I still need to drive down to Salem to get birth certificates apostilled, but that's only 45 minutes from home.
John

Johnplov, what kind of visa are you planning to apply for?

I still haven't figured out the process of having the Social Security Letter of Income apostilled. If you go that route, please share.

I'm applying for the rentista 9-1 pension visa. The social security letter needs to be apostilled by the state department in DC, same as the FBI background check. If you send it yourself, it's $8 per document.
John

It has always been my understanding that for the apostilling of the Social Security Letter of Income, that document must go directly from the SSA to the Department of State for authentication; internally transferred. That preserves the integrity of of the document through departmental processes.

Do you have other first hand information about this chain of events?

I have not done the apostilles yet, so I don't have firsthand knowledge, just what I've gleaned from the internet. Dom says get the letter, then get it apostilled, the social security admin doesn't  mention apostilles at all, and the state department says send your documents, or bring them in. They don't specifically mention the proof of pension letter, but if you can send the criminal background check, requiring chain of custody for the proof of income wouldn't make a lot of sense. On the other hand, this is the goverment we're talking abbout, so you xould be right.
Supposedly, it takes about a week to get the letter, which I just ordered yesterday. I plan on sending it right away, and I'll let you know what happens.
John

Your pension document or Social Security benefit letter must be apostilled, the SS letter by the US State Department and the pension document in the state where it was created. There was a time that the apostilled document had to be certified by an Ecuadorian consulate, but Ecuador discovered they were in violation of the Hague Treaty by requiring an additional certification so that requirement went away in 2015.

Where do we get this letter.  From the state you live in or from DC?
Ron

You can download the SS benefit letter from the Social Security website or get one from the nearest SS office. Depending on where you live, the Sec of State in your state may appostille it. If not your have to send it to the US State Department along with a completed form and a check for $10

The information that is being posted Is current as of 08 February, 2016.

We arrived in Ecuador on 04 February in Cuenca. On 05 February, we met with Jodi Mansfield of VISA ANGELS (visaangels@gmail.com) to review our paperwork for the pensioner visa. Jodi is in CUENCA so, to my knowledge, if you chose to work with her, you would have to apply for your visa in Cuenca.

WHAT WE LEARNED:
The FBI reports had been Apostille by the Department of State (Washington DC). Everything OK.

The remaining documents and requirements (including local background checks and my VA pension that was sent to me from the REGIONAL OFFICE in St. Pete, and his SS statement that was generated by the local SS office) were ALL, yes ALL, Apostille by the State of Florida (where we live) in Tallahassee Florida, through the DIVISION OF CORPORATIONS, APOSTILLE DEPARTMENT.

Everything would have been PERFECT, but we made the mistake of contacting the Ecuadorian Consulate in Miami. BIG MISTAKE. We were told that we had to have our "income statements" (VA pension & SS Statement) "protocolized" by the consulate. NOT TRUE!!!

According the Haag Convention (which USA is part of), it was ILLEGAL for them to have charged us an EXTRA $40 (total $80) to "protocolize" my VA pension and his SS Statement that were both Apostille by the State of Florida. In essence, once they put their "seal" on them it rendered the documents INVALID. So, we will have to go back to FL to get these documents re-done.

Do yourself a favor, before booking a plane ticket to Ecuador to apply for your visa, contact VISA ANGELS to make sure you have the Facts. DO NOT RELY ON BLOG INFORMATION or someone's opinion.. It is a FREE service and you will get FACTUAL information based  your particular needs.

This post applies to information from the USA. If you are from another country, contact Jodi to see if there are any other requirements.

Unfortunately you do have to have it apostilled and "Legalized" stamped in and Ecuadorian Embassy. This requirement has been in effect for over 2 years now. You can go to MMRREE.gob.EC for the rules.

The step to have the document legalized by a consulate was cancelled in August of 2015

Tell that to the visa office here!