Veiled Faces No More? WHAAAAAT?

lead them? where? hell?

lol...NO... u think that ways??
going step by step further instead of ignoring some steps to reach the top, where a small stumble might take u further down...

this these days is called moving ahead quickly... i still remember my elders used to tell me to go slow on things which i never understood that time...

I have a strong feeling that we neither created the rules nor allowed to change them as well. They were already in existence when we arrived and we knew them in advance and always had a choice about where we live and we all made that choice and came here. The bottom line in here is how to respect each other and obey for the rules that has been applied, instead of complaining and cribbing about them day in and day out, which can only make our lives more negative and more and more miserable.

uvnpsaradhi wrote:

instead of complaining and cribbing about them day in and day out, which can only make our lives more negative and more and more miserable.

You don't seem to get it.  Complaining makes some people happy! 

Wake up expats! Saudi Arabia does NOT mandate any face cover whatsoever

MadMaz wrote:

because when saudi implements it lifts the ban, every islamic country shall follow the same

Regardless to the credibility of the first statement, I'm not aware that any Muslim country other than KSA mandates full face cover, even head scarfs are optional in most except in Iran, and the're not really that strict about it.

Am I missing somthing?

RUH wrote:

Wake up expats! Saudi Arabia does NOT mandate any face cover whatsoever

Everyone probably knows that.

slyshooter wrote:

It is quite better than the other nations.

Certainly!!

Whiners always whine.

Macdin wrote:

Who really cares?  It is the same old topic: will they cover, will they not? will they drive, will they not? The expatriates are here because of one reason (mainly): to make money and go home.  Let the Saudis take care of their s---

well Macdine, again i gree with u.

To force people to conform to a way of life, their daily work, and thereby deprive them of their own free choices amounts to human trafficking and exploitation

hmmm.. Now this intelligent discussion of covering or not, driving or not, has now become on which country is best! well For arguments sake, No country is utopia. And every country has its own share of problems, which well they have to work out. Saudi has its own set of problems, things I am sure most of us know about and others which only few of us do.

On females covering up, I personally think that the full face veil, well thats a personal choice of the women.
Women driving- well IMHO guess the "shabbab" are not ready to see them on the road yet. The concept of equality of genders and things like that are not yet in the vogue here. Unless that happens, I guess its safer for the women not to drive.

RedGoblin wrote:

The concept of equality of genders and things like that are not yet in the vogue here. Unless that happens, I guess its safer for the women not to drive.

And shall we be so complacent about racial inequality here as we are about gender inequality?

My point is that I knew what I was getting into when I agreed to come here and I've been a 'good citizen' and don't complain much-- but that doesn't mean I have to like it  

As for the racial inequality, it came as a big shock--it's something not generally mentioned when one reads online information about the Kingdom.

musicman wrote:

To force people to conform to a way of life, their daily work, and thereby deprive them of their own free choices amounts to human trafficking and exploitation

I love how things are taken to the extreme. Human trafficking?? Really?

Once you take the choice to come to saudi, you are given a set governmental rules. That includes every single rule. Either to make you close your shop at prayer times or to obide by driving regulations. So are you saying that if the rules state that you cant go through a red light then you are a victim of human trafficking and exploitation?

Its not racism per say, since from what I have noticed here in the kingdom, the locals themselves dont discriminate based on color.

Its the expat community that gets the brunt. there is a tier system  which exists. And that sucks. and this is some of the biggest companies in the country! Some multi national ones too have started following similar lines.

From veiled faces, women driving, to exploitation.... This is one topic going off on all tangents!

RedGoblin wrote:

hmmm.. Now this intelligent discussion of covering or not, driving or not, has now become on which country is best! well For arguments sake, No country is utopia. And every country has its own share of problems, which well they have to work out. Saudi has its own set of problems, things I am sure most of us know about and others which only few of us do.

On females covering up, I personally think that the full face veil, well thats a personal choice of the women.
Women driving- well IMHO guess the "shabbab" are not ready to see them on the road yet. The concept of equality of genders and things like that are not yet in the vogue here. Unless that happens, I guess its safer for the women not to drive.

Yah, you're right. I am a Saudi women and I am very surprised
to notice that women in my entourage, more and more want to cover their face now (no cloves, but face). And even when they travel, they keep the "hijab" to cover their hair. So, It is a very difficult decision, because they want the freedom (I don't know what kind of freedom, every one has a different version) but to keep our traditions (who are not compatible). Of course, I do not speak about majority, it is only my circle of friends...
Just to say, we can not please everyone!

RedGoblin wrote:

From veiled faces, women driving, to exploitation.... This is one topic going off on all tangents!

You are right, this discussion is surfing in all directions, so please concentrate on the initial discussion

Yud wrote:

RedGoblin wrote:

From veiled faces, women driving, to exploitation.... This is one topic going off on all tangents!

You are right, this discussion is surfing in all directions, so please concentrate on the initial discussion

Actually, it's all connected:  traditions, culture and laws in KSA.

Ah ok... Carry on then Sorry for my bad understanding...
Wish you all a great day ahead

@ alliecat : I was just saying
*hands in the air* * surrendered look in face*

RedGoblin wrote:

Its not racism per say, since from what I have noticed here in the kingdom, the locals themselves dont discriminate based on color.

Its the expat community that gets the brunt. there is a tier system  which exists. And that sucks. and this is some of the biggest companies in the country! Some multi national ones too have started following similar lines.

You can always see discrimination between
expats to expats - western - east europe - far east etc
locals to expats - especially from officials/ police officers
locals to locals - several tribes - religious sects - shi'ites etc..

You can always see discrimination between
expats to expats - western - east europe - far east etc
locals to expats - especially from officials/ police officers
locals to locals - several tribes - religious sects - shi'ites etc..

have to agree there.. expats to expats too.. but then like I had mentioned earlier, No utopia, so can expect things like this.

Racism is there all over the world.  Only that it is more obvious in Middle East.  And this is one of the few regions where locals sometimes bear the brunt.

This might not be expected of in a multi cultural society but then from other than company outings, when do the expat communities come together? mixing between the different communities happen rarely. There are other factors too that make mixing a bit difficult. Westerners stick to compounds, saudis stick to themselves, and the rest of the crowd stick among themselves! the only mixing I have seen is in a mosque.

Well, you can't get any more multicultural than England.  Personally I felt it more there than any where else I traveled.

Human trafficking does not just point a finger at an abusive employer in Saudi. It involves all of those folks who contribute in some form or other in duping people to come and work here under false pretenses that the streets are paved with oil.... It actually begins in the home state of the expat where the recruiting agents, middle men, governmental officials, and other concerned people ake a quick buck or even a "killing" (esp with the ladies) along the way. Its a vicious and never ending cycle from beginning to end. The whole saga, certainly amounts to human trafficking in my book.

^^ agreed that it is a vicious cycle. I guess the only way that there is some way around this is to make sure that proper visas are issued, the salary and benefits are properly documented. And tell people who we know are coming to be careful of all these things. The most exploited are the financially backward segments, trained and untrained laborers, housemaids, drivers, etc. For them, well just educating them about all of this is what we can do. Unfortunate but then the poorer segments are the ones who usually end up paying the price of exploitation.

life is difficult every where even in your own country.. true for everybody.

Yud wrote:

Ah ok... Carry on then Sorry for my bad understanding...
Wish you all a great day ahead

I like Yud