Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H)

"Ok, so it is going to be the 3 tiered program as first reported....

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/694105"

I was told yesterday by a very reliable agent to be cautious about these rumors.

There are many questions if they do this (which would be more than triple the FD 500,000 for a single applicant (RM150,000) three years ago) for half the visa period. Also no discussion of the salary/pension requirements, administration fees, etc.

I still don't think they will hit the sweet spot.

Almost all the other regional programs are vastly more affordable.

O dear, dear,  dear!

Far from hearing that the long awaited  announcement will bring cheers and relief to the expectant and existing MM2H community, it is incredulous that the cost of the deposit has actually INCREASED from the draconian RM1Million imposed inexplicably by  the previous administration!

Even RM500,000 for the Silver status trumps the earlier provision; and as for RM2 Million for the Gold Tier and RM5 Million for the Platinum, these are surely no noes! There will be no rush to apply! Forecasts of the Billions the government hopes to earn is far from likely. As a previous contributor said, it will not hit the sweet spot.

I mean, who was consulted in arriving at this decision? Did they consult the interested community? Or did they only talk to Agents, Entreprenuers, Business people, politicians and others with periferal interest only?

Yes, temptation about PR status, bringing in a wider family circle etc are noted, but are there really people out there who will tie up RM2 Million or RM5 Million for the privilege?

Just look at the Sarawak formula and it will be instantly clear why it has immediately become a huge success and a big money spinner for the administration over there.

And other neighbouring countries too.

I speak quite simply as someone experienced in Management - and a long term loyal MM2H person. No political agenda. I only want Malaysia to succeed!

It may be just as well that this revised federal offering is to be on trial for a year. Change is still

possible.

There are many as yet unanswered questions anyway:

Renewals?

Fees?

Eventual refunds?

Starting date?

Status of an application during this 'trial' period?

Can only Agents handle applications?

Why only applications from people with investment income?

Why no monthly income requirement?

Etc. Etc

May be there will ne a rethink if things do not go as planned?

We wait with baited breath.

It’s not over yet - I suppose.

LoL really disappointed, still same. nothing has changed

Indonesia Second home is waaaaay Cheaper, easier and you can include all family

balibusinessconsulting.com/services/second-home-visa/

Let's wait for more clarification, more details

Just been looking at the Philippines program, SRRV Residency, very straight foward and based on the government website, very welcoming

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/categ … s-refuted/

An economist and the consultants’ association involved have played down concerns that the relaxation of requirements for the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme will lead to a “dumping” of foreigners in the country.

smh

Is there a link to the article,  please?

Dumping IN or dumping OUT???

Oops!

Yes, just saw the link!

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/categ … inance-pr/

An international realtors association has expressed concern over recent changes to the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme, which might affect “the overall mix of participants and the programme’s overall appeal”.

Firdaus Musa, president of the International Real Estate Federation (Fiabci) Malaysia, said the association welcomed the lower age of eligibility for the MM2H programme.

@Cobolin

“Not many people have RM5 million in cash to put into Malaysia. Other countries’ PR conditions require that they (foreigners) put in US$1 million to US$5 million, or buy properties to be eligible for PR or citizenship.

This guy is really crazy !!! i think he live in other planet, same apply for the people who are managing this MM2H 

Philippines SSRV  Residence | LIFETIME | $20k "Deposit"     LINK

Thailand Elite Visa  |20 years | $50k  "1 Time Payment"     LINK

Indonesia Second Home | 10 years Visa |   $130k "Deposit"     LINK

Cambodia M2H  | 10 Year  Visa  | $100k  Investment in real estate  LINK

Spain  Residence  Non Lucrativa  | 60K  Proof of funds   LINK

Ok, sounds like the official complete rules are about to drop...

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/703093

Thank you VWC. This is very informative!

@DZINVEST  I suspect Malaysia doesn't want ALL people to immigrate.

@immersed i agree with you

Saudi Arabia already opened the country for tourists and investors with long term visas too

UAE they are giving the citizenship by investment, etc etc. Oil is not forever and Palm oil too.

Look at Singapore how they built their economy, just by attracting foreign capitals ... 

Malaysian officials they don't even understand themselves, every year changing rules, they give you the visa, than they reject your entry like what happened during the covid. but yes of course your money not rejected still in the Bank FD 

As an investor, this is a complete absurdity, they must be serious, or directly shutdown the program so at least we know their real intentions

Dear Friends,  Sorry to say that I seem to have missed earlier posts :-(

Would anyone kindly provide a link that could update me on how MM2H for retired works as I am interested to participate by acquiring a second home in Penang.

Many thank and kind regards,

@DZINVEST  "Just by attracting foreign capital"? Just how do you think they did that? Lee and his son were probably the two most honest, least corrupt men worldwide! Duh!

@zanaja

Hi,

I note that you have been a chat group member since 2017 but that you are NOT as yet an MM2 resident. You are now a retiree.

OK.

A BRIEF starting point may be useful for you; then you can look for more information simply by Googling 'MM2H'.

Therefore, a la the new scheme announced by the Malaysian government a few week ago, the BASIC tier is the SILVER tier. Renewable after five years. You need to pay RM500,000 up front. Equal to about US$106,000 today.

60 days residence per year required. Medical clearence required, etc.

(The higher ones are the Gold, and the highest tier is the Platinum. They cost much more because they give you a longer stay and more benefits).

As yet, it is unclear if a minimum monthly income figure is required.

So, are you interested?

If you are, we can look further.

Thanks indeed.  2017 relates to my membership of Expat forum but I have only recently joined The Malaysia forum.

I am very interested to buy a second home in Malaysia (probably Penang) and am planning a trip June-July time to check out what is available.

It would be great if I could buy a (preferably new) serviced apartment or one with a maid's room.

Yes; I am retired and my only regular income will be my small pension but I will have some cash after a house sale goes through.

I did search for info on MM2H and it did seem to be rather straightforward but I am sure there will be catches......

Grateful for any advice/suggestions.

@zanaja

Hey, we may be neighbors one day....

Ok, so I have my mm2h and have been traveling to Malaysia the last two years to look at properties while visiting my inlaws.  I happen to love Penang ever since I spent a month there during covid to finish up my visa paperwork.  My wife's family is in the south, Johor Bahru.  I tried to sell my wife and her family on Penang last December when we stayed there for a week or two and yeah they liked it but during the last week of our stay, Johor Bahru did shine enough that I would consider there too.

Ok, back to Penang.  To be honest, yes, I found some lovely seaside condos with unobstructed water views.  Here is the reality though:  supply is way greater than demand.  The smart move for you and I would be to honestly just rent there.  Why pay so much when you can leave your cash at home (in my case, USA) earn great interest that you just use to pay for that rent in Penang?  You don't need to worry about any of the home owner crap.

Another reason why I hesitated to buy was just the unknowns there, or the non existence of disclosure information/docs about the properties.  Here in the US, sellers have to disclose a lot about the property.  There, it is you either buy it or not.  That part scares me.  Sure, you may be able to get some info about a condo complex like the financial stats but how would you know if the foundation is sound or not?  Is a new condo complex going to go up and block your view?  Yes, prices are perhaps decent enough to buy but I am still thinking renting is the way to go.  Something major happens, what is the worst thing that can happen to you?  You just walk and lose some rent.  Big deal.

If that does not deter you from wanting to buy, ok here is what I found.  The more quieter and remote areas are north, up in Batu Ferringhi for example.  I love the area, but it is a tad remote due to the one lane each way there.  I befriended a Youtuber who is an agent there and I was planning to use him if I bought something.  He drove me around to look at places.  In his opinion, nobody really wants the remote area condos.  He said more people want the condos that are near all the action and have all of the amenities either on the grounds itself or within walking distance.  When we stayed in Johor Bahru in condos that are selling like hot cakes due to proximity to the train station that will link Malaysia with Singapore I have to admit that having amenities on the grounds is nice and convenient.  Hence, my hesitation on buying just yet.

We plan to go back again maybe year end to relook at places in both Penang and JB.  Hopefully, by then I wlll be fully retired but my company is paying me well to stay on. 

Good luck!!!!

I'll look forward to coffee in KL, Penang or elsewhere.....

Thanks indeed for this very useful info that has given me cause to consider renting as against buying.  In fact, if I think about it logically, I would not need to buy or even rent because, if I don't stay more than 90 days in a year, I would not need a visa if I understand.  Could perhaps find hotel, short-term rent or AirBnB I suppose........  What did you do/where did you stay when you first went out?  As you say, avoid the hassle of owning........

Grateful for your comments 

@VWC

I'll look forward to coffee in KL, Penang or elsewhere.....

Thanks indeed for this very useful info that has given me cause to consider renting as against buying.  In fact, if I think about it logically, I would not need to buy or even rent because, if I don't stay more than 90 days in a year, I would not need a visa if I understand.  Could perhaps find hotel, short-term rent or AirBnB I suppose........  What did you do/where did you stay when you first went out?  As you say, avoid the hassle of owning........

Grateful for your comments

@zanaja

Yes, for that month I was there, I Airbnb'd in a nice condo in Tanjung Tokong.  It was recommended by my MM2H agents.  The HSBC was practically next door and the medial clinic to get covid tests done was nearby too.

Now, Penang supposedly banned Airbnb but I guess there are certain properties that are exempt or maybe grandfathered in for Airbnb.  For example, we stayed in the Gurney area at a nice spacious apartment that was nice and older and it was Airbnb-able.

Yeah, if you don't plan on staying longer than 90 days at a spell, no need for the MM2H.  I wanted it since it was cheaper under the old rules and I could see me staying for over 3 months easily at a time.  I don't want to risk or deal with passport hopping to say Singapore or Thailand.

@VWC

Makes sense not to go to the bother of buying if no need.  I am assuming of course that with a European passport, I would not need a visa fort up to 90 days.

In any event, I need to get out to Penang and KL to do a recce on the ground to check out what's available for short-term stay or rental or to buy.  You mentioned your MM2H agent - would you recommend? 

I seem to recall that for MM2H, the minimum spend on property is Im. Ringit but I may be way out of date as I note the discussion on a new scheme................

BTW, Could you recommend a place to stay in Penang for 3-4 weeks and/or a place in KL for a week  or so.  Of course, I don't need flashy or night clubs etc; just clean and air-conditioned with basic facilities locally - supermarket, laundry. hawker centre and such

Most grateful for your comments.

@vernonsen

Sorry; hit the wrong button.

Thanks indeed.  2017 relates to my membership of Expat forum but I have only recently joined The Malaysia forum.

I am very interested to buy a second home in Malaysia (probably Penang) and am planning a trip June-July time to check out what is available.

It would be great if I could buy a (preferably new) serviced apartment or one with a maid's room.

Yes; I am retired and my only regular income will be my small pension but I will have some cash after a house sale goes through.

I did search for info on MM2H and it did seem to be rather straightforward but I am sure there will be catches......

Notes from other forum members and my vision to stay maybe only up to 90 days a year caused me to think whether i would be best advised to either take short stays up to00 days per year  (non MM2H).  Would that be an option?

Grateful for any advice/suggestions.

@VWC
Makes sense not to go to the bother of buying if no need.  I am assuming of course that with a European passport, I would not need a visa fort up to 90 days.

Yes, essentially like everyone else I believe.

In any event, I need to get out to Penang and KL to do a recce on the ground to check out what's available for short-term stay or rental or to buy.  You mentioned your MM2H agent - would you recommend? 

Yes, Alter Domus is my MM2H agent and I highly, highly recommend them.  They are literally the first agent of MM2H - their license number is #1.  They are in Penang and they just moved to a larger office to my understanding, so that should tell you not only did they survive through the pandemic fine, they are thriving. I would still compare pricing just to be safe but I honestly believe they are about average on the costs.  To me, it was worth whatever they charged me since they managed to complete my MM2H visa during the end of the pandemic.  Most other agents probably closed shop.   Talk to T.G. the owner and tell him the San Francisco guy sent you.  Here is their website:  https://www.penangmyhome.com/about-us

I seem to recall that for MM2H, the minimum spend on property is Im. Ringit but I may be way out of date as I note the discussion on a new scheme................

Yes, that was the case but under the new rules not sure if still that or different amounts by location/state.

BTW, Could you recommend a place to stay in Penang for 3-4 weeks and/or a place in KL for a week  or so.  Of course, I don't need flashy or night clubs etc; just clean and air-conditioned with basic facilities locally - supermarket, laundry. hawker centre and such

There are still plenty of places able to offer Airbnb.  I myself like a nicer area, so I stayed in the Gurney area last December.  There are the 2 malls nearby and a lot of eateries around.  I am sure you can find something reasonable in Airbnb esp since that long of a stay.  In fact, what I do is I usually email the host to see if he/she can give me a better rate since I am staying so long.  Believe me, they may take you up on it since a lot of supply out there....

Most grateful for your comments.

Good luck and have fun!!!!-@zanaja

I think its good I leave a general comment here. Anyone interested in the program is best served by NOT buying anything for a while, not until youve been living in the country and have really learned Where What How. Rent and go along, get situated, travel the whole country, talk to lots of people. Dont waste a cent on property until you are firm and settled. After all, after a year or two you may decide the country isnt for you and then leaving is easy.

VWC, where are you now? Ive been back in Los Angeles for a while taking care of my aged parents. I think you were in SF?

    I think its good I leave a general comment here. Anyone interested in the program is best served by NOT buying anything for a while, not until youve been living in the country and have really learned Where What How. Rent and go along, get situated, travel the whole country, talk to lots of people. Dont waste a cent on property until you are firm and settled. After all, after a year or two you may decide the country isnt for you and then leaving is easy.VWC, where are you now? Ive been back in Los Angeles for a while taking care of my aged parents. I think you were in SF?        -@cvco

Yes, currently living in the peninsula but plan to move back to SF home next year.

If immigration goes ahead with plans to increase tourist visa from 3 months to 6 months, i wonder if people would drop plans for MM2H. A person could split time and maybe 6 months is enough for that. It would be for me, in fact id love it.

@cvco Got links for any articles about this proposed increase to 6 months? I've- never heard about it before.

Cobolin,

https://www.imi.gov.my/index.php/en/pen … tion-plan/

In the article that first accompanied this, the govt believed that allowing people to stay longer meant they would spend more money, exactly the complaint that expats have had for decades, "Why wont you recognize we expats spend a lot so why not let us stay?"

However, only 6 weeks ago at the Immigration counter in Penang, the clerk knew nothing about the plan. Strange. So I dont know its current status but interesting anyway, yes? A crack in the wall....

Speaking for myself, if I were allowed to stay 6 months at a time i'd ditch all dreams of MM2H. What I might try is to have a malay friend buy a low-cost apartment which Id pay for and give as a gift in exchange for staying there some months per year and keep a motorbike there, too. All done!

@cvco It does seem that elements of the system are shifting, but it must be noted that the proposed extension to six months validity is for those holding visas, not for tourist passes. I don't need a visa, I get a tourist pass. The countries that need to apply for a visa are listed at the helpful link you gave.

I agree that it would be great to have a tourist pass for six months, but I can't see them doing that because it would make MM2H pretty superfluous for many foreigners.

Cobolin,

There will always be people who want the long term program because they sold their houses in their home countries to meet the rules of MM2H and have nothing to go back to (a danger in itself). Because I see such poor value in MM2H and highly question the ability to get the money back out again, I will likely never be willing to go into it. So, if the govt wants the average expats money, and they do, they will have to do something else to make the journey attractive and that answer is a longer pass. I see no reason to limit the time to 3 months, why NOT 6 months or even 12 months? How is the country hurt by that? In any case, the original good of MM2H was contaminated by a single man from the UK who, after getting his visa early on, petitioned the govt to increase restrictions "to keep the riff raff out" and that led the govt to only wanting to attract rich people. The average expat had the door shut in his face. Rich people, then, didnt care about the rules, happily paid and that who MM2H is really for.

But I cant whine or complain about anything. Malaysia has always wanted to attract big money fast, not grow slowly over time, so the little guy isnt expected to be catered to now or in the future. Filling the country with guys in tshirts and shorts spending mainly for roti canai in the morning isnt their aim and thats the way it is. Im only saying that if an average person has the goal of living in more than one place during the year Malaysia may not be the place for it. For others with lots of money who want to be planted in one spot all the time, thats a different story.

I understand your comments and i am  indeed  considering MM2H when it comes out

But what are the dangers you see in getting your money back out

i akso tbink a 6 month tourist visa is more fair as that is what we give malaysian citizens when they stay in the UK why should we be treated differently

MM2H is now dead. Agents are not having licenses renewed and program is basically suspended.

Source. Expatkl mag.

Doctors: Only authorized clinics can conduct the exam (check with embassy/consulate).

Procedure: Physical exam, blood tests, urine test, and often chest X-ray.

Time: 3-4 hours.

Cost: Varies (embassy fee + test fees).

My Experience: No personal details, but resources online can help (specify country).

RichPop,

About getting your money back out, its not automatic that a person can transfer money out because Malaysia is a currency-controlled country. Any bank will always say, "yes, its your money" but that doesnt mean its yours to send out. It means its yours to use IN the country. Any bank will also always say you can transfer up to rm40,000 per transfer on the banks own authority but if you try to do that the transfer will be halted pending approval from Bank Negara, the govt central bank. Then you will be met with forms to explain the reasons for the transfer and the central bank will have to agree there is a good reason or they will not approve the transfer.

Not understanding this years back, I initiated a business transfer to the US and it was declined. Think about the problem here. You are honest and transparent, your transfer is completely legit and you are blocked. What then do you use as another reason when you try again? Now the govt has a huge reason to think youre a criminal. I mean, they will ask, "Wait, I thought you said last week it was a business purchase. Now its not? Whats really going on here?" Now your money is frozen. Now what do you do, hire lawyers to try to negotiate with the govt? How do you think that will go?

Why would they do all this? Because Malaysia is Hotel California, you can check in but you cant check out.  All they have to do is accuse you of sending money out to buy illegal drugs and then not only are you blocked but now you become "a person of interest." Though I eventually sorted out my problems, it taught me to never have in the country any money I wasnt going to actually use there. Im not even sure I would do MM2H if I had letters signed by the Prime Minister and the head of Bank Negara that my money was mine and its free to transfer anytime I am otherwise free to do so. Oh, im just waiting for it, "Well, he isnt the Prime Minister now....."

In Malaysia, I believe nothing and trust nobody. I can honestly say nothing ever happened to make be think otherwise. Can you still have a nice life here? Of course. Just be very careful how you deal.

It sounds like you've had quite the challenging experience navigating Malaysia's currency controls and banking regulations. Your cautionary tale serves as a stark reminder of the complexities expatriates may face when managing finances in countries with stringent currency controls.

Given your ordeal, what proactive steps would you advise others to take to mitigate the risks associated with transferring funds out of Malaysia?

Road Tax,

Lets put this another way because my story isnt important. Its just a patch in the big blanket. The important thing is that expats have no rights. It doesnt matter if you marry, do MM2H, have the best job in the country, you'll never have the rights of a citizen (which isnt saying much anyway).

In 1999, before I came to Malaysia, I went to see some govt laison at the embassy in Los Angeles with a list of questions. Among them, tell me more about the govts ability to nationalize a persons assets. While he confirmed that the govt could seize your assets if they are needed for govt purposes, the part that bothered me was that there was no rule that said the govt had to compensate you for that as a govt would in US, for example. This caused me to take an ultra-conservative, probably excessive, view that I would never invest more in the country than I could afford to lose to the country (apart from business or market risk). Im not rich enough that govt takings, and therefore "donations" to the country wouldnt go unnoticed in my ledgers. In fact, it could be devastating. And Im not even a citizen, just some guy out there with no rights.

We expats are going to think our efforts and investments plant us in the country and therefore afford some stature and safety. I know expats who thought that MM2H investments ruled out the govts ability to kick us out but later learned it wasnt true, like barring returns to Malaysia during the pandemic (though citizens did get to return). Such expats in those cases never thought Plan B's were needed and thats the real point of why I wrote about this in the first place and the ongoing need to be careful and not assume rights or what someone might call proper treatment. Dont make any plan in which there is reliance on the govt to save you. You are on your own.

But being on your own doesnt mean isolation. Ive said 1000 times in this forum to come to Malaysia and dive into the life, not simply make an investment and pray youre not pounced upon. You have to network, to find people to help you keep moving and when youre in trouble. I did it by opening a business in which, one by one, I was meeting everyone in the country. Of course I would never know 35 million people but I was on that path. I knew people in govt, in police, in agencies, in larger businesses than my own; i got invited to a lot of weddings and functions and even an invitation to join the Malaysian philharmonic. This is the path of protection, to integrate yourself into the whole life, not simply buy a condo and hang out with other expats at night over beers. In Malaysia, everything and everyone is connected. The fellow in the lowly village you are friends with and have helped many times, well, his brother is high up in Immigration. You didnt know that but learned when you told your friend your immigration troubles. Thats how it goes. The kindness you give comes back when you least expect it.

So, the answer to your question of mitigation of problems like transfers comes out of your associations and connections. Maybe in the end you have to pay someone to streamline a method but you got it done. Malaysia doesnt like to portray itself as a "who you know" country but it is so plant yourself everywhere and cultivate relationships.

Malaysia.....its always in some degree or version of financial distress and I figure that the country never wants to part with money it got from the outside. It works to keep it and there isnt, for example, a certain brand of bank that its better to keep your money in and who will transfer it straight out when you like. If there is, i dont know it. So, with the high deposit requirements for MM2H, there is no attraction for me -- unless maybe I planned to die in the country and had no heirs.

    MM2H is now dead. Agents are not having licenses renewed and program is basically suspended.
Source. Expatkl mag.
   

    -@Nemodot

Why?

Latest guidelines for the three tier Peninsular MM2H programme:

https://www.motac.gov.my/en/media/relea … -mm2h-2024

A hefty FD is needed plus mandatory purchase of a residential property, with various minimum values depending upon tier (and State), that you cannot sell for ten years.

@Cobolin  Yup, so glad I got my MM2H pre-Covid.  Even though I didn't have to buy, I wanted to so I am in escrow now.  I even managed to get a home loan from HSBC, when the other banks only gave half decent loan offers.