Absolutely Anything Else

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

$250,000 to get outta town?
If I were stuck there I suppose I'd have to learn the language and change my way of dressing and acting. cause I couldn't afford the $500,000 for 2 people to leave.
I know some people say why on earth would anyone move over to that place to begin with but then again, my relations think we are weird to live in Hungary.
How many times have I heard the phrase, "come home" over the years.
Of course we were also guilty of telling my sister to,"come home" when she lived in the UK.
How on earth could anyone sign up to be a mercenary at any price?
....
My step-father was was a 2 time US POW was a huge drinker.
For several years my mother was able to control his drinking and made him get a job so he had no time to dwell in the past or drink.
God knows how she put up with him at all.
Nice guy but mentally gone,too much war baggage in his life.
My mother always had a soft spot for strays...

Obviously people in conflict zones cannot "go home".  They are already there.   

I think the $250K was aimed at country diplomats and so on, so governments paid.   Basically a convoy of Hum Vees with heavily armed people, machine guns and multiple bullet proof VIP cars.    Chances of being hit were incredibly high either by insurgents or blown up by IEDs.  Either way, chances of being dead I'd put at quite a lot.   Might have been easier to go by taxi wearing a burka and keeping silent.  Blend in with the locals etc.

Back in WW2 and WW1 and any conflict perhaps until the end of  Viet Nam, people didn't know about PTSD or they thought it was fake.  Look at the film Rambo. Just typical of the post-Vietnam type story.   And then there's the veterans in other wars hiding in mountains and trying to isolate themselves.  You can see how that trauma could end up being numbed by a bottle or two.  Those guys just left to fester without help.  Shocking.

I see the US has put 8500 troops on standby.  It's an interesting ploy but in the general scheme of things it seems too small.   I think I heard Russia has upped it's troops to 120,000. Getting worse, not better.  I saw some Russian diplomat  on TV saying the West should look at Russia's offer.  Yeah, like that's going to fly.   The Russian military exercises off Ireland is quite a bad scenario - report I heard was that 70% of the transatlantic cables go via that zone.   Ireland's neutral country with no military to speak of.  They have no chance of stopping the Russian from cutting the cables.

If they cut the cables it would be a good time to know morse code or have a ham radio.
Long lost skills.

My husband escaped communist Hungary, not saying it was easy but one has to make plans ahead of time and be ready to blend in or think on your feet.
When I met him in Ca. I saw on the table that he had 2 passports, sort of thought I was dating an ,"International Man of Mystery".

8,500 Troops in nothing, Russia has a huge amount of soldiers.
I just hope Korea doesn't get wound up, my son lives in SW Japan.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

If they cut the cables it would be a good time to know morse code or have a ham radio.
Long lost skills.

My husband escaped communist Hungary, not saying it was easy but one has to make plans ahead of time and be ready to blend in or think on your feet.
When I met him in Ca. I saw on the table that he had 2 passports, sort of thought I was dating an ,"International Man of Mystery".

8,500 Troops in nothing, Russia has a huge amount of soldiers.
I just hope Korea doesn't get wound up, my son lives in SW Japan.

I cannot see Japan or Korea or even China getting sucked into it. Japan has their own dispute with Russia over some small islands north of there.  And of course, the large island of Sakhalin has had disputes over it for years.    Maybe time to settle some old scores.

Apparently Ireland hosts a lot of data centres so it's very vulnerable as infrastructure. It's an interesting tactic by Russia.

Having multiple passports is something normal these days.  Dual, triple and quadruple nationalities not unheard of.  Maybe a result of international travel and so on. 

My own family is something of a kaleidoscope of nationalities.   I was thinking of how many there are in more direct relative say as far as cousins, nephews and nieces and great nephews and nieces etc.  I can think of at least 7.

Our neighbor just called to inform us of an incindent that happened to her old neighbor and friend in Egar.
I thought Egar was a alright place to live.
The neighborhood was a bit terrorized by a family with a fighting pit bull dog.
Guess they keep the dog in the flat with them and take him on walks.The dog is always pulling and snarling at people on the walks.
We the older lady of the family was walking the dog and our friends buddy was carrying a stick with him and some spray.
There are several wild acting dogs in the hood but this one is well known to be a bully.
As the women walked past with the dog who was snarling away, the man pulled his stick but didn't use it.
He had words with the older women about the dog.
They finished their discussion and he walked away.
Out of the blue the women's son , a bully ran behind the other man and pulled the back of his jacket over his head.
Pushed him to the ground and started kicking him all over, broke his leg!
He went off to the hospital and contacted a lawyer.
His lawyer tells him because he had a stick and had spray with him that he too is liable!WTH??
Don't people have the right to defend themselves here?
This happened about a week ago.
The injured man is carrying on with the court case anyways even if he might be found partly at fault.
The scray thing is that now our friend can't contact the injured man. He is not answering his calls...
Hope all is well with him and some gang as not done anything with him.
I'm not sure how old this man is guessing in his ate 60's.
I know when our former next door neighbor beat the heck out of a man and women in our house, he was only given a fine of 200,000 forints and was written up in the paper.
Made us think about some rural areas as potentially being no-go zones.
It is very easy to be targeted by a gang of locals.
My husband said it could be easy to intimidate someone if they are ganged up on. Force you to move and sell at a low price just to get away. Then they can take over your property at little to no cost.
Sort of scary to think that is going on.
This poor man has been beaten and left with a broken leg and now must fight in court for his rights.

Interesting article from a Chinese perspective on the two Hungarian brothers who just won gold and bronze medals for skating in the Winter Olympics.

Sort of surprising the team coach is from China. I would have thought Hungary had plenty of local talent in that field.

https://www.scmp.com/sport/china/articl … strengthen

zif wrote:

Interesting article from a Chinese perspective on the two Hungarian brothers who just won gold and bronze medals for skating in the Winter Olympics.

Sort of surprising the team coach is from China. I would have thought Hungary had plenty of local talent in that field.

https://www.scmp.com/sport/china/articl … strengthen

I am not sure what we can read anything into it.  I presume their mother is Hungarian and they are dual nationals.   

It could be be like complaining about José Mourinho managing Manchester United.  Best person for the job etc.   

Perhaps they couldn't get skating help in Hungary as it's not football or handball and there's no stadium being built for them (yet).  Maybe there will be one on Csepel Island in the future.

I remember South African runner called Zola Budd who was somewhat British (she had a British grandfather) and she ran under the UK flag in the 1980s.   Her citizenship was somewhat controversial in that she was issued a passport at high speed because of a newspaper campaign.  But she went back home to SA in the end.

Yes, their mother is Hungarian, though the lengthy news story never finds space to mention that.

I assume that during the Communist era the Hungarian government devoted a lot of resources to developing Olympics medalists. Is that still the same today? Are these brothers and other medalists stars in Hungary now?

zif wrote:

Yes, their mother is Hungarian, though the lengthy news story never finds space to mention that.

I assume that during the Communist era the Hungarian government devoted a lot of resources to developing Olympics medalists. Is that still the same today? Are these brothers and other medalists stars in Hungary now?

There is an implication they have a Hungarian mother in the text but they confuse the issue by using Chinese type names.  Presumably they have their local (approved) name and their day to day Chinese language names.  Not uncommon.

I suppose those who are really into skating know who they are but I doubt anyone else does.   

It's true the Communists pushed their athletic stars and while doing it subjected them to all kinds of abuse. 

I am thinking of Nadia Comăneci from Romania who got a perfect 10.  I'm old enough to remember seeing that on the TV.  She was a stunningly capable performer. Escaped Romania to the USA.

We might be seeing similar activities going on with Russian skater Valieva.   I feel sorry for her, she's only 15.

Hereabouts, there are huge amounts of resources going into developing stadiums here for this and that.  They are everywhere.   It's becoming a bit ridiculous.  If OV loses the election then funding will be cut and they could turn into white elephants.  OVs main interest seems to be football and handball.  I suppose if skating was called skating-ball it might get funding.

Actually now I'm thinking of it, the UK piles money into developing athletes.  They get some kind of grant funding to treat their participation in their sport almost like a full time job.  This is how the UK has done so well in cycling in recent years.

Their Wikipedia entries mention a Hungarian mother.

Anyway, in the States at least a gold medal was often a good entry for product endorsements and sports announcing.

zif wrote:

Their Wikipedia entries mention a Hungarian mother.

Anyway, in the States at least a gold medal was often a good entry for product endorsements and sports announcing.

These guys will be receiving 100,000 million in HUF from the HU gov. for their medals. After age 35 they will get a monthly income of over 200,000 per month for doing nada.
Not a bad gig if you can get it.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

zif wrote:

Their Wikipedia entries mention a Hungarian mother.

Anyway, in the States at least a gold medal was often a good entry for product endorsements and sports announcing.

These guys will be receiving 100,000 million in HUF from the HU gov. for their medals. After age 35 they will get a monthly income of over 200,000 per month for doing nada.
Not a bad gig if you can get it.

That's a lot of cash for being good at going fast on a set of boots with knives fixed to the bottom.   

I'm quite good at laying about doing nothing or time wasting.  It's only a matter time before couch surfing becomes an Olympic sport.   I'm only a gifted amateur.

Our son is really good at some online games and has many thousands of followers in game forums. I have no idea why but we were surprised to learn he seems to have earnt some money doing it. He was pleased to have received $1 for whatever he did.  Need to get a handle on that.

I didn't realize countries did that now. But I see there's a Wikipedia page "Incentives for Olympic medalists by country" that lays it all out. And Hungary's payment is comparatively modest. Singapore is top of the league, paying out over US$700,000 for a gold medal.

zif wrote:

I didn't realize countries did that now. But I see there's a Wikipedia page "Incentives for Olympic medalists by country" that lays it all out. And Hungary's payment is comparatively modest. Singapore is top of the league, paying out over US$700,000 for a gold medal.

That's loadsamoney in Singapore but it's a really expensive place. $700K wouldn't go that far.   

As a country I suppose you cannot normally buy that kind of publicity and other endorsements will indeed bring in large wads of dosh.  One would be set for life.

Some interesting drones and planes flying around Ukraine (links expire when flight ends):

Global Hawk from Sigonella AFB, Italy

Ukranian Baykar Bayraktar TB2 drone from Van, Turkey

There was a USAF surveillance plane off Crimea flying from Chania (Crete) but it looks like it's leaving the area.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

zif wrote:

Their Wikipedia entries mention a Hungarian mother.

Anyway, in the States at least a gold medal was often a good entry for product endorsements and sports announcing.

These guys will be receiving 100,000 million in HUF from the HU gov. for their medals. After age 35 they will get a monthly income of over 200,000 per month for doing nada.
Not a bad gig if you can get it.

That's a lot of cash for being good at going fast on a set of boots with knives fixed to the bottom.   

I'm quite good at laying about doing nothing or time wasting.  It's only a matter time before couch surfing becomes an Olympic sport.   I'm only a gifted amateur.

Our son is really good at some online games and has many thousands of followers in game forums. I have no idea why but we were surprised to learn he seems to have earnt some money doing it. He was pleased to have received $1 for whatever he did.  Need to get a handle on that.

That's funny, boots with knives...
Very sharp kinves, my father as I mentioned a million times did a performance at Madison Square Gardens with Sonja Henning.
She was the Olympic Gold Metalist in 1927-32 and 36.
It was just an exhibition performance, a one time thing.
She landed hard on top of my fathers foot and when he took his boot off it was full of blood.
He had gone on with the show  however even in pain.
Not sure how far he could of gone if not for Hiter and him getting drafted.
He never taught me to skate though... only my 2 older sisters.
Guess he was over it by the time I arrived.
Our old HU friends hang with some dude who used to be on the HU water polo team who went to the Olympics, years ago they are now older in the 70's.
The guy didn't get 100 mil back then for life but something like 10 million for life just for being on the team. Plus easy opening into the business world... connections.
My husbands old friend was on the HU Judo team, he never got any income after he quit but they weren't in the Olympics.
Now If they had an Olympic "Shopping team" I would of been a contender...
My husband used t wrk at a huge factory in Hungary in the 1960's. He said one of the guys was on some sports team and had it super easy at work.
They gave the guy very easy jobs and he often left work after just a couple of hours to go to training.
Sometimes he was not at work for days.
PS, my father said old Sonja was a big flirt or rather an ,"old cougar" by the time he met her.
I saw a documentary on her life many years ago.
It said she hated any male skater who was better or as good as her so he messed them up if they were in her shows.
She often forced them to wear stupid outfits or a mask so no ne would give them their proper due.
My father wore a normal skating outfit but she still messed him up by landing on his foot like that.
She liked good looking younger men and always chose them as partners... Sort of the "Epstien" of the skating world back in the day. Think my father was around 19, in his prime. I wish now I could pick his memory.

How would Hungary handle a wave of refugees from Ukraine?

zif wrote:

How would Hungary handle a wave of refugees from Ukraine?

Hard to say what is going on in Hungary right now. 

Some news reports on some news sites suggested that Orban is wavering in relation to sanctions against Moscow even while publicly endorsing them at an EU level.    Hungary falls into that club of countries heavily dependent on Russian gas.  Includes Austria, Germany etc.  I believe Germany gets 75% of its gas from Russia.

Article in the EU Observer said:

Hungary hesitates

Hungary, one of the most pro-Russian EU states, had placed a temporary reserve on its accord, pending consultation with its national government. But that hesitation appeared to have waned over the course of Tuesday.

Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán had spoken with Ukrainian president Volodomyr Zelensky, assuring him that Hungary "fully supports" Ukraine's "territorial sovereignty and independence and will engage in any joint EU actions to mitigate the conflict," according to a tweet from Orbán's political director.

Even so, that initial hesitation "begs the question whether Orbán's loyalty is to Moscow or his European allies," a second EU diplomat said.

The Hungarian foreign ministry did not respond to questions.

The EU's new blacklist aside, the European Commission has also prepared a new package of economic sanctions against Russia — but these are being held back for now as a deterrent against further Russian aggression.

A wave of refugees would an interesting one given OV's stance on immigration.  I cannot see they could do anything else but let them in so long as someone else (i.e. EU) was paying.

If one was being mischievous and somewhat a fantasist one could say maybe OV sat at the end of Putin's table and said, take Ukraine, but can we have the Hungarian bits back and say, $2 billion and all the gas we could ever want at knock down prices? Probably Putin would have agreed to that in exchange for the OV crew sabotaging or reporting on the internal workings of the EU and NATO.

I saw a reddit post with exactly this question in Hungarian... You?

Vicces1 wrote:

I saw a reddit post with exactly this question in Hungarian... You?

No, wasn't me but I can imagine many people have the same idea at the same time. 

I discussed it with Mrs F and the consensus was that Putin doesn't need OV to achieve his goals and certainly doesn't need to "trade" with him. 

Putin could - since OV offered himself up on a plate - just use him as a feint/deception cum sideshow and general useful idiot.

BTW, I cannot see anyone making any preparations here for anything happening, like if there's a full on war going on next door.  Not sure what one could do except head West.

One of my concerns, aside from the threat of aggressive escalation, was the impact of Russia cutting off natural gas supplies to Europe and especially Hungary. Hungary has poor resource diversification with something like 90% of its natural gas coming from Russia. I was then interested in learning if the pipelines that fill Hungary's natural gas tanks flow through Ukraine. Although they did, they are now a more diversified mix of Croatia and trans-Turkey routes.
In a deal signed last year with Gazprom, they stated that two routes will be used -- 3.5 billion cubic meters will come via Serbia and 1 billion cubic meters via Austria.
If we were going into winter, a cut-off of Russian gas would loom larger than now as we are coming out of winter. Still a concern though obviously.

Vicces1 wrote:

One of my concerns, aside from the threat of aggressive escalation, was the impact of Russia cutting off natural gas supplies to Europe and especially Hungary. Hungary has poor resource diversification with something like 90% of its natural gas coming from Russia. I was then interested in learning if the pipelines that fill Hungary's natural gas tanks flow through Ukraine. Although they did, they are now a more diversified mix of Croatia and trans-Turkey routes.
In a deal signed last year with Gazprom, they stated that two routes will be used -- 3.5 billion cubic meters will come via Serbia and 1 billion cubic meters via Austria.
If we were going into winter, a cut-off of Russian gas would loom larger than now as we are coming out of winter. Still a concern though obviously.

I've looked at the Hungarian storage for natural gas.  There's about 1 years worth of storage in Hungary so it's quite a buffer but not strategic enough - if it was 5 years, it'd be another matter.  One doesn't see the storage as it's underground. I am very surprised that they did not diversify their supply enough.  Getting into bed with Russians seems a mistake in retrospect.

Russia's behaviour to Moldova has been very concerning. I believe Germany was pumping gas to Moldova.

Electricity is a problem too - the Russians control the nuclear power station.

My own country (UK) is quite unusual it seems as it get only about 3% of gas supplies from Russia.  The majority comes from Norway or from Qatar by ship in liquid form.  I don't know if it was luck they didn't involve Russia much or good forward planning.

fluffy2560 wrote:

.... My own country (UK) is quite unusual it seems as it get only about 3% of gas supplies from Russia.  The majority comes from Norway or from Qatar by ship in liquid form.  I don't know if it was luck they didn't involve Russia much or good forward planning.

There's no shortage of Natural Gas in the UK, but it is affected by the world market price; which has the same impact on those who can't afford it.

Cynic wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

.... My own country (UK) is quite unusual it seems as it get only about 3% of gas supplies from Russia.  The majority comes from Norway or from Qatar by ship in liquid form.  I don't know if it was luck they didn't involve Russia much or good forward planning.

There's no shortage of Natural Gas in the UK, but it is affected by the world market price; which has the same impact on those who can't afford it.

They would have bought it forward at a fixed price.  Hungary agreed with Gazprom a 15 year deal with fixed prices for 10 years and adjustment thereafter. 

Then they'd be looking at a massive windfall in selling it on if they could generate a substantial surplus. Perhaps what's what they are doing.  Unless they are restricted from selling it on.

We've touched on it before when it was a shortage of fertiliser (?) during the pandemic.  More money in the futures than the actual manufacturing.

Has anyone got room? I can see millions leaving Ukraine.

SimCityAT wrote:

Has anyone got room? I can see millions leaving Ukraine.

It's a likely scenario.   I think Austria is looking attractive now. 

Border queue to Ukraine is normal (strangely).

Saw one report on 600K people expected in Hungary alone.  OV will plead for EU funds which he will no doubt misappropriate. 

OV's response to Ukraine is going to be a major issue in the election.

I can't say for sure but my husband read the other day in a Hungarian sight that they have already shut down the gas/petrol supplies coming into Hungary from the Ukraine.
I told him to fill up the tank before things get tight with long lines at the stations but na, we are good. Where to drive to anyways?
Besides if things get that tight then for sure people will be siphoning gas.
I feel badly for those displaced people. It is a real fear to think they may cnscript your child or husband. Think it is anyone male between ages 18 to 60.
My grandfather was a teenager and a born US citizen. He traveled to Poland to visit family and was conscripted into the Czars Army. Either go along with the program or get shot on sight...
He was forced into the white army and did things he didn't want to do.
I visted Hungary when it was communist, hope the big plan isn't to return to the past...
Back in the day they would take away any property that was owned but allowing you to live in your former home under conditions. The gov. owned everything, even your home, they were kind enough to let you live there, unless of course it was in a high end area and one of their buddies wished to live there... They could always move you to another area.
You could only have one place of residence and if it was too large for your family they would move a displaced person in with you.
It was the pick of the draw too, not like you could chose who your new roomie would be.
I wonder how much arsenic was sold back then?
My husbands step-father came from Romania but was German. His family had lived in Romania for ages, several generations.
Still when things turned they had him leave Romania and that's how he found himself in Hungary after the war.
I have a sort of 6th sense at times. Many years ago I had a prediction that things wouldn't stay stable here for long, one reason we never invested heavy here in 1989, we knew it couldn't last.
No worries though they may toss out all ex-pats if we dont like the program.
I see myself on an Island anyways...
I wouldn't get overly worried, this are not 20th century wars, we will never know a thing or feel a thing if it gets ugly.

Unless your car is really old its nearly impossible to siphon fuel from a car these days.

Hungary will be fine for petrol it will be able to get it from other countries. I am sure Austria will let you have some

But what a mess that poor country. Russia will suffer in the end, and its the people I feel for because they will get hit the worse. But Putin won't care,

SimCityAT wrote:

Unless your car is really old its nearly impossible to siphon fuel from a car these days.

Hungary will be fine for petrol it will be able to get it from other countries. I am sure Austria will let you have some

But what a mess that poor country. Russia will suffer in the end, and its the people I feel for because they will get hit the worse. But Putin won't care,

Yes, we would be a target, our car is 30 years old.
We learned out lesson when we had a BMW  a cute little red thing here in Hungary.
No flash here is best. Unless you want to pay for indoor garage space.
I know it's getting weird out there.
My relations living near Gorlice , Poland and the Ukraine boarder are nervous.
They are sticking with the Ukraines and things could get bad.
They are used to hard time but who wants to go backwards.
I read old letters from a cousin who moved back to the family land post WW11. She was around 15 and was camping outside in the winter with her parents on their land after their home was burnt down.
She later moved to Australia and became a teacher, her dream that she had as a 15 year old when writting those letters to her aunt in the USA.
She asked if the family could send her some used dresses and a used winter coat. Nothing new or it would be stolen at the post. She also asked if they would sew in a $5. bill so she could buy little things she needed, nothing more of even that might be stolen if found in the lining of the coat.
Nice to know she and her family made it through that and had a nice life in OZ.
We in the west have no idea how tough people can be when they have to be.
Let's hope we never have to find out either.

SimCityAT wrote:

Unless your car is really old its nearly impossible to siphon fuel from a car these days.

Hungary will be fine for petrol it will be able to get it from other countries. I am sure Austria will let you have some

But what a mess that poor country. Russia will suffer in the end, and its the people I feel for because they will get hit the worse. But Putin won't care,

My Mrs said this morning that Hungary was never part of the USSR so why would Putin be interested in Hungary.   I don't see that independence of Hungary or anywhere else will mean much for Putin.

Most modern cars you need a special nozzle to fit into the filler neck but it can be done.   Also, there's a different size filler neck between petrol and diesel cars.  Putting petrol in a diesel car is far more common than the other way.  Diesel has a wider filling neck.   But you can get a stiff tube past the anti-siphon device with the right gear.

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

Unless your car is really old its nearly impossible to siphon fuel from a car these days.

Hungary will be fine for petrol it will be able to get it from other countries. I am sure Austria will let you have some

But what a mess that poor country. Russia will suffer in the end, and its the people I feel for because they will get hit the worse. But Putin won't care,

My Mrs said this morning that Hungary was never part of the USSR so why would Putin be interested in Hungary.   I don't see that independence of Hungary or anywhere else will mean much for Putin.

Most modern cars you need a special nozzle to fit into the filler neck but it can be done.   Also, there's a different size filler neck between petrol and diesel cars.  Putting petrol in a diesel car is far more common than the other way.  Diesel has a wider filling neck.   But you can get a stiff tube past the anti-siphon device with the right gear.

Where there is a will, there is a way.
Hungary never was part of the USSR and either was Poland but they still had thier noses in each countires business.
I don't think or at least I hope Hungary doesn't see any big issues over all of this but then again, if it's in their plans to take back all the former sattelite states then who's going to stop them?

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.....
Where there is a will, there is a way.
Hungary never was part of the USSR and either was Poland but they still had thier noses in each countires business.
I don't think or at least I hope Hungary doesn't see any big issues over all of this but then again, if it's in their plans to take back all the former sattelite states then who's going to stop them?

In theory NATO would stop Putin but I don't believe it will because Germany and France are wavering.    Orban has refused to accept NATO troops here. If Putin came here, it'd be a pushover.

Putin will, I expect,  try to take either Moldova or the Baltic states next.   He needs to make a corridor to Kaliningrad.

He already has many troops in Transnistria.    Moldova would collapse in minutes.  That's even though Moldova is a neutral country I cannot see that stopping Putin.

NATO and EU aren't doing enough. I'm still seeing Aeroflot flying over the EU and to Kaliningrad.  They should stop  overflights immediately.  There's a corridor (Suwalki Gap) to Kaliningrad from Belarus.  That needs to be restricted immediately.

Isn't there a slight echo of '56 here? Both in Moscow showing who's boss when a local leader gets a little too independent and in unrealistic local expectations that America and its allies would intervene.

zif wrote:

Isn't there a slight echo of '56 here? Both in Moscow showing who's boss when a local leader gets a little too independent and in unrealistic local expectations that America and its allies would intervene.

Absolutely yes, except Ukraine is not Russia and has been an independent country outside of the USSR for a generation.  Putin doesn't accept that version of history.

Anyway, if you listen to the radio broadcasts from the 1956 Hungarian resistance to the outside world (particularly the USA), it sounds pitiful and ultimately very sad when one knows no help was ever coming. 

Like listening to someone drowning or perhaps even the sad calls from the WTC on 9/11.

But so was Hungary a nominally independent country outside the USSR in '56. Not that Khrushchev accepted that version of independence.

And to further the analogy, here's Zelensky bemoaning the lack of Western aid:

"Who is ready to fight alongside us? I don't see anyone. . . Who is ready to give Ukraine a guarantee of NATO membership? Everyone is afraid. . .
We're defending our country alone. The most powerful forces in the world are watching this from a distance."

Zelensky is no student of history.

zif wrote:

But so was Hungary a nominally independent country outside the USSR in '56. Not that Khrushchev accepted that version of independence.

And to further the analogy, here's Zelensky bemoaning the lack of Western aid:

"Who is ready to fight alongside us? I don't see anyone. . . Who is ready to give Ukraine a guarantee of NATO membership? Everyone is afraid. . .
We're defending our country alone. The most powerful forces in the world are watching this from a distance."

Zelensky is no student of history.

Hungary was punished for being part of Axis in WW2 and being in support of Germany during the siege of Stalingrad and other Arrow Cross actions.   Putin was deputy mayor in "Stalingrad".  Makes you wonder what he thinks of Hungary and Hungarians.  Maybe he will want to replay those events of history as well.

I don't know if Zelensky is a student of history or not but you make it sound negative.  Zelensky is right and fighting for his country.  It's the same kind of 1956 pleas and no support from outside. 

I note some latest news reports from Ukraine. Estimates are 1000 Russian dead and more than 200 Ukrainians.  I cannot see Putin being able to hide that from the Russian people.

Issues all around, no easy answers. No NATO country will send its sons and daughters to be killed in Ukraine, there is no benefit. The reason the SWIFT ban is not a solution (yet) is that is how natural gas is paid for -- and Germany, Hungary, and others need natural gas for their economies to function.  Block SWIFT and it's a countdown to reserves going empty and economies killed. Again, no benefit for NATO.
Add to that the fact that Switzerland will not block Russian payments, India is looking for a way to circumvent any financial blockages, and China is a Russian friend and there is no stranglehold in these sanctions, just a mild tourniquet. To be clear, I am not saying DON'T do the sanctions, they SHOULD be implemented and by far more countries. However, we have to understand that this is not a chokehold, just a mild pressure point. Of much more severity is the freezing of Russian-controlled assets all over the world, especially personal assets. I could see the oligarchs having a stronger opinion if their own lifestyles were put under a microscope and endangered. But again, that's a longer-term solution.
The US needs to ensure that this authoritarian aggression is met strongly, but sensibly. China will be looking for any cracks to launch its own offensive against Taiwan. Other authoritarian leaders will also be hoping for American distraction to take advantage of their situations.
Interesting to note if Russia thinks it will be able to keep Ukraine with such a small occupying force -- Ukrainians have everything to fight for, the Russian army has no desire to be there. Bogged down and lost like Afghanistan in the 80's? Again, we need to be thinking longer term for this conflict...Sure, do what we can in the short-term, I am sure Europe will be looking to diversify its energy sources and emancipate itself from Russian energy ASAP. But until then, it's a long-term pragmatic slog...

Foolishly getting your country into a war you cannot possibly win isn't right. It's stupid. Deadly stupid. Russia would no more tolerate Ukraine joining NATO than America would have tolerated Canada joining the Warsaw Pact.

I'm not sure I would characterize it as the Ukrainians foolishly getting into a war. They democratically chose their leader. They democratically chose their Western direction.
I would hope you are not arguing that autocrats should be allowed to do anything they want just on the basis of having a larger military and nuclear weapons...

zif wrote:

Foolishly getting your country into a war you cannot possibly win isn't right. It's stupid. Deadly stupid. Russia would no more tolerate Ukraine joining NATO than America would have tolerated Canada joining the Warsaw Pact.

I don't think Ukraine had much of a choice.  War was forced upon them by Russians.    I don't know why Russia ever viewed NATO as a likely attacker.  No-one wants to be engaged in a war with Russia and they only react because of Putin's aggression.  It's all down to Putin's ego and meglomania. Aka Vlad the Mad.

There's a split in the country - Donbass might seem like Russia but the rest of the country is very much Ukrainian.   They majority are not going to welcome a Russian puppet.

I don't see Russia can keep it up if the majority of the population is going to fight back.   They don't have enough troops.  They'd need over a million to take the entire country.   Their forces on this invasion is about 40% of their total strength.  Putin needs to keep some in reserve as he could lose control elsewhere.

What the Russian Army have been told must be at odds to what they see on the ground.  One has to wonder if they are questioning what they are doing is insane.  Many of them will have  relatives in Ukraine.  They aren't there to overthrow Nazis and drug addicts.   And eventually they will not be keen to fight for Putin's ego.

BTW, I wondered about  wider challenges to the Putin's view of the world and his own country.  I heard from a contact that Armenia intends to withdraw from the CSTO.   

I was also thinking back to the independence minded governor of Khabarovsk Krai who was removed by Putin on trumped up murder charges.    Far away places won't necessarily want to be under Putin's thumb.  Some of the regions might make a dash for freedom.

Have you spent any time in Ukraine? Odessa and Kharkiv for example also have a heavy Russian influence. We won't even mention Crimea!