Absolutely Anything Else

http://www.liberties.eu/en/short-news/18783

I think there needs to be more discussion about that fence.

Vicces1 wrote:

http://www.liberties.eu/en/short-news/18783

I think there needs to be more discussion about that fence.

I reckon it's against the UN conventions.

If I remember correctly, there's an obligation to provide a place of safety to refugees, access medical attention, etc.

Example: Swiss Border Guard Prosecution

From my alert system:

Hungary: Demonstration planned in Budapest on 29 May
   
       
    29 May 17
An anti-government demonstration is planned in the capital, Budapest, on 29 May 2017 from 17:00 local time (19:00 GMT). The demonstration is scheduled to take place outside of the Hungarian parliament building in Kossuth Lajos Square. About 1,000 participants are expected during the demonstration. Travelers are advised to avoid the affected area due to associated disruptions.

I watched one of those marches (a few thousand people) from my balcony at Muzeum krt. I think it was on 22 of May. I don't follow HU politics. What is this all about? What do people protest? The organizers yelled through megaphone "DEMOKRATIA!!!!", which seem to be redundant while having a free demonstration in the center of the capital protected by government police.

As far as fences and borders are concerned, I think there is a deliberate misunderstanding among general public regarding border security. No EU country suspends refugee programs or admission of refugees. There is an established process in every nation of EU for those who flee from persecution or genocide.
Economic migrants are not = refugees.
Economic immigration to the Western countries is not a right of everyone it is a privilege granted by the host country to the very few.

MOHCTEP wrote:

I don't follow HU politics. What is this all about?

Already in this thread, and just one page back:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 17#3688106

MOHCTEP wrote:

The organizers yelled through megaphone "DEMOKRATIA!!!!", which seem to be redundant while having a free demonstration

Being allowed to demonstrate is per se not a definition of democracy. Even autocrats have been known to allow demonstrations if they are politically expedient, sufficiently controlled and small enough to be then publicly dismissed politically as just a "fringe" element.

And "democracy" is a slippery word anyway. Tyranny of the majority is also "democratic".

MOHCTEP wrote:

in the center of the capital protected by government police.

Or maybe just there to sweep in and crack down if anyone steps out of line?  I am not saying what I said is true or not, but one must understand that people do see things differently than you, or where the actual truth lies.

MOHCTEP wrote:

There is an established process in every nation of EU for those who flee from persecution or genocide. Economic migrants are not = refugees.

True. But blanket labeling 800,000 people all as economic migrants without even bothering to first check their individual back story is not following the established process by any stretch of the imagination.

According to the Schengen Agreement and the Dublin Accords, whether someone is an economic migrant, a refugee, or simply transient (illegal or otherwise) is supposed to be determined at the first point of entry into one of the Schengen Area countries.

Hungary, Greece, and Italy, bearing the brunt of this effort, was chastised greatly for not processing these people fast enough subsequent to Merkel's blanket and unlimited invitation.  All three nations have had to suspend these border protections so that Austria (who subsequently closed their borders) and Germany (who subsequently closed their borders) could enjoy the diversity of the influx.

Also, by definition, a refugee is no longer a refugee if they are crossing several democratic and free countries in order to get to their preferred destinations, those who pay the best (namely Sweden and Germany).  And according to the 1951 Geneva Convention and the 1967 protocol, any country receiving a potential claim can be returned to countries whence they came, as they should have claimed refugee status or asylum in that first country.  Again, these agreements were suspended due to the number of refugees / economic migrants / opportunists "invited" by Merkel.

Before rocks and verbal outrage is sent my way, this is not a comment about my sympathy, empathy, or compassion for refugees.  Just a non-lawyerly comment on the legalities.

https://www.rt.com/news/330284-economic … -refugees/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world … 36306.htmlhttps://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … l-positionhttp://publications.europa.eu/webpub/co … crisis/en/

klsallee wrote:

MOHCTEP wrote:

There is an established process in every nation of EU for those who flee from persecution or genocide. Economic migrants are not = refugees.

True. But blanket labeling 800,000 people all as economic migrants without even bothering to first check their individual back story is not following the established process by any stretch of the imagination.

I've never implied that all of the migrants are indeed economic refugees. I merely suggested that there are two established processes and two way to handle the immigration. See my point about deliberate misunderstanding.
Mass migration from ME was a result of Turkey letting people through in order to exert pressure on EU. Turkey got paid , Turkey stopped letting people through the flow of migrants is down to a trickle now.
P.S. One might argue that there would not be any Syrian or Libyan crisis if not for Obama administration and his EU minions meddling in the ME.

P.S. Terrible plans about city-park. Budapest needs more parks and trees it is one of the most polluted cities in EU. Thanks in no small part  to Germany for siphoning all its junky diesel cars to E. Europe.

Vicces1 wrote:

Hungary, Greece, and Italy, bearing the brunt of this effort, was chastised greatly for not processing these people fast enough subsequent to Merkel's blanket and unlimited invitation.  All three nations have had to suspend these border protections so that Austria (who subsequently closed their borders) and Germany (who subsequently closed their borders) could enjoy the diversity of the influx.

There is a lot of legitimate blame to go around. For example, IMHO, if Germany wanted to host these refugees, then they certainly could have chartered flights to bring them to Germany rather than force them to walk across the continent. That was cruel to the refugees.

But saying Hungary, Greece, and Italy were chastised for simply not process applications fast enough is misleading and simplistic. Far, far more complex than that. For example, Greece refused many offers by other EU countries to help Greece with registration and other refugee assistance.

And that also ignores the continued degree of political rhetoric since in countries like Hungary (and which lead to such things as launching the failed referendum).

I will limit my feelings on the NWO and the "agenda" for mixing up cultures and people in great masses without a care for how the locals handle the changes and adapt in the own backyards.
Too many people entering anywhere is too much for any country to adjust to let alone a culture/cultures that are so different.
There is a bigger picture then what the media is telling us, a agenda that we are not privy to.
I do know when my husband escaped Hungary in the early 1970's he entered Italy knowing full well ahead of time that he would be placed under arrest and put in a refugee camp until he cleared Interpol.
Not sure why all these new comers expect the red carpet treatment.
Special foods etc. I know my friend was a few months pregnant when she and her husband escaped HUngary. She got no special foods for months, she lost so much weight because she just couldn't swallow another bite of pasta, 3 times a day it was pasta in the camps. I love pasta but even after 45 years I can't hardly get my husband to eat pasta after the camps.
It would be nice if they even had a real ID with their actual age on it and their real names, I am guessing of course that many of these men are ex-military and know their way around a fight if needed. Scary with all the local  people these days mostly being wimps who probably never even got into a school yard fight in their lives.
In the refugee camps for Hungarians, most stayed between 8 months to just over a year, they were free to leave during the daylight hours but didn't mix with the locals in Italy, all the young Italian girls knew better then to even talk with these drifters.
The camps did hold families and women but mostly it was all young men who left Hungary with time on their hands while they waited to clear immigration and background checks.
They were kept busy with classes in languages and with seeing films about different countries and the lifestyles of each country, so that they would have a little clue as to how to behave and what was expected from them before entering.
Of course the culture of these young Hungarians was not much different then western people, same religions and same sets of values for the most part.
Most had left HUngary for either adventure or to try to make money and a new life for themselves in the west, they were not looking to make trouble although a few criminal types did somehow slip through, a few were later deported after serving time in jail, I have ran across a couple of them over the years, some were murdered by their "friends' in bad deals, some had to skip town from state to state to keep ahead of people they "owed". A few even came back here to Hungary and brought their ill gotten gains with them, they tend to avoid places like FB and social media just in case someone out there decides to get even.A few have been buried here in HU taking their shady past with them. Most however have fully inter grated and are citizens and have raised their children to be members of their new countries.Most have been an asset to their new countries.
My father was the son of a US citizen and a Rusin lady and was born in Poland in 1921.Even as a child of a US citizen he had to clear immigration and have shots, get infused with bug spray and stay at Ellis Island for weeks before being allowed to leave and be free to walk about in the US. My grandmother was handicapped, if her husband was not a US citizen I doubt they would even allow her off the ship.( lost a arm as a young girl)
Just saying, not even sure what but just sort of gets strange knowing how everyone thinks others should bend over backwards for them for no reason other then here we are.

MOHCTEP wrote:

I've never implied that all of the migrants are indeed economic refugees. I merely suggested that there are two established processes and two way to handle the immigration.

I was referring to the government which has systematized such rejection and refuses to accept any refugees from those 800,000. You may not follow Hungarian politics, but surely you were aware of the recent referendum attempt to legitimize this view.

I read about referendum results.
I have a mixed feelings of the refugee process/status in general.
I was a refugee myself when I left USSR and entered the US. I had an official status of refugee, but the benefits did not go as far as they are in EU. My family received 6 months of medicaid and welfare that is it. The free English classes plus job search counselling was provided by philanthropic  non-gov. organisation. We were not real refugees, we were pure economic immigrants. We were not in danger of being killed or incarcerated, in the USSR. We just used the opportunity presented to us.
However, we were all highly educated and white Europeans, so fitting into Western culture of US was just a minor annoyance, not an issue. In 12 months we were indistinguishable from locals and employed.
This is an example of "refugees" that although not truly deserving the status still net-net beneficial to the host country.
So my view of the refugee claims is somewhat colored by my own experience and those around me with the similar circumstances.
I am highly skeptical of relocation approach when it comes to migrants from Syria or ME in general unless they are established religious minority and cannot be protected in their own country by creating a safe zone. Given an opportunity any person currently residing in 3rd World would happily accept refugee status in the West. It is more prudent to spend money in Syria and Libya on said refugees than exporting them into EU. Not to mention it would be cheaper .

MOHCTEP wrote:

My family received 6 months of medicaid and welfare that is it. The free English classes plus job search counselling was provided by philanthropic  non-gov. organisation.

And were you aware that some of the protests mentioned earlier are against a law to increase regulation on NGOs in Hungary? Some maybe of the very type that helped you in the States?

MOHCTEP wrote:

we were all highly educated and white Europeans, so fitting into Western culture of US was just a minor annoyance, not an issue.

  I know plenty of non-white, non Europeans who fit in and do very well in the USA. And, yes, those include both migrants and even some war refugees.

MOHCTEP wrote:

Given an opportunity any person currently residing in 3rd World would happily accept refugee status in the West.

Any person? Really? Did you personally ask all 4 billion of them so you know for sure? Including all the upper class persons currently residing in "3rd World" countries who would probably take a drop in their relative standard of living (not to mention their political and social influence) by relocating? 

But seriously, can not tell if you were just using hyperbole, being facetious or being earnest. So I decided to be myself just facetious.

MOHCTEP wrote:

It is more prudent to spend money in Syria and Libya on said refugees than exporting them into EU. Not to mention it would be cheaper .

Yes, that is an idea floated mostly by politicians, for obvious reasons.

Others say it is neither that easy, inexpensive, fully possible, or even a good idea.

Differences of opinions is what makes horse races, if nothing else.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ … in-west-unhttp://time.com/3979906/syria-safe-zones/

ksallee Let's not berate the man for his experiences. They are his, not yours.  You've been extremely coddled in your travel and immigration statuses and cannot imagine what he went through, the sacrifices his family made, and the benefits received.

You have posted several times that this is a complex issue. I think we all agree. So slavish opening of borders is not an easy solution, as you seem to suggest. A comprehensive, standardized plan should be crafted.  Ideally, this is what the Schengen Agreement and Dublin Accords were supposed to deal with, as well as the previously noted Geneva Convention.  However, none of these laws were crafted with the idea of MILLIONS of transients of all types rushing the EU borders.  NONE of these laws were crafted with the idea that one country would offer an unlimited invitation to the world, without consulting the other EU members.

There is no easy solution. But surely we can agree that throwing open the doors to all immigration because of the harsh realities present throughout the world (there are more than 60 million migrants in the world as of 2015) is not a solution.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 … -refugees/

Surely you can understand that my grandparents did not die in WW1, my uncles in WW2, to support the Middle Eastern way of life.  No, I would like to support my fellow citizens, address the high unemployment rates and welfare of my fellow Europeans (of every color, race, and creed) before I spend one centavo on helping opportunistic economic migrants flooding any country in the EU.  You may not agree, but I hope you can understand that.

klsallee wrote:

And were you aware that some of the protests mentioned earlier are against a law to increase regulation on NGOs in Hungary? Some maybe of the very type that helped you in the States?

I think regulations on NGOs is important issue. NGOs are often tool of Western liberal elite to subvert  political opinion and create favorable conditions for their economic agenda. I'd go step further and say that some NGOs are used as fronts for espionage. CIA have been using Medical NGO's that provide vaccinations in the 3rd World to collect genetic information on potential targets. That resulted in doctors and nurses being lynched by the crowds.
I have no problem requiring NGOs to disclose their sources of funding, I think it is essential. Some powerful and destructive forces have undue influence on education and political discourse by using NGOs as their tool of brainwashing people into absurd, mythical notions.
P.S. In my case we've received some support from the local religious charity.

klsallee wrote:

  I know plenty of non-white, non Europeans who fit in and do very well in the USA. And, yes, those include both migrants and even some war refugees.

Of course anything is possible on the level of individual immigrant's case. When one looks at the mass migration it becomes obvious that people are tribal and prefer to create tribal ghettos in the host countries. This used to be true for Europeans, 100 years ago.  If one looks at US as a "glorious" example of a melting pot one cannot ignore the fact that even US is divided along cultural, tribal and racial lines. That is why every city in US has white, black , Hispanic etc neighborhoods and not all of this economic. I would argue that most of this self-segregation is cultural. The only immigrants that integrate well with Europeans are Asians, imho. Asians either completely adopt EU culture or mind their own business in ethic enclaves like Chinese in Budapest.

klsallee wrote:

Any person? Really? Did you personally ask all 4 billion of them so you know for sure? Including all the upper class persons currently residing in "3rd World" countries who would probably take a drop in their relative standard of living (not to mention their political and social influence) by relocating? 

Actually upper classes or educated upper middle class always the first to leave any war zone or troubled area. That is why I believe accepting those refugees on a permanent basis in the West has long lasting detrimental effect on the ME (as example). When lawyers, doctors, teachers, engineers all left for the better life in the West ME country is sat back 100s of years in its development. Stripped of intelligentsia ME country is left in the hands of former political operatives and war lords the outcome is always bad. So exporting the best and brightest to the West from the rest of the World has terrible consequences for both sides.

klsallee wrote:

Yes, that is an idea floated mostly by politicians, for obvious reasons.

Others say it is neither that easy, inexpensive, fully possible, or even a good idea.

Differences of opinions is what makes horse races, if nothing else.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ … in-west-unhttp://time.com/3979906/syria-safe-zones/

Syria safe zones is a bad example . I was not talking about this Pentagon wet dream of no-fly zones to undermine Assad/RU activities in order to train Al Qaeda in such zones & continue to fan civil war. That is why I mentioned Saudi Arabia that has huge refugee camps that still remain empty. Jordan & Turkey took huge numbers of Syrians and that is where the West have to help them instead of inviting them to come on over. As I said before resettling ME people in the West is a terrible and counter-productive idea.

MOHCTEP wrote:

...P.S. Terrible plans about city-park. Budapest needs more parks and trees it is one of the most polluted cities in EU. Thanks in no small part  to Germany for siphoning all its junky diesel cars to E. Europe.

Agree on the parks. 

However, the pollution standards are the same across the EU so a car in Germany has to be to the same standard as those in Hungary.   

The problem is that governments of Europe encouraged the use of diesel cars because of fuel economy while neglecting the cancer causing particulates and other pollutants.   On top of that, we have the VW emissions scandal and the high taxes on vehicles in Hungary. The EU is a pain - vehicle registration taxes are not part of their competence and car owners are an easy target for squeezing revenue.  With free movement of goods, any old junk can be brought in.  Previously (back in mid-2000s) the government of Hungary was taxing second hand cars on their new value and had to move their tax regime to work on the actual market value as this was against the free movement of goods and effectively a tariff on second hand vehicles.   

So actually, it's not junky diesel cars at all, it's a combination of EU policy, fraud by VW, tax policy in Hungary and balancing up EU law with pollution risks.

Government here could be encouraging electric cars charged by home based solar panels. But imagine the loss of tax revenue.  It's like smoking - government relies on the revenue but balances it against the health cost.

fluffy2560 wrote:

MOHCTEP wrote:

...P.S. Terrible plans about city-park. Budapest needs more parks and trees it is one of the most polluted cities in EU. Thanks in no small part  to Germany for siphoning all its junky diesel cars to E. Europe.

Agree on the parks. 

However, the pollution standards are the same across the EU so a car in Germany has to be to the same standard as those in Hungary.   

The problem is that governments of Europe encouraged the use of diesel cars because of fuel economy while neglecting the cancer causing particulates and other pollutants.   On top of that, we have the VW emissions scandal and the high taxes on vehicles in Hungary. The EU is a pain - vehicle registration taxes are not part of their competence and car owners are an easy target for squeezing revenue.  With free movement of goods, any old junk can be brought in.  Previously (back in mid-2000s) the government of Hungary was taxing second hand cars on their new value and had to move their tax regime to work on the actual market value as this was against the free movement of goods and effectively a tariff on second hand vehicles.   

So actually, it's not junky diesel cars at all, it's a combination of EU policy, fraud by VW, tax policy in Hungary and balancing up EU law with pollution risks.

Government here could be encouraging electric cars charged by home based solar panels. But imagine the loss of tax revenue.  It's like smoking - government relies on the revenue but balances it against the health cost.

You do realize that used cars made in mid 2000 or earlier are not held to the same emission standard as newer cars when going through inspection? So junky German VW or BMW brought into E.Europe will always pollute more than a newer car. What stimulates export of German junk into the rest of EU is the fact that German cars are often cheaper and available in abundance on German used car market. So what is the problem you might ask , it is a free market anyone is free to buy cars where they find the best deal...
Unless German government was tacitly stimulating fraud and export of their used junk to other countries. The way they do that is by refusing to establish used car mileage verification system that exist in France, Holland, Belgium and other neighboring countries. By German statistics, I read a while ago, over 70% of used cars sold in Germany have fraudulent mileage in the absence of means to verify it . That is the way German government stimulates export of polluting junk to their neighbors. Everyone but the consumer are aware of this fraud and as a result roads are full of Romanian and Hungarian trailers pulling that German junk for resale. Going to Germany to buy that low mileage Mercedes or Opel, think again. It is most likely have mileage rolled back and that is why it is cheaper in Germany. A  car dealer bought it for a pocket change at the auction, rolled mileage back and flipped it to E. EU re-sellers. And that is in no small part why we have Budapest drowning in smog and pollution every Winter .

Here's an interesting graphic...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_rCT … U1Z2s/view

MOHCTEP wrote:

.............
You do realize that used cars made in mid 2000 or earlier are not held to the same emission standard as newer cars when going through inspection? So junky German VW or BMW brought into E.Europe will always pollute more than a newer car. What stimulates export of German junk into the rest of EU is the fact that German cars are often cheaper and available in abundance on German used car market. So what is the problem you might ask , it is a free market anyone is free to buy cars where they find the best deal...

Vehicle regulations pre-2000 were UNECE (United Nations Economic Commission for Europe) which do contain a set of common regulations to those signed up to UNECE vehicle standards.  The actual emissions standard depended on the type of fuel and the use of electronic engine management systems to control the vehicle - e.g. petrol engines/diesel engines etc.   The use of particulate filters was not mandatory.   Germany introduced particulate filters.

MOHCTEP wrote:

..... Going to Germany to buy that low mileage Mercedes or Opel, think again. It is most likely have mileage rolled back and that is why it is cheaper in Germany. A  car dealer bought it for a pocket change at the auction, rolled mileage back and flipped it to E. EU re-sellers. And that is in no small part why we have Budapest drowning in smog and pollution every Winter .

It's a complex subject.  The HU government has always tried to screw the vehicle owning public on registration taxes.   

Winding back the clock is not actually that easy these days.  You need quite good equipment to do that or access to the service location and therefore the software from the manufacturer.  In many modern cars (from I think about 1998), had to have immobilisers fitted by EU law which is usually integrated into the electronics.  There are several parts to the immobiliser system which are interlinked as a system - replacing one requires replacement of them all.  As I recall the immobiliser system - one disables the fuel pump, the other is connected to the instruments and finally the engine management system.   So if your instruments (and mileage indicator) goes, you need to reprogramme the system at the service location.   Not to say those around Eastern Europe are incapable of fiddling the mileage - they surely are.

In other countries (UK), mileage is recorded (voluntarily) by the registration authorities.

More importantly just today, The Donald has pulled out of the climate deal.  This is probably the weirdest thing he has done so far.   So much for pollutant controls.

Quirky British comedy....transferred from other threads

Football Hooligans

and

Gerald The Gorilla

And the classic: 

I like Truckin'

fluffy2560 wrote:

I like Truckin'

Shocking number of cyclists rubbed out by that truck.   

And I thought cycling in Hungary was problematic enough. 

I think we should have a "Absolutely Anything Else part 2.
This thread is way too long now...

Hope everyone is having a nice summer.
lots of trips to Balaton this year, the water is wonderful there in my humble opinion.
I have swam in Hawaii, S, France, Belize and on the east coast of the US  and find the Balaton waters probably the finest for temp. and water quality.Monte Carlo was nice to look at but those rocks... Ouch!!
Finally have the "perfect" tan, just a slow summer tan without burning, now summer is about over and so the tan will fade away... why even bother?
Heard that just yesterday, Sat, 2 young men in their 20's died at Balaton. Sad but they were being silly.
Heard of course there was allot of alcohol involved in their accident.
They rented one of those paddle boats and they both dove off into 2 meter high water. People fished out their bodies.
I have no idea what happened but I suspect they both broke their necks. There are so many shallow spots underwater in Siofolk.
Hate to say it, if that was the case they are both better off not going through living with a broken neck.
My old school friend's older bro was messing around in the Kern River in the US. He dorve into shallow waters and broke his neck.
This was 30 or more years ago. He had been in Vietnam as a US soldier and was taken out by a bad drive in a river.
No use of his arms at all.
In a wheelchair for awhile, couldn't take it and had a friend give him a "hot shot" to end it all.
Strange how life can be though, this friend of mine is in a wheelchair now herself. Very strange turn of events.
should be a warning to all, some people just do not think before acting.
We have seen the cliff divers on Maui but they know how deep the water is before jumping .

Drive down the Blvd on our way home from the lake I noticed a new "danger" on the city sidewalks for walkers.
downtown they are renting out this strange contraption, a sort of mix of a bike with big fat tires like a souped up motorbike with what looks like a mini electric engine with racing bars.
People were seen on the sidewalk riding these!
No helmets no bells no nothing, not even control of the thing.
Saw a couple in their 20's riding them, looked like clueless tourists, the "girl" using that term loosely, was wearing a sundress with literally her entire bra showing from behind and going every which way on the sidewalk without any control of the scooter thingy.
Only a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured, hope not a innocent walker.
I wonder how they ever get a permit to rent out these things here in the city? Someone or something smells fishy to me, public danger and no one even seems to care, if money is involved it seems anything goes.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Heard that just yesterday, Sat, 2 young men in their 20's died at Balaton. Sad but they were being silly.
Heard of course there was allot of alcohol involved in their accident.
They rented one of those paddle boats and they both dove off into 2 meter high water.

There have been a lot of deaths this year at the Balaton. Not only does alcohol and boats never mix well, but one of the deaths (I heard, from others so can not verify) was when family went out on one of those paddle boats quite far from shore, and one fell overboard and drowned. Because he simply could not swim. Nor could anyone else in the family, so nobody could save him.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Drive down the Blvd on our way home from the lake I noticed a new "danger" on the city sidewalks for walkers.
downtown they are renting out this strange contraption, a sort of mix of a bike with big fat tires like a souped up motorbike with what looks like a mini electric engine with racing bars.
People were seen on the sidewalk riding these!

I was in Kezsthley a few weeks ago and saw those. I agree, all sorts of possible source of collision from them on the sidewalk.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Someone or something smells fishy to me, public danger and no one even seems to care, if money is involved it seems anything goes.

Sounds like an accurate assessment to me.

Heard the same sad tale about a child I think that drowned by jumping off a paddle boat and no one could swim.

Sorry to say that was a no brainer as far as accident waiting to happen.

My father was a excellent swimmer, once so the tale goes he did a dive from high up on a tree limb into a lake and his sister who was pregnant at the time was so scared that she lost her baby out of fear.
His BIL never forgave him for that, not sure if that was true or not but my dad had "that sort" of personality, attention seeker style.

Death happens to us all but being stupid and not taking steps to be on the safe side just blows my mind.
Guess because I have seen death first hand and had a few near misses myself, it makes one a bit more of a "fraidy cat".

When I was 7 years old my parents had divorced,dad was living in a mansion with a wheelchair bound women and her mother.
He used to say he was in charge of her ."therapy", please!!
Anyways she had a nice pool at her home.
On one of my dad's "parent" days he took us 4 kids to her home to swim. She and her mom were not at home but he had the OK to use her home to entertain   us for the day.
My older sisters could swim , I couldn't and neither could my 3 year old bro.
Dad put my 14 and 12 year old sisters in charge of watching my bro and I while he went indoors to fix lunch for us.
My 2 sisters wanted to go indoors and just casually called to me to watch my bro.
Again, I was only 7 and couldn't swim.
I saw my bro just take off running even though I told him to slow down and come towards me, he slipped and fell in the deep end.
My dad just happened to look out the window at the moment, he ran out fully dressed and saved my bro by diving into the pool.
I still am angry at the injustice, I got a spanking for not watching my bro better!
Knowing my vain father, it was most likely he was mad about getting himself wet.
Something was just not right about that situation for sure.
Both my sisters didn't even get a scolding, it was all on me!
I became so afraid of water that I was 19 before I learned to swim.
Things like that change one, I am always looking for problems and trying to find a solution, justice warrior.

I do wonder if Facebook, YouTube etc. are partly responsible for some of these accidents, like the diving ones. People watch videos of other people diving off mountains into lakes or whatever, unaware of the research needed to ensure a safe outcome.

Not sure, like my mom used to say, "If everyone was jumping off a cliff, would you follow them"?
I know in the US anyone who rented out equipment to use on water would have to also provide life jackets with the rental.
I can now swim and when I used to practice how to go upright on our kayak in our swimming pool, I wore the life jacket because that is part of the equipment one must wear to use the kayak in open waters.
Never did get the hang of it though...
Allot of people just do not use their minds these days.
So many people walking into things because using their cell phone is more important then watching where they are going.
Saw a women last week riding her bike on the sidewalk while having all her attention on the  screen, she was bewitched for sure.

I didn't know about any of these drownings.  Going out that far without the capability to swim is total madness. 

Some places in Balaton are extremely dangerous with deeper holes which in some weather conditions, have eddy currents that can drag people down.

And as for the warning lights, that means get out of the water!  Couldn't be clearer!

I have a canoe I use on Balaton and I'm starting to let the kids use it on their own.  We have life jackets for everyone but the rule is that no-one ever goes out beyond the depth they can stand up in anyway. 

I used to go sailing as a kid and we never sailed without life jackets.  The reason was that if you got hit on the head and ended up in the water, the jacket would turn you face up and keep you alive.  Common sense!

Smart to always wear a lifejacket on any sort of boat.
My old friend on Maui told me when she was a teenager and out surfing in Honolulu, she fell off her board and it hit her on the head, she was knocked out cold. Lucky for her a guy saw the accident and dragged her to shore by her long hair.
My little old hubby here used to be a very good surfer on Maui, the locals took him to their beaches, he was taken in by a gang of local Hawaiians, not a easy task at all for them to hang with a Howlie.
We even gave our son his middle name in honor of one of those local guys.
Anyways, once my husband was riding a huge wave and got turned over off his board, was held down for what seemed like forever underwater by the currents, very dangerous hobby to be a surfer.
Good thing he never told me about these events until much later, I would of freaked out.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....My old friend on Maui told me when she was a teenager and out surfing in Honolulu, she fell off her board and it hit her on the head, she was knocked out cold. Lucky for her a guy saw the accident and dragged her to shore by her long hair.
....

Yup, that's what I'm talking about.  I had sailing lessons when I was a kid.

It was bashed into our heads (pun intended) that we might get knocked over when "going about" (turning).

Being in the water in the UK is likely to be a death sentence - so cold you'd die quickly - so best not to end up in the drink.

Don't even want to think how much "fun" it would be to swim in the ocean in the UK.
I could barely spend 5 mins in the cold waters in S. Cal at Malibu, freezing all year long.
Drive for an hour to the ocean and swim for 5 mins.Of course back in the 80's the beach was for people watching, not for actually swimming.
I tried and tried to learn to turn my kayak upright in our pool for the off chance a wave would turn me over in the ocean. Didn't want to take off the kayak skirt and lose whatever was being carried inside the kayak.
Just never could turn myself upright, never went into very deep waters because I couldn't master that move.

How do most expats feel about the FIDESZ policy towards migration and immigration?

Chikagoan wrote:

How do most expats feel about the FIDESZ policy towards migration and immigration?

Why don't you first give your opinion about it, before you ask or expect others to "out" themselves.

Chikagoan wrote:

How do most expats feel about the FIDESZ policy towards migration and immigration?

Depends if you're a left leaning liberal or not.

How about if you are a liberal? I personally don't think unrestricted illegal immigration is necessarily good for a country.

Chikagoan wrote:

How about if you are a liberal? I personally don't think unrestricted illegal immigration is necessarily good for a country.

Liberal would agree with you about unrestricted illegal immigration. Because, that was never the issue. For example, refugees are not, by international law, illegal immigrants. And blanket calling everyone, for example, an economic refugee without proof, so to claim they have no legal status, is simply politics, and politicians pandering to a political base.

The above is true in any country.

I think there are several topics merged into one question.
Legal vs Illegal immigration
Refugee vs Economic migrant
Restricted vs unrestricted policies
And even liberal vs whatever is not liberal which is not necessarily conservative...

I have seen and read many good discussions on this topic on the Quora website. I, myself, have even presented some opinions there.  I would be happy to put forth a few here, but I honestly don't think this is the right website or forum for that discussion.  If you would like my personal thoughts, I can link some of those Quora discussions or feel free to message me privately.

Good replies!

Basically as a left-leaning (well, only a bit) liberal (a lot!), Hungary has it's obligations to look after refugees.  It signed up to the UN convention.

Unfortunately the government has found a non-voting scapegoat in illegal immigration (cf. refugees) it can use to justify "illiberal" policies while calling itself a democracy and being cosy with the Russians, the former occupiers.  It can also ignore its obligations under the UN convention and shift its obligations to the neighbouring countries.  Not an friendly act. 

Russia's "Illiberal democracy"  is what Fidesz's leader wishes to emulate - his words.  Unfortunately there is collateral damage and the place is in danger of becoming a banana republic.   

Some of the illiberal stuff is working itself down into schools now and the media is heavily controlled.  This is not the stuff of a modern democracy.

I stay away from anything political, both here and in the US.
Who listens to the everyday person anyways...

I wanted to mention too, there is no special treatment for locals vs non locals to speak of.
City life is city life from NY to Budapest, London or Paris, if people see a weakness they will go in for the kill if they can.
Our neighbors have been ripped off and have paid large tips to doctors just like a foreigner is sometimes taken advantage of.
You must always be on guard in all situations when doing any sort of business.
From auto shops to super markets anywhere really.
In the US it is normal to go back to a store if you notice that you overpaid for something. Here from what we have experienced only the larger chain stores will give you back your money for a faulty product.
Even so that is a rather new thing here, we boycotted Tesco for many, many years because they wouldn't let us exchange a car battery that didn't fit our car, we were going to buy a more expensive one too.
Now they listen and you can do some returns.
There is no secret password or handshake here, everyone has to watch their backs and be ready for anything.
As long as people put money before people nothing will change anywhere. Greed kills.

Our son's old Japanese GF was ripped off on auto repairs so many times in Las Vegas, my husband got angry when he looked over her car. He fixed what the mechanic told her he had fixed, not sure if they scammed everyone but a single Asian young lady taking her car in alone was a target for sure.
hungary is not the only place where people are ruthless. It just sometimes seems so because not speaking the language is putting yourself up without a fight at times. Have to learn to relax, take your time to read all paperwork and ask questions even if it seems you are wasting time, never sign anything without first knowing what you are signing.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.... was ripped off on auto repairs so many times in Las Vegas, my husband got angry when he looked over her car. He fixed what the mechanic told her he had fixed, not sure if they scammed everyone but ...

Replacing parts with junkyard parts and charging for new occurs in HU.  What I do now is I mark components in a special way to see if they've been replaced.  I also buy my own parts and supply them to the mechanic so I know they've been replaced - I sometimes ask for the old parts back. I can often get parts for my older car a lot easier than some of the mechanics - especially if they are imported.

A couple of years ago I bought an electric chainsaw in Tesco and it went wrong after only 3 days. If it had only been a £10 item I would have just thrown it away and bought another new one but this time I took the thing back to Tesco. I was fully expecting to be offered either a refund or a replacement chainsaw but neither of those was an option they would consider. They wanted me to take the thing to another place in the town that does repairs. I was not willing to do that and eventually they agreed to send it to the service company themselves. I was without the chainsaw for 2 or 3 weeks of the coldest part of winter. Fortunately I still had a petrol chainsaw I could use to cut firewood.