Absolutely Anything Else

I remember way back when...

Mom used to say,"someday they will have pay tv".

We couldn't imgine how they would do that.

Maybe but a pay as you go box in your home. Like those meters they used to have in flats for gas.

Never imgined the internet.

I remember way back when...
Mom used to say,"someday they will have pay tv".
We couldn't imgine how they would do that.
Maybe but a pay as you go box in your home. Like those meters they used to have in flats for gas.
Never imgined the internet.
-@Marilyn Tassy

I remember looking at the some web pages of Amazon back in the mid-1990s and thinking, it's interesting technically but so what? All you could do is see images of the front of books. You still had to go to a shop to buy them if I remember correctly. I should have left my job and joined Amazon immediately.

I was just looking at my family tree. One ancestor is listed as a "coachman" and the attached note says he became a chauffeur. From horses to horseless carriages. A chap who was adaptable to change.

I'm in the UK now and they sometimes talk about road pricing. Pay per km. If anything is a vote loser, it's going to be that.

Having driven through Italy and paid the tolls, it's extraordinary. From say Genoa to Trieste, over 500km, it's  40+ EUR. Really pricey and the fuel price being so high, it looks like war on the motorist in Italy.

People are now dropping their broadband connection due to high pricing.  That seems extraordinary.

Yes, I slightly remember tolls in Italy.

I know in Switzerland we went through so many tunnels we stopped counting after 70 or so.

In the old commie days auto insurance was included in the cost of gas/petrol.

Coachman, interesting.

I don't know allot about the professions of my relations much.

Great-grandfather half owned a textile factory in Conn.

His son, my grand-father was a rebel and runaway, cut off from the family fotune, nly son who didn't wish to follow his father's footsteps. ( His 2 sisters however got it all without having to work in the business)

He was a horse and water boy when he was 14 in the US Army.

Later a sort of supervisor in a coal yard, and had been a lumerjack. Have an old photo of him with other lumberjacks and their mascot dog.

Ruysn relations were mentioned by name in a Ryusn museum in Poland, they made axle grease and were some sort of traveling salesmen. Their route went all over Austria, Hungary and Poland.

One grandfather was a handy man in Conn. who worked for himself. The Rysun one.

The ladies were all cooks for wealthy families, on both sides of the family tree.

You'd think it would be in my DNA to cook,but not really.

My husbands family work history is much more interesting.

One great-grandfather was super rich, his granny was his illiget love child.

He had a modern for the times cattle ranch in Hungary.

One of his prized bulls killed him by putting it's horn in his chest.

On his fathers side it seems they were people of leisure until WW11.

After that his father couldn't adjust to being a working stiff. Drank and went to gents clubs with any family money in the house.

After his parents divorced his father got it together and remarried.Stopped drinking and maried a Jewish lady and changed his religion to hers.

He was a driver. Had his freedom to drive all over Hungary as a personal driver for business men. Stayed in hotels and had allot of time off. Sort of like his former life but making money .

My husband was a driver for a few years here in Hungary, that was in is DNA.

His mom's father was a high ranking Budapest police office.

He bought and trained all the horses used in the police force.Purchasing agent.

His mom grew up in a decent house that the dept. paid for until her father got ill and died. Had TB.

After that hard times.

Having driven through Italy and paid the tolls, it's extraordinary. From say Genoa to Trieste, over 500km, it's 40+ EUR. Really pricey and the fuel price being so high, it looks like war on the motorist in Italy.

People are now dropping their broadband connection due to high pricing. That seems extraordinary.
-@fluffy2560

The prices are similar to what we pay here in Portugal for a km on many of our motorways. Thanks to that they are not congested and in a very good state of repair. For longer trips I usually pay the price, especially if the alternative would take much longer.

I wouldn't drop my high speed internet, but I won't pay for TV. The TV channels comes with my Internet and phone contract, but the version without TV is the same price as with TV. Looks like Vodafone know what modern TV is worth .

The prices are similar to what we pay here in Portugal for a km on many of our motorways. Thanks to that they are not congested and in a very good state of repair. For longer trips I usually pay the price, especially if the alternative would take much longer.

I wouldn't drop my high speed internet, but I won't pay for TV. The TV channels comes with my Internet and phone contract, but the version without TV is the same price as with TV. Looks like Vodafone know what modern TV is worth .
-@nz7521137

We pay a flat rate in Hungary for a country wide highway/motorway fee or we can pay per county. It's cheaper to pay the county fee for year if you only travel between two points  like Budapest and Balaton (crosses 3 counties - 5K HUF per annum per county 15K HUF).

We pay 13K HUF a month for the "triple play" which is internet, phone and mostly rubbish TV channels. I'd be OK if they cut the price in half or by two thirds and removed the phone and the TV. Neither is much use.  I rather go for a much higher speed like 1 Gbps and maybe 2/3rd the price.     We can watch TV over the Internet and we have more or less unlimited mobile calls between us.  Mrs F and the kids are watching TV sometimes.  I don't watch it at all.  Feel like I'm paying for nothing.

@fluffy2560 The big question is whether you consider the road tolls adequate or not. Here in Portugal they are a bit expensive and so I try the optimize my time over costs.

I pay about EUR 36 per month for fast internet (fibre into the apartment), phone (free calls to many countries from 9pm to 9am and on weekends/public holidays) and TV (lots of channels but mostly rubbish). I consider this very good compared to Germany, where Internet speeds are low in many areas.

@fluffy2560 The big question is whether you consider the road tolls adequate or not. Here in Portugal they are a bit expensive and so I try the optimize my time over costs.
I pay about EUR 36 per month for fast internet (fibre into the apartment), phone (free calls to many countries from 9pm to 9am and on weekends/public holidays) and TV (lots of channels but mostly rubbish). I consider this very good compared to Germany, where Internet speeds are low in many areas.
-@nz7521137

Depends what you mean adequate. Or sufficient? But for what? Most of my trips are local. If it's too expensive, it'll push traffic back onto local roads.

I'd rather they put 10 HUF on a litre of fuel and get rid of the vignettes and enforcement completely. The more you use your vehicle, the more you pay.  Trucks are another matter.

The triple play Internet/TV/phone in Portugal says about the same cost as HU but we don't get free calls to other places. We mainly use our landline for incoming calls to the house and we call each other free on the mobiles.

I'd rather they put 10 HUF on a litre of fuel and get rid of the vignettes and enforcement completely. The more you use your vehicle, the more you pay.  Trucks are another matter.

The triple play Internet/TV/phone in Portugal says about the same cost as HU but we don't get free calls to other places. We mainly use our landline for incoming calls to the house and we call each other frrree on the mobiles.
-@fluffy2560

Regarding the 10 HUF I guess you are right. I think the toll system in Portugal is easier to use than that in Hungary.

Many people in Portugal call each other using a messenger and not phone. The free calls (even to all mobile phones in the US and Canada) are a very good feature and we use it. There is no such thing in e.g. Germany.

I'd rather they put 10 HUF on a litre of fuel and get rid of the vignettes and enforcement completely. The more you use your vehicle, the more you pay. Trucks are another matter.

The triple play Internet/TV/phone in Portugal says about the same cost as HU but we don't get free calls to other places. We mainly use our landline for incoming calls to the house and we call each other frrree on the mobiles.
-@fluffy2560
Regarding the 10 HUF I guess you are right. I think the toll system in Portugal is easier to use than that in Hungary.

Many people in Portugal call each other using a messenger and not phone. The free calls (even to all mobile phones in the US and Canada) are a very good feature and we use it. There is no such thing in e.g. Germany.
-@nz7521137

We use WhatsApp for some calls but as it's owned by Facebook, I don't trust it that much. I am sure they're listening in an scraping data to bombard you with advertising.   They know too much.

The motorway vignette is not hard to use in Hungary. I just don't want to pay over the odds for it!   

Question is where the money goes. They've been promising to finish the motorway around Budapest for years.  On my side, there's no motorway encircling the city.   It's supposed to pass within about 5km of my house.  It would be useful for us if we wanted to go North for some reason.   Right now we have to drive through the burbs to get to the Simpson's bridge.

Our monthly cable here in Budapest is rather reasonable.

I don't know exactly the amount, I don't handle the bills but it's like 5,700 per month.

That includes internet, tv and a land line phone. our cost is low because the phone calls out cost extra . If someone calls us, it taken out on their side not ours.

We don't call anyone but it's nice to have th landline just in case we need it.

We have a cell phone but have no phone contract. We buy time on it just in case we need to call anyone locally.

I've used it a few times to call the states but it isn't really cost effective to do that.

I called my US storege co. a few times, we were put on hold so long that the 5,000 left on the phone ran out. That's frustrating.

We usually put 10,000 on the phone and it's good for a long time.

We really never take our phone out with us.

Not making any big deals where we need to be in constant contact with our broker.

I know 4 years ago in the states our son was paying over $80. per month for internet and Netflix only. He also used a pay as you go cell phone. He had roll over mins. I know when we left the states he still had abut 3,000 mins left on his phone credit.

I still think Hungary is a bargin, at least with the cable bills.

I wish it was cost effective to go to the spa.

Now that's something useful.

Went to the spa yesterday since the forecast is rain most of this week.

Really wasn't very busy, not packed with people.

I think because of the cost people usually only go when the weather is really hot, not a so-so sort of day like yesterday was.

It almost felt like early autum at the spa, open lap lanes and all.

I think Hungary is still VERY cheap, telephone, gas, electricity (having said that the internet is a bit on the high side (I do not why). When living there (in Hungary) utilities are cheap and as I understand they are still cheap (relatively). Of course bills in Turkey are much lower (I do not understand, but that it is), for water we pay less than a EURO pm, having said that you can not drink the water (19 LTR per bottle)_ so we order for coffee/cooking etc (EUR 12 pm). Technically not needed, but...

Electricity max EUR 10 pm, gas (for cooking EUR 1 or 2 pm), telephone is more expensive but still cheap (we have 2 phones max EUR 10 pm (per phone), internet (100 MB is EUR 12 pm)

Having said that comparing Hungary to most EU countries VERY cheap in basic energy.

In a way I am jealeaous (being Dutch)  (but in Turkey even MUCH cheaper)

@cdw057 Of course I am a bit drunk as usual, but not completely stupid

@cdw057 Of course I am a bit drunk as usual, but not completely stupid
-@cdw057

Having going against my current health mandate, I will answer you since I alone downed an entire bottle of bubbly wine.

What the heck, sometimes it's fun!

i may of lost the plot but all is good.

Today being our fugal self's we managed to spend less then planned at Tesco.That's great.

My 4th living BFF from my teen years is planning on buy a condo in Vegas.

ATM she and her husband have many acres of land in AZ.

Due to health issues they are considering going back to the ,"big city" where things are easier to access.

Never know, we amy become neighbors at some point in time.

Not sure what is going on in the USA ATM.

My half sister livies in IN and hasn't not had any power for mre then 3 days.

I count us lucky here in the EU.

In any case I

feel any negaitve issues that could happen in the USA will soner or later effect the entire world.

Keep undates on Turkey coming, we find it very intersting.

Hungarian men should get over their OV cum Fidesz propaganda and defensiveness of being thought gay. It could be a compliment!

Anyone gay usually has accurate gaydar and can easily tell who is gay, straight or bi.

And, it's no secret, I can tell already tell you OV is no-one's pin up - gay or otherwise. Except Trump. Or Putin. Or Lukashenko. Etc.
-@fluffy2560
Aside from the language aspect of "csokolom", which I sometimes use with older ladies, I think that sexual preferences are a very private matter and are nothing to be proud or ashamed of. I am also not a fan of too open display of such preferences in public (maybe a result of living for years in the MENA region).

Considering that nations want to be able to survive in the long run I understand that they have a preference for M-F relationships and reproduction, which is fortunately still the majority to my knowledge.
-@nz7521137

Babilon Ur started it.

Of course it's a private matter.   But then again, LGBTQ+ bashing is just another convenient hate target in Hungary, Russia and other places.  And it's brought into the open by legislation. So it's no longer a private matter.  It's reversed the rights of a section of society.

What they have to do in Hungary is accept migration. It's just the nature of world changes.  They don't have a choice.  None of the incentives like tax breaks and mini-vans have worked.  People still leaving the country and the birth rate is still way too low.

BTW, there's an interview George Birnbaum (Finkelstein's protege) here.   He doesn't say if he feels guilty for the divisions he's architected although he alludes to looking for commonality.  Nice words but he's still churning out the same divisive product.

What they have to do in Hungary is accept migration. It's just the nature of world changes. They don't have a choice. None of the incentives like tax breaks and mini-vans have worked. People still leaving the country and the birth rate is still way too low.

-@fluffy2560

Indeed. They should take France and Germany as examples where migration has solved most problems.

What they have to do in Hungary is accept migration. It's just the nature of world changes. They don't have a choice. None of the incentives like tax breaks and mini-vans have worked. People still leaving the country and the birth rate is still way too low.

-@fluffy2560
Indeed. They should take France and Germany as examples where migration has solved most problems.
-@nz7521137

Yes, while I'm critical of Agent Merkel over her involvement with Putin, I do have to say admitting 1M migrants is almost a stroke of genius when all around were putting up the barriers.  Couple of generations and integration will be complete.

My own country is still bleating and putting up obstacles. I see it more like the Borg - we'll add the migrants distinctiveness to our own.  Immigration is how the US, Canada, Australia, NZ were and are made.

Mrs F and I have two kids and we get  no financial incentives of significance.  If we had three, we would have done.  But we could only manage two as we became too old for it.     

OV is like the apocryphal King Canute.

Immigration is how the US, Canada, Australia, NZ were and are made.

-@fluffy2560

OV and the majority of the leaders of the above countries are very much against illegal immigration and they are in favour of legal, wanted immigration. There are lots of immigrants legally living in Hungary. Unfortunately, the EU leadership - in alignment with the current US government - are promoting illegal immigration. The EU is even bending EU legislation for it. Normally every EU country is obliged to maintain its outside EU borders and that is what OV did. He was bashed for that. When Poland did the same at the Belarusian border all was OK. What hypocrites.

Germany has and does allow millions of migrants to enter the country without preparing the facilities (housing, transport, medical) of Germany for this mass immigration in any way. I understand why so many Syrians, Iraqis, Afghani and lately Ukrainians need and want to come to Europe, but it should happen within the legal framework of the EU and the individual EU countries.

From a French perspective it might be a great idea if the UK government wanted to integrate all those migrants that are currently waiting in France to cross The Channel.

I like a world where legal migration is easily possible and where illegal migration is - as far as possible - prevented.

Immigration is how the US, Canada, Australia, NZ were and are made.

-@fluffy2560
OV and the majority of the leaders of the above countries are very much against illegal immigration and they are in favour of legal, wanted immigration. Unfortunately, the EU leadership - in alignment with the current US government - are promoting illegal immigration. The EU is even bending EU legislation for it. Normally every EU country is obliged to maintain its outside EU borders and that is what OV did. He was bashed for that. When Poland did the same at the Belarusian border all was OK. What hypocrites.

Germany has and does allow millions of migrants to enter the country without preparing the facilities of Germany for this mass immigration in any way. I understand why so many Syrians, Iraqis, Afghani and lately Ukrainians need and want to come to Europe, but it should happen within the legal framework of the EU and the individual EU countries.

I like a world where legal migration is easily possible and where illegal migration is - as far as possible - prevented.
-@nz7521137

"Illegal immigration"? 

That's an ongoing and worrying change in the narrative. We used to call them asylum seekers and refugees but the phrase being pushed now is "illegal immigration".  We all need to remember that refugees and asylum seekers are not illegal migrants.  That group is legitimately seeking protection.  There is nothing illegal in crossing a border to seek help.   Hungary and everyone else signed up to the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees.

In my own  country, there are no legal migration routes available.  The minister in charge admitted that. Hence the only way to reach the place is in a  small boat.  It's an outrageous situation.

Poland is also concerned with Russian aligned infiltrators from Belarus so it's not about migrants so much as war in Ukraine. More so now Wagner is based there. 

But in any case, Florida was doing something similar to Belarus with its asymmetric migrant based warfare.  De Santis was flying migrants to New York and dumping them there.  It's a cheap shot. I bet none of those dumped migrants were of Cuban origin.

My family were immigrants to the US but they did it legally, waited it out and paid their own fare over.

They worked and never got welfare, well there was no welfare system in place back then. It was good luck you're on your own.

My husband was 23, no English at all and no money with him when he arrived in NYC.

The chairty group IRC I think was the name, paid his airfare over and paid for 2 weeks in a rat infested hotel room.

He was given a list of places to apply for work. He had his machinst skills but many of his friends had just left school and had no skills at all.

They were put out of their hotel rooms when their rent was due.

My husband took several in with him and helped them out until they found small jobs. He feed them etc.

I do think there should be a welfare system for those in real need but living for decades on it is not fair to others who work hard.

Nicknames, another topic, we knew several bi/gay HU men in Ca. and Hawaii.

Just people who happened to be around and knew some of the same people we knew. No issues ever with the straight HU men being upset with them for being gay. They might of teased them with nicknames but never anything evil or cruel. They also called them their nicknames to their faces, so no back stabbing going on.

My sister got in more troube giving her gay female friend a nickname then anyone in the HU community.

Her friend had a "thing" for my sister, sister was not interested in more then being only friends. After a few years the gay women found her own partner and their friendship was fine, mmy sister got on with everyone.

Her gay friends name was Diane, my sister had nicknames fr all her friends and called Diane, "Dyke Ann". She made the mistake once of saying it to her face and they had a fight over it. All forgiven in the end though, the gay couple had a wake for my sister at their house and were both really broken up over her passing.

I don't think anyone with any intelligence at all would seriously hurt someone just because they are gay. Most striaght people with a mind wuld say they are suffering enough without any extra help.

My husband allowed several people, sometimes 3 at a time to bunk in his hotel room with him. He even gave up half his bed to a couple of females, nothing personal went on with them, more like little sisters.

He took English lessons after a long day at work, he quit when he realized they spend most of the time speaking in Spanish.

Waste of his time. He purchased records to learn on his own and read dictionaries.

The thing is with illegal immigration in the US many people take advatage of the system. They have children out of wedlock and do not report their partners are working under the table as either day workers, landscape workers or whatever.

I know years ago we moved to another apt. We drove by the Home Depot where the illegals waited for day work. We asked how much they charged per hour and it was far highrer then min. wage plus it was going to be all cash without being taxed. We didn't hire them.

The women have babies and get 100% free medical care, dental, housing money and food stamps.

They are better off then your average working class American who has a dual income with 2 people working full time and paying taxes, Americans have to pay for their own health care,baby-sitting and housing. It's no wnder there is resentment with illegals.

Auto insurnace is another thing, it's very expensive in the US but illegals find cars with the help of small shops that are not registered and they often drive without the proper papers or insurance on the car. Cheap throw away cars, if they crash they dump the car and leave unless they are hurt then they get free care and no one can sue them for damages.

Hungarians we knew way back when either worked hard and got real jpbs or they palyed the system too.

I will say 50 years on that those who played the system usually got on the wrong side after many years and those who worked hard now are well off in the US.

There are a few who played the system and are just fine now but those are few and far between.

Some were deported after many years of scamming the system, I mean like 30 years, they had loads of time to get themselves together but they chose the easy, lazy way.

That's an ongoing and worrying change in the narrative. We used to call them asylum seekers and refugees but the phrase being pushed now is "illegal immigration". We all need to remember that refugees and asylum seekers are not illegal migrants. That group is legitimately seeking protection. There is nothing illegal in crossing a border to seek help.  Hungary and everyone else signed up to the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees.
-@fluffy2560

Maybe then it is time to read the convention completely. It doesn't provide the right to immigrate any country of the migrant's choice. Under the convention there are defined criteria that classify a person as a refugee. Lack of job opportunities isn't amongst them.

I have nothing against people that want to make the best of their lives by leaving home and going somewhere else. But, they have to formally request entrance to their destination and the destination has a right to reject the request. It's a tough world.

But, maybe we meander back to the local language in Hungary.

@fluffy2560

You give too much credit on that what politicians, media, etc... says.

They are quite meaningless: either follow suit what the general population think: or became some "rule of law" / "rights of X" dictatorship, like Canada.

But this not working here: if government did not want something similar what Prigozsin did better to listen what people think about things and act accordingly. This is East Europe.

As for changing times:

Simply thoughts on the same matter are changing, as do trends, ethics, what is acceptable, polite, etc

• Like in merely 300 years ago the color code was the exact opposite: for girls: blue, for boys: pink/ red
• Merely 120-150 years ago the very young boys were still (originates from a much older time) dressed in girls clothes (cc. before 4 years old) for practical reasons

Times change.

Only conservatives stupid enought to think what was between cc. 1812 - 1962 is the only possible way to go like there was no history before that. Or no religious-ethics before monotheist ones.

Or when people get shocked when get from me something like: "Since the new religions" - eg: Christianity/ Islam

There were a world before that with very different ethics and traditions: many was the exact opposite.

When my HU husband left Hungary, he headed from Yugoslavia to Italy.

Spent about 10 months in a refugee camp while Interpol did a background check.

He attended meeting where reps from several different countries came to the camp to recruit skilled workers to their countries.

Many western European countries, Canada, Australia and the US.

He was a trained machinst and his skill was in high demand back then.

He could just about pick and choice any country he wanted to move to.

The showed films about daily life in each country etc.just to give them a taste of what to expect.

He was dealt some bad luck and broke his arm while in the camp.

Due to the camp being located in the boonies, the hospital couldn't operate on his arm. It was broken for 8 month. They just put it in a half cast and he had to wait to find out about surgery.

It was too complicated for the local medical team.

He was set for surgry, after all that time when his friend up in Sweden heard about it. The guy came to Italy to see my husband and said he didn't like the looks of the hospital and that my husband should go to Sweden if he ever wanted to use his arm again.

His friend picked up the cast out of the trash, it had been removed for surgery the next morning. He wrapped my husband's arm back up with tape and put him on a train to Sweden.

In Sweden they operated on his arm and even found him a physical theapist who spoke Hungarian. He was delayed by 2 years getting out of the refuguee camp system due to his arm.

He said overall people with skills usually left the camps sooner then those without skills.

Familes left the camp sooner as well while single unskilled people waited for countires to except them on a quota system. No one really wanted unskilled workers arriving. The only thing they had going for them was that most were young and could learn something.

They were housed in Italy in old military barracks which were decaying with just beds inside , men in one building, women in others. Familes were kept together.

In Sweden they gave him a modern moblie home unit to live in, a maid came in to clean up. Not sure if that was normal there or because of his injury that they helped him so much there.

He had lost his luggage in his escape and Sweden gave him a bit of funds to replace his clothing.

They were more then kind there. He worked also to support himself in Sweden with his arm in a cast. Had to do light work, he got a job helping in a hotel that was run by a Hungarian lady. He did small errands here and there and helped the barman.

The women was very sad to see him go when he returned to Paris to start the process of getting out of Europe once again. ( Later he was sorry he left Sweden, just too cold for him)

Most people didn't have such a hassle getting to their chosen countires who were skilled.

If not for his arm break things might of been smoother for him.

He says he left HUngary not for any big reasns other then looking for adventure and not seeing himself living the same lives as his parents did. Working, getting married and forgetting having fun in life.

There was a wave of his friends all leaving Hungary for the west and he seems to have just gone along with the crowd. He had gotten bored with the downtown boy lifestyle too and wanted more out of life.

Less then 2 years later though in the US, that same arm rebroke.. Life is never easy.

I'll never forget the look on my mothers face when I told her I had met a guy from Hungary.

She was not too happy to say the least. She wanted her girls to marry someone she thought had family to help support us etc. Not a refugee from a communist country. She had raised us better then that, so she said words to that effect. ( strange thing is her SIL was from Hungray and she and her HU parents had baby-sat my mother for years, she loved them all too)

No matter to me. When she first met him she pulled me aside and said ,

He looks like a blank-blank refugee" I laughed and told her yes, I know, that's what he is!

For years she wasn't thrilled but kept quiet about our relationship. Years later she was begging my husband to find Hungarian men for her other daughters. She fell in love with my husband and was happy I had met him. Just took many years for her to warm up to him.

He became her confidant and trusted friend. She wouldn't make a move after she became a widow without first running it past my husband for his two cents.

That's an ongoing and worrying change in the narrative. We used to call them asylum seekers and refugees but the phrase being pushed now is "illegal immigration". We all need to remember that refugees and asylum seekers are not illegal migrants. That group is legitimately seeking protection. There is nothing illegal in crossing a border to seek help. Hungary and everyone else signed up to the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees.
-@fluffy2560
Maybe then it is time to read the convention completely. It doesn't provide the right to immigrate any country of the migrant's choice. Under the convention there are defined criteria that classify a person as a refugee. Lack of job opportunities isn't amongst them.

I have nothing against people that want to make the best of their lives by leaving home and going somewhere else. But, they have to formally request entrance to their destination and the destination has a right to reject the request. It's a tough world.

But, maybe we meander back to the local language in Hungary.
-@nz7521137

Not a lot of time today to engage on the UNCHR etc but determining a person's status is a screening process. It's not pushback or drowning them in the Med, Salvini style or convicting them as criminals as in the OV methodology.  Anyway, EU majority voting means there will be a lot more of them here. I'm OK with that.

BTW, I see Chinese guys all over our village. They are buying up the place. I like that there is diversity. They seem to like playing football so already they've upped the quality of the place. They walk past my house on the way to and from the football fields. Next time they come past I'll ask them what they are doing here.  And my neighbour is intent on selling his house to Chinese buyers. Seems to think it'll be a bonanza.

I really don't know any details but was told OV is bringing in allot of foreign workers.

Women truck drivers from India , Chinese people and people from Africa.

We noticed several groups of men in Indian style clothing inside our loacl Lidl just last week.

Husband said they are coming in to work and probably getting their airfare paid to come here as well as some free housing. Most are living outside in the countryside and not really noticed much.

The jobs are not big money jobs, jobs he said most Hungarians don't want to take.

Think the pay is 150,000 per month.

@fluffy2560
You give too much credit on that what politicians, media, etc... says.
They are quite meaningless: either follow suit what the general population think: or became some "rule of law" / "rights of X" dictatorship, like Canada.

-@sjbabilon5

Don't think so.

Unless i'm living in a parallel universe, the politicians here and everywhere else make the laws which have direct impact on (a) sector(s) of the population whether that's LGBT+ or refugees. 

Credit is due where credit is due. I'm quite willing to give OV and Co and his brainwashed videki a credit on their fascist credentials.

I really don't know any details but was told OV is bringing in allot of foreign workers.
Women truck drivers from India , Chinese people and people from Africa.
We noticed several groups of men in Indian style clothing inside our loacl Lidl just last week.
Husband said they are coming in to work and probably getting their airfare paid to come here as well as some free housing. Most are living outside in the countryside and not really noticed much.
The jobs are not big money jobs, jobs he said most Hungarians don't want to take.
Think the pay is 150,000 per month.
-@Marilyn Tassy

So much for cutting immigration.   

Hereabouts it's groups of Chinese people. I presume they all live in the same place as a group or in multiple houses.

As I've said in the past, I've seen them having BBQs in the forest.  No problem with that of course, just surprised to see them there.

They'll be working on university island or the railway to Belgrade or yet another battery factory.

Very rare to see an Indian, Bangladeshi or African origin person around here.

Not a lot of time today to engage on the UNCHR etc but determining a person's status is a screening process. It's not pushback or drowning them in the Med, Salvini style or convicting them as criminals as in the OV methodology. Anyway, EU majority voting means there will be a lot more of them here. I'm OK with that.

BTW, I see Chinese guys all over our village. They are buying up the place. I like that there is diversity. They seem to like playing football so already they've upped the quality of the place. They walk past my house on the way to and from the football fields. Next time they come past I'll ask them what they are doing here. And my neighbour is intent on selling his house to Chinese buyers. Seems to think it'll be a bonanza.
-@fluffy2560

I am sure that most to all of these people from Asia are in Hungary (or in Portugal for that matter) legally, meaning with the permission of the state. In Portugal people form the Indian subcontinent are often employed in manual agricultural labour (or the meat industry and the like), which over-educated Europeans don't want to do anymore. I don't know many people that are against legal forms of immigration (but I understand the Swiss to a degree).

BTW: The 1951 Refugee Convention is a key legal document and defines a refugee as: “someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”.

Many EU countries are in the process of kicking out migrants from Africa and the Middle East to make room for white Christian people from the Ukraine. That's not fair. Overall, I think that if you want the outside EU borders open then we should also allow the migrants to move to the EU country they want to go to. Distributing people against their will is definitely no solution.

Another BTW: Sweden has started to wake up to the results of being "do-gooders" for such a long time.

But maybe back to the need for Hungarian in Hungary. It is definitely not needed for construction workers on a short to mid term contract.

Not a lot of time today to engage on the UNCHR etc but determining a person's status is a screening process. It's not pushback or drowning them in the Med, Salvini style or convicting them as criminals as in the OV methodology. Anyway, EU majority voting means there will be a lot more of them here. I'm OK with that.

BTW, I see Chinese guys all over our village. They are buying up the place. I like that there is diversity. They seem to like playing football so already they've upped the quality of the place. They walk past my house on the way to and from the football fields. Next time they come past I'll ask them what they are doing here. And my neighbour is intent on selling his house to Chinese buyers. Seems to think it'll be a bonanza.
-@fluffy2560
I am sure that most to all of these people from Asia are in Hungary (or in Portugal for that matter) legally, meaning with the permission of the state. In Portugal people form the Indian subcontinent are often employed in manual agricultural labour (or the meat industry and the like), which over-educated Europeans don't want to do anymore. I don't know many people that are against legal forms of immigration (but I understand the Swiss to a degree).

BTW: The 1951 Refugee Convention is a key legal document and defines a refugee as: “someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”.

Many EU countries are in the process of kicking out migrants from Africa and the Middle East to make room for white Christian people from the Ukraine. That's not fair. Overall, I think that if you want the outside EU borders open then we should also allow the migrants to move to the EU country they want to go to. Distributing people against their will is definitely no solution.

Another BTW: Sweden has started to wake up to the results of being "do-gooders" for such a long time.
-@nz7521137

Legal migrants are of course legal by definition.  But refugees are of course not illegal migrants.  We should agree on that at least.

Kicking out Africans and Middle Eastern people in favour of Ukrainians is a statement completely without foundation. A non-sequitur if I ever heard one.

I do agree however that refugees should be able to go to the country of their choice but in the absence of a preference, then the distribution can be organised according to the pool and the member state's offer.  UK still has migrants even though it's not in the EU. In fact, it's worse because the UK has no mechanism to return them to France since Brexit. 

BTW, Sweden is being blackmailed by Erdogan currently over the PKK and NATO.  I suggest Erdogan look to his own house if we wanted peace with  the Kurds.  I see there's been conviction on terrorist financing in Sweden, presumably to visibly show Erdogan "positive progress".

UK still has migrants even though it's not in the EU. In fact, it's worse because the UK has no mechanism to return them to France since Brexit.

-@fluffy2560

In your opinion, why would UK need a "mechanism to return them to France" if the migrants show a clear preference for being in the UK?

Your argument is that every migrant has the right to move to any country of their choice and - I assume - be provided with what they need for a decent life. So if many happen to like the UK then the UK should deal with it. And I think that this is true for Germany as well. Instead of criticizing e.g. Italy Germany should take in more migrants. And if it costs money, raise the taxes.

  UK still has migrants even though it's not in the EU. In fact, it's worse because the UK has no mechanism to return them to France since Brexit.  -@fluffy2560

  In your opinion, why would UK need a "mechanism to return them to France" if the migrants show a clear preference for being in the UK?   Your argument is that every migrant has the right to move to any country of their choice and - I assume - be provided with what they need for a decent life. So if many happen to like the UK then the UK should deal with it. And I think that this is true for Germany as well. Instead of criticizing e.g. Italy Germany should take in more migrants. And if it costs money, raise the taxes.

  -@nz7521137

Formatting changed when the thread was moved....

We are talking about the EU mostly but just to clear up matters.....

UK is no longer in the EU unfortunately so isn't part of any EU wide majority voting system on migrant policies and has no say other than at its own borders. Before that, economic migrants were to stay in France as that was considered a safe country within the EU. All that was lost in Brexit. UK now pays France to police its own French borders. Hard to believe.

Moreover, the policy in the UK also has no mechanism to handle and grant applications for economic migrants. It doesn't exist. Literally the government minister in charge said that.

It's not the same as the US which issues 50,000 diversity visas each year.

Economic migrants only choice is to cross the channel in small boats. 90% of claims for asylum and refugee status are approved. The situation has descended into a farce. It is planned that those rejected will be deported to Rwanda at a cost of £160K per individual. There are only 500 places there and 1000s arrive every week. And the government loses in the courts every time. Obviously this is uneconomic. It would be cheaper to integrate them into the UK and put them in the workforce to be economically active than deport them.

Some British people even say, if the government give them £160K, they'd leave the country. I can see their point. I'd go back to the UK, collect my £160K and come back here. No problem.

Essentially if there was an cost effective way for economic migrants to reach the UK, then that would help reduce the workload. I quite like the idea of the diversity visa system of the USA being applied in Europe. UK could easily do that. And so could the EU.  They could then be pooled - as is being proposed. Maybe a bit like Canada where there's incentives for provincial immigration.

Hungary itself could do this kind of thing but OV's anti-immigration MO is unworkable in the long term if he wants to maintain or increase the population. Looks like Hungary is losing its people - birth rate too low, elderly increasing, people leaving, deaths from COVID all adds up. That stats don't look good for 2050. We probably won't care by then but our liberal minded kids might. But even they don't want to live in a fascist utopia run by the likes of OV and his cronies. They already talk about leaving for opportunities elsewhere.

Hello everyone,

Please note that I have moved some off-topic posts to this thread starting 8214 - end.

All the best

Bhavna

My husband and his friends were really and truly refugees in the early 1970's.

Because the country they left was communist, they quailfied as refugee status.

Not sure one can really call themselves a refugee unless the UN has declared your home country as an enemy of the state.

Just like the 1956'sers, they were refugees .

I'm not so sure about Sweden these days.

Long tale really do not wish to divulge too much personal info on my friend as she is still dealing with immigration in Sweden.

I know the Swedish immgration agents were trying to be liberal and kind with her. When she heard some upsetting news, they actually brought in a fellow American who works in Sweden in immigration to tell her he wasn't having it.

Sweds didn't want to look like the bad guys.

She entered Sweden over 2 years ago from Hungary.

Had lived in HU for over 5 years.

Never worked in HUngary because she was a caretaker to a relative of hers who was also American.

They never had perm residents in HU, just yearly permits to stay in which they had to prove income etc. every year to qualfity to stay in HUngary.

Well, the relation passed and so did the income from the US to support her.

Her temp. resident permit had expired so she got on a flight to Sweden and got married to a Swed she had known online for awhile.

They do seem really in love and are comfotable with each other.

She has no ties in the US any longer.

Even with her marriage, Sweden is trying slowly but surely to deport her out of Sweden.

Like I mentioned they got a fellow American to start the paperwork and he upset her allot.

He told her there is no such thing as an American refugee.

Long story again they are dealing with it, filling papers, hired an immigration lawyer and trying to go about daily life without losing their minds.

Either one of them, she nor her husband would have a break down if they were to be forced apart.

Really sad although legally it sounds like she entered Sweden on false intentions since her 180 days were long past due before she got married.

Sometimes we should allow people to slide through the system and go after the real crimmies not those who made a silly mistake and had some bad luck.

It seems her legal marriage is even in question , the immigration doesn't take it as real.

As far as I know it is even if it started out as just online friends.

Hungary itself could do this kind of thing but OV's anti-immigration MO is unworkable in the long term if he wants to maintain or increase the population. Looks like Hungary is losing its people - birth rate too low, elderly increasing, people leaving, deaths from COVID all adds up. That stats don't look good for 2050. We probably won't care by then but our liberal minded kids might. But even they don't want to live in a fascist utopia run by the likes of OV and his cronies. They already talk about leaving for opportunities elsewhere.
-@fluffy2560

As far as I see (!) Hungary isn't anti immigration or anti foreigner. Legal immigration has always been possible, but many migrants are simply moving on, because the pay is better elsewhere (e.g. in Austria or Germany). Audi HR can tell many stories about that. And I fully understand that a country is NOT looking for any immigration, but only immigration that is good for the country. That's why there are so many visa types for people with money or with special skills. Basically nobody needs more people that cannot financially look after themselves.

Sweden has tried almost uncontrolled immigration and has - it appear - given up.

My friend in Sweden's husband is getting disablity to liive on. Perhaps that is against her with immigration there?

They encourage even her husband to work, they even give a list of open jobs for him.

They just do not force people to take jobs if they have an excuse not to do them.

She can't work there yet but they have told her once she is legal , if that ever happens , they will pay her to go to school and even help her open her own business if she wishes.

On one hand they make her feel almost at home and on the other they filed deportation letters.

They may be seeing her and her husband as a burden to their society.

She has not felt any sort of racism there either. She is not white.

Other none whites are racist against her but not the local Sweds. Very strange.

She thinks they may see her as competition for benefits?

@Marilyn Tassy What you write about Sweden read a bit like what I hear about Germany. Migrants coming to Germany are well taken care of, but not so many are suitable for the German labour market. The best off at the moment are Ukrainians, because they are treated like unemployed Germans. While other migrants are treated like refugees and have to live on a much smaller budget.

Germany has taken in millions of migrants over the past few years, but it has not been able to significantly increase the labour market and the housing, education and medical facilities. So there are areas where less than 10% of the children entering public school speak German. Parents with good income can send their children to private schools, but - as usual - the other ones have to pay the price of diminished education.

There are lots of do-gooders (for migrants) that simply don't care what damage they do to the local - not so well off -  population. I guess hat is the case everywhere. But I hear that in Sweden and the Netherlands the tide is already turning and Hungary always wanted a very controlled migration.

As far as I see (!) Hungary isn't anti immigration or anti foreigner. Legal immigration has always been possible, but many migrants are simply moving on, because the pay is better elsewhere (e.g. in Austria or Germany). Audi HR can tell many stories about that. And I fully understand that a country is NOT looking for any immigration, but only immigration that is good for the country. That's why there are so many visa types for people with money or with special skills. Basically nobody needs more people that cannot financially look after themselves.

Sweden has tried almost uncontrolled immigration and has - it appear - given up.
-@nz7521137

Hungary's (OV's) attitude is anti-anyone who isn't living a life within his version of Judeo-Christianity.  OV himself said it in multiple speeches he's anti-mixed race - that seems to include exclusion of Jewish and Roma people.  He promotes himself as defending Christian values.  It might be just a convenient model for exclusion for retaining power in the same vein as anti-Soros etc.  Hungary has form on antisemitism. 

But whatever happens, if foreigners come here for whatever reason (like me), it's inevitable there will be mixed peoples.   I am sure the 1M migrants Merkel let in are already integrating with the "native" German people.  Couple of generations and no-one will know the difference.  I don't think Merkel filtered the people, just took them as one group.

My friend in Sweden's husband is getting disablity to liive on. Perhaps that is against her with immigration there?
They encourage even her husband to work, they even give a list of open jobs for him.
They just do not force people to take jobs if they have an excuse not to do them.
She can't work there yet but they have told her once she is legal , if that ever happens , they will pay her to go to school and even help her open her own business if she wishes.
On one hand they make her feel almost at home and on the other they filed deportation letters.
They may be seeing her and her husband as a burden to their society.
She has not felt any sort of racism there either. She is not white.
Other none whites are racist against her but not the local Swedes. Very strange.
She thinks they may see her as competition for benefits?
-@Marilyn Tassy

I think Swedes are brought up not to be racist and to show hospitality to newcomers.  There will be racism but not so much amongst the general population I'd have thought.   

Worst place I've seen racism is on a specific Caribbean island and in Nigeria.  In Nigeria, it's all very clan based, arguably not racist. 

Caribbean was an absolute shocker - blatant anti-white sentiment by some people there on specific islands in one country. 

On other islands, not even a whiff of it. 

Hungary's (OV's) attitude is anti-anyone who isn't living a life within his version of Judeo-Christianity. OV himself said it in multiple speeches he's anti-mixed race - that seems to include exclusion of Jewish and Roma people. He promotes himself as defending Christian values. It might be just a convenient model for exclusion for retaining power in the same vein as anti-Soros etc. Hungary has form on antisemitism.

But whatever happens, if foreigners come here for whatever reason (like me), it's inevitable there will be mixed peoples.  I am sure the 1M migrants Merkel let in are already integrating with the "native" German people. Couple of generations and no-one will know the difference. I don't think Merkel filtered the people, just took them as one group.
-@fluffy2560

As far as I ca see, Budapest and Vienna have a quite active Jewish community and OV doesn't have bad relationships with whoever is in the Israeli government. At least I never hear or read about the latter. I have a friend and colleague from Africa who is married to a Hungarian. They are very happy in Hungary. Their children are as well, but one went to France for better opportunities. I have nothing against defending Christian values, especially as Christians are the most prosecuted religious community in the world.

And, you are wrong about the over 1.5 million migrants Merkel let in. They are usually integrated into their own parallel societies. Currently there are violent clan fights between migrated Lebanese and Syrians in West Germany. I think you have little knowledge of what is going on in those main migrant destinations within Germany.

However, you will know the UK better than Germany and probably also know why you would like open and free immigration to the country. But, a country should be able to chose. If the UK wants more immigration then "go for it". If Hungary doesn't then, same thing. And the French should NOT hold up migrants on their way out. People like you would should support "freedom of movement".

My friend in Sweden's husband is getting disablity to liive on. Perhaps that is against her with immigration there?
They encourage even her husband to work, they even give a list of open jobs for him.
They just do not force people to take jobs if they have an excuse not to do them.
She can't work there yet but they have told her once she is legal , if that ever happens , they will pay her to go to school and even help her open her own business if she wishes.
On one hand they make her feel almost at home and on the other they filed deportation letters.
They may be seeing her and her husband as a burden to their society.
She has not felt any sort of racism there either. She is not white.
Other none whites are racist against her but not the local Swedes. Very strange.
She thinks they may see her as competition for benefits?
-@Marilyn Tassy

I think Swedes are brought up not to be racist and to show hospitality to newcomers. There will be racism but not so much amongst the general population I'd have thought. 

Worst place I've seen racism is on a specific Caribbean island and in Nigeria. In Nigeria, it's all very clan based, arguably not racist.

Caribbean was an absolute shocker - blatant anti-white sentiment by some people there on specific islands in one country.

On other islands, not even a whiff of it.
-@fluffy2560

There is racisim in the US.

I am learning about horrific things that happened even recently with black people in the US.

It really turns my stomach.

We lived on Maui in the mid 1970's, for the most part no one bothered us for being white but then again, I never pay much mind to stupid people unless they are directly in my face.

Had a couple of incounters there but I was young and never thought it was racisim.

My HU husband was expected like a brother by a large group of local Hawaiian guys. They treated him like a brother and were there for him if he ever needed anything.

That was mostly my experience in Hawaii too.

I had 2 uncomfortable experiences in the mid 90's on the Big Island, well rather 3 or 4 when I think about it.

Being called, "Howlie B****" while minding my own bees wax in a grocery store by a local women in line behind me for no reason.

Being chased by car by a local couple for making a legal lane chnage. Never though twice about it but for some reason they got mad that I passed them , used turning signals and just drove past them. All of a sudden they gun their engine to pass me, pull in front of my car and slam on their brakes. The women had to grab the man as he was about to get out of the car and head towards me. ( They each must of weighed in at over 300lbs so he wasn't moving too fast)For no reason at all except his ego got hurt because a white lady in a nicer car passed him.

My son went into downtown Hilo when we first moved there.

My husband dropped him off to hunt for a job.

He was 17, a tall white red headed teenager with long hair nearly down to his waist.

Skinny thing as well.

A car full of local adults pulled up to him and told him to get lost, if they ever saw him in town again, he would no longer have his nice long hair!!

He never told us what happened until we moved off the Island.

We thought he was just being a difficult teenager because he never wanted to leave the house for the next year.

My first day working in a salon my new co worker pulled me aside quickly and tried t get to know me. She was nice enough, rather scary at first, she was a Hapa/Howlie as they say. Half Mainlander( white) and half local. She asked about my ethnic background. I mentined to her I had some native American blood too.

A hard, stone faced local lady was waiting for me to cut her hair. We both could tell by the look on her face that she wasn't ahppy a white lady was going to cut her hair.

My co-worker joked with her saying words to the effect of, "No worries, she part Injun, she no gonna scalp you though"! My gosh what can anyone say to that?

Met some of the sweetest people over there and some of the most insane rudest ever.

My friend still in Hilo says it is very populated there now with s many mainlanders moving over.

Perhaps things have chanced for the better over there?

My friend is black however and doesn't see what I saw, probably never had such issues happen to her over there.

I was glad to leave HIlo, all that and then some within a years time was a bit much.

My husband has issues when he first came to NYC. A black man just spoke to him like he was an idiot not knowing English. My husband however is a smart person and although it was insulting to be treated like he had been, he forgave the man in his mind. He figured the man might of been put upon all his life and saw being rude and getting away with it towards a white man who couldn't talk back was revenge of sorts.

Sad world really.

We had a family rollerskating day in the 1980's with our son. The 3 of us skating in the park.

My husband was a very fashionable dressed rocker type guy. He was wearing some nice red tight pants and was with us enjoying the day. Some guy just had to shout out at him,' gay" Well, actually the F word was used.. I'm sure gay people have to put up with allot of stupid remarks even with all their recent rights.

To tell the truth though, I'm not so sure my husband ever wore thse pants again in public.

Our son in Japan sometimes runs into locals who have a disgusted look on their faces when they see him.

Not usual but it happens.

He also gets along well with most everyone,all his dealers in Vegas who worked under him were glad he was their supervisor, never picked on anyone and got along with all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds.

I think racisim is learned when people are young.

Just like dogs learn good and bad behavior from the owners, children learn hate from their parents.