Absolutely Anything Else

A hard, stone faced local lady was waiting for me to cut her hair. We both could tell by the look on her face that she wasn't happy a white lady was going to cut her hair.
My co-worker joked with her saying words to the effect of, "No worries, she part Injun, she no gonna scalp you though"! My gosh what can anyone say to that?
..
-@Marilyn Tassy

That made me laugh!

Just Google OVs speeches, it's all there about his views. He has been in trouble with the Jewish community in the past. As far as I know, he hasn't changed them.

We're not religious here at all. In fact, we're the opposite even though our heritage is Judeo-Christian. We find it hard to take OVs claims of doing extremist things in our names. That has no legitimacy. We're not seeing the separation of church and state that should be in place.

I do know Germany quite well as I worked and lived there for some years and we go there maybe once or twice a year. I keep my eye on the entire European situation and I can imagine ghetto'isation is going on there as well as France (i.e. riots).

The EU agreement is to allow refugees to remain in the first safe country where they claim asylum. That seems reasonable. But the modification via qualified majority voting at the EU isn't a problem except for OV and Poland. There's nothing wrong with altering the mechanism to ensure subsequent quotas to spread the load amongst the member states.

I do want the UK to accept more migrants but the government there is committed to the opposite and does cruel and unsupportable things. UK is no longer party to EU agreements on migration and has a separate policy (all due to Brexit).

I do support Freedom of Movement for all. It's something I lost in the Brexit fiasco and everytime I go through the airport, I am reminded of the loss.
-@fluffy2560

I see uncontrolled migration as an extremely destructive force especially in societies that have a long established social security and healthcare system. Some might like these destructive forces. I don't.

Allowing massive migration into a country with limited social security, housing, healthcare and educational facilities will sooner or later lead to civil unrest. You might wish that for the UK, but I hope this will not spread from France.

I think there is no need in further talking about this, because we will never come to a common ground in this matter.

I see uncontrolled migration as an extremely destructive force especially in societies that have a long established social security and healthcare system. Some might like these destructive forces. I don't.

Allowing massive migration into a country with limited social security, housing, healthcare and educational facilities will sooner or later lead to civil unrest. You might wish that for the UK, but I hope this will not spread from France.

I think there is no need in further talking about this, because we will never come to a common ground in this matter.
-@nz7521137

Well, not really. Those that contribute will be paying their way and improving the economy. They aren't all going to be loafers creaming off cash from the system. They have to be allowed to work and not locked up in camps. Then they aren't a burden on the rest.

In any case, who said anything about uncontrolled immigration? We originally discussed government narratives of characterising refugees and asylum seeks as "illegal migrants". That's just propaganda.

At the moment, there is no way to obtain entry into some countries based on individual merit. There should be. It's not necessary to make it impossible, especially when there are labour shortages and declining birth rates. It's a King Canute moment.

As we're closing down this particular discussion (your choice), I do hope you will take the time to do reality checks on anything coming out of the OV propaganda machine/people.

At the moment, there is no way to obtain entry into some countries based on individual merit.

-@fluffy2560

Can you name the "some countries"? I wouldn't know a single country that rejects everybody no matter what the merits are. And yes, if there is no common ground then there is no need for discussion on a specific topic.

A hard, stone faced local lady was waiting for me to cut her hair. We both could tell by the look on her face that she wasn't happy a white lady was going to cut her hair.
My co-worker joked with her saying words to the effect of, "No worries, she part Injun, she no gonna scalp you though"! My gosh what can anyone say to that?
..
-@Marilyn Tassy

That made me laugh!
-@fluffy2560

Yes, I laughed too but thought, what the heck? Not exactly very PC of a comment.

Nani, she was one heck of a funny lady.

I almost opened a salon in Hilo with her as partners but thought the better of it when she got high with a seller of salon equipment.

We were looking at furniture for our salon and it hit me that she was high 99.9% of the time and not all that dependable as a business partner.

Wouldn't of been dull but way to much drama.

What was super funny was she came to our house once and I introduced her to a shot of Hungarian palinka.

At over 6 feet tall, a good 180lbs of a women, that one shot hit her harder then expected.

It was funny.

So much for Maui Wowie, just need a shot of palinka!

Sad to report our old boss ( super cool older ex-model/Hippie lady from the mainland) told me over the phone that Nani had become a full blown junkie. My 6th sense saved me from getting caught up in her drama.

I never worked in a salon with such an interesting crew of ladies.

The boss in the mid 90's was in her early 60's. She was also over 6 feet tall, you could tell she had been a beautiful model in her youth. She hired me by just meeting me once, gave me the keys to her salon and money box and took off to Thailand and Bali for a few months with her 40 something year old BF. Pretty wild stuff.

Her logic was if she made a mistake with trusting me, it would be my own bad karma.

Gotta love someone like that.

The other lady that worked in the salon was a local lady who had a mouth on her, funny too.

She was forever getting mad at her grown sons GF who lived with them.

Always saying she made a mess in the kitchen and never cleaned up.

Nani once asked her why her son puts up with it.

Her answer I didn't understand at first, never heard that rough sort slang before.

Her answer was, "well, she can suck the chrome off one bummpa." What was super funny is these two procced to argue over which one of them could aslo perform such a feat!!

Good grief, I learned allot working with those 3, for one thing to not take life all that seriously.

All 3 I found out later were high as kites all day long. I was way too serious at my job to even pay them any mind.

They must of thought I was funny for taking my job seriously.

They always told me I should move to fast paced Honolulu because I had ,"too much energy".

Not sure if that was a compliment or insult.

At the moment, there is no way to obtain entry into some countries based on individual merit.

-@fluffy2560
Can you name the "some countries"? I wouldn't know a single country that rejects everybody no matter what the merits are. And yes, if there is no common ground then there is no need for discussion on a specific topic.
-@nz7521137

The UK is my top example.    Australia has a similar kind of non-system I believe.   

There's an infamous video where a parliamentary committee on immigration member asks the Home Office (Interior ) minister (nicknamed Cruella) what legal routes there are to migrate to the UK.   And the answer is that there aren't any.  The questioner then says understates "there's a shortage of legal routes".

Gosh, I picked the wrong time of year to have a small medical procedure done!

I would defo be at the water today if not for my exam in the morning.

Way too hot to be messing around doing anything but swimming.

I am starting a 24 hour min. fast now.

Have to stay near home today due to the prep drink I must take later this afternoon.

How stupid of me to do this now.

We usually have any dental/medical procedures done in cooler weather.

A digital CT colongraph in the morning!!

I know sounds like fun doesn't it?

Too late to cancle it now.

The cost in the US is over, $2,000 so I suppose I'd be silly not to get it done here now when I can.

Hope all at the water have a great time.

Good news is it seems it's going to stay hot for awhile now so there's always next time to enjoy the water.

I have a cousin aged 74 who has gotten these sorts of colon exams every single year since he was age 15!!

He is either crazy-smart or super paranoid.

My brother passed in Sept. from colon cancer,I thought it was time I made sure things were OK for myself.

I don't think they really push for these exams here with the national health unless you request them.

At the moment, there is no way to obtain entry into some countries based on individual merit.

-@fluffy2560
Can you name the "some countries"? I wouldn't know a single country that rejects everybody no matter what the merits are. And yes, if there is no common ground then there is no need for discussion on a specific topic.
-@nz7521137

The UK is my top example.  Australia has a similar kind of non-system I believe. 

There's an infamous video where a parliamentary committee on immigration member asks the Home Office (Interior ) minister (nicknamed Cruella) what legal routes there are to migrate to the UK.  And the answer is that there aren't any. The questioner then says understates "there's a shortage of legal routes".
-@fluffy2560

To my knowledge me and my wife (just for example) could apply for a visa to permanently migrate to the UK or to Australia. It can be done online. Certainly, I don't know whether we would be granted a visa to settle down in either of these countries. The immigration system for Australia (yes, there is one!) has many options and I am sure it doesn't reject everybody.

To my knowledge me and my wife (just for example) could apply for a visa to permanently migrate to the UK or to Australia. It can be done online. Certainly, I don't know whether we would be granted a visa to settle down in either of these countries. The immigration system for Australia (yes, there is one!) has many options and I am sure it doesn't reject everybody.
-@nz7521137

You're in a privileged position coming from a Western country with a good passport for travel.

If you're a refugee or asylum seeker, there's no chance of legitimately escaping to a place of safety. It's not like you can make an application at an embassy, be granted a refugee visa and then get on a plane. The only option is to leave in other ways.

I have some familiarity with Australia and its visa system - one of my kids is there now. Obviously not as an asylum seeker. In my own case, as a mostly WASP (with a sense of entitlement but less of the P) and a strong passport, I got my online Australian visa in about 5 seconds. Not the same for others.  BTW, if you're about over 45, you won't get a migration visa to Australia on your own account.

Australia has a problematic and negative human rights history with its asylum camps in Nauru and PNG and it's ludicrous deportation to Cambodia programme (not unlike the UK's Rwanda project). 

If you have opportunity, watch the mini-series Stateless (on Netflix) about how the Australian system treats potential deportees aka people. I won't add spoilers but suffice to say it also shows how the guilty seem to have gone unpunished. OK, it's a drama but it's still shows how it works or used to work.

I also have some more direct involvement with people leaving Myanmar. I helped someone do that.

@fluffy2560 You are wrong again, I think. Mainly because you generalize too much. It is true that not everybody has the right to live in every country of choice.

There is very rarely a need for a person to travel to the EU or the UK to first enter into a safe place. The majority of the Syrians only flee to Lebanon and to Turkey, for example. Overall, Africa is generally a safe place. So why wouldn't an African flee to Rwanda (just an example)?

I believe that most reasons for migration are caused by "The West", mainly due to their wars and regime change operations. In that respect I think that the EU nations that supported these wars/operations deserve what they get. The sad thing is that the most vulnerable have no chance to ever getting close to the EU. Only the youngest, fittest, most unscrupulous (mostly men) will make the long and dangerous way. And secretly the EU administration is happy to see any reduction in arrivals.

@fluffy2560 You are wrong again, I think. Mainly because you generalize too much. It is true that not everybody has the right to live in every country of choice.
There is very rarely a need for a person to travel to the EU or the UK to first enter into a safe place. The majority of the Syrians only flee to Lebanon and to Turkey, for example. Overall, Africa is generally a safe place. So why wouldn't an African flee to Rwanda (just an example)?

I believe that most reasons for migration are caused by "The West", mainly due to their wars and regime change operations. In that respect I think that the EU nations that supported these wars/operations deserve what they get. The sad thing is that the most vulnerable have no chance to ever getting close to the EU. Only the youngest, fittest, most unscrupulous (mostly men) will make the long and dangerous way. And secretly the EU administration is happy to see any reduction in arrivals.
-@nz7521137

I'm not sure what I am wrong about (again or otherwise).

Rwanda is not a safe country. It has proxy fighters in Congo and there's a lot of conflict in the region, especially over illegal mining in the border area.  There's a lot of hidden power plays in those border countries like Uganda, Burundi etc.

Lebanon is full and always teetering on an economic precipice. And the EU pays Turkey to keep the refugees from Syria. I used to work in Syria and know the country reasonably well.   Most Syrians would rather be at home for sure but it's too dangerous. Before the war, for those who didn't challenge  the system or were part of it, life was not too bad.  For those who didn't care for the regime, it was an increasingly miserable and frustrating existence.

I thought we'd moved on?

I thought we'd moved on?
-@fluffy2560

Moved on from "the right for everybody to move everywhere". You think there is a right, I think there is none.So no need to discuss. Reality shows there isn't such right.

Rwanda is not a safe country. It has proxy fighters in Congo and there's a lot of conflict in the region, especially over illegal mining in the border area. There's a lot of hidden power plays in those border countries like Uganda, Burundi etc.
-@fluffy2560

If I follow your line of thought then there are parts of the USA that are not safe. So the USA is not a safe country. Similar with France. There are parts of France that are definitely not safe => France is not a safe country.

On the other hand, I think that most countries in the world are safe. That doesn't mean that most countries will provide a good living environment for migrants. A major percentage of migrants coming (or being moved) to Portugal leave/vanish within less than a year moving for greener pastures.

I thought we'd moved on?
-@fluffy2560
Moved on from "the right for everybody to move everywhere". You think there is a right, I think there is none.So no need to discuss. Reality shows there isn't such right.
-@nz7521137

No, I never said that. All these border and immigration controls are designed by people. If the politicians were less keen on sticking it to the vulnerable, they'd have time to design a better system.

There should be low cost or free application routes for legitimate migration on merit etc.   I'm a fan of the concept of a diversity visa like the US has.  I'm not eligible (as British) but I can see it's quite a good idea.   

If there's was a diversity visa system, then people smugglers would have a little less leverage over migrants. 

Blocking everyone, demonising or criminalising them is unhelpful and pointless in the longer term. It's just politicking.

Rwanda is not a safe country. It has proxy fighters in Congo and there's a lot of conflict in the region, especially over illegal mining in the border area. There's a lot of hidden power plays in those border countries like Uganda, Burundi etc.
-@fluffy2560
If I follow your line of thought then there are parts of the USA that are not safe. So the USA is not a safe country. Similar with France. There are parts of France that are definitely not safe => France is not a safe country.

On the other hand, I think that most countries in the world are safe. That doesn't mean that most countries will provide a good living environment for migrants. A major percentage of migrants coming (or being moved) to Portugal leave/vanish within less than a year moving for greener pastures.
-@nz7521137

Absolutely the US is not a safe country.  But it's a matter of degree and where you are.   France the same.

Overall they are probably a lot safer than gang run areas of El Salvador where they are targeting you specifically.   Most migrants want to raise they families in safety, have a better life, enough to eat, shelter, live their own lifestyle, follow their beliefs etc.  It's basic needs.

But we can argue about the stats on violent deaths per country etc if you feel like it.

No, I never said that. All these border and immigration controls are designed by people. If the politicians were less keen on sticking it to the vulnerable, they'd have time to design a better system.

There should be low cost or free application routes for legitimate migration on merit etc.  I'm a fan of the concept of a diversity visa like the US has. I'm not eligible (as British) but I can see it's quite a good idea. 

If there's was a diversity visa system, then people smugglers would have a little less leverage over migrants.

Blocking everyone, demonising or criminalising them is unhelpful and pointless in the longer term. It's just politicking.
-@fluffy2560

Every country is free to implement a system like you mention, or not. Hungary doesn't want to let anybody in before their case is settled. Australia and NZ are the same. I assume that the US generally doesn't let an applicant enter before their case has been approved (unless people simply "gate crash" at the Mexican border). Btw, the population or government of some countries doesn't want more diversity (e.g. Japan or Saudi Arabia). Fair enough, I think.

Every country is free to implement a system like you mention, or not. Hungary doesn't want to let anybody in before their case is settled. Australia and NZ are the same. I assume that the US generally doesn't let an applicant enter before their case has been approved (unless people simply "gate crash" at the Mexican border). Btw, the population or government of some countries doesn't want more diversity (e.g. Japan or Saudi Arabia). Fair enough, I think.
-@nz7521137

Who wants to live in Japan (apart from Marilyn's son) and definitely who wants to live in Saudi Arabia?  Hardly attractive to be in KSA if your lifestyle or beliefs don't match?

Yes, every country can do its own system. In Hungary, they've joined the EU so they've accepted the rules of being a member.  Currently this means doing things according to the EU processes agreed to be under qualified majority voting.  That means quotas for migrants.  Tough luck Hungary and tough luck OV.

If you look up the US diversity visa (DV) system, you can see how it works.  It gives everyone the opportunity to apply for free for a visa to settle in the USA.  Mrs F and I were in the US diversity lottery back in the early 2000s. We were selected but we didn't agree with the US  politics at the time so we didn't go. We don't regret not going.    Nationality generally has nothing to do with DV eligibility for many countries.

I think this could be a base model for other countries to adopt with their own variants.

Who wants to live in Japan (apart from Marilyn's son) and definitely who wants to live in Saudi Arabia? Hardly attractive to be in KSA if your lifestyle or beliefs don't match?

Yes, every country can do its own system. In Hungary, they've joined the EU so they've accepted the rules of being a member. Currently this means doing things according to the EU processes agreed to be under qualified majority voting. That means quotas for migrants. Tough luck Hungary and tough luck OV.

If you look up the US diversity visa (DV) system, you can see how it works. It gives everyone the opportunity to apply for free for a visa to settle in the USA. Mrs F and I were in the US diversity lottery back in the early 2000s. We were selected but we didn't agree with the US politics at the time so we didn't go. We don't regret not going.  Nationality generally has nothing to do with DV eligibility for many countries.

I think this could be a base model for other countries to adopt with their own variants.
-@fluffy2560

G7 countries should stand together in the accommodation of poor refugees. So Japan should take millions. KSA is a very good destination for Muslims. And, as a non-democracy, a long term partner of the US and UK. So, the ideal destination. I know a few non-Muslims that are on full time jobs in Saudi.

If countries want to make immigration a lottery game, they are free to do so. I would recommend it. I also think that Hungary can be happy to have OV and the Fidesz instead of e.g. what Germany has at the moment. If Hungary is ignoring some EU rules, so do many others (Spain, Portugal, Poland, Germany, ...). Hungary is attacked because they have their own view of the world and are not the standard war mongers.

Simply accepting migrants into the EU without proper processing and vetting is also against EU rules. Why does a migrant from the US to Portugal need to provide all sorts of documents (including criminal record) when a migrant from Africa doesn't have to do that?

Anyway I believe that the collective West is responsible for the migration movements. Exploitation of Africa and treating the continent as a rubbish tip cannot be good for any country. Trade agreements with the EU only serve the EU. Mainly US/UK inflicted (and EU supported) constant wars are generating the refugees/migrants that are now seen as troublesome.

If you really hate Hungary under OV/Fidesz so much and you even declined your US visa for political reasons, why don't you and your family move to a place that is politically more in line with your views? The latter assuming that you are not involved in a regime change OP and you have to be there .

Who wants to live in Japan (apart from Marilyn's son) and definitely who wants to live in Saudi Arabia? Hardly attractive to be in KSA if your lifestyle or beliefs don't match?

Yes, every country can do its own system. In Hungary, they've joined the EU so they've accepted the rules of being a member. Currently this means doing things according to the EU processes agreed to be under qualified majority voting. That means quotas for migrants. Tough luck Hungary and tough luck OV.

If you look up the US diversity visa (DV) system, you can see how it works. It gives everyone the opportunity to apply for free for a visa to settle in the USA. Mrs F and I were in the US diversity lottery back in the early 2000s. We were selected but we didn't agree with the US politics at the time so we didn't go. We don't regret not going. Nationality generally has nothing to do with DV eligibility for many countries.

I think this could be a base model for other countries to adopt with their own variants.
-@fluffy2560
G7 countries should stand together in the accommodation of poor refugees. So Japan should take millions. KSA is a very good destination for Muslims. And, as a non-democracy, a long term partner of the US and UK. So, the ideal destination. I know a few non-Muslims that are on full time jobs in Saudi.

If countries want to make immigration a lottery game, they are free to do so. I would recommend it. I also think that Hungary can be happy to have OV and the Fidesz instead of e.g. what Germany has at the moment. If Hungary is ignoring some EU rules, so do many others (Spain, Portugal, Poland, Germany, ...). Hungary is attacked because they have their own view of the world and are not the standard war mongers.

Simply accepting migrants into the EU without proper processing and vetting is also against EU rules. Why does a migrant from the US to Portugal need to provide all sorts of documents (including criminal record) when a migrant from Africa doesn't have to do that?

If you really hate Hungary under OV/Fidesz so much and you even declined your US visa for political reasons, why don't you and your family move to a place that is politically more in line with your views? The latter assuming that you are not involved in a regime change OP and you have to be there .
-@nz7521137

It's an old chestnut about moving. We are considering moving to another country that is more democratic and less autocratic.  When we started here, it was not an autocratic state but many commentators talk of Hungary as being like Putin's Russia of ten years ago.  Moving has been on our minds for some years but it's not that easy.  We're heavily invested here.

It's not Hungary itself, it is OV/Fidesz we despise.  We've been hoping for that to change. The next elections will be critical.  Our kids - as I said before - are talking of leaving as they want to live in a more liberal society.  One of them wants to go to Spain.   That's quite a sad indictment of the society here that the young ones feel they need to leave their country to be themselves.

I never said that people should not be  documented. 

What I disagree with is that there is no free mechanism for merit based migrants to actually apply to move somewhere else.  The DV system gives permission to apply as normal but the important thing is it doesn't put pre-conditions like having a sponsor or a job.

There's too much right wing politics going on right now.  We're seeing the rise of the AfD in Germany and in Italy, it's Meloni, Brothers of Italy and that extremist Salvini as Deputy PM.  Italy has a particularly unfortunate history in mistreating refugees and migrants.  Let's hope Trump doesn't get in again and gets jail time. If Trump is in, Putin's forces will be through Ukraine and on the borders of Hungary.  I could even envisage Putin being in Budapest. And OV will be  there with the flowers welcoming him in.

Change of topic:

I think we've really gone to Hell in a handbasket.

Leslie Van Houten was set free.

I grew up in Simi just a bit N.  of LA county.

The only had the Old Pass Road to drive on to get between the San Fernando valley and Simi/Santa Susana or Santa Sue as we locals called it.

We all had to pass by the Spahn Ranch as it was just slightly offset from the pass road about half way down the mountain.

Mr Spahn was an elderly man who allowed th Manson family to basically take over his ranch.

Van Houten and the rest of the family took advantage of him in his old age.

I know many people who went to the ranch to rent horses. My 2 older sisters went there once and only  once as teenagers.

The Manson memebers took charge of the horses, saddeling them up and caring for them.

My sister said the enitre experience was just weird. The poor horses were freaked out, wild and nervous.

God only knows what those poor animals witnessed on the ranch.

I know the decaputated Shortly, one of Mr. Spahns old workers.

His head and body were buried on the land. Not sure if it was his head or his body that was recovered.

In what sort of reality would anyone set her free again?

She should of been hung decades ago.

Change of topic:
I think we've really gone to Hell in a handbasket.
Leslie Van Houten was set free.
I grew up in Simi just a bit N. of LA county.
The only had the Old Pass Road to drive on to get between the San Fernando valley and Simi/Santa Susana or Santa Sue as we locals called it.
We all had to pass by the Spahn Ranch as it was just slightly offset from the pass road about half way down the mountain.
Mr Spahn was an elderly man who allowed th Manson family to basically take over his ranch.
Van Houten and the rest of the family took advantage of him in his old age.
I know many people who went to the ranch to rent horses. My 2 older sisters went there once and only once as teenagers.
The Manson memebers took charge of the horses, saddeling them up and caring for them.
My sister said the enitre experience was just weird. The poor horses were freaked out, wild and nervous.
God only knows what those poor animals witnessed on the ranch.
I know the decaputated Shortly, one of Mr. Spahns old workers.
His head and body were buried on the land. Not sure if it was his head or his body that was recovered.
In what sort of reality would anyone set her free again?
She should of been hung decades ago.
-@Marilyn Tassy

I think she was 19 when she lost her marbles and joined in with Manson.  I suppose it depends if anyone can be rehabilitated for anything they've done.  She's quite old now and probably unlikely to be a threat to anyone.  But after being in jail for so long, I doubt she'll be able to function properly in society.  She must be completely institutionalised.  She did say Manson controlled their lives completely and they were drugged a lot of the time.  Not really an excuse.  I suppose she'll get a book and movie deal to see her through to her end.

In the UK, we've got a killer called Colin Pitchfork. He's been in the news recently.  He murdered two young women back in the 80s. He has never said why he did it but it must be some psycho-sexual motivation.  He also has notoriety for being the first person convicted on DNA evidence.  He's been paroled but obviously people are very nervous to have him living nearby.  I cannot see anyone wanting him as a neighbour.  Probably they'll have to give him another name and identity otherwise someone might take the law into their own hands.

I just read some info on Shorty.

They say he wasn't chopped up into 9 pieces.

Getting hit on the head with a metal bar and stabbed to death seems bad enough to me.

I beleive in second chances but in some cases once is enough.

I don't know what country is really the best place to live.

Sweden seems liberal but the weather...

I was perfectly happy as a clam in S.Ca. but things change,I'd no longer be able to afford my old way of life there.

My freind who now has a nice modern large moblie home on 3 acres of land in AZ near the Grand Canyon wants to trade it in for a condo in Vegas.

She dislikes Vegas and moved away just about 3 years ago.

Sold her home with her fantastic swimming pool and great-set up and now wants a condo.

Her health is forcing her back to a large city.

I have no idea why they moved out in nowhere in the high desert but to each their own.

Ill health puts limits on ones lifestyle.

It's rather sad really.

Had the idea of going to the lake today, saw wind in the morning and decided to try another day instead.

Now the wind has pretty much died down...Figures.

I don't find it very comfortable to get soaking wet and sit out in the wind no matter how hot it is outside.

I just don't trust the weather reports, they seem so off most of the time.

Went to Tesco yesterday and saw watermelon for 499 per kilo.

That's a bit much.

I wonder if they take them back if they are no good at that price?

I don't see inflatrion getting lower here and I see the dollare exchange dropping.

Maybe we will pack it up too sooner or later.

Been talking about it for awhile now but getting it together to move is not as easy as it seems.

We moved so many times in the past , planned it out, did our own packing and made solid plans.

Now the thought of it seems daunting.

Sometimes one just needs a push to get started though.

The things I liked about Hungary years ago somehow how lost their luster.

I do think it's not Hungary's fault though. We change, the world changes and sometimes not for the better.

I know if we moved we'd miss the peace of knowing our home is paid for and no one is bothering us to do anything.

I'd dislike having to pay rent every month.

I have no idea why my AZ friend wants to buy a condo, what's wrong with renting?

If you don't like the place you can always move faster without regrets.

Saw Libri bookshops got fined under the LGBT law:

Heartstopper: Hungarian retailer selling graphic novel fined under LGBT law

This book was made into a Netflix TV show which is accessible from Hungary.

Is Netflix going to be fined as well?

I can see this reaching higher courts.

Update: it was Libri, not Libro

I just read some info on Shorty.
They say he wasn't chopped up into 9 pieces.
Getting hit on the head with a metal bar and stabbed to death seems bad enough to me.
I believe in second chances but in some cases once is enough.
I don't know what country is really the best place to live.
Sweden seems liberal but the weather...

I was perfectly happy as a clam in S.Ca. but things change,I'd no longer be able to afford my old way of life there.
My friend who now has a nice modern large mobile home on 3 acres of land in AZ near the Grand Canyon wants to trade it in for a condo in Vegas.
She dislikes Vegas and moved away just about 3 years ago.
Sold her home with her fantastic swimming pool and great-set up and now wants a condo.
Her health is forcing her back to a large city.
I have no idea why they moved out in nowhere in the high desert but to each their own.
Ill health puts limits on ones lifestyle.
It's rather sad really.

Had the idea of going to the lake today, saw wind in the morning and decided to try another day instead.
Now the wind has pretty much died down...Figures.
I don't find it very comfortable to get soaking wet and sit out in the wind no matter how hot it is outside.
I just don't trust the weather reports, they seem so off most of the time.

Went to Tesco yesterday and saw watermelon for 499 per kilo.
That's a bit much.
I wonder if they take them back if they are no good at that price?
I don't see inflation getting lower here and I see the dollar exchange dropping.
Maybe we will pack it up too sooner or later.
Been talking about it for awhile now but getting it together to move is not as easy as it seems.
We moved so many times in the past , planned it out, did our own packing and made solid plans.
Now the thought of it seems daunting.
Sometimes one just needs a push to get started though.
The things I liked about Hungary years ago somehow how lost their luster.
I do think it's not Hungary's fault though. We change, the world changes and sometimes not for the better.
I know if we moved we'd miss the peace of knowing our home is paid for and no one is bothering us to do anything.
I'd dislike having to pay rent every month.
I have no idea why my AZ friend wants to buy a condo, what's wrong with renting?
If you don't like the place you can always move faster without regrets.
-@Marilyn Tassy

It's brutally hot again down at Balaton.   No problem getting cold here.  Amazing after all the storms, it's just back to the same temperature.  We'll be in the water this afternoon.

Anyway, I agree, Hungary has lost its lustre.  It was never really shiny but it was gold simply because of Mrs F.  It was OK for the first 10 years, got a bit funny in the second 10 and now we're in the 3rd decade, it looks like terminal decline and there are better places to end one's days.  We're beginning to wonder about leaving too - we no longer fit in here. 

At least you'd have a choice of weather and scenery in the USA. 

Realistically we can only go to the UK or Ireland without paperwork.   And the British are unwelcoming to foreigners like Mrs F.

I had to warn my "rescued" Myanmar/Burma contact in the UK that the UK government is now trying to visa price them out of the country and they should consider asking for asylum from the Myanmar/Burma civil war when their permission to stay in the UK runs out.

I just read some info on Shorty.
They say he wasn't chopped up into 9 pieces.
Getting hit on the head with a metal bar and stabbed to death seems bad enough to me.
I believe in second chances but in some cases once is enough.
I don't know what country is really the best place to live.
Sweden seems liberal but the weather...

-@Marilyn Tassy

I wonder if the Shorty is the same Shorty as the TV show and movie "Get Shorty".

Anyway, the Family sure got Shorty.

Manson is now dead of course so we'll never know what truly motivated him.

Hungary has lost its lustre. It was never really shiny but it was gold simply because of Mrs F. It was OK for the first 10 years, got a bit funny in the second 10 and now we're in the 3rd decade, it looks like terminal decline and there are better places to end one's days. We're beginning to wonder about leaving too - we no longer fit in here.

Realistically we can only go to the UK or Ireland without paperwork.  And the British are unwelcoming to foreigners like Mrs F.

-@fluffy2560

That's quite sad, because you are still in a home construction project in an area that is actually very nice. Also Hungary appears to us still pretty good value for money (prices and tax wise). From experience I know that the grass is always greener on the other side. Going by the media I am now living in one of the top places in the world, but that is only true for people that have some money and don't need to work for a living in Portugal. Even migrants are usually leaving for greener pastures very soon (uuups ... gone).

I agree that there are better places to end one's days than Hungary, but if that's where you friends and family are? Going by my friends, I almost only lived in top destinations, but the political system would have never played a role in whether I liked it or not.

Hungary has lost its lustre. It was never really shiny but it was gold simply because of Mrs F. It was OK for the first 10 years, got a bit funny in the second 10 and now we're in the 3rd decade, it looks like terminal decline and there are better places to end one's days. We're beginning to wonder about leaving too - we no longer fit in here.

Realistically we can only go to the UK or Ireland without paperwork. And the British are unwelcoming to foreigners like Mrs F.

-@fluffy2560
That's quite sad, because you are still in a home construction project in an area that is actually very nice. Also Hungary appears to us still pretty good value for money (prices and tax wise). From experience I know that the grass is always greener on the other side. Going by the media I am now living in one of the top places in the world, but that is only true for people that have some money and don't need to work for a living in Portugal. Even migrants are usually leaving for greener pastures very soon (uuups ... gone).

I agree that there are better places to end one's days than Hungary, but if that's where you friends and family are? Going by my friends, I almost only lived in top destinations, but the political system would have never played a role in whether I liked it or not.
-@nz7521137

Currently Hungary is really a mini- and early'ish version of a Russian kleptocracy. Russia is progressing or is already past that and is now more or less a mafia state. So it's just a matter of time.

Yes, we do live in a desirable area. One of the reasons we chose it. We continue to improve our property as we actually live in it. It's not a hobby or a project but a home. Be worth a lot more if they completed M0 (ring motorway) or put in a metro station (for Metro 4). The local government turned down the metro station because it would develop the village too much and too many people would be demanding services like healthcare, schools or police etc.

"Our" directly related older folks are declining. There won't be anyone left either in HU or the UK soon (max perhaps 5 years and they'll be gone).

So Mrs F and I will be sitting here on our own and our kids will have gone off to other countries.

I've always worked internationally. We know lots of people but our real friends are all international and live in other countries.

This afternoon, Mrs F and I were discussing when we would leave. We were doing that while floating in Balaton. What could happen to push us over the edge?

We decided it would be when HU officially votes and succeeds in passing a referendum to leave the EU. I put the chances currently at 1 in 3 that this will be an election issue and be included in manifestos. But with the usual kind of sustained OV anti-EU and unfair campaign (OV controls all the media), it'd be 1 in 2 chance of being policy to hold a referendum.

We keep hoping the OV/Fidesz edifice will collapse but like Russia and the USA, you never know what kind of lunatics are going to take over.

@fluffy2560 No worries. Hungary won't leave the EU. OV is a populist and the populus wants to be in the EU. My wife also doesn't want to live in Hungary, especially not in Budapest. And I would probably only want to live in Budapest. It we wanted to live in Hungary at all, which is very unlikely. And this has nothing to do with OV and even less with Mr Putin. And my view in this respect is the opposite of yours.

It is a bit sad that after 30 years in Hungary you have not been able to make real friends with anybody that you meet on a day/week to day/week basis.

For us the first question is whether we like to live in a place, and climate is a big factor. Our friends are all over the world and it would always be hard to choose a place based upon that. Language is a factor as well. For the time being Portugal is good. But if we could we would like the Sunshine Coast of Australia (somewhere around Noosa). But maybe that is only a day dream. Definitely not on a small island. And not in the cold of Canada. But with sufficient funds many places can be great.

I shared an optimism of Hungary in the EU. When I first came here, Trabants were rampant, 2-cycle engined vehicles made certain areas dense oily air-filled cough-o-matic lung killers. Small cars were the norm.

After joining the EU, we have seen the circumstances of many improve, but we have seen the circumstances of a select few immensely improve.

Under the Communism of the past, you had to adhere to certain ideals and know and kowtow to the right people to get ahead. People wanted to break free of this autocratic, kleptocratic system. Ironic that Hungary is now in the EU, but back to that same place, where a corrupt few make all the gains against the suffering masses. And not being of the right political party may mean no contracts for your business, no promotions within your company, no licensing for your business.

I moved to Hungary with optimism, but years of Fidesz arguing about non-issues while stealing from Hungary's future through underfunded schools and a lack of respect for teachers and professors, years of funding their friends' pet projects and golden fleece ego projects and stadiums at the expense of hospitals and the welfare of its own citizens shows the power of media control, research grant control, theater and cultural board control, election control.... Honestly, I do not think things will get better and I think there is a significant number of Hungarian youth who, when given the choice of leaving Hungary or staying, will certainly choose to leave. There already is a drain of the best and brightest to destinations outside of Hungary, I see this as only accelerating.

I bet big on Hungary being a place for my future retirement, but I do not see it as a welcoming place, a place adhering to the EU contract it signed, yet demanding its money and its voting rights, simply to antagonize others and make Europe a worse place -- like holding up Swedish succession to NATO and blocking relief and assistance funds destined to Ukraine. This is not the welcoming fun place I remembered before, and this is not becoming a more open and welcoming place as its trending shows.

If the forint didn't basically halve in value, I'd definitely have sold and moved but I'm barely keeping even right now as the real estate market falls into stagnation. I will leave, it's only a question of "when" not "if", but at what personal and financial cost? Eventually, those numbers will become plain to me.

After joining the EU, we have seen the circumstances of many improve, but we have seen the circumstances of a select few immensely improve.

-@Vicces1

Well, many individuals voted for Fidesz and they believe that they are benefiting from the current government. Also, many people don't want war with Russia. All those US/UK citizens will be gone in a flash, but the average Hungarian has to stay. Do you really think that a person like Ursula von der Leyen is a good person. Or the Biden family? Or do you believe that the UK providing weapons and services to Saudi in the fight against the Yemeni was working to make the world a better place?

None of us has a say in anything. We just can try to not get into the meat grinder or world politics.

@fluffy2560 No worries. Hungary won't leave the EU. OV is a populist and the populus wants to be in the EU. My wife also doesn't want to live in Hungary, especially not in Budapest. And I would probably only want to live in Budapest. It we wanted to live in Hungary at all, which is very unlikely. And this has nothing to do with OV and even less with Mr Putin. And my view in this respect is the opposite of yours.
-@nz7521137

What you are missing is OV's MO has always been to remain in power at whatever cost, including EU membership.  Anything and everything will be sacrificed to keep the OV/Fidesz cronies in power.   He intends to rule forever.  He's said that directly in his speeches.  Without the EU looking over his shoulder, he will be free to do whatever he wants.  So long as he's the top dog here, he'll accept Putin as uber-top dog/Alpha.

After joining the EU, we have seen the circumstances of many improve, but we have seen the circumstances of a select few immensely improve.
-@Vicces1

Well, many individuals voted for Fidesz and they believe that they are benefiting from the current government. Also, many people don't want war with Russia. All those US/UK citizens will be gone in a flash, but the average Hungarian has to stay. Do you really think that a person like Ursula von der Leyen is a good person. Or the Biden family? Or do you believe that the UK providing weapons and services to Saudi in the fight against the Yemeni was working to make the world a better place?
None of us has a say in anything. We just can try to not get into the meat grinder or world politics.
-@nz7521137

Hungary messing about is not going to stop any war with Russia. If it happens, it'll happen with or without them. OVs bleating about it is for his own purposes and it will not save the country and people from any conflict.    And OVs got zero influence with anyone who really matters.    Any conflict is going to be over all of Europe, it won't matter if you're in Athens or in Glasgow, it's going to hit everyone.

Since Turkey got (presumably) what it wanted over Sweden's NATO accession, and Hungary immediately caved  (what HU got out of it, no-one seems to know). But now there's not much left to bargain with except the EU budget.  Except this time no-one is going to fall for those Hungarian shenanigans again.

Whether I trust Biden, van der Leyen or the UK government is neither here nor there. 

I shared an optimism of Hungary in the EU. When I first came here, Trabants were rampant, 2-cycle engined vehicles made certain areas dense oily air-filled cough-o-matic lung killers. Small cars were the norm.
After joining the EU, we have seen the circumstances of many improve, but we have seen the circumstances of a select few immensely improve.
Under the Communism of the past, you had to adhere to certain ideals and know and kowtow to the right people to get ahead. People wanted to break free of this autocratic, kleptocratic system. Ironic that Hungary is now in the EU, but back to that same place, where a corrupt few make all the gains against the suffering masses. And not being of the right political party may mean no contracts for your business, no promotions within your company, no licensing for your business.
I moved to Hungary with optimism, but years of Fidesz arguing about non-issues while stealing from Hungary's future through underfunded schools and a lack of respect for teachers and professors, years of funding their friends' pet projects and golden fleece ego projects and stadiums at the expense of hospitals and the welfare of its own citizens shows the power of media control, research grant control, theater and cultural board control, election control.... Honestly, I do not think things will get better and I think there is a significant number of Hungarian youth who, when given the choice of leaving Hungary or staying, will certainly choose to leave. There already is a drain of the best and brightest to destinations outside of Hungary, I see this as only accelerating.
I bet big on Hungary being a place for my future retirement, but I do not see it as a welcoming place, a place adhering to the EU contract it signed, yet demanding its money and its voting rights, simply to antagonize others and make Europe a worse place -- like holding up Swedish succession to NATO and blocking relief and assistance funds destined to Ukraine. This is not the welcoming fun place I remembered before, and this is not becoming a more open and welcoming place as its trending shows.
If the forint didn't basically halve in value, I'd definitely have sold and moved but I'm barely keeping even right now as the real estate market falls into stagnation. I will leave, it's only a question of "when" not "if", but at what personal and financial cost? Eventually, those numbers will become plain to me.
-@Vicces1

I hear you brother...

What you are missing is OV's MO has always been to remain in power at whatever cost, including EU membership. Anything and everything will be sacrificed to keep the OV/Fidesz cronies in power.  He intends to rule forever. He's said that directly in his speeches. Without the EU looking over his shoulder, he will be free to do whatever he wants. So long as he's the top dog here, he'll accept Putin as uber-top dog/Alpha.
-@fluffy2560

Sounds like Portugal or many other super democratic countries. I hear that the opposition in Hungary is unfortunately also not that great and Budapest isn't really that well run (didn't Fidesz loose in Budapest?). At every election in Hungary there are international observers and they say that everything was fine with the election process.

Unfortunately there are people that cannot accept election results, if these results are not in line with their personal views. To me that is a bit undemocratic.

What you are missing is OV's MO has always been to remain in power at whatever cost, including EU membership. Anything and everything will be sacrificed to keep the OV/Fidesz cronies in power. He intends to rule forever. He's said that directly in his speeches. Without the EU looking over his shoulder, he will be free to do whatever he wants. So long as he's the top dog here, he'll accept Putin as uber-top dog/Alpha.
-@fluffy2560
Sounds like Portugal or many other super democratic countries. I hear that the opposition in Hungary is unfortunately also not that great and Budapest isn't really that well run (didn't Fidesz loose in Budapest?). At every election in Hungary there are international observers and they say that everything was fine with the election process.

Unfortunately there are people that cannot accept election results, if these results are not in line with their personal views. To me that is a bit undemocratic.
-@nz7521137

You are very uneducated on the politics of Hungary and Budapest, it seems. And yet you make grand claims about the democratic processes of many countries as if they are all the same. The OHCHR noted that the elections in Hungary were democratic but not fair. That's a very far cry from "not accepting the election results". That's like Putin winning 98% of the vote in Donetsk when no monitors other than their own were allowed and there were literally Putin's soldiers watching you as you voted. Sure -- it's the same in Portugal. /s

Of course you heard "Budapest isn't run so well", that is what the Fidesz media want you to hear. And you are swallowing the bait.... The Fidesz government withholds contractually obligated money from Budapest then blames Bp when it can't finance something. When the Bp mayor put a hold on all Fidesz contracts to review them for "irregularities", as Hungary refuses to allow EU audits, Fidesz stop funding construction projects -- the same construction projects it had approved and started itself with promised annual funds. Fidesz recently slashed funding for the mass transit system to extort concessions from the opposition government here in Bp. FYI - Bp alone provides about half of the country's GDP, growth, and employment, although it is only about 10% of the population.

I couldn't disagree with you more on the value of our votes and our democracies. No one should tolerate authoritarians who maintain power through illegal and petty means and the citizens of the country suffer as a result. Look at Turkey, Belarus, and Russia among others and no one would be proud that Hungary is mentioned in the same breath as these petty, selfish thugs.

@Vicces1 Yawn. Maybe time for another regime change OP by the usual ...

@Vicces1 Yawn. Maybe time for another regime change OP by the usual ...
-@nz7521137

Another great intellectual contribution.

Wait, perhaps this is a cheap shot, allow me to rephrase.

A suggestion was made regarding Hungarian, and specifically Budapest politics, on who knows what basis, but when further facts were learned, the person who made these accusations decided it was best to insult the messenger of the facts rather than learn or understand the situation upon which he/she had such a strong opinion about a few moments prior.

I think that says a lot about the person rather than the facts and reminds me of a hypothetical situation.

A 6-year-old goes up to Einstein and says, 2+2=5. Einstein says very good, you've demonstrated that everyone can have an opinion but not all opinions are equal.

@Vicces1 Without reading the full reply, we looked at many countries, Portugal and Georgia were definitely part of the list. HOWEVER when looking closely. income taxes can be close to zero (as they are in Hungary), but property taxes (annually) can be massive (unlike Hungary), to me this is a hidden tax which is not recognized by most just imagine to pay 2% per year?

OK we left Hungary for some reasons (and opportunity to sell), still from finances I think Hungary is still very fine (even with inflation kicking in).

Now we are in Turkey, I still have no income and property taxes, mandatory insurance, garbage is even cheaper than Hungary (not the reason to leave, but still)

Thing I want to say, please inform yourself about taxes before (in Turkey income taxes and capital gain can be absolutely massive)

For Turkey I intend to move before my pension kicks in. (perhaps things change in 2 or 3 years)

Perhaps even back to Hungary

You are very uneducated on the politics of Hungary and Budapest, it seems. And yet you make grand claims about the democratic processes of many countries as if they are all the same. The OHCHR noted that the elections in Hungary were democratic but not fair. That's a very far cry from "not accepting the election results". That's like Putin winning 98% of the vote in Donetsk when no monitors other than their own were allowed and there were literally Putin's soldiers watching you as you voted. Sure -- it's the same in Portugal. /s
Of course you heard "Budapest isn't run so well", that is what the Fidesz media want you to hear. And you are swallowing the bait.... The Fidesz government withholds contractually obligated money from Budapest then blames Bp when it can't finance something. When the Bp mayor put a hold on all Fidesz contracts to review them for "irregularities", as Hungary refuses to allow EU audits, Fidesz stop funding construction projects -- the same construction projects it had approved and started itself with promised annual funds. Fidesz recently slashed funding for the mass transit system to extort concessions from the opposition government here in Bp. FYI - Bp alone provides about half of the country's GDP, growth, and employment, although it is only about 10% of the population.
I couldn't disagree with you more on the value of our votes and our democracies. No one should tolerate authoritarians who maintain power through illegal and petty means and the citizens of the country suffer as a result. Look at Turkey, Belarus, and Russia among others and no one would be proud that Hungary is mentioned in the same breath as these petty, selfish thugs.
-@Vicces1

Good one. I'd forgotten about that tussle between OV and Christmas, the parking and public transport fees.

BP apart from powering the economy, contains the intelligensia who are capable of questioning the OV BS and not voting for him. As opposed to the Videki who sell their souls and ethics for bags of Fidesz potatoes.

It's a pathetic example of a country pretending to be an EU democracy. I think it's difficult to see how HU can be rehabilitated within a generation.

As I've said in this forum before, it's probably best HU is given an ultimatum - either OV/Fidesz or out of the EU.  Plays into his hands of course, but they did it to themselves. See how they like them apples.