Absolutely Anything Else

I'm amazed at the number of people in this thread who benefit directly from Western Institutions and laws actually denigrating the same institutions and laws that protect their welfare, their rights, their free speech, freedom of the press, etc. They take these liberties for granted, and yet they were hard fought battles to attain them, to preserve them.

Ask Nalvany about a fair Russian justice system. Ask all the oligarchs suddenly defenestrated for disagreeing with Putin. Or even shot and killed while walking in the street.

You forget these rights because you've never had to fight for them, never had them taken away. You've assumed these are your rights.

But with authoritarians and dictators, nothing is yours. It's their ego that counts. Ask the mothers of all the killed soldiers if they believe in the "cause". If Zelensky's "crimes" are sufficient to warrant the deaths of so much Russian blood, of so many Ukrainian men, and of the global consequences we've seen, on everything from military spending to famine in Africa due to the grain blockade.

Oh that's right, you do not suffer famine, so you have the luxury of congratulating dictators with a full plate of food and drink in front of you. You have the luxury of not sacrificing your children to this conflict. You have the absolutely confidence that nothing can be taken from you no matter your opinion. A lack of consequences really invokes this level of delusion. You suffer nothing, so you have the brazen ability to be confidently incorrect -- and as has been mentioned, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I do not think NATO and the US/EU are blameless in some of their even recent histories. But I'd much rather take my chances with them than the unaccountable autocrats we now see in so many countries.

But go on, put your money where your mouth is. Document a NATO atrocity carried out in the name of any member state's irredentism.
-@fluffy2560
The destruction of Libya.

But, USA and UK are the greatest warmongers in the world. On the Internet you can find the complete list of US/UK NATO military Ops of the past 50 years. Mostly against small weak opponents. But, they even got kicked out of Afghanistan. Fortunately, I would say. It is a shame that Germany got involved in this madness.
-@nz7521137

Libya was to do with the UN resolutions, peacekeeping and anti-terrorism. 

It was not a NATO-led mission to gain territory. 

America doesn't have a good track record on its wars I can agree on that.  It generally fails despite being able to deliver a Big Mac and Fries to the front line. UK does better on its military and political work but these days is a hollowed out shell militarily. 

Germany relies on NATO to keep it safe.  It has no choice but to join in as that's club it's in.  No-one is going to allow Germany to be overrun by invaders or have them on the border, if not for Germany's sake, for everyone else's.  Germany can declare itself neutral and leave NATO if it wants but no-one is going to come and rescue it.

But my question was to give an example where NATO invaded a country in order to appropriate its territory.  That doesn't happen.  Russia on the other hand, does do that with regularity.

Ask Nalvany about a fair Russian justice system. Ask all the oligarchs suddenly defenestrated for disagreeing with Putin. Or even shot and killed while walking in the street.

-@Vicces1

No, maybe ask Julian Assange instead. Or Edward Snowdon. Or those people that are incarcerated in Guantanamo. All excellent examples for that fair US/UK justice system.

Russia on the other hand, does do that with regularity.
-@fluffy2560

Please provide examples. It is clear to me that you think that US/NATO wars are for the betterment of the world, while Russia and China are by definition evildoers.

Russia on the other hand, does do that with regularity.
-@fluffy2560
Please provide examples. It is clear to me that you think that US/NATO wars are for the betterment of the world, while Russia and China are by definition evildoers.
-@nz7521137

Now you're trolling.

Unless you've been living in a bubble, you may have noticed Russia's war in Ukraine and in past Georgia and Chechnya.

You've still not given me an example of NATO invading as a land grab.

I'm amazed at the number of people in this thread who benefit directly from Western Institutions and laws actually denigrating the same institutions and laws that protect their welfare, their rights, their free speech, freedom of the press, etc.

Huh, this is truly: vicces.

A nice video: speech vs. reality:

Scott Morrison

Off course shadow banned by yt - so needed some tricks.

Canada is no different.

They take these liberties for granted, and yet they were hard fought battles to attain them, to preserve them.

Actually fought daily.

Nothing is granted: you either care and have the will/ power - or you lose.

Sometimes the local government try to overstep, but since cc. 2011 it is predominantly foreign siege.

Ask Nalvany about a fair Russian justice system. Ask all the oligarchs suddenly defenestrated for disagreeing with Putin. Or even shot and killed while walking in the street.

Oh, the modern Russian justice system is one of the easiest on the planet:

Don't harm the interest of Russia, or the Russian people, don't be a pupet/ profiting servant of foreign interests and don't attempt to harm the territorial integrity of the Federation.

Sure: who provenly against those principles get dealt accordingly.

Guess what: lead to chearing and en-masse popular support by the Russian population. As a matter of fact they up to date want more dead/ dealt accordingly oligarchs/ wild capitalists/ corrupt officials.

So when Putin did things like this:

Vladimir Putin takes Oleg Deripaska to task

= popular support, approval, praise from Russian people.

Sure: things like this are the final warning before a businessman wins a holiday camp in a Siberia...

You forget these rights because you've never had to fight for them, never had them taken away. You've assumed these are your rights.

Again:

Actually fought daily - not for some ink on paper which says "rights" but the "how things done in practice".

Nothing is granted: you either care and have the will/ power - or you lose.

But with authoritarians and dictators, nothing is yours. It's their ego that counts.

With any authoritan system you probably don't have ink of paper about "rights" / what can you do.

But even an Afghan warlord DO face consequances if do certain things: not because people have a right to do - they just do.

and of the global consequences we've seen, on everything from military spending to famine in Africa

Sure - can say "thanks" for it for wall street, blackrock, the military industrial complex, US deep state, the commanded EU leadership, etc...

Oh that's right, you do not suffer famine, so you have the luxury of congratulating dictators with a full plate of food and drink in front of you. You have the luxury of not sacrificing your children to this conflict. You have the absolutely confidence that nothing can be taken from you no matter your opinion. A lack of consequences really invokes this level of delusion. You suffer nothing, so you have the brazen ability to be confidently incorrect -- and as has been mentioned, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I do not think NATO and the US/EU are blameless in some of their even recent histories. But I'd much rather take my chances with them than the unaccountable autocrats we now see in so many countries.
-@Vicces1

Right now the whole planet face the consequences.

As for me: I have not just absolutute confidence, but actually experience that in a material sense everything can taken from me, and denied from me, can be and actually is blacklisted.

Some of the more sensible players did understand: it does not working out well for them, others not.

As for children: obviously in grave danger.

This present conflict is just an episode on the chessboard: exterminate the Ukrainian resistance in meat grinders to make easy way for large investors/ banks/ corporate america/ EU to rule their new colony without major danger/ local resistance and able to force upon them the cancerous agendas.

On the side benefit weaken a bit Russia and kill some of the Russians.

But this is just the path/ a part of the way towards the goal, which is: their new world order.

Mosaicks like: to destroy the European industry, generate energy and food crisis, generate inflation, debt, replace European national states with an EU superstate, etc.. Plan does work on some level: Western/ Northern Europe already fallen years ago, East Europe (without Russia/ the Caucasus) have back 30 years tops before reach the unchangeable perish.

So when the present generations die/ became too old - the task to resist the new world order befalls upon the ones who are right now children if until then they capable to resist dangers like the woke mind virus.

Most likely only in places which have hope of survival, such as Central/ South America, certain parts of Asia and Africa.

You've still not given me an example of NATO invading as a land grab.
-@fluffy2560

Syria, inclusive stealing of resources. Cuba, where the US stole Guantanamo Bay. Plus, the land grab doesn't matter at all. Plus, Russia would have been happy without a land grab in Ukraine. A regime change towards a friendly regime would have done for them.

Keep in mind that Russia has its own "Monroe Doctrine". Ukraine cannot chose NATO as a partner as much as Cuba cannot chose China or Russia as partner. What would the US do, if Russia and China were trying to put missile systems onto Cuba?

US and NATO provoked the Ukraine conflict and - unfortunately - the Europeans have to pay the price.

Ask Nalvany about a fair Russian justice system. Ask all the oligarchs suddenly defenestrated for disagreeing with Putin. Or even shot and killed while walking in the street.

-@Vicces1
No, maybe ask Julian Assange instead. Or Edward Snowdon. Or those people that are incarcerated in Guantanamo. All excellent examples for that fair US/UK justice system.
-@nz7521137

Ask the millions who get fair trials and fair representation. And again, you mention nothing of those murdered/assassinated without a trial, something that does not happen in the EU.

Are you actually suggesting that you'd be handled more fairly under a Russian court than an EU court? Are you delusional?

As for some of the other comments -- you are fruit farmers -- cherry-picking your examples, and assuming you have all the rights that people fought to achieve for decades. China is known to heavily police and censor the internet. Go try posting Winnie the Pooh there. Russia invaded another sovereign country costing the lives of hundreds of thousands. Again, you hide behind your rich words and your ideals however misplaced and delusional they may be but you do so from a place that includes no sacrifice on your own part, nothing fought for. You fight daily? Really? You stand up to dictators and authoritarians? You have been personally attacked or stood up for others that have been? Show me. Show me one time that you protested anything that your hollow written words express from the comfort of your home, your laptop, while sipping your tea or coffee.

I agree that I am being harsh, but try being a woman in Afghanistan and then tell me about how Islam treats all people equally. Try being a young protestor in Iran where the courts sentenced over 500 youths to death for protesting -- and the "fashion police" are back roaming the streets. Try being gay in Uganda where laws were passed just for being gay and for anyone who supports gays.  Then tell me how horribly oppressed you are. Can the EU and US do better? Sure they can. And they have processes to do so. What is the process for these countries to better themselves? There is none. So please stop the "relativism" of examples of poor behavior on both sides, it's a false dichotomy. They are not equal systems.

@Vicces1 All blurb from a supporter of "world police". How many millions have the US killed directly or indirectly in their wars after WW2. In Iraq alone it was millions. What about Vietnam? All for the betterment of the world? But, how could somebody that was indoctrinated all of his life recognize this. Very sad, actually.

We might all agree that only the wealthy gain in any war.

Histroy is full of tales of working class people being used and abused by their own gov.

Most of history has all been twisted and we only hear one side, the side of the ,"winners".

It really hurts my soul when I put a face to these wars.

Hearing number makes it easy to think of those suffering as ,"others' but when it's up close and personal it really is painful.

Most of the equipment being sent to Ukraine is more then likely old and has been sitting on the shelves for a long time.

It has to be used up so big business can produce more and make their profits.

I know, my husband used to make parts for the US gov. Everything from the space shuttle to fighter jets.

These things are sometimes over ordered and just sitting around for years.

He sometimes made useful things like customized back braces for orthopedic doctors and heart lung pump parts but mostly it is war that paid the bills.

The world needs a major overhaul.

I am not a fan of AI controlling humans but perhaps that is the solution.

Nothing personal, no personal gain

for AI.

Just the facts and making everyone accountable for their actions.

The weather seems confusing lately too.

Suppose to be 93F today and by Wed. 69F?

We might all agree that only the wealthy gain in any war.
Histroy is full of tales of working class people being used and abused by their own gov.
Most of history has all been twisted and we only hear one side, the side of the ,"winners".
It really hurts my soul when I put a face to these wars.
Hearing number makes it easy to think of those suffering as ,"others' but when it's up close and personal it really is painful.
Most of the equipment being sent to Ukraine is more then likely old and has been sitting on the shelves for a long time.
It has to be used up so big business can produce more and make their profits.
I know, my husband used to make parts for the US gov. Everything from the space shuttle to fighter jets.
These things are sometimes over ordered and just sitting around for years.
He sometimes made useful things like customized back braces for orthopedic doctors and heart lung pump parts but mostly it is war that paid the bills.
The world needs a major overhaul.
I am not a fan of AI controlling humans but perhaps that is the solution.
Nothing personal, no personal gain
for AI.
Just the facts and making everyone accountable for their actions.

The weather seems confusing lately too.
Suppose to be 93F today and by Wed. 69F?
-@Marilyn Tassy

AI is just rubbish. I've been trying out ChatGPT regularly and it's currently a curiosity more than anything. It does type good English. It's quite good for generating content but it's not really an AI like we'd see in the movies. It's more a text generator with some bells and whistles. I reckon will take years of development before it'll actually do anything seriously useful. It'll always need humans behind it. By the time it does anything that might affect me and my lot, perhaps we won't care.

Wars (even cold ones) have always caused leaps in technology and innovation. And it's big business. Costs a fortune to blow other people up. And plenty of people make money out of others suffering. And we're all expendable.  It's definitely money driven in the end.

What surprises me currently is the very high level of effective drone use over there in Ukraine. It's something we haven't really seen before. I can see a lot more of this going on in the future.

It's going to be hot again this week but it's getting a bit chilly at night. We were sitting outside last night boozing (but not me) and everyone had to have a blanket. We were looking at the corn in the fields. Once that's harvested, I can see that slippery slope down to September when the world will start up again, weather changes to a bit cooler etc.

Well we were,'t chilly at all last night.

Went to a lake for a cool down swim day.

Wish I had it in me to go again today.

Yes, we talked about getting out of Dodge this winter but so far who knows.

Talk is cheap and we are even too lazy to figure out where and what we wish to see or do.

It was so easy when our boy lived in Vegas. My husband loves Vegas, me not so much.

Japan is out of the question.

Stubborn husband doesn't want to be a house quest and isn't willing to pay Japanese prices for a hotel.

I suppose going to Japan will be a solo trip for me , one I hope in reality I never get to do.

I've been watching allot of U tube on slaveery in the US in the past( If we believe we all aren't living that way now, we are fooling ourselves)

My gosh, it's so upsetting and disgusting.

Even the old slave trade has a hidden history as to who did what to what tribe.

Never knew Portugal was where it all started.

Some heavy karma is due to many countires.

It had a religious factor in the slave business too.

It gets deep.

Off to the market today, hate to think about cooking in this heat. Air fryer time!

Well we were,'t chilly at all last night.
Went to a lake for a cool down swim day.
Wish I had it in me to go again today.
Yes, we talked about getting out of Dodge this winter but so far who knows.
Talk is cheap and we are even too lazy to figure out where and what we wish to see or do.
It was so easy when our boy lived in Vegas. My husband loves Vegas, me not so much.
Japan is out of the question.
Stubborn husband doesn't want to be a house quest and isn't willing to pay Japanese prices for a hotel.
I suppose going to Japan will be a solo trip for me , one I hope in reality I never get to do.
I've been watching allot of U tube on slaveery in the US in the past( If we believe we all aren't living that way now, we are fooling ourselves)
My gosh, it's so upsetting and disgusting.
Even the old slave trade has a hidden history as to who did what to what tribe.
Never knew Portugal was where it all started.
Some heavy karma is due to many countires.
It had a religious factor in the slave business too.
It gets deep.
Off to the market today, hate to think about cooking in this heat. Air fryer time!
-@Marilyn Tassy

It's the sea-faring nations that got involved in the slave trade.  They had the technology to travel long distances.  From 2023, it makes you wonder why anyone thought slavery was a good idea. 

And of course, there's modern slavery. When I was working in Syria (before the war), I lived in a shared apartment and our cleaner was a shy young woman from Indonesia - she might have been 16 and wearing a hijab etc. The owners lived in the apartment below. She seemed to be working pretty hard. I didn't really get the situation but I got the impression she was there to earn money for family back home. I found it quite sad she wasn't still at home with her family. I have no idea if she was a modern slave but just the situation didn't seem particularly happy and she was extremely nervous to speak to any of us.

My relatives in Dubai have a live in help from the Philippines. But they seem to be more like employees or marginally friends of my relatives. They get their yearly visit back home and have freedoms like meeting their friends, travel etc. Perhaps like a full time au pair.  Doesn't sound like modern slavery but then again my relatives aren't likely to abuse the help.

It's the sea-faring nations that got involved in the slave trade. They had the technology to travel long distances. From 2023, it makes you wonder why anyone thought slavery was a good idea.

And of course, there's modern slavery. When I was working in Syria (before the war), I lived in a shared apartment and our cleaner was a shy young woman from Indonesia - she might have been 16 and wearing a hijab etc. The owners lived in the apartment below. She seemed to be working pretty hard. I didn't really get the situation but I got the impression she was there to earn money for family back home. I found it quite sad she wasn't still at home with her family. I have no idea if she was a modern slave but just the situation didn't seem particularly happy and she was extremely nervous to speak to any of us.

My relatives in Dubai have a live in help from the Philippines. But they seem to be more like employees or marginally friends of my relatives. They get their yearly visit back home and have freedoms like meeting their friends, travel etc. Perhaps like a full time au pair. Doesn't sound like modern slavery but then again my relatives aren't likely to abuse the help.
-@fluffy2560

Sea-faring is one aspect of slavery, but slavery was "normal" for 1000s of years everywhere in the world. When a war was fought in the Roman empire then those not killed became slaves. Child labour is and was "normal" as well. That is also a kind of slavery,

The world isn't such a great place for many, but it has been getting better for a huge amount of people. The book Factfulness by Hans Rosling is interesting to read on this topic. And another good one is A fine Balance by Rohinton Mistry.

When living and working in the UAE I noticed that everybody got a good deal, meaning that it was always financially worth the while for an individual to live and work there.

When living and working in the UAE I noticed that everybody got a good deal, meaning that it was always financially worth the while for an individual to live and work there.
-@nz7521137

I have several relatives there, one of whom is a relatively well known surgeon.

From what I hear, they are making extremely good money and according to them, their golf is solidly improving.

Slavery was and is a good idea for those who see themselves as above their fellow human beings.

Money and power and wanting more then ones fair share of resources.

I've always been interested in unjustice.

Remember looking at books as a 3 -4 year old with Jewish concentration camps victims and being upset at the photos.

Too young to read the print but the pictures were more then enough.

Took my mother a bit to calm me down and distract me from all the questions I asked her.

I can't even really imagine  hiring a person too clean up after me .

In 1975 my husband went to S. Africa. He went to check it out himself and I was to follow soon after.

He spent 6 weeks there and returned to the US.

He like it over there but felt things were too wrong socially for us.

He said I'd be locked up my first day there because I'd befriend someone I shouldn't .

Insane.

After recently finding out my sisters DNA test , this has hit home even more then I thought.

We have African relations from generations ago. More then likely blacks from the American slave trade days.

It's areal eye opener.

Never thought that pracitce was right but now it's personal too.

Those who know me would find it hard to believe by looking at me, pale as a ghost, straight light hair and physical features that aren't common in black heritage but still, the blood don't lie.

I'm actually a bit proud to know I come from surviviors.

In 1975 if I had gone to S. Africa and known about my DNA, they would of had me fill out a form explaining what heritage one was, that and what religion a person was.

That was a time bomb  waiting to explode. How can a gov. keep most of it's population under such control and the world barely did anything about it for ages.

In 2022, the population decline in Hungary was close to 1%, and the population fell back to 1953 levels.

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comment … ngary_was/

In 2022, the population decline in Hungary was close to 1%, and the population fell back to 1953 levels.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comment … ngary_was/
-@Vicces1

Interesting. Looking at https://www.worldometers.info/world-pop … opulation/ I am surprised that the population didn't change very much since the 1950s. And the recent population spikes due to immigration must be a worry in a country that isn't known for the best infrastructure. At least the fertility rates seem to be significantly recovering since 2010. Regarding fertility Hungary is doing pretty well compared to similar size countries in Europe (e.g. Portugal).

In 2022, the population decline in Hungary was close to 1%, and the population fell back to 1953 levels.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comment … ngary_was/
-@Vicces1

That covers it.   Unsustainable.

There must be increasing numbers of empty properties in towns. Reminds me of those areas of the US where population decline means property owners bulldoze their houses to avoid property taxes and paying for roads maintenance etc. 

I read the other day, regionally, Bulgaria is really suffering from population decline.

I read the other day, regionally, Bulgaria is really suffering from population decline.
-@fluffy2560

It is countrywide. And it is massive. And it is a result of many people leaving for greener pastures. Within the EU a migration from poor countries to rich countries is taking place. Unfortunately, often those with some kind of useful qualification are leaving are actively being recruited (e.g. in the health sector).

In 2022, the population decline in Hungary was close to 1%, and the population fell back to 1953 levels.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comment … ngary_was/
-@Vicces1
Interesting. Looking at https://www.worldometers.info/world-pop … opulation/ I am surprised that the population didn't change very much since the 1950s. And the recent population spikes due to immigration must be a worry in a country that isn't known for the best infrastructure. At least the fertility rates seem to be significantly recovering since 2010. Regarding fertility Hungary is doing pretty well compared to similar size countries in Europe (e.g. Portugal).
-@nz7521137

Hungary is still below the replacement rate. Population decline is inevitable. It's the rate of decline that is important. Numbers of births is still way down here.  It's hard to say exactly what the reason is. Probably money and lack of social support.

We've got two kids still here. We did think about having three HU kids and I kind of regret that we didn't. Mrs F doesn't seem to be bothered. But we reluctantly agreed we were too old to have more. We'd be too doddery and decrepit by the time the 3rd one would need parents with energy to spare.

Unfortunately having two doesn't bring any government funding advantages but three does. So you're disadvantaged for having only two.  Discrimination really.  And of course, we're now working on how to finance elderly parents' care.

I read the other day, regionally, Bulgaria is really suffering from population decline.
-@fluffy2560
It is countrywide. And it is massive. And it is a result of many people leaving for greener pastures. Within the EU a migration from poor countries to rich countries is taking place. Unfortunately, often those with some kind of useful qualification are leaving are actively being recruited (e.g. in the health sector).
-@nz7521137

We can all understand that.  When the going gets tough, the tough get going.  Everyone is moving around. Even me.

When I interact with the health care system in the UK because of my Dad, I see all the lower end jobs being taken by people from Bangladesh, Nepal and so on.  Mid-range seems to be Indians or Filipinos. Rarely now it's someone from Poland, Hungary or Romania etc.    Consultants or docs in hospital can be anyone - German, Spanish, Dutch etc.   

Over here, I've only ever seen Hungarians in the clinics/hospitals.

I think some of the Asian people I see here in our village may be working at the local respite care hospital. I don't know how they communicate to do their jobs.  I will have to ask them when I see them walking past.

I watched two fairly new from 2022 documentaries on U tube about poverty in the UK.

I was really surprised.

They said about 1 in 5 people in the UK live below the poverty line.

That's allot .

Social beniefits have been reduced by 44% in recent years and many are struggling with what is called, "heat or eat" issues.

Why then does it seem every immigrant heads for the UK if it' that bad there?

IDK.

My 2nd cousin and her Hungarian husband( she was born in Hungary too) are both doctors who haved lived in Kent in the UK for over 25 years.

They both are research doctors working in labs.

In the US most nurses are from the Phillipines too.

That documentary also said the NHS is in big trouble.

People have to wait 13 weeks for an appointment, are given 10 mins. and can only discuss one medical issue per visit.

Having gone through the HU health system here over the past 20 months I was under the impression that medical care was better in the UK then here in HU.

Seems I maybe wrong?

I can walk into my professors office any time during working hours and get in the same day even if it takes an hour or so to see him.

I had a really stupid issue here though just about 2 weeks ago.

Huge mix up by the clerk who set up my test.

I requested a digital CT colonscope exam.

Just to have a base line to check out my systems after recovering from a serious illness and having my brother pass from colon cancer recently.

Good to know what one is dealing with.

Well they set the date, time, place etc. for me and the wait wasn't that long, perhaps just 4 weeks for a very expensive test.

Arrived 30 mins early as told to do.

The clerk said who ever set up my appointment put the wrong date down. I was suppse to be in the day before!

All written down in black and white but still a huge mix up.

That test was no joke, one had to drink a colon prep the day before, went without eating for well over 24 hours too.

They took me anyways but I had to wait around an extra 3 hours because other people got in first who's appointment date was not messed up.

I sometimes feel they have it in for me and do these things on purpose.

They wish to discourage people from asking for more then they think they want to give out.

Read my results ourselves online yesterday.

Seems I'm 100% fine overall! My illness can not be detected in any organs and all my organs are normal and healthy!

Can't get rid of me that easily it seems! All glory to the most high!!

Yes, one does have to give credit where it is due, I put all my trust in God and not these doctors.

These doctors almost did me in with giving me drugs I was allergic to.

No one wants to take responsiblity but they want all the credit when things go well.

We notice many couples with small children lately .2 at least and many  with one in the oven?

My best advice is to get a though check up and then do everything to avoid ever going back to a doctor.

Ask Nalvany about a fair Russian justice system. Ask all the oligarchs suddenly defenestrated for disagreeing with Putin. Or even shot and killed while walking in the street.

-@Vicces1
No, maybe ask Julian Assange instead. Or Edward Snowdon. Or those people that are incarcerated in Guantanamo. All excellent examples for that fair US/UK justice system.
-@nz7521137

Ask the millions who get fair trials and fair representation. And again, you mention nothing of those murdered/assassinated without a trial, something that does not happen in the EU.
Are you actually suggesting that you'd be handled more fairly under a Russian court than an EU court? Are you delusional?

As for some of the other comments -- you are fruit farmers -- cherry-picking your examples, and assuming you have all the rights that people fought to achieve for decades. China is known to heavily police and censor the internet. Go try posting Winnie the Pooh there. Russia invaded another sovereign country costing the lives of hundreds of thousands. Again, you hide behind your rich words and your ideals however misplaced and delusional they may be but you do so from a place that includes no sacrifice on your own part, nothing fought for. You fight daily? Really? You stand up to dictators and authoritarians? You have been personally attacked or stood up for others that have been? Show me. Show me one time that you protested anything that your hollow written words express from the comfort of your home, your laptop, while sipping your tea or coffee.

I agree that I am being harsh, but try being a woman in Afghanistan and then tell me about how Islam treats all people equally. Try being a young protestor in Iran where the courts sentenced over 500 youths to death for protesting -- and the "fashion police" are back roaming the streets. Try being gay in Uganda where laws were passed just for being gay and for anyone who supports gays. Then tell me how horribly oppressed you are. Can the EU and US do better? Sure they can. And they have processes to do so. What is the process for these countries to better themselves? There is none. So please stop the "relativism" of examples of poor behavior on both sides, it's a false dichotomy. They are not equal systems.
-@Vicces1

I always thought Japan was a modern country but their judicial system is out of the 1500's.

When accused of any crime and arressted one must stew for 23 days for each offence before being placed in front of a judge. There is no bail system.

You can hire a lawyer but your lawyer is not allowed in court with you.

You can be grilled for hours and days by police without breaks.

They basically mentally break you down till you confess, guilty or not.

Hench their 99% conviction rates.

I am speachless really, I now know why Japan is a safe country.No one dares speak up or act out.

I always thought Japan was a modern country but their judicial system is out of the 1500's.
When accused of any crime and arrested one must stew for 23 days for each offence before being placed in front of a judge. There is no bail system.
You can hire a lawyer but your lawyer is not allowed in court with you.
You can be grilled for hours and days by police without breaks.
They basically mentally break you down till you confess, guilty or not.
Hench their 99% conviction rates.
I am speechless really, I now know why Japan is a safe country.No one dares speak up or act out.
-@Marilyn Tassy

Japan is well known for it's unfair judicial system. Japan is not that technologically advanced either. I was there earlier this year and the only hi-tech thing I saw was a bizarre electronically controlled hotel toilet. It had all sorts of features you need a training course for. They must have the cleanest rear ends in the world. No buffing and polishing option though (!). Not sure what that would entail.

Anyway, Japan prison it's not a place you want to be. Not confessing is sure sign of guilt. Needs radical reform.

But the again, in hot weather Texas they kill you by cooking you alive in prisons with no airco. Over there in Lone Star republic, prison is a place of punishment and not rehabilitation. Who wants to waste taxpayer's money on comfort for jailbirds. No human rights needed.

Actually I read a note from The Economist this morning:

The number of Japanese citizens fell by 800,000 in 2022, the biggest annual decline since surveys began, new data showed. The country's birth rate also plummeted to a record low last year. Yet the number of foreigners resident in Japan rose to a record of nearly 3m. The government is drawing more foreign workers to the country and has made reversing the low birth rate a priority.

Same sort of population problem and migration as everywhere else.  As the number of foreigners increases, reforms will have to come in.

In 2022, the population decline in Hungary was close to 1%, and the population fell back to 1953 levels.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comment … ngary_was/
-@Vicces1
Interesting. Looking at https://www.worldometers.info/world-pop … opulation/ I am surprised that the population didn't change very much since the 1950s. And the recent population spikes due to immigration must be a worry in a country that isn't known for the best infrastructure. At least the fertility rates seem to be significantly recovering since 2010. Regarding fertility Hungary is doing pretty well compared to similar size countries in Europe (e.g. Portugal).
-@nz7521137

Hungary is still below the replacement rate. Population decline is inevitable. It's the rate of decline that is important. Numbers of births is still way down here. It's hard to say exactly what the reason is. Probably money and lack of social support.
-@fluffy2560

Only two very small countries in Europe have a fertility rate greater 2.0. Hungary has at least made some progress on this front since 2010, which is good.

Sustainability is just another word in the modern bullshit bingo with diversity being another one.

Out of the 6 children that lived, my mother was a grandmother of only 3 children.

3 of my siblings never reproduced.

My siblings range from their mid 50's to their mid 70's.

Yes, mom was very active! She loved babies.

Funny, at my eldest sisters wedding my mother was holding a one year old in her arms and about 7 months pregnant. I remember my one year old sister walked the day of the wedding for the first time.

Thought it usually was the bride who was expecting, not the mother of the bride.

I know I bought into the BS propagnada about overpopulation so only had one child,

Stupid, I know many couples who have been together long term who never had children. Mostly they were good looking healthy people too, would of made some nice offspring.

These couples are getting into their 70's now. I often wonder if they are now sorry they never had children.?

My brother just died and it now hits home a bit that his line is gone forever.He never had children. Worked hard all is life with no one to benefit from it except the gov.

Huge tax payer he was.

I had a dream a few days ago. I saw a baby girl with Japanese/Eureopean features.

If dreams could only come true!!

We are waiting for our son to grow up and have a child with his wife before we kick it.

I know my grandfather was nealry 50 when he became a first time father so there is always hope.

I watched two fairly new from 2022 documentaries on U tube about poverty in the UK.
I was really surprised.
They said about 1 in 5 people in the UK live below the poverty line.
That's allot .
Social beniefits have been reduced by 44% in recent years and many are struggling with what is called, "heat or eat" issues.
Why then does it seem every immigrant heads for the UK if it' that bad there?
IDK.
My 2nd cousin and her Hungarian husband( she was born in Hungary too) are both doctors who haved lived in Kent in the UK for over 25 years.
They both are research doctors working in labs.
In the US most nurses are from the Phillipines too.
That documentary also said the NHS is in big trouble.
People have to wait 13 weeks for an appointment, are given 10 mins. and can only discuss one medical issue per visit.
Having gone through the HU health system here over the past 20 months I was under the impression that medical care was better in the UK then here in HU.
-@Marilyn Tassy

Don't believe everything you read or see online about the NHS. Sure, it's in flux but it delivers 99.99% of the time. In an emergency, you'd be treated and it won't cost you anything at all. Always free at the point of care. No-one is checking anyone's insurance. And if you are over 60 in England and any age elsewhere in the UK, medicines/prescriptions are 100% free. 

NHS is a much loved institution in the UK.  People will defend it at all costs. It does need improvement but it is always there if you really need it.  If you are treated in a private hospital and it goes wrong, you'll wake up in an NHS hospital.  My BIL had an allergic reaction to penicillin during his heart bypass operation.  Only the NHS could take on his complex needs. Private hospitals just don't have the skills and resources.

I watched two fairly new from 2022 documentaries on U tube about poverty in the UK.
I was really surprised.
They said about 1 in 5 people in the UK live below the poverty line.
That's allot .
Social beniefits have been reduced by 44% in recent years and many are struggling with what is called, "heat or eat" issues.
Why then does it seem every immigrant heads for the UK if it' that bad there?
IDK.
My 2nd cousin and her Hungarian husband( she was born in Hungary too) are both doctors who haved lived in Kent in the UK for over 25 years.
They both are research doctors working in labs.
In the US most nurses are from the Phillipines too.
That documentary also said the NHS is in big trouble.
People have to wait 13 weeks for an appointment, are given 10 mins. and can only discuss one medical issue per visit.
Having gone through the HU health system here over the past 20 months I was under the impression that medical care was better in the UK then here in HU.
-@Marilyn Tassy

Don't believe everything you read about the NHS. Sure, it's in flux but it delivers 99.99% of the time. In an emergency, you'd be treated and it won't cost you anything at all. Always free at the point of care. No-one is checking anyone's insurance. And if you are over 60 in England and any age elsewhere in the UK, medicines/prescriptions are free. 
-@fluffy2560

They are checking now.....

The biggest problem with the NHS is waiting times for operations and getting to see a GP in a lot of areas.

In Wales, prescriptions are free for all ages.

My cousin lives in norhern Phillipines.He wrote to tell me today that they had a huge typhoon. Power was out for days.

His neighbors roof blew off so they are camping in his living room.

That has to be a mess.

He was in the process of doing some remodeling. Water started coming in through the windows.

He wanted to see a doctor because his throat hurts but has to put it off until things get a bit under control.

He has stage 4 throat cancer so it isn't great to wait.

Scary to not know if it's a regualr sore throat or the end.

I have no idea how the health system is over there.

I know a few years back he was being held hostage inside a run down hospital until he paid his $14,000 bill.

I really hope he has real coverage now.

It's so windy outside here today, it might be a typhoon as well.

Doesn't look like a swim week at all.

They are checking now.....

The biggest problem with the NHS is waiting times for operations and getting to see a GP in a lot of areas.
In Wales, prescriptions are free for all ages.
-@SimCityAT

I don't actually think they do check that much at UK A&E, especially for simple things.  I've been there numerous times with my Dad.  Apart from asking his name and DOB, no-one asked anything else about him.  They may of course already know as he's in the computer.   

Waiting times are a serious problem but it's government under funding.  No-one can blame the medical professionals leaving for Australia, Canada or NZ.

GPs also don't seem to be quite as good as they were before and I think they just don't have the time. But they don't seem to leave their offices. It's all HCAs (Health  Care Assistants) and paramedics who are doing front line work. That's just a stop gap measure. Needs some serious cash to make it work better. 

I have no idea how the health system is over there.
I know a few years back he was being held hostage inside a run down hospital until he paid his $14,000 bill.
I really hope he has real coverage now.
It's so windy outside here today, it might be a typhoon as well.
Doesn't look like a swim week at all.
-@Marilyn Tassy

That's something you'll never see in the UK NHS system.  A bill.

Couple of years ago, I had an ear problem from diving in that region. Went to a clinic. Doc was from the Philippines.  She looked at my ear and gave me some antibiotics and painkillers.  Cost $20.  I thought I'd dodged a bullet on that one. Way below my travel insurance excess/deductible.

I watched two fairly new from 2022 documentaries on U tube about poverty in the UK.
I was really surprised.
They said about 1 in 5 people in the UK live below the poverty line.
That's allot .
Social beniefits have been reduced by 44% in recent years and many are struggling with what is called, "heat or eat" issues.
Why then does it seem every immigrant heads for the UK if it' that bad there?
IDK.
My 2nd cousin and her Hungarian husband( she was born in Hungary too) are both doctors who haved lived in Kent in the UK for over 25 years.
They both are research doctors working in labs.
In the US most nurses are from the Phillipines too.
That documentary also said the NHS is in big trouble.
People have to wait 13 weeks for an appointment, are given 10 mins. and can only discuss one medical issue per visit.
Having gone through the HU health system here over the past 20 months I was under the impression that medical care was better in the UK then here in HU.
-@Marilyn Tassy

Don't believe everything you read or see online about the NHS. Sure, it's in flux but it delivers 99.99% of the time. In an emergency, you'd be treated and it won't cost you anything at all. Always free at the point of care. No-one is checking anyone's insurance. And if you are over 60 in England and any age elsewhere in the UK, medicines/prescriptions are 100% free.

NHS is a much loved institution in the UK. People will defend it at all costs. It does need improvement but it is always there if you really need it. If you are treated in a private hospital and it goes wrong, you'll wake up in an NHS hospital. My BIL had an allergic reaction to penicillin during his heart bypass operation. Only the NHS could take on his complex needs. Private hospitals just don't have the skills and resources.
-@fluffy2560

The NHS does what it says on the tin; provides a National Health Service that's free to all at the point of delivery (many ex-pats have to pay upfront as part of their residence permit).  How good, bad or indifferent the service is depends on your needs.  Personally, I have no complaints, but I'm married to the Practice Nurse and our youngest daughter is a Community Nurse; to top it off, I worked in a regulatory position for the NHS for 20 years, so overall, we know what's where and who to ask (it's not what you know, but very much who you know).  It does have its downside; lots of good things are being researched, new medicines and treatments, the only problem is they have no people or infrastructure to implement them.  Before I retired I was going through an audit result with the Head of Pharmacy for one of the UK's University Hospitals; they had failed on 2 aspects that needed my help; the department head took me to the pharmacy, waved his arms around and asked if I saw anybody sat there doing nothing - I couldn't, he then told me that in order to implement the changes needed to be compliant, he would need 2 more members of staff and he told me that if he could afford that, he would employ more pharmacists, not administrators to make the paperwork compliant.  Fair point I thought, so it was left at that, I suspect nothing much has changed in the time since then.  The problem is the NHS is too expensive, every time they need to implement a new "thing", it needs new medical staff, new medical support structures, new buildings, new HR support, and new transport requirements, they all become little fiefdoms - all very good at what they do, but there is no economy of scale.  There is no national process on how to do it, each Trust is left to do its own thing, its own way; it's crying out for somebody to be in charge, to tell people how they are going to do something, to lead by example - it will never happen.

Last week someone from my hometown posted a photo of Dr. J.O. Jones!

Almost a saint of a doctor from our town. ( Litle ol' Simi Valley)

They just don't make them like that any longer, they broke the mold.

A simple country doctor who used to deliver babies do emergency care and never overcharged .

He did it all within his refurbished little house from the 1930's.

Turned the old place into his office.

His SIL ran the front desk, his brother did all the x-rays .

A real family medical center.

First doctor in our town to set up an office.

He built the first big hospital in our town and didn't put his name on it.

He was a man of God and never did anything just for pure profit.

He would even decline some services by saying it would heal on it's own etc.

He sent out letters over the many years telling his patients why he had to riase his fees if he ever had to.

All in detail.

He went as high as $20. a visit and put a cap on it.

Often he got other members of his church to cover for him in his ofice when he took a vacation,His vacation was to travel to Africa and give his services for free to those in need.

Never drove a big fancy car, had a middle class car in his lot and was the most humble of people.

In the old days he treated mostly Mexican workers who worked in the orange fields. He would take a chicken or a homemade dinner as payment when he knew these people couldn't afford his fee.

Whenever we saw him everyone no matter who they were of their age would see him as a grandfather.

His ego was in check, if an issue was too much for him he would refer people to a specialist.Almost never happened because he could handle any situation and be calm about it.

No, health care is terrible these days. Too passe and none caring.

Just refused more new patients in his older age and never charged more then $20 for a visit.

His visits included, jokes, questions about your fmaily etc.

No rush job, you go the ,"full monty" with him.

He treated our family for well over 30 plus years.

They are checking now.....

The biggest problem with the NHS is waiting times for operations and getting to see a GP in a lot of areas.
In Wales, prescriptions are free for all ages.
-@SimCityAT

I don't actually think they do check that much at UK A&E, especially for simple things. I've been there numerous times with my Dad. Apart from asking his name and DOB, no-one asked anything else about him. They may of course already know as he's in the computer. 

Waiting times are a serious problem but it's government under funding. No-one can blame the medical professionals leaving for Australia, Canada or NZ.

GPs also don't seem to be quite as good as they were before and I think they just don't have the time. But they don't seem to leave their offices. It's all HCAs (Health Care Assistants) and paramedics who are doing front line work. That's just a stop gap measure. Needs some serious cash to make it work better.
-@fluffy2560

GP's only have 9 minutes per patient.

Out of the 6 children that lived, my mother was a grandmother of only 3 children.
3 of my siblings never reproduced.
My siblings range from their mid 50's to their mid 70's.
Yes, mom was very active! She loved babies.
Funny, at my eldest sisters wedding my mother was holding a one year old in her arms and about 7 months pregnant. I remember my one year old sister walked the day of the wedding for the first time.
Thought it usually was the bride who was expecting, not the mother of the bride.
I know I bought into the BS propagnada about overpopulation so only had one child,
Stupid, I know many couples who have been together long term who never had children. Mostly they were good looking healthy people too, would of made some nice offspring.
These couples are getting into their 70's now. I often wonder if they are now sorry they never had children.?
My brother just died and it now hits home a bit that his line is gone forever.He never had children. Worked hard all is life with no one to benefit from it except the gov.
Huge tax payer he was.
I had a dream a few days ago. I saw a baby girl with Japanese/Eureopean features.
If dreams could only come true!!
We are waiting for our son to grow up and have a child with his wife before we kick it.
I know my grandfather was nealry 50 when he became a first time father so there is always hope.
-@Marilyn Tassy

It seems that the priority of the last decades and today is the idea that women need to have an education and a professional career to be valued by society. There was a time when one person working full time (usually the man) was able to support a family of 4 or 5. That was followed by a time when only less children could be financed and then the wife needed to work. That was even more necessary when materialism started to rule and everybody wanted to have everything. Considering all this I am already surprised that the Hungarian government was able to increase the fertility rates a little bit.

I don't actually think they do check that much at UK A&E, especially for simple things. I've been there numerous times with my Dad. Apart from asking his name and DOB, no-one asked anything else about him. They may of course already know as he's in the computer. 

Waiting times are a serious problem but it's government under funding. No-one can blame the medical professionals leaving for Australia, Canada or NZ.

GPs also don't seem to be quite as good as they were before and I think they just don't have the time. But they don't seem to leave their offices. It's all HCAs (Health Care Assistants) and paramedics who are doing front line work. That's just a stop gap measure. Needs some serious cash to make it work better.
-@fluffy2560

I think that this is a big error of our time. People, especially "our leaders" believe that everything can be fixed with money. But doctors and nurses and their attitudes to their jobs cannot be created and modified with a money printing machine. The same is true for teachers.

GP's only have 9 minutes per patient.
-@SimCityAT

I think it creeps up according to age.  Obviously the older you are the more you need.

My Daddio got a lot more from his GP before he was moved to a care home and different arrangements.

I think that this is a big error of our time. People, especially "our leaders" believe that everything can be fixed with money. But doctors and nurses and their attitudes to their jobs cannot be created and modified with a money printing machine. The same is true for teachers.
-@nz7521137

NHS and UK:

The problem in the UK - like everywhere else - is that costs are rising. Medics still have to pay their bills and housing like everyone else.  But they can leave for another, better life abroad unlike patients. Teachers too can just give up work (most not the breadwinner, mainly women part time) unlike the kids they teach who need to be educated regardless. But then who delivers those services to a sufficient level as is required?

HU:

There's going to be a big showdown in HU when the schools start up again in September. The teachers are resigning in droves. OV continues to blame the EU for the teacher cash crunch meaning he cannot pay the teachers.  It's absolutely unconnected.

BTW, there's an ongoing rumour going around that OV is going to seize people's cash at the bank and issue them with a government bond. We've heard some people have already moved their cash assets abroad.  This bond issuance could happen as soon as August. But I cannot find any serious details on it. Just gossip - needs some triangulation on sources. But it sounds like a section of the population is going to be very very unhappy.