Absolutely Anything Else

GP's only have 9 minutes per patient.
-@SimCityAT

I get between 15 minutes and 30 minutes with my doctor for a co-payment of EUR 17,00 with my GP or specialist.

Interesting points. Especially as they have nothing to do with OV.

.....

-@nz7521137

I cleared it up for you as you seem to be having trouble.

NHS and UK:  Yes, UK but also applies here.

HU:

WTF?

It's all to do with OV. 

He's the one running the country.

if not him, then who is it to do with?

Soros?  Or some Western anti-Christian cabal of children topped pizza cannibals?

GP's only have 9 minutes per patient.
-@SimCityAT
I get between 15 minutes and 30 minutes with my doctor for a co-payment of EUR 17,00 with my GP or specialist.
-@nz7521137

You have to talk fast in the UK and best to be succint.  But really the 9 minutes usually turns into more of course as people have mutiple conditions. The 9 minutes is just budget related.  Costs nothing of course at the end.  There's no system of co-pays.

Sinead O'Connor dies aged 56

Sinéad O'Connor obituary

Sinead O'Connor dies aged 56


Sinéad O'Connor obituary
-@SimCityAT

Did you like her music?  I wasn't a fan but sorry to see her pass.  I think she was a tortured soul.  RIP.

I did like some of her stuff, but she was a troubled soul, and never got over the death of her son.

I did like some of her stuff, but she was a troubled soul, and never got over the death of her son.
-@SimCityAT

I heard about her son.

Why he checked out, no idea.

I'm speculating but it sounds like she may have done herself in given her history of depression etc.

@fluffy2560 Whoa, you are really a classical example for a hater. I would suggest you don't get all carried away over OV.

Sinead O'Connor dies aged 56


Sinéad O'Connor obituary
-@SimCityAT

Indeed a very troubled artist. I liked some of her music, but have not listened to her for a long time.

I did like some of her stuff, but she was a troubled soul, and never got over the death of her son.
-@SimCityAT

I heard about her son.

Why he checked out, no idea.

I'm speculating but it sounds like she may have done herself in given her history of depression etc.
-@fluffy2560

It will be suicide or an overdose, I guess we will have to wait and see the outcome.

BTW, there's an ongoing rumour going around that OV is going to seize people's cash at the bank and issue them with a government bond. We've heard some people have already moved their cash assets abroad. This bond issuance could happen as soon as August. But I cannot find any serious details on it. Just gossip - needs some triangulation on sources. But it sounds like a section of the population is going to be very very unhappy.
-@fluffy2560

I assume that this isn't a top secret rumour and many know by now. This happened more than once in history when a state ran out of money, but I suspect it is just another smear campaign against the elected government. Still, I would always discourage putting all eggs into one nest.

BTW, there's an ongoing rumour going around that OV is going to seize people's cash at the bank and issue them with a government bond. We've heard some people have already moved their cash assets abroad. This bond issuance could happen as soon as August. But I cannot find any serious details on it. Just gossip - needs some triangulation on sources. But it sounds like a section of the population is going to be very very unhappy.
-@fluffy2560

I did post a news article about it a while ago, no idea which subforum I posted it on.

They are checking now.....

The biggest problem with the NHS is waiting times for operations and getting to see a GP in a lot of areas.
In Wales, prescriptions are free for all ages.
-@SimCityAT

I don't actually think they do check that much at UK A&E, especially for simple things. I've been there numerous times with my Dad. Apart from asking his name and DOB, no-one asked anything else about him. They may of course already know as he's in the computer.

Waiting times are a serious problem but it's government under funding. No-one can blame the medical professionals leaving for Australia, Canada or NZ.

GPs also don't seem to be quite as good as they were before and I think they just don't have the time. But they don't seem to leave their offices. It's all HCAs (Health Care Assistants) and paramedics who are doing front line work. That's just a stop gap measure. Needs some serious cash to make it work better.
-@fluffy2560

GP's only have 9 minutes per patient.
-@SimCityAT

Hi again.

Just to add a bit more to what I previously wrote.

The NHS in the UK is really split into 2 major parts (Acute and Integrated Care Boards (formerly Clinical Commissioning Group); simply described as the former being the Hospitals, the latter being the organisation that manages the GP network.) and some other specialised activities; Mental Health and some Social support being the most well-known.   I should also mention that no GPs are actually owned by the NHS, they are all effectively private companies that are commissioned by the ICBs to provide Community Clinical services; I'm not going to go into great detail on funding, but if you really want more information; this link will take you to the Kings Fund website that explains it all in detail.  The GP network is regulated by the Care Quality Commission, which audits individual site(s) on behalf of the ICB; they check that the individual surgeries are providing the services they are being paid to do.

GP practices are currently under public scrutiny.  First I need to burst a couple of myths.

• Nobody has their own GP, they are funded based on the number of patients on their books, currently £163.68 per patient/year.  The number of patients is split equally between the Group Partnership - the people that own the Company  (they have 9 where my wife works, looking after 33,000 patients) and this is where people's misconception of having their own doctor arises.  So their base annual income is £5.3 million; in addition, they get paid extra for specific extras (known as The Quality and Outcomes Framework), or colloquially as QOF; find out what this covers at this link.  In general, it covers professional training which is one of the QOF items, plus other specialist services (too many to list here, but they are all listed in the link).  So, the annual income plus QOF points pays the mortgage on the premises and all the doctors, nurses plus admin support salaries.  In simple terms, the partners effectively borrow money from the bank to buy the premises, which they get to sell their little bit of to whoever replaces them when they retire.  So these are the Partners, in addition to which some will have "salaried GPs" on the payroll; these can be any qualified doctor, but it is not unusual to find a partner moonlighting in other activities, one of which can be acting as a salaried GP for another practice on their days off.  Other moonlighting activities include Private medicine, industry and sporting activities.
• Getting to see a doctor; is an emotive subject, not helped by the fact that many people want to see a Doctor, not a receptionist, or a nurse etc.  The fact is that what a doctor excels at is diagnostics, it's what they spend 5 years in training to do, to weigh up all of your symptoms and then come up with some treatment to make you better.  For the rest of it, for example, if you have a known condition that has already been diagnosed by a Doctor, then you are much better off seeing one of the Nursing Team, they have much more experience in treating illnesses than a doctor; if they see anything of concern not previously on your notes they will tell the doctor.  More recently, they have introduced the Practitioner into Healthcare, they specialise in things such as Nursing, Physio, Paramedics etc, you see them everywhere nowadays; in many respects, they are the same as doctors and can prescribe medication related to their skill set.  Using me as an example, I have healthcare issues, my wife is not allowed to treat me, but I get an annual review from a colleague Nurse Practitioner who goes through all my issues and if he/she is happy, my repeat prescription gets signed off for another year and the pharmacy deliver them to my door every month; it works very well.  On the occasions when I have needed to see a doctor (once in the past 5 years), the Nurse Practitioner can add me to the appointment list.  If the person who answers the phone, or in reception asks you what the problem is, they are doing it for one reason, to point you to the person who can help you.  The NHS does not have doctors and nurses manning reception or working the phone system.
• Time slots; the national figure sounds like 10 minutes per patient, this is multiplied up for every activity/condition, so if you go for a blood test and an ECG, you get 20 minutes; this is for everything, the chat, the assessment, the prescribing and writing up your notes.  People should be aware that like many healthcare systems around the world, the NHS uses triage medicine (it's not new, it's been around since the Korean War), so your problems are assessed by someone who has been trained in doing this and you are pointed towards the person best placed to do this.

To finish, Doctors/Dentists no longer sign passport applications, they don't have the time; strangely if somebody I know wants a passport application signed off, I can do it, I hold a Royal Warrant and am on the exclusive list of people who can authorise a passport (and I don't charge for it).

Out of the 6 children that lived, my mother was a grandmother of only 3 children.
3 of my siblings never reproduced.
My siblings range from their mid 50's to their mid 70's.
Yes, mom was very active! She loved babies.
Funny, at my eldest sisters wedding my mother was holding a one year old in her arms and about 7 months pregnant. I remember my one year old sister walked the day of the wedding for the first time.
Thought it usually was the bride who was expecting, not the mother of the bride.
I know I bought into the BS propagnada about overpopulation so only had one child,
Stupid, I know many couples who have been together long term who never had children. Mostly they were good looking healthy people too, would of made some nice offspring.
These couples are getting into their 70's now. I often wonder if they are now sorry they never had children.?
My brother just died and it now hits home a bit that his line is gone forever.He never had children. Worked hard all is life with no one to benefit from it except the gov.
Huge tax payer he was.
I had a dream a few days ago. I saw a baby girl with Japanese/Eureopean features.
If dreams could only come true!!
We are waiting for our son to grow up and have a child with his wife before we kick it.
I know my grandfather was nealry 50 when he became a first time father so there is always hope.
-@Marilyn Tassy
It seems that the priority of the last decades and today is the idea that women need to have an education and a professional career to be valued by society. There was a time when one person working full time (usually the man) was able to support a family of 4 or 5. That was followed by a time when only less children could be financed and then the wife needed to work. That was even more necessary when materialism started to rule and everybody wanted to have everything. Considering all this I am already surprised that the Hungarian government was able to increase the fertility rates a little bit.
-@nz7521137

In 1962 my mother worked full time was retrained to do percision sodering for the gov. in the aircraft field.

She supported 4 children and the dog alone, never asked for any sort of gov. aid which she could have done.

She put allot of energy into making sure all her girls could support themselves married or not.

She enrolled me into beauty collage. She paid for it although I later trransfered to another collage and had to pay for it myself.

My now deceased sister had an I.Q. of over 145. She was a classic underachiever( I think most people are).

Eldest sister went to collage, married a chemistry student who was 7 years older then she.

He had a BA degree and a Masters degree but was still in school trying to become a professor of chemistry.

She got sick of supporting them for 6-7 years and just left for the UK and got a divorce.

Marrying to get away from work is not the good plan.

My HU husbands 2 sisters are rather book smart ladies.

One taught in a Budapest uni as a chemistry teacher.

The other was full of resentment because she was not able to attend college.

She was the supervisor in a pattern cutting factory but that wasn't high enough for her.

Miserable person really.

She put all her energy into making sure her daughter had a good eduaction. Her daughter basiclally settled to be a housewife in the long run.

Just finished a chat with our son in Japan.

I asked how much they pay for health care there.

He is not clear, his wife pays it, but smehwere between $300. to $400. per year for both of them.

Most visits are free, depending on what is done Might have to pay $10. $40.

I know in the US I went into a dental office with my son.

He had some issue with his gums.

They looked at his teeth then the dentist sent him over to a credit officer to set up a payemnt plan. They wanted to charge over $1,700 to clean up his gums with scrapping.

Forget it!

In Japan they did the work for only $10. per visit and it was fast, just 2 visits and dne.

They made it out in the US like it was the end of the world and put pressure on him that his teeth would fall out if he didn't go with their plan.

Lies.

I think from what I now Japan is very good with health care.I know if a person is getting chemo they will admit them into the hospital until all their treatments are over with. Keep them closely watched and make sure they thrive and don't suffer from any serisous side effects befre getting aid.

They even combine tradiaitonal health care with holistic care.

Their judicail system is from the 1500's but their medical care seems light years ahead of many other countries.

In Hungary it depends on the doctor as to hw much time they spend with you.

I saw a gynocologist a couple months ago who did an exam, then looked at my medical history and spent well over 45 mins with me.

My oncologist barely gives time enough to sit down before he is opening the door for you to leave.

I see that as good though, it means all is fine and he has more serious illnesses to deal with.

I did like some of her stuff, but she was a troubled soul, and never got over the death of her son.
-@SimCityAT

May she RIP.

I can understand how difficult it must of been for her to lose her son.

I will have to read more about her death. Just found out right now.

She had a beautiful voice and will be missed by many.

Just finished a chat with our son in Japan.
I asked how much they pay for health care there.
He is not clear, his wife pays it, but smehwere between $300. to $400. per year for both of them.
Most visits are free, depending on what is done Might have to pay $10. $40.
I know in the US I went into a dental office with my son.
He had some issue with his gums.
They looked at his teeth then the dentist sent him over to a credit officer to set up a payemnt plan. They wanted to charge over $1,700 to clean up his gums with scrapping.
Forget it!
In Japan they did the work for only $10. per visit and it was fast, just 2 visits and dne.
They made it out in the US like it was the end of the world and put pressure on him that his teeth would fall out if he didn't go with their plan.
Lies.
I think from what I now Japan is very good with health care.I know if a person is getting chemo they will admit them into the hospital until all their treatments are over with. Keep them closely watched and make sure they thrive and don't suffer from any serisous side effects befre getting aid.
They even combine tradiaitonal health care with holistic care.
Their judicail system is from the 1500's but their medical care seems light years ahead of many other countries.
In Hungary it depends on the doctor as to how much time they spend with you.
I saw a gynocologist a couple months ago who did an exam, then looked at my medical history and spent well over 45 mins with me.
My oncologist barely gives time enough to sit down before he is opening the door for you to leave.
I see that as good though, it means all is fine and he has more serious illnesses to deal with.
-@Marilyn Tassy

In all fairness, I was offered to stay in hospital here in Hungary for 5 days when I was given some chemo.I refused, no one explained how dangerous it could be .

I found myself in the hospital just 6 days later.

I was allergic to it and it could of been fatal, in fact for a few days I thought I'd never leave that isolation room.

It was c-19 time so they had to keep me away from everyone to protect me from any infections.

It wasn't fun but then again it wasn't as horrible as I thought it would be.

I shared my private room with a spider! Perhaps more then one.

The hospital roms here are straight out of the 1950's. Very basic, no internet worked in my room, no tv,just a window with a view of a tree. Had a private bathroom and shower. Lowest water pressure in the world.

I suppoose though if one is very ill, a fancy room is the least of their worries.

Hungary defo need more funds but everyone at that point was serious and took decent care of me within their means.

I am grateful to Hungary.

My friend 's husband in the US had the same illness as I and although never went into the hospital was still charged $98,000! Well medicare was, he had to pay in $9,800 of it

Got his bill reduced to $7,000 but still...ouch that hurts!

BTW, there's an ongoing rumour going around that OV is going to seize people's cash at the bank and issue them with a government bond. We've heard some people have already moved their cash assets abroad. This bond issuance could happen as soon as August. But I cannot find any serious details on it. Just gossip - needs some triangulation on sources. But it sounds like a section of the population is going to be very very unhappy.
-@fluffy2560

I did post a news article about it a while ago, no idea which subforum I posted it on.
-@SimCityAT

Please share any futher info if you know of it.

Was thinking of trasfering a few bucks over here but maybe we should wait ?

The dollar exchange rates aren't that great right now anyways.

We in the past thought about putting say $10,000 or so in a HU gov. bond because the interest rates seemed alright.

Just sitting in a US bank is doing nothing for us.

It's sometimes weird to live here and have everything in the US.

We don't really turst any financial system but we tend to trust the old green back more then the forint.

Money the root of all evil. Have to little and life is a worry, have to much and one worries about losing it all.

I'd much perfer to just spend it all but my husband puts the reins on that.

@fluffy2560 Whoa, you are really a classical example for a hater. I would suggest you don't get all carried away over OV.
-@nz7521137

If I said I vehemently disagreed with Pol Pot or someone similar would you say the same thing?

Apart from trying to label me, what else you got?

Anyway, I should say Mrs F says that street gossip is now voicing opinions rejecting OV. Mainly it seems to be about the cash grab/government bond rumour.  So there is a chance this one breaks the camel's back - if it's true.

@Cynic Many thanks. That was very interesting. This, combined with what I hear from UK friends gives a much better picture for me.

Anyway, I should say Mrs F says that street gossip is now voicing opinions rejecting OV. Mainly it seems to be about the cash grab/government bond rumour. So there is a chance this one breaks the camel's back - if it's true.
-@fluffy2560

The thing is that it doesn't need to be true. The rumour in the streets might be enough. I know that even a well placed (maybe social media or MSM) lie can be sufficient to end a career. EU and US and UK want OV gone for different reasons.

To finish, Doctors/Dentists no longer sign passport applications, they don't have the time; strangely if somebody I know wants a passport application signed off, I can do it, I hold a Royal Warrant and am on the exclusive list of people who can authorise a passport (and I don't charge for it).
-@Cynic

Not sure what that means as we've always just used people we know.  They can be anyone really doesn't have to be doctor, priest, police person.  Could just be an ordinary civil servant.

We've even used non-UK nationals to sign off too when you used to be able to get a passport at an embassy - we didn't have a British or Commonwealth citizen to hand then.  That particular person was a Hungarian Doctor of Economics. 

Mainly it seems acceptable for anyone to do it so long as they had a different family name and a British passport that can be tracked. 

And it's all done electronically and online.

Anyway, I should say Mrs F says that street gossip is now voicing opinions rejecting OV. Mainly it seems to be about the cash grab/government bond rumour. So there is a chance this one breaks the camel's back - if it's true.
-@fluffy2560
The thing is that it doesn't need to be true. The rumour in the streets might be enough. I know that even a well placed (maybe social media or MSM) lie can be sufficient to end a career. EU and US and UK want OV gone for different reasons.
-@nz7521137

Well, looks like more people seem to want OV gone.   But they do it to themselves.  It's the same old story each time.  They all get stale and have nothing new to offer.

Apparently, the President of HU -  one of OV's toadies - was posting messages about how much she enjoys summers at Balaton, adding very bizarrely, that you can only have such fun at Balaton because Hungary is in the unique position of having Balaton.  Nowhere else has Balaton. Oh really?  WTF?   Obviously she wasn't the one using the brain cell that day.  Needless to say, there was much merriment and sarcasm following her posts.

I don't think anyone wants OV there anymore except the usual suspects - Erdogan, Putin, Lukashenko etc.  And their days are numbered anyway.   Luckily Spain didn't go all the way right in last week's elections. Remains to be seen if Italy's Meloni can keep up her rhetoric on migrants while hobnobbing with Biden this week.

BTW, there's an ongoing rumour going around that OV is going to seize people's cash at the bank and issue them with a government bond. We've heard some people have already moved their cash assets abroad. This bond issuance could happen as soon as August. But I cannot find any serious details on it. Just gossip - needs some triangulation on sources. But it sounds like a section of the population is going to be very very unhappy.
-@fluffy2560

I did post a news article about it a while ago, no idea which subforum I posted it on.
-@SimCityAT
Please share any further info if you know of it.
Was thinking of transfering a few bucks over here but maybe we should wait ?
The dollar exchange rates aren't that great right now anyways.
We in the past thought about putting say $10,000 or so in a HU gov. bond because the interest rates seemed alright.
Just sitting in a US bank is doing nothing for us.
It's sometimes weird to live here and have everything in the US.
We don't really trust any financial system but we tend to trust the old green back more then the forint.
Money the root of all evil. Have to little and life is a worry, have to much and one worries about losing it all.
I'd much prefer to just spend it all but my husband puts the reins on that.
-@Marilyn Tassy

Personally I wouldn't bring money into HU right now.   I certainly wouldn't want to be holding too many HUF either.  The USD and EUR are OK but holding those IN Hungary, not so sure about that. 

We might know more after September when the teacher crisis comes to a crunch and OV's hand is forced.  By that time it'll be too late to get cash out.  If there was a move on cash holdings, the EU, IMF and others might have something to say about it.  It could stall the economy.  No-one could do anything.

This is of course, all speculation.

Well, looks like more people seem to want OV gone.  But they do it to themselves. It's the same old story each time. They all get stale and have nothing new to offer.

-@fluffy2560

Whatever the majority of the voting Hungarians want should be implemented and respected. The the voting majority wants OV gone, fine with me. If he stays, also fine with me. Fortunately many people have understood about the externally funded colour revolutions and are a bit more careful.

To finish, Doctors/Dentists no longer sign passport applications, they don't have the time; strangely if somebody I know wants a passport application signed off, I can do it, I hold a Royal Warrant and am on the exclusive list of people who can authorise a passport (and I don't charge for it).
-@Cynic

Not sure what that means as we've always just used people we know. They can be anyone really doesn't have to be doctor, priest, police person. Could just be an ordinary civil servant.

We've even used non-UK nationals to sign off too when you used to be able to get a passport at an embassy - we didn't have a British or Commonwealth citizen to hand then. That particular person was a Hungarian Doctor of Economics.

Mainly it seems acceptable for anyone to do it so long as they had a different family name and a British passport that can be tracked.

And it's all done electronically and online.
-@fluffy2560

Think you may not understand the requirements (link); the system you describe doctor, priest etc still exists, to quote the regs "countersignatory must be a person of good standing in their community' or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession, it then goes on to list the professions, mine is right at the bottom of that list.  In addition to this, there are currently additional requirements if you're applying from outside the UK:

UK Gov Website wrote:

If you're applying outside the UK

Your countersignatory must have a current British, Irish or other EU, US or Commonwealth passport.

If they have a US, Commonwealth, or non-British or non-Irish EU passport, you must include with your application a colour photocopy of the page with their photograph on it.

Your application will be processed faster if they have a British or Irish passport.

So, the guy who signed yours (the  Hungarian Doctor of Economics) would have qualified, but Fred the Hungarian roadsweeper would not.

It's not only the Brits who do silly things with passports, my wife's Dutch passport expired next May; in order to renew it would have meant her taking 2 days off work, a train from North Yorkshire down to the NL Embassy in London (the NL consulates in Leeds and Hull who she previously used, no longer do passports) one night in a Travel Inn, and she would have had to go through similar hoops for her counter-signatory.  We got around it by nipping into the Gemeente where we got married when we were in Holland a few weeks ago and renewing it there, they did it on the spot; the guy who married us all those years ago still works there, he counter-signed her form.

Think you may not understand the requirements (link); the system you describe doctor, priest etc still exists, to quote the regs "countersignatory must be a person of good standing in their community' or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession, it then goes on to list the professions, mine is right at the bottom of that list. In addition to this, there are currently additional requirements if you're applying from outside the UK:

UK Gov Website wrote:If you're applying outside the UK

Your countersignatory must have a current British, Irish or other EU, US or Commonwealth passport.

If they have a US, Commonwealth, or non-British or non-Irish EU passport, you must include with your application a colour photocopy of the page with their photograph on it.

Your application will be processed faster if they have a British or Irish passport.

So, the guy who signed yours (the Hungarian Doctor of Economics) would have qualified, but Fred the Hungarian roadsweeper would not.

It's not only the Brits who do silly things with passports, my wife's Dutch passport expired next May; in order to renew it would have meant her taking 2 days off work, a train from North Yorkshire down to the NL Embassy in London (the NL consulates in Leeds and Hull who she previously used, no longer do passports) one night in a Travel Inn, and she would have had to go through similar hoops for her counter-signatory. We got around it by nipping into the Gemeente where we got married when we were in Holland a few weeks ago and renewing it there, they did it on the spot; the guy who married us all those years ago still works there, he counter-signed her form.
-@Cynic

The US citizen thing seems a new one.

We've not had to apply for brand new first application UK passports for sometime so the regulations probably have changed.  We're into renewals but that's for 5 year validity for kids which is just a PITA, especially for teenagers. We have no more new kids with new applications so no more counter-signatories I suppose. So it's mainly photo updates and there are now no paper forms as it's all online. We just take photos with a smartphone. Easily good enough.

One annoyance is dealing with dual nationality. We had to scan and attach colour copies of the other passports. Hungarians didn't ask for any of that. I don't see it's any of the UK's business.

HU passports are like in NL. Just go around to the government office and they do the photos etc. Passport turns up in the post a few days later. Be better if they just gave it on the spot. They are pretty cavalier about it. One of our kids baby passport photo had a pair of thumbs in it as we had to hold the baby up to the camera. It was a source of some amusement.

Fred the roadsweeper could have been re-classified as Lajos the civil servant and they would have been OK with that.

Please share any further info if you know of it.
Was thinking of transferring a few bucks over here but maybe we should wait ?
The dollar exchange rates aren't that great right now anyways.
We in the past thought about putting say $10,000 or so in a HU gov. bond because the interest rates seemed alright.
...
-@Marilyn Tassy

Government bonds issue - I found this from June 2023 on Yahoo, click here (cached pages).  It doesn't say it will be compulsory but it's only a short step to forcefully appropriate savers cash. If it does happen, it'll happen out of the blue.   OVs arguments are quite suspect - there's no war in Hungary and inflation is far lower in the Eurozone.  What they must have been doing is borrowing to finance giveaways and corruption at election time.   The levy they've implemented is going to make capital move abroad.

Hungary's Orban Becomes Chief Marketer of EMEA's Best Bonds

(Bloomberg) -- Prime Minister Viktor Orban is intensifying efforts to get Hungarians to put their savings in government bonds rather than bank deposits, appealing to their patriotism while pledging to “crush” inflation.

Orban's cabinet has tightened limits on fund managers' ability to invest in assets other than government debt and it's introducing a new 13% levy on interest gains from bank savings. In his weekly radio address aired on Friday, Orban referenced the proximity of Russia's invasion in Ukraine as he made another appeal for Hungarians to lend their money to the Treasury.

“In times of war, you can support your country by keeping your savings in government bonds and bills,” Orban said.

The yield on Hungary's 10-year bonds has dropped to 7.2% from peaks above 10% last year, making them the best performers among bonds tracked by Bloomberg in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. Analysts at Goldman Sachs wrote in a report dated Thursday that Hungary's local-currency bonds are among those with the most to gain from a disinflationary trend across emerging markets.

With the central bank starting to cut key interest rates, Orban is stepping up his calls to domestic savers to help plug financing gaps. Meanwhile the local currency, the forint, has been weakening this week after touching a 14-month high on Monday, dropping as much as 1.5% in a single session on Thursday.

Inflation Battle

The new levy on savings came as part of an array of tax hikes to bring Hungary's budget deficit below 3% of gross domestic product in 2024. Hungary had a record shortfall in the first five months of 2023.

The nation's economic outlook is marred by the highest inflation rate in the European Union, which Orban has blamed on the fallout from the war in Ukraine. The premier, Russia's closest ally in the EU, reaffirmed his commitment to bringing inflation below 10% by the end of the year and to introduce additional measures if needed.

“Inflation won't come down by itself,” he said. “We must pull it down, crush it and pummel it.”

The pace of price increases slowed for a fourth month but remained above an annual 20% in May. Orban's influential economy minister suggested earlier this week that the central bank should consider raising its 3% inflation target as it's getting out of reach."

A good explanation why the inflation is so high in Hungary would be interesting. I mean more than "because OV is so evil". Why are the prices in the basket rising so much in Hungary? Is it because of lots of imports and bad exchange rates? Is that a main reason?

I remember that there is a tool available that allows to calculate the personal inflation by putting together your own "basket". How much can one influence ones own Inflation?

Portugal has reduced the VAT on many food items to 0%. They also gave a rebate for fuel when it was so expensive. That is all very nice and kind, but ... can a country like Portugal say good bye to the taxes. They are already the 3rd most indebted country in the EU. 

A good explanation why the inflation is so high in Hungary would be interesting. I mean more than "because OV is so evil". Why are the prices in the basket rising so much in Hungary? Is it because of lots of imports and bad exchange rates? Is that a main reason?
I remember that there is a tool available that allows to calculate the personal inflation by putting together your own "basket". How much can one influence ones own Inflation?

Portugal has reduced the VAT on many food items to 0%. They also gave a rebate for fuel when it was so expensive. That is all very nice and kind, but ... can a country like Portugal say good bye to the taxes. They are already the 3rd most indebted country in the EU.
-@nz7521137

Something OV (ok, it's say Fidesz but it's OV's watch) is doing is causing economic problems. It might be the nuclear power station expansion, university island, the high speed railway to Belgrade or the large number of sports stadiums. Or something else, like COVID (very high death rate/capita). The HUF is falling as confidence in the currency reduces. Moreover, savings are being eroded rapidly. People will run out of cash. It will be a turning point.

We also had a fuel subsidy which was widely abused by the people in the neighbouring countries. It's unclear why it wasn't thought out - they had to tinker with the rules incessantly. Essentially HU was exporting cheap fuel to the neighbours threatening their revenues.

We generally have low taxes, high social security costs and very large VAT rates at 27%.  I have been looking at national debt vs GDP and I'm not seeing anything particular. It could be off books borrowing.

A good explanation why the inflation is so high in Hungary would be interesting.
-@nz7521137

Something OV (ok, it's say Fidesz but it's OV's watch) is doing is causing economic problems. It might be the nuclear power station expansion, university island, the high speed railway to Belgrade or the large number of sports stadiums. Or something else, like COVID (very high death rate/capita). The HUF is falling as confidence in the currency reduces. Moreover, savings are being eroded rapidly. People will run out of cash. It will be a turning point.

We also had a fuel subsidy which was widely abused by the people in the neighbouring countries. It's unclear why it wasn't thought out - they had to tinker with the rules incessantly. Essentially HU was exporting cheap fuel to the neighbours threatening their revenues.

We generally have low taxes, high social security costs and very large VAT rates at 27%. I have been looking at national debt vs GDP and I'm not seeing anything particular. It could be off books borrowing.
-@fluffy2560

None of the things you mention seem to be relevant for high inflation, which is calculated year on year. Rising energy costs and lacking income from the manufacturing (especially the car industry) might be a reason. The cheaper fuel was only available for cars with Hungarian plates. My friend in Hungarian, but has a German company car, and he mentioned that the price reduction didn't help him.

The 15% flat income tax is very attractive for people with significant income, while the 27% VAT force poorer people to reduce consumption. Still, it is hard to see why the inflation is so extreme in Hungary. Maybe it is because the EU wants to tell the HU government "see what happens when you are not following our orders". Funny is that Spain and Portugal and Poland are regularly ignoring EU legislation without much ado.

None of the things you mention seem to be relevant for high inflation, which is calculated year on year. Rising energy costs and lacking income from the manufacturing (especially the car industry) might be a reason. The cheaper fuel was only available for cars with Hungarian plates. My friend in Hungarian, but has a German company car, and he mentioned that the price reduction didn't help him.

The 15% flat income tax is very attractive for people with significant income, while the 27% VAT force poorer people to reduce consumption. Still, it is hard to see why the inflation is so extreme in Hungary. Maybe it is because the EU wants to tell the HU government "see what happens when you are not following our orders". Funny is that Spain and Portugal and Poland are regularly ignoring EU legislation without much ado.
-@nz7521137

The "investments" in capital projects will be financed by borrowing and not out of income. As we all know, global interest rates are currently on the move (upwards). Moreover, they will be financed out of foreign currency (presumably underlying USD or EUR even if reported in softer currencies). With the lack of confidence in the HUF and its devaluation, these loan based projects will suddenly become a lot more expensive. It's like the HU foreign currency (CHF) mortgage debacle which left people bankrupt. Building yet more stadiums and providing subsidies to foreign university islands are looking like bad decisions.

The VAT at 27% is easily avoided if you're living next to a border and the Eurozone. It's cheaper to shop in AT than in HU for large value items. We've even driven 250km to Vienna to buy stuff in Ikea to save a bit of money (and because we wanted a nice lunch and some entertainment).

The halted cash injection from the EU was of the order of 6 billion EUR. It's not a large amount within the economy overall. I don't see in any problem with withholding funds if the intended recipient is not following the rules of the financing. Poland got extra brownie points over Ukraine war support and intensive Ukrainian refugee support. Not quite the same as Hungary - claims on UKR citizens as HU nationals means no refugee subsidy for HU.

The fuel subsidy implementation was a clumsy muddle with policy made on the fly. It was all cars whatever the plate, then a month or so later they said only HU registered cars, then it changed to only private vehicles and not commercial vehicles like vans or trucks. And later on, no containers either - so no lawn mowing or chain sawing. Inevitably, people were using fake HU plates to fill up on the cheaper stuff and later on you had to produce your car papers.  And I believe there were even people filling up tanks in the back of vans and taking the fuel back across the borders. 

It will stick in OV's throat but ultimately HU is going to have to join the Euro.  I'll be enjoying that schadenfreude.

The "investments" in capital projects will be financed by borrowing and not out of income. As we all know, global interest rates are currently on the move (upwards). Moreover, they will be financed out of foreign currency (presumably underlying USD or EUR even if reported in softer currencies). With the lack of confidence in the HUF and its devaluation, these loan based projects will suddenly become a lot more expensive. It's like the HU foreign currency (CHF) mortgage debacle which left people bankrupt. Building yet more stadiums and providing subsidies to foreign university islands are looking like bad decisions.

The VAT at 27% is easily avoided if you're living next to a border and the Eurozone. It's cheaper to shop in AT than in HU for large value items. We've even driven 250km to Vienna to buy stuff in Ikea to save a bit of money (and because we wanted a nice lunch and some entertainment).

The halted cash injection from the EU was of the order of 6 billion EUR. It's not a large amount within the economy overall. I don't see in any problem with withholding funds if the intended recipient is not following the rules of the financing. Poland got extra brownie points over Ukraine war support and intensive Ukrainian refugee support. Not quite the same as Hungary - claims on UKR citizens as HU nationals means no refugee subsidy for HU.

The fuel subsidy implementation was a clumsy muddle with policy made on the fly. It was all cars whatever the plate, then a month or so later they said only HU registered cars, then it changed to only private vehicles and not commercial vehicles like vans or trucks. And later on, no containers either - so no lawn mowing or chain sawing. Inevitably, people were using fake HU plates to fill up on the cheaper stuff and later on you had to produce your car papers. And I believe there were even people filling up tanks in the back of vans and taking the fuel back across the borders.

It will stick in OV's throat but ultimately HU is going to have to join the Euro. I'll be enjoying that schadenfreude.
-@fluffy2560

Still not at convincing explanation for the 19.9% inflation. I am still searching in the Internet for answers. This https://apnews.com/article/hungary-food … ce776ab30c is a little more detailed. Hungary and Portugal are of similar size, but here the prices have not gone through the roof.

The fuel subsidy implementation was a clumsy muddle. OV personally must have been behind that . Anyway, the whole subsidy idea was stupid and only done to hide the madness of bad energy politics.

The EU holding back funds intended for Hungary smells a bit like cancelling bank accounts for now having the correct political opinion. Being somewhat connected to the UK you must have heard about kind of a scandal over there. In the EU countries get rewarded for always following the EU opinion. And punished for the opposite. When Hungary is protecting the Schengen borders then that is punished. When Spain does that in Ceuta and Melitta then this is ignored and possibly rewarded.

Still not at convincing explanation for the 19.9% inflation. I am still searching in the Internet for answers. This https://apnews.com/article/hungary-food … ce776ab30c is a little more detailed. Hungary and Portugal are of similar size, but here the prices have not gone through the roof.

The fuel subsidy implementation was a clumsy muddle. OV personally must have been behind that . Anyway, the whole subsidy idea was stupid and only done to hide the madness of bad energy politics.

The EU holding back funds intended for Hungary smells a bit like cancelling bank accounts for now having the correct political opinion. Being somewhat connected to the UK you must have heard about kind of a scandal over there. In the EU countries get rewarded for always following the EU opinion. And punished for the opposite. When Hungary is protecting the Schengen borders then that is punished. When Spain does that in Ceuta and Melitta then this is ignored and possibly rewarded.
-@nz7521137

That APNews article has been around and reported for a while in a number of forms.

Spain has always had double standards over it's North African possessions and UK's Gibraltar. It's a 300 year old complaint but they (the Spanish) agreed to it back then. So tough luck Madrid. HU only protects its borders when politically expedient. It's a broken record.

I also have no detailed explanation I can find for high inflation in Hungary.  Every time I look at the debt statistics, they are not (yet) at basket case levels. 

I'd have expected it to have been increasing substantially. Of course, we're going to enter a cash crisis. It'll come in September or October when the holidays are over.

All the capital projects - despite being in soft currencies - have to be paid for. The country must be living beyond its means. It's still getting cheap fuel from Russia. But the nuclear power station is not at full production. The Russians are still constructing it. Will it be available to support OVs next free energy giveaway, who knows?

I hear about the UK banking scandal all the time. I'm sitting in the UK right now (here to check on my Dad).

For banking and PEPs (Politically Exposed Persons), the banks are stuck. They've had to interpret the AML (Anti-Money Laundering) and KYC (Know-Your-Customer) regulations forced on them by legislation and incorporate those complex rules into their IT systems.  On the other hand, the banks obviously didn't realise when the poo hit the fan it was going to stick to them big time. Talk about tone deaf. What amazes me that Farage has enough power to be able to bring down the NatWest's management. And the fall out is now sticking to others considered to be PEPs. They are talking about bank issues on the radio right now.

As I said before, I think the only way people can protect their savings is to move it out to the Eurozone (or US for USD).   

Or OV to join the Eurozone. I cannot see him taking that hit for the team.  He'd be biting the hand that feds him AND have to join in on the consensus.  And who is the enemy to blame then?

Inflation update:

I spent some time on this and the IMF provides an April 2023 paper on HU inflation specifically.

So you don't have to read it, I've condensed the summary for causes of high inflation in Hungary thus:

• Economic expansionist policies post-COVID
• Ongoing and ineffective energy and food subsidies prior to the last election, therefore delaying price rises and causing an inflation pile up a few years downstream.
• Low unemployment (insufficient labour capacity in the market)
• Drought reducing agricultural output
• Poor performance in manufacturing and logistics.

What the government plans to do about it, not sure.  I cannot see the whole picture like there's a plan.

Inflation update:
I spent some time on this and the IMF provides an April 2023 paper on HU inflation specifically.

So you don't have to read it, I've condensed the summary for causes of high inflation in Hungary thus:

Economic expansionist policies post-COVID
Ongoing and ineffective energy and food subsidies prior to the last election, therefore delaying price rises and causing an inflation pile up a few years downstream.
Low unemployment (insufficient labour capacity in the market)
Drought reducing agricultural output
Poor performance in manufacturing and logistics.

What the government plans to do about it, not sure. I cannot see the whole picture like there's a plan.
-@fluffy2560

Thanks. That does explain it better. Governments (on all levels up to EU) can only do so much about it, though. At the moment the EU would even like to aggravate the problems to get rid of the current HU government.

Thanks. That does explain it better. Governments (on all levels up to EU) can only do so much about it, though. At the moment the EU would even like to aggravate the problems to get rid of the current HU government.
-@nz7521137

It satisfied my own curiosity as an amateur economist.

Inflation can be traced to 2020 and what we see now is delayed inflation. By far, the factors I discussed before are the most significant. The IMF models the reasons and attributes percentage points to the different influences.

I should clarify that according to the IMF the disputes with the EU are only minor contributing factors to the inflation problem simply because it increases HU's risk profile on exchange rates and that therefore adds to inflationary imports in the form of commodities, other goods and services.  There's also a deficit (debt) on energy imports.

The EU may want OV gone and someone different who is not such a PITA.  A large section of the HU population also want the government out.  And it's increasing and will continue to increase due to the incoherent policies. Erosion of savings is a serious vote loser - people do not have financial capacity. Hitting the teachers is going to really rile people. It's not a sustainable fight.

I can draw a parallel to Trump or Bush the younger. While they were elected, close to half the population voted against those candidates. Yet those elected politicians are also now the opposition's Presidents too. Ignoring the half of the population who voted against the incumbent is a bad idea. Be better to seek inclusion and unity at times of crisis. It's Fidesz's fault for sure - no-one else has been in power.

Just read that OV is thinking of ordering doctors to work a full 8 hours.

As it is now, many work 4 hours per day in public service then go off to a private clinic.

Many doctors may quit as a result.

This will  be interesting to see how it all turns out.

Even so, often the doctors have a full waiting room. No one is being called in for the longest time.

The numbers on the board are not changing.

Then the doctors comes back to the office and rushes through to get to everyone. A one hour wait time can easily turn into 3 to 4 hours.

They obviously are doing their thing outside the office, who know what, going to the gym, doing persoanl business or meeting friends for lunch while keeping sick people waiting.

Doesn't happen all that often from my experience but it has happened more then once.

Enjoy your visit with your father in the UK Mr. Fluffy.

Today would of been my mother's 99th birthday!

Miss her so enjoy visiting your father while it's possible.

Yesterday we read that OV is considering ordering the doctors to work a full 8 hours.

As it is now they are in the office 4 hours per day, at least the GP's work half days .

I suppose they go to private practice the other 4 hours?

This might be a game changer if his proposal passes.