Absolutely Anything Else

On another note, my husband saw that by 2030 the EU will force property owners inside the EU to upgrade their properties. No more gas heaters, new electric and new appliances that are up to new energy codes.-@Marilyn Tassy

We will see.

They tried similar madnesses in Germany in recent years, not all gone trought even there.

Not all pray to St. Grteta and wanna ban plastic while uses plastic phones...

IDK, my husband stands on transport if there is no seat open but I have some issues now due to extensive medical treatments. 33 rounds of pelvic radiation has made my hips, knees, tendons, ligamints damaged.

I already had bad knees and those rays didn't help at all. Spinal arthritis too now due to being zapped.

I think if someone is using a cane and you are in better condition then they are, you should help.

Of course I was a Girl Scout and literally would help people cross the st.

Just raised that way.

Yesterday I saw a women using 2 canes to walk. I told my husband , now I'd give up my seat for her .

I never demand a seat though, I just know one day they will have their turn if they live so long.Then they shouldnt cry if no one cares about them when they aren't doing their best.

I suppose I have lived around more helpful peple. Just used to men teaching even their small boys to open doors or move out of the way. We just never hung out around peple in public that were that far gone about manners. Usually that's not part of any neighborhood we ever lived in.

I'm not really a city gal I suppose.

You'd never find a cowboy in New Mexico not giving up his seat for a women or older person. Then again, cowboys never take the bus!

In Belize in the mid 90's my husband gave up his seat to a very heavy black lady on a bus for 3 hours. I asked him why he was hurting himself , he said he could take it better then she could.

It would of hurt her but not him. He isn't the sort to want praise either.

They just don't make them like that any longer...

Our HU former friends aborted their child because they found out it was going to be handicapped. She waited a bit long to have a baby, was in her early 40's for a first time mom. As a couple they both were a bit self centered to begin with. A handicapped child would of tranished their image.

Then I have met people in the 70's who were giving up their golden years to support and teach their handicapped child in their 40's how to be independant for the days when they were no longer around to support them.

It wasn't easy for them to see their retired friends taking vacations while they were still teaching their child how to pay a bill or just general care for themselves.

They still felt blessed to have a child even if it wasn't perfect.

It really isn't a big deal, we don't ride public transportation that often, just an observation on society.

You can't change people , only do your best to avoid them.

IDK, my husband stands on transport if there is no seat open but I have some issues now due to extensive medical treatments. 33 rounds of pelvic radiation has made my hips, knees, tendons, ligamints damaged.
I already had bad knees and those rays didn't help at all. Spinal arthritis too now due to being zapped.
I think if someone is using a cane and you are in better condition then they are, you should help.
Of course I was a Girl Scout and literally would help people cross the st.
Just raised that way.
Yesterday I saw a women using 2 canes to walk. I told my husband , now I'd give up my seat for her .
I never demand a seat though, I just know one day they will have their turn if they live so long.Then they shouldnt cry if no one cares about them when they aren't doing their best.
I suppose I have lived around more helpful peple. Just used to men teaching even their small boys to open doors or move out of the way. We just never hung out around peple in public that were that far gone about manners. Usually that's not part of any neighborhood we ever lived in.
I'm not really a city gal I suppose.
You'd never find a cowboy in New Mexico not giving up his seat for a women or older person. Then again, cowboys never take the bus!
In Belize in the mid 90's my husband gave up his seat to a very heavy black lady on a bus for 3 hours. I asked him why he was hurting himself , he said he could take it better then she could.
It would of hurt her but not him. He isn't the sort to want praise either.
They just don't make them like that any longer...
Our HU former friends aborted their child because they found out it was going to be handicapped. She waited a bit long to have a baby, was in her early 40's for a first time mom. As a couple they both were a bit self centered to begin with. A handicapped child would of tranished their image.
Then I have met people in the 70's who were giving up their golden years to support and teach their handicapped child in their 40's how to be independant for the days when they were no longer around to support them.
It wasn't easy for them to see their retired friends taking vacations while they were still teaching their child how to pay a bill or just general care for themselves.
They still felt blessed to have a child even if it wasn't perfect.
It really isn't a big deal, we don't ride public transportation that often, just an observation on society.
You can't change people , only do your best to avoid them.
-@Marilyn Tassy

In the Vienna public transport there is an automated announcement telling people to give up their seat when somebody else needs it more urgently. I usually follow that advice, but it isn't required often. In the Lisbon Metro I sometimes give my seat away during the rush hour, but I try to avoid the city anyway during that time of the day. 

I also don't mind that people older than 65 get a free ride on public transport. The state is supporting rich people buying EVs, so why not support old people.

I like your closing line ...

That's my new motto, avoid people when possible.

Better yet, avoid all doctors if at all possible!

It's a strange world when people need to be reminded to think of others in need. Still Vienna is ahead of Budapest that way.

We have a homeless man living down the st. in an alcove of a new business building parking enterance. His bedding is in place and he has cartons of food all around him while he naps.

Looks like people are bringing him take out?

I mentioned to my husband that we should give him a few small items since we pass him almost daily on our outtings. He doesn't think it's a good idea though. Don't want him to expect anything or start getting too chummy. He says there are many shelters around but they don;t allow any drinking.

My half-sister lived in her car for 5 years. Sort of a upperclass version of being homeless? She had a full time job but is a bit mentally off balance. She left her husband for a homeless man in Ca. She saw him stealing from the store she worked in and feel in,"love". Insane to me. She worked but he out right refused to work. He dropped her off at her job everyday while he spent her money on booze drinking in the park with his buddies. She had to be out of her loving mind.

After 5 years her husband ,"collected" her and moved her away.

My half-bro lived in his van for months. His wife had been found in bed with his best buddy and my brother threw his friend through a plate glass window. His wife had him arrested and she had pull. Her family made sure he didn't get bail and was in for 6 months. ( Mexican mafia connections) During that time she sold their house, BMW and tossed away or sold all of his things. Even pictures of our deceased parents.

All he had left was an old van.Had to start from scratch finding a job and getting back on is feet.

PS, she spent all the money on extensive plastic surgery... She was pretty enough but wanted to look younger.

So many reasons why a person finds themselves out on the st.

I had no idea either of them were going through what they were. No one told me and since being in Hungary I didn't see them in person.

My husband was watching a video about the road to Hana on Maui.

We used to drive there maybe every other month and swim in the pools.

Now they charge to enter and do not allow anyone in the pools.

We had HU friends who would cliff drive into the pools, no more.

It's gotten so commerical there, even the black sand beach requires you to sign up to enter and has a 3 hour time limit.

Man, I can't believe it.

Used to be free to enter these places and you could basically stay as long as you wished to.

Guess Maui really is done for.

I'm glad we experienced the place when it was still so natural and free.

Free concerts today around Budapest, not sure if the rain is going to keep people away or not.

We haven't gone to these events in a few years, used to be fun, perhaps they still are?

It would be going against my motto though, avoid all people when possible.

On a similar theme, I've just read on one of the HU web sites that some HU towns are planning to recruit Filipino bus drivers as no HU citizens are available to do the work. So much for stopping immigration. Filipino people are lovely people. I've worked there.
-@fluffy2560
Always the same spin from you. . HU and other EU countries have never stopped "legal" immigration. Many countries, and HU seemingly as well, are trying to recruit outside the EU to find skilled labour that only needs some language training before starting a job. The problem is with "illegal" immigration where random people are showing up expecting to be "entertained".
-@nz7521137

I'm avoiding you trolling  and engagement with your posts so I'll keep it short:

1. Invited workers = legal

2. Asylum seekers = legal (UNCHR 1951, more like political escapees)

3. Refugees = legal (i.e. UNHCR 1951, not much different from 2., above, more like war escapees)

I object to the term "illegal migrant".   Other terms like undocumented or irregular may be used by some. The term "illegal"  is highly inaccurate, even propaganda cum BS.   

Whatever individual opinions one might have, all the countries of the EU are signed up to and bound to the UNHCR 1951/Geneva Convention/1967 Protocol.   That's just a fact.

@fluffy2560

The 1951 Convention protects refugees. It defines a refugee as a person who is outside his or her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of his or her race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular

social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail him— or herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution (see Article 1A(2)).

The receiving nation has a right to check whether the conditions are met and it is verified that the refugee is in fact not a migrant. Also the refugee is not in a position to select the country where he or she wants to be accepted as a refugee. Migrants are not covered under the above mentioned convention.

I know that you have your own very far left leaning ideas and that is fine with me. To each his/her own.

There is no dispute that all the countries of the EU are signed up to and bound to the UNHCR 1951/Geneva Convention/1967 Protocol.

@fluffy2560
The 1951 Convention protects refugees. It defines a refugee as a person who is outside his or her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of his or her race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular
social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail him— or herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution (see Article 1A(2)).
The receiving nation has a right to check whether the conditions are met and it is verified that the refugee is in fact not a migrant. Also the refugee is not in a position to select the country where he or she wants to be accepted as a refugee.

I know that you have your own very far left leaning ideas and that is fine with me. To each his/her own.
-@nz7521137

Funny fact:

In 2006-2007 thousands of Hungarians tried to be refugees/ asylum seekers, because of the above mentioned reasons. Tiny problem: we were EU members by then, so the closest safe country (Austria) simply denied all claimning that no one can be either refugee/ asylum seeker if a natural born citizen of another EU country.

Since that passed some 16 years.

Does anyone knows that rule still exist?

@sjbabilon5 That's indeed interesting.

It would also be interesting to know whether a person applying for refugee status has a right to all the perks coming with this status, before the status has been formally recognized. I know that at an airport a person might get stuck in the "international" side for a long time.

@nz7521137

Well in case of Ukraine the status grant was an instant if someone asked for it - for more than a year at Hungary.

Even with no papers at all (passport, id, etc...).

Emergency accomodation and supplies granted for first period, also the list of places to help.

The ones who choose to stay get some grants (like: 6 - 12 month rental fee), and employers also get up to 100.000 Huf/ month if employ anyone from Ukraine. Also some other support like: nursery enrollment for kids, or summer camp places, similars.

Because there were abuses, predominantly Romanian gypsies who falsely claimed that they are from Ukraine with no papers the status is not granted on request for some months now.

As for reality not many people from Ukraine asked for official status. Actually none of my neighbours are - yet they are from Ukraine. They all work for the same company, and the flat is a corporate housing for employees (I would bet the employer get some extra after them).

@sjbabilon5 The situation with the Ukrainians is completely different from any other ever before. In Germany any Ukrainian is immediately treated like a >1 year unemployed German citizen. So the full set of social services including accommodation, health care, education, language (and other) training are applied. They also immediately get a work permit.

For other accepted refugees the conditions are completely different, but still better than almost anywhere else.

Many German complain, but they shouldn't because they elected the governments (plural) that made this possible.

@fluffy2560
The 1951 Convention protects refugees. It defines a refugee as a person who is outside his or her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of his or her race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular
social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail him— or herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution (see Article 1A(2)).
The receiving nation has a right to check whether the conditions are met and it is verified that the refugee is in fact not a migrant. Also the refugee is not in a position to select the country where he or she wants to be accepted as a refugee.

I know that you have your own very far left leaning ideas and that is fine with me. To each his/her own.
-@nz7521137

Funny fact:
In 2006-2007 thousands of Hungarians tried to be refugees/ asylum seekers, because of the above mentioned reasons. Tiny problem: we were EU members by then, so the closest safe country (Austria) simply denied all claimning that no one can be either refugee/ asylum seeker if a natural born citizen of another EU country.

Since that passed some 16 years.
Does anyone knows that rule still exist?
-@sjbabilon5

I know an American citizen in Sweden who is married to a Swedish citizen.

She entered Sweden with an expired resident permit. A temp type of permit that had to be renewed once a year. It was already an expired document in Hungary when she entered Sweden as a tourist. Got married before her 90 days was up.

She is fiighting to not be deported to the US.

She was told when she tried to claim being a refugee that there is no such thing as a refugee from America.

They have had to hire a lawyer to fight her deportation.

Seems even if you are legally married to a citizen they EU can still toss you out if you entered under flase pertenses or papers were not in order at the time you arrived in the country.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

It's sad for them , really.

She entered Sweden during Covid rules so not sure if that plays into it or not.

IDK, we have so many illegal people in the USA.

They sometimes are hard workers and build a  nice life for themselves in the US over time or they became a drag on the system.

Legal immigration into the US is so slow.

I know my son married two women from other countries.

He paid at every step of the game for them to get their papers etc.

Last payment of $900. was towards his wife taking her US citizenship. After over a year of waiting with no news they just gave up and left the US.

She had all legal documents to work and stay in the US but the citizenship phase was slow going.

My husband was a refugee in the US in the early 1970's.

The IRC got him to the US but after that he was on his own. None of the HU refugees we knew at that time ever had welfare. ( That came later for many...)

They didn't quailify for it. They all had to work or leave.

The IRC paid foor 2 weeks of hotels then you were out if you couldnt pay the bill yourself.

It was much harder then.

Getting like summer now after the mild weather of past months.

We did go out for a bit yesterday downtown  to hear some music and see some folk dancing.

Not interested in seeing the fireworks show tonight in person.

I can see some of it from our apt. and we can smell the smoke in the air and hear the noise as they go off.

We also missed the march this morning where the hand of St. Stephan was displayed.

How odd is that? Why not perserve his head instead? Just as strange as a hand to have as a keepsake.

@fluffy2560
The 1951 Convention protects refugees. It defines a refugee as a person who is outside his or her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of his or her race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular
social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail him— or herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution (see Article 1A(2)).
The receiving nation has a right to check whether the conditions are met and it is verified that the refugee is in fact not a migrant. Also the refugee is not in a position to select the country where he or she wants to be accepted as a refugee.

I know that you have your own very far left leaning ideas and that is fine with me. To each his/her own.
-@nz7521137

Funny fact:
In 2006-2007 thousands of Hungarians tried to be refugees/ asylum seekers, because of the above mentioned reasons. Tiny problem: we were EU members by then, so the closest safe country (Austria) simply denied all claimning that no one can be either refugee/ asylum seeker if a natural born citizen of another EU country.

Since that passed some 16 years.
Does anyone knows that rule still exist?
-@sjbabilon5
I know an American citizen in Sweden who is married to a Swedish citizen.
She entered Sweden with an expired resident permit. A temp type of permit that had to be renewed once a year. It was already an expired document in Hungary when she entered Sweden as a tourist. Got married before her 90 days was up.
She is fighting to not be deported to the US.
She was told when she tried to claim being a refugee that there is no such thing as a refugee from America.
They have had to hire a lawyer to fight her deportation.
Seems even if you are legally married to a citizen they EU can still toss you out if you entered under false pretenses or papers were not in order at the time you arrived in the country.
It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
It's sad for them , really.
She entered Sweden during Covid rules so not sure if that plays into it or not.
-@Marilyn Tassy

Even Hungary is not considered safe by some countries. If interested, people can read about Viktória Mohácsi's (former HU MEP) claim for asylum in Canada. And eventually she was granted it.  Apparently she's not the only one. Unfortunately, it says quite a lot about here.

Getting like summer now after the mild weather of past months.
We did go out for a bit yesterday downtown to hear some music and see some folk dancing.
Not interested in seeing the fireworks show tonight in person.
I can see some of it from our apt. and we can smell the smoke in the air and hear the noise as they go off.
We also missed the march this morning where the hand of St. Stephan was displayed.
How odd is that? Why not perserve his head instead? Just as strange as a hand to have as a keepsake.
-@Marilyn Tassy

I came back early from Balaton so I could watch the football on a proper TV. Unfortunately Spain won but I concede they were overall a better team.  Shame!  Referee (USA) sure needs some new glasses.  England was cheated out of a penalty. There will be a next time and England will shine once more!   

We're thinking of going to see the fireworks but I suppose we'll go by public transport (bus, then walk). Parking will be impossible down there. One year, we tried to do it and I had to drop off the Fluffy family and then spend 30 minutes driving miles away to park and see the fireworks on my own while the rest of them watched from opposite the parliament.  In the past, we've driven up to Normafa but it's not a great view from there as it's so far away. But there's plenty of space to sit down. At least it shouldn't be chilly tonight as it's so hot now (well past 32C according to the FWS - Fluffy Weather Station).

We've seen some churches with relics in them.  Usually things like fingers.  I mean, come on, pull the other one, DNA testing will show it's probably the bone from a random person or even an animal.   Back then, I reckon one could have made a fortune selling "relics" with some added hocus pocus and blah-blah.

@fluffy2560
The 1951 Convention protects refugees. It defines a refugee as a person who is outside his or her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of his or her race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular
social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail him— or herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution (see Article 1A(2)).
The receiving nation has a right to check whether the conditions are met and it is verified that the refugee is in fact not a migrant. Also the refugee is not in a position to select the country where he or she wants to be accepted as a refugee. Migrants are not covered under the above mentioned convention.

I know that you have your own very far left leaning ideas and that is fine with me. To each his/her own.

There is no dispute that all the countries of the EU are signed up to and bound to the UNHCR 1951/Geneva Convention/1967 Protocol.
-@nz7521137

Where in the conventions/protocol does it use the term "illegal"?  In any context?

I wouldn't call myself "very far left" leaning. I actually think of myself of only slightly left of centre.  I'm not very keen on using labels as it comes with baggage. But here, for a matter of convenience in the discussion,  I expect I'm most likely something like a secular humanist.  I believe in people (most of them anyway).

@fluffy2560
The 1951 Convention protects refugees. It defines a refugee as a person who is outside his or her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of his or her race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular
social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail him— or herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution (see Article 1A(2)).
-@nz7521137

Where in the conventions/protocol does it use the term "illegal"? In any context?

@fluffy2560

To my knowledge it doesn't use the term anywhere. However, it uses a pretty tight definition of "refugee".

To be a refugee it isn't sufficient to declare yourself. The receiving side has a word as well and has a right to determine whether fears are well founded. If the individual doesn't provide information on its nationality then the latter would be very hard to do. The result at an airport usually is that the individual is not allowed to enter the destination country and usually taken back to where they boarded the flight.

@fluffy2560
The 1951 Convention protects refugees. It defines a refugee as a person who is outside his or her country of nationality or habitual residence; has a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of his or her race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular
social group or political opinion; and is unable or unwilling to avail him— or herself of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution (see Article 1A(2)).
-@nz7521137

Where in the conventions/protocol does it use the term "illegal"? In any context?

@fluffy2560
To my knowledge it doesn't use the term anywhere. However, it uses a pretty tight definition of "refugee".

To be a refugee it isn't sufficient to declare yourself. The receiving side has a word as well and has a right to determine whether fears are well founded. If the individual doesn't provide information on its nationality then the latter would be very hard to do. The result at an airport usually is that the individual is not allowed to enter the destination country and usually taken back to where they boarded the flight.
-@nz7521137

OK, so we at least established that "illegal" migrants do not exist.

Depending on country, one has to have the correct visa to travel to get on a plane.  If the person cannot get a visa, then what are they to do?  Notwithstanding fake documentation not detectable by airlines (and most countries use API) obviously travel by whatever means is necessary to reach their intended destination. At that point, they may be undocumented or irregular.

They CAN declare themselves as refugees anywhere they please.  If their claim in rejected, they may be deported.   BUT that's only after their status is established/verified.

Nowhere in this process are they ever illegal migrants.  There is no such thing as an illegal migrant.

OK, so we at least established that "illegal" migrants do not exist.

Depending on country, one has to have the correct visa to travel to get on a plane. If the person cannot get a visa, then what are they to do? Notwithstanding fake documentation not detectable by airlines (and most countries use API) obviously travel by whatever means is necessary to reach their intended destination. At that point, they may be undocumented or irregular.

They CAN declare themselves as refugees anywhere they please. If their claim in rejected, they may be deported.  BUT that's only after their status is established/verified.

Nowhere in this process are they ever illegal migrants. There is no such thing as an illegal migrant.
-@fluffy2560

Unfortunately we have not established that.

A migrant that doesn't declare that he is a refugee can be deported or denied access to any country. If he anyways enters he is an illegal migrant. If he declares to an immigration official that he is a refugee then this claim has to be verified. While this verification process is underway he has practically no rights under the Refugee Convention. A question would be whether a migrants that doesn't disclose his country of citizenship or residence can ever be a refugee.

Isn't it interesting that "pushbacks" are possibe at airports, but (it appears) not at land borders or at ports?

On a different note: Budapest is hosting a really great Athletics event and the stadium looks fantastic. Good to see that so many spectators are there.

OK, so we at least established that "illegal" migrants do not exist.

Depending on country, one has to have the correct visa to travel to get on a plane. If the person cannot get a visa, then what are they to do? Notwithstanding fake documentation not detectable by airlines (and most countries use API) obviously travel by whatever means is necessary to reach their intended destination. At that point, they may be undocumented or irregular.

They CAN declare themselves as refugees anywhere they please. If their claim in rejected, they may be deported. BUT that's only after their status is established/verified.

Nowhere in this process are they ever illegal migrants. There is no such thing as an illegal migrant.
-@fluffy2560
Unfortunately we have not established that.

A migrant that doesn't declare that he is a refugee can be deported or denied access to any country. If he anyways enters he is an illegal migrant. If he declares to an immigration official that he is a refugee then this claim has to be verified. While this verification process is underway he has practically no rights under the Refugee Convention. A question would be whether a migrants that doesn't disclose his country of citizenship or residence can ever be a refugee.

Isn't it interesting that "pushbacks" are possibe at airports, but (it appears) not at land borders or at ports?
-@nz7521137

The scale at airports is altogether of a different magnitude. And of course, unless you're flying Afghan Airlines (look it up), it's hard to actually bring a plane load of refugees/asylum seekers directly to an airport. It has happened, notably at London Stansted (where all hijackings go).

Anyway, regardless of what you might say, I think we have established there is no such thing as an illegal migrant. It's not defined.

Unless I'm living in a parallel universe, no-one in a Western country is guilty before they are innocent. That doesn't make them illegal as that would imply they did something which was not allowed under the law. Being undocumented is not illegal under the convention. Not everyone can be documented.  Asking for a passport in some countries could lead to a death sentence.

Even on remand, people are not guilty. They are just held pending investigation. Apart from deranged countries like Hungary, crossing a border with a view to seeking asylum or to claim refugee status is not illegal. It never has been.

BTW, if you are on remand, you can usually wear your own clothes, not prison garb. And you have rights to legal representation as is fundamental - even in dysfunctional countries like the USA. There has been no trial and no-one has been found guilty of anything. Authorities cannot hold people forever (check writ of habeus corpus) without charging them with something and due process taking place. For the most part, only at the end of a trial and a verdict reached can anyone be found guilty of something. 

I think we have established there is no such thing as an illegal migrant. It's not defined.

Merriam-Webster defined it:

illegal alien/immigrant noun : a foreign person who is living in a country without having official permission to live there

All below is generic, not specific as a comment to any single poseter, I only include it here for simplicity:

Of course, irronically, if we accept the above definition, all European migrations to the Americas, Africa, Asia, Austraila were maybe in many cases illegal immigrations. As they never asked for permission to be there. Or if they did, it was dubious if those that "gave permission" actually had the right to grant such permission. So "permission" simply became an issue of might over right. By gun and force. To require and force such European colonization. (If one has not read "The Scramble For Africa" Thomas Francis Dermot Pakenham I recommend it as an example)

Ironic so many such "expat" Europeans who "claimed" such land as theirs by forced immigration to their benefit, now want to claim what land is "theirs" who is now not allowed to immigrate, or not, to the land. If they kind of... welll...stold it... or want to steal it. And that even includes some recent policial, geographical and national border issues even in little old "Europe" from the Balkins in the 1990's to another current conflict.

Yeah, it is complicated.

And here is where I must interject a bit of Hungarian Humor. Because not only is this the Hungarian Forum, but because this discussion really, IMHO needs some injection of humor as it is getting silly, and Hungarians, themselves at one time were an invasion force of immigrants, which later experienced there own amount of invasions and immigration from other cultures. So they have experince. So many quotes I could select from on this issue, but this is still my favorite:

"Sometimes the icecream licks back."

If one has a Hungarian sense of humor, one understands this.

All above IMHO of course. Enjoy.

I think we have established there is no such thing as an illegal migrant. It's not defined.

Merriam-Webster defined it:

illegal alien/immigrant noun : a foreign person who is living in a country without having official permission to live there -@Saint Coemgen

Appreciate the input but unfortunately, dictionaries ain't part of the law.  But that's part of the problem, using the word illegal is an attempt to normalise that kind of speech when it's wholly inaccurate. The videki thickies will jump on the word illegal without any knowledge of the nuances. It's just another way of politically riling up the voters to vote their way. Nothing unusual and of course, rather pathetic.

Moving on....

I rather like ice-cream. I've even got an ice-cream machine I use sometimes. Whoever designed it was on the right track but obviously had not got a clue about how to make things that are easy to clean and use materials that could go in the dishwasher.

On a different note: Budapest is hosting a really great Athletics event and the stadium looks fantastic. Good to see that so many spectators are there. @nz7521137

As for the athletics stadium, it's yet another one in the plethora of stadiums (stadia?) Budapest is collapsing under the weight of these places. There are so many empty and unusable stadiums here anyway. Another one? What for? I was watching the football via streaming and it was interrupted by the athletics championship and suddenly appeared on another channel with no information where it had gone. WTF? No common sense.

BTW, there are no stadiums in HU large enough to hold seriously large crowds for super events. I mean 100K+. Pukas Arena can hold 70K. All the other ones in Hungary are smaller.

Fireworks:

We were opposite the parliament for the fireworks and light show etc. It was absolutely heaving.   

Many thousands of people there and queuing to get on public transport at the end.

It was loud with a lot of banging, smoke and noise. 

My hearing probably further damaged. I think I should have worn ear defenders. I notice some people using them, mainly kids. 

The fireworks were good but after 10 minutes I kind of zoned out and my mind started to wander.

It was the same as last time with religious symbolism at the end carried out by coordinated drones.

According to Bing, no stadium in Europe can seat 100,000 or more, and there are only ten 100,000-seat-plus stadiums world-wide. Apparently design and economic factors max out most stadiums at 70-80,000 seats.

A migrant that doesn't declare that he is a refugee can be deported or denied access to any country. If he anyways enters he is an illegal migrant. If he declares to an immigration official that he is a refugee then this claim has to be verified. While this verification process is underway he has practically no rights under the Refugee Convention. A question would be whether a migrants that doesn't disclose his country of citizenship or residence can ever be a refugee.

Isn't it interesting that "pushbacks" are possible at airports, but (it appears) not at land borders or at ports?
-@nz7521137

The scale at airports is altogether of a different magnitude. And of course, unless you're flying Afghan Airlines (look it up), it's hard to actually bring a plane load of refugees/asylum seekers directly to an airport. It has happened, notably at London Stansted (where all hijackings go).

@fluffy2560

It is indeed getting a bit boring. Since when does it legally matter whether one, ten or hundred people believing to be or presenting themselves  to be refugees are held up at a border. It appears pushbacks are perfectly fine at airports and not at over borders.

The good Hungarian government is hopefully trying to make sure that arrivals are actually refugees under the convention before letting them into the country. Unfortunately Hungary isn't like Australia where there is enough space to hold migrants until they are properly identified as refugees and allowed into the country.

According to Bing, no stadium in Europe can seat 100,000 or more, and there are only ten 100,000-seat-plus stadiums world-wide. Apparently design and economic factors max out most stadiums at 70-80,000 seats.
-@zif

There are a few that get close - Wembley in the UK can seat 90K.

Budapest stadiums are too small for the real mega stars like The Weeknd.

A migrant that doesn't declare that he is a refugee can be deported or denied access to any country. If he anyways enters he is an illegal migrant. If he declares to an immigration official that he is a refugee then this claim has to be verified. While this verification process is underway he has practically no rights under the Refugee Convention. A question would be whether a migrants that doesn't disclose his country of citizenship or residence can ever be a refugee.

Isn't it interesting that "pushbacks" are possible at airports, but (it appears) not at land borders or at ports?
-@nz7521137

The scale at airports is altogether of a different magnitude. And of course, unless you're flying Afghan Airlines (look it up), it's hard to actually bring a plane load of refugees/asylum seekers directly to an airport. It has happened, notably at London Stansted (where all hijackings go).

@fluffy2560
It is indeed getting a bit boring. Since when does it legally matter whether one, ten or hundred people believing to be or presenting themselves to be refugees are held up at a border. It appears pushbacks are perfectly fine at airports and not at over borders.

The good Hungarian government is hopefully trying to make sure that arrivals are actually refugees under the convention before letting them into the country. Unfortunately Hungary isn't like Australia where there is enough space to hold migrants until they are properly identified as refugees and allowed into the country.
-@nz7521137

"Good Hungarian government" is an oxymoron.

Airports are controlled environments and of course, migrants cannot get on the plane without documentation.  So they never turn up there except with fake documents or under false travel arrangements.  If you push someone back in the sea, they will die.  And besides, countries aren't allowed to push anyone back.  They have to give them due process if they make it inside.

Budapest stadiums should bring in WizzAir to redesign their seating. They could probably cram in an extra 20,000 people.

According to Bing, no stadium in Europe can seat 100,000 or more, and there are only ten 100,000-seat-plus stadiums world-wide. Apparently design and economic factors max out most stadiums at 70-80,000 seats.
-@zif

And above and beyond that, an athletics stadium doesn't have to be huge. The sport doesn't draw huge crowds compared to football. The championship in Budapest is really good so far. Very nice venue and good spectators.

A migrant that doesn't declare that he is a refugee can be deported or denied access to any country. If he anyways enters he is an illegal migrant. If he declares to an immigration official that he is a refugee then this claim has to be verified. While this verification process is underway he has practically no rights under the Refugee Convention. A question would be whether a migrants that doesn't disclose his country of citizenship or residence can ever be a refugee.

Isn't it interesting that "pushbacks" are possible at airports, but (it appears) not at land borders or at ports?
-@nz7521137

The scale at airports is altogether of a different magnitude. And of course, unless you're flying Afghan Airlines (look it up), it's hard to actually bring a plane load of refugees/asylum seekers directly to an airport. It has happened, notably at London Stansted (where all hijackings go).

@fluffy2560
It is indeed getting a bit boring. Since when does it legally matter whether one, ten or hundred people believing to be or presenting themselves to be refugees are held up at a border. It appears pushbacks are perfectly fine at airports and not at over borders.

The good Hungarian government is hopefully trying to make sure that arrivals are actually refugees under the convention before letting them into the country. Unfortunately Hungary isn't like Australia where there is enough space to hold migrants until they are properly identified as refugees and allowed into the country.
-@nz7521137

Airports are controlled environments and of course, migrants cannot get on the plane without documentation. So they never turn up there except with fake documents or under false travel arrangements. If you push someone back in the sea, they will die. And besides, countries aren't allowed to push anyone back. They have to give them due process if they make it inside.
-@fluffy2560

Australia is pushing back. The Spanish are pushing back. The Greek are pushing back. And other countries are building fences and bring soldiers to the border. And then there are countries that let everybody in and within a short period of time they are all gone. And then there are the accepted refugees from e.g. Syria that live e.g. in Germany and go back to Syria on holiday to visit family. It's all not so easy.

@fluffy2560 Next time you need help in the city, come over my place! Parking available!

Australia is pushing back. The Spanish are pushing back. The Greek are pushing back. And other countries are building fences and bring soldiers to the border. And then there are countries that let everybody in and within a short period of time they are all gone. And then there are the accepted refugees from e.g. Syria that live e.g. in Germany and go back to Syria on holiday to visit family. It's all not so easy.
-@nz7521137

And look where it's getting them?  A huge amount of negative publicity and poor views of those countries.  And they are causing the deaths of  people in need of assistance.  Everyday there are news reports of inhumane treatment on borders.  The latest one is Yemen/Saudi Arabia where border guards shoot and kill people.  Same with the people trapped on the island between Greece and Turkey.  Bosnia was beating refugees.  You can Google these stories.   Such behaviour is not acceptable in 2023.   

And look where it's getting them? A huge amount of negative publicity and poor views of those countries. And they are causing the deaths of people in need of assistance. Everyday there are news reports of inhumane treatment on borders. The latest one is Yemen/Saudi Arabia where border guards shoot and kill people. Same with the people trapped on the island between Greece and Turkey. Bosnia was beating refugees. You can Google these stories.  Such behaviour is not acceptable in 2023. 
-@fluffy2560

Who cares about negative publicity and poor views of those countries? The bashing of countries is very selective anyway.

The ones that are causing the deaths of people in need of assistance are those countries funding and supporting e.g. the war of the Saudis against Yemen or those that have turned Libya from the most developed country of Africa into the hellhole it is today. I think that the world of today is driven by hypocrisy. It's all about money, power and influence.

Overall it is very sad that so many poor people want (or have) to leave their home country (only the strongest do and the weakest are left behind) and I fully understand why they want to move to the richest countries in Europe. But Europe cannot solve the problems of Africa by bringing the Africans to Europe. Maybe they should export opportunities instead of waste.

@fluffy2560 Next time you need help in the city, come over my place! Parking available!
-@Vicces1

Haha, thanks, I will make a mental note. 

From my place to Moscow Square (it's not Szell Kalman to me) it's 20m on the bus and 20m walk to the river opposite the parliament.  Walking back from the river post-fireworks, it was just completely full of pedestrians. No cars could move. And the bus was jammed with people! Huge crowds trying to get down the escalator to the metro station too.

Who cares about negative publicity and poor views of those countries? The bashing of countries is very selective anyway.

-@nz7521137

They care.   

I missed the fireworks show.

Didn't even wish to watch it on tv like my husband did.

Same old, same old.

Never liked fireworks much. Seen the show at Disneyland many times, did the old 4th of July thing at home as a child. Parents buying sparklers and rockets.

Just too much noise and smell for me.

The first time we were in Hungary in 1978 my in-laws took us to see fireworks on the Danube. That I remember well but I know we were in Hungary in early Sept. so not sure what the hoop-la was for.

Maybe it was a delayed August 20th show?

Went to the spa yesterday, finally we have some summer heat.

It was great as usual.

Not sure if lake Lupa is closed for the season but my husband now refuses to go there any more until they dredge the lake from undergrowth.

It was nice and blue a few years ago but has turned brownish with all the vegatation growing under water.

He said he feels like something will grab him and drag him underwater.

The thing is that is exactly what happened to me yesterday in the lap pool!

Some old lady was doing back strokes when I got into the lane to share with her.

Every lane had at least 2 people in it so I tried to find a lane with a medium fast swimmer.

Some days I do drag...

I was doing the breast stroke as she past by me.

She was hogging the enitre lane so I slowed down and moved to the side as she passed me.

I then went on and out of nowehre she grabbed my ankle!

I didn't freak out at all, just calmly kicked my foot losse and turned to her and said, OK, what's up?

She smiled and spoke Hungarian, Not sure what she was going on about. I think it startled her to share a lane and paniced so she grabbed me to steady herself?

Why not grab the rope instead? I just swam on and far away from her,decided to enter another lane and leave that lady alone. Why didn't she swim in a shallow pool if she can't handle the action in 6 feet of water?

Oh well, never know , it's either the Creature from the Black Lagoon or an old lady freaking out. I'd rather take my changes with murky water then an old wild women.

I can see now why lifeguards use those floating devices instead of being dragged down by a panicking person.

Other then that. it was allot of fun, will try to go again this week before the weather changes once again.

@fluffy2560 That's funny -- I still call it Moszkva ter in my head before correcting to Szell Kalman.

@fluffy2560 That's funny -- I still call it Moszkva ter in my head before correcting to Szell Kalman.
-@Vicces1

We can keep calling it Moscow Square and maybe we'll start a thing going.

Or even better maybe we should start calling it Zelensky Square or Kyiv Square. Or to honour one particular contributor here, Chicken Kiev Square. It should appeal. Actually, while I'm on a roll, we could rename Moscow Square as Margot Robbie Ringway or Barbie Boulevard.

Who the hell was Szell Kalman anyway? And like the Romans, what did he ever do for us?

Apparently people here used to call places by their pre-Commie names. It was common parlance. I don't think it's so common now. New generations never lived under the communists or the threat of communists.

We've got a new'ish sewage treatment plant in my village. I'm voting to rename it the "OV memorial poo factory".

Budapest stadiums should bring in WizzAir to redesign their seating. They could probably cram in an extra 20,000 people.
-@zif

That is really funny.

Pack and stack them!

I've never flown on Wizz Air but I can imagine, bad enough how the big airlines treat their customers.

My deceased brother and his wife both worked for American Airlines. He for over 35 years and she for over 40 plus.

Both were mechanics.

He feel madly in love when he saw her on top of a jets wing using a rivet gun.

It's funny, really, some men see a lady in a swimsuit and others see one in overhauls and giving orders and fall madly in love.

He told me well over a decade ago that the airlines all planed on making legroom and seats smaller and smaller. He was on a crew that were reconfigurating seats to get more people on each flight.

He said it was just greed and it made him sick.

Budapest stadiums should bring in WizzAir to redesign their seating. They could probably cram in an extra 20,000 people.
-@zif
That is really funny.
Pack and stack them!
I've never flown on Wizz Air but I can imagine, bad enough how the big airlines treat their customers.
My deceased brother and his wife both worked for American Airlines. He for over 35 years and she for over 40 plus.
Both were mechanics.
He feel madly in love when he saw her on top of a jets wing using a rivet gun.
It's funny, really, some men see a lady in a swimsuit and others see one in overhauls and giving orders and fall madly in love.
He told me well over a decade ago that the airlines all planed on making legroom and seats smaller and smaller. He was on a crew that were reconfigurating seats to get more people on each flight.
He said it was just greed and it made him sick.
-@Marilyn Tassy

Lufthansa has kind of slim line seats which are more like deck chairs with metal frame.   Not like the "fat" seats of old.  They are quite comfortable though.  Their planes are very new but the flight attendants are often ancient.

Was your bro's wife called Rosie?

If she was, that's a Whole Lotta Rosie.

Appreciate the input but unfortunately, dictionaries ain't part of the law.

-@fluffy2560

Ah, I see. You, as you said before, object to the colloquial term and are seeking legal definitions:

I object to the term "illegal migrant".  Other terms like undocumented or irregular may be used by some. The term "illegal" is highly inaccurate

It seems thus a symatic issue with a term or phrase. I am cool with that. And thus you may have a valid point.

However..... There are legal codes that realate to this topic.

I do not read or speak Hungarian, so I can not give a Hungarian example. Sadly so, since this is the Hungarian forum.

So I will give one American example (only one, as the US legal code is vast). Thus, there is, as an example, a US legal definition that does exist for "improper entry". And it is defined as :

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

You can look up the law (providing links here seems to prevent the post from being valid at times so I will not direct post). When you read the law, you will see it includeds by default includes the options for things like refugees and asylum as long as such claims are followed under the law (i.e. such status must be claimed at officlal points of entry). Thus, and as one example, one can not sneak across the boarder then claim assylum, one must claim assylum at an official entry point for such claims to be valid (what are offical entery points, is another topic which one can reasearch if one has time).

Hope this helps.

So I will give one American example (only one, as the US legal code is vast). Thus, there is, as an example, a US legal definition that does exist for "improper entry". And it is defined as :

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

You can look up the law (providing links here seems to prevent the post from being valid at times so I will not direct post). When you read the law, you will see it includeds by default includes the options for things like refugees and asylum as long as such claims are followed under the law (i.e. such status must be claimed at officlal points of entry). Thus, and as one example, one can not sneak across the border then claim asylum, one must claim asylum at an official entry point for such claims to be valid (which may be another lay of complication, what are offical entery points, that is another layer of debate and which one can reasearch if one has time).

Hope this helps.
-@Saint Coemgen

I suppose it does help a bit.  I'm OK with irregular, improper etc but not illegal.

But what you say is not entirely true about unofficial points of entry in all countries.

Have you ever seen the videos of people crossing in an irregular manner to Canada at Roxham Road?

This is quite interesting in terms of how the Canadians say, don't cross here but don't actually do anything to stop them other than giving them some verbal advice to tell them to go back. If they are determined, they help them out with services on the Canadian side.  Pretty cool. You can see more on the video (skip to 1m).

These people are claiming asylum, mainly at the time of Trump's presidency but there's still a steady trickle post-COVID. And of course, if Trump comes back in, Canada will see a spike again at Roxham Road. Maybe Trump will be doing time in a Georgia lockup for RICO violations. Unfortunately I read today it will take a few years before Trump is actually on trial.