Absolutely Anything Else

            Like I said, it's not about me.  BTW, I don't have a 16 year old daughter.      -@fluffy2560If you did - Would you allow a woman with a penis to enter a shower room with her?        -@FredI'm not on your obvious agenda Fredo.  And it's a strawman argument.But as you insist, I'll answer your question another way. I favour gender neutral private facilities then your question does not arise. I've been in numerous public places and offices where there are gender neutral private rooms.  This is an obvious way to go.BTW, to show the absurdity of your and many others arguments and indeed legislation around this, what do you think about this person being in your daughter's changing room? It's not a one way street!Buck Angel-@fluffy2560

I drug addict porn star with mental health issues - That's your argument???
Of course I wouldn't want a drunken drug abuser in the same room as her.
I see you're still totally failing to say what JK has actually done that's so hateful.
Still, the attempt at deflection almost had me for a moment.

What are JK's crimes?
   

    -@Fred

Nah, see my other post on JKR - we crossed posted.

It's not a deflection, just to say, it's not a one way argument.  Some people are going the other way.

The  point is that Buck Angel is genetically a woman.  He can appear in your daughter's changing rooms as he satisfies all the "bathroom" criteria so beloved by the right in some countries.

Anyhoo, we're going to get into trouble with the moderators if we keep this up.   I think we should agree to differ and tone it down.

JKR is divisive and uses discriminatory language.   No wonder people disagree with her.    She's got some psychological problem she needs to sort out.  Other people know how to moderate their language.       -@fluffy2560

Quote me a quote.

Show me how terrible she is.

You've just added another layer to this. You now claim JK has some sort of mental health issue, but you provide no evidence.

Wiki says

Article 58-10 of the Stalin-era Criminal Code, "Anti-Soviet agitation", was to a considerable degree preserved in the new 1958 RSFSR Criminal Code as Article 70 "Anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda". In 1967, a weaker law, Article 190-1 "Dissemination of fabrications known to be false, which defame the Soviet political and social system", was added to the RSFSR Criminal Code. These laws were frequently applied in conjunction with the system of diagnosis for mental illness, developed by academician Andrei Snezhnevsky. Together, they established a framework within which non-standard beliefs could easily be defined as a criminal offence and the basis, subsequently, for a psychiatric diagnosis.

You have openly suggested JK opposes your ideal so she must be mentally ill.

Do you realise how dangerous that line of thought is?

https://www.glamour.com/story/a-complet … ontroversy

Quote me the hate posts

    JKR is divisive and uses discriminatory language.   No wonder people disagree with her.    She's got some psychological problem she needs to sort out.  Other people know how to moderate their language.       -@fluffy2560Quote me a quote.Show me how terrible she is.You've just added another layer to this. You now claim JK has some sort of mental health issue, but you provide no evidence.Wiki saysArticle 58-10 of the Stalin-era Criminal Code, "Anti-Soviet agitation", was to a considerable degree preserved in the new 1958 RSFSR Criminal Code as Article 70 "Anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda". In 1967, a weaker law, Article 190-1 "Dissemination of fabrications known to be false, which defame the Soviet political and social system", was added to the RSFSR Criminal Code. These laws were frequently applied in conjunction with the system of diagnosis for mental illness, developed by academician Andrei Snezhnevsky. Together, they established a framework within which non-standard beliefs could easily be defined as a criminal offence and the basis, subsequently, for a psychiatric diagnosis.You have openly suggested JK opposes your ideal so she must be mentally ill.Do you realise how dangerous that line of thought is?        -@Fred

I live in a former Communist country - Hungary.  During the Communist period, Russia and most of those in its sphere kept people on the edge of criminality.  We can see it now in some form with Putin.  There was always a catch all to put people in clink on trumped up charges.   

In my mind, JKR's behaviour needs her to go and get some counselling.  Vehement hatred of a section of society is not normal.  As I said, it's "othering" people do make them less. 

What you ask me about JKR is homework and I don't do that.  And I've got other things to do right now.  But there are trustworthy Wiki pages and other material you can look up to get better informed.

Of course, JKR is not really the question now, it's about yourself and your belief system.   

Maybe the question is what do you have against LGBT people?

It's not like they haven't existed in society forever, even where you live.                                 

What you ask me about JKR is homework and I don't do that.  And I've got other things to do right now.  But there are trustworthy Wiki pages and other material you can look up to get better informed.

    -@fluffy2560

Let me get this right.

You refuse to tell us what JK's crimes are, and refuse to post any evidence

You also claim she is suffering from some form of mental illness because of the crimes you can't show any evidence of.

Your argument is extremely dangerous to society in general, and pretty much the same as the worst authoritarian leaders the world has every seen.

Evidence is unimportant as long as you shut them up

Of course, JKR is not really the question now, it's about yourself and your belief system.   

Maybe the question is what do you have against LGBT people?

It's not like they haven't existed in society forever, even where you live.                                 
   

    -@fluffy2560

You have made a new accusation. Please provide evidence to show I'm anti-LGBT.

It might well be difficult as the evidence is only in your mind.

Hang on - I disagree with your position - I must be mentally ill.

Sill me, I failed to consider that.

Where are we?

We have a man who claims JK is guilty of serious hate crimes, but refuses to provide evidence.

The same man accuses her of mental illness. That also creates concerns as extremist states have a track record of using fake mental illness as a vehicle to get rid of people they dislike.

Now we have a new accusation I'm anti-LGBT - There's no evidence at all, but it's a really handy accusation if you want to discredit someone who holds a differing point of view.

I recall the same poster musing about how extremist governments get into, and hold onto, power.

They create an ideal, and popularise it at least in their own minds and those who believe the propaganda.

They terrorise and dehumanise people who disagree with their extreme views.

They make false accusations in order to remove voices they don't want to hear.

Strangly enough, the same poster refuses to say if he would marry a woman with a penis, or allow women with penises to shower in a girls' changing room.

I believe the refusal suggests the poster doesn't want to admit his true position as he knows it's as nutty as a fruitcake and has no real support.

Creating gender neutral toilets, changing rooms, and removing other private spaces where women should be able to feel safe is beyond crazy. Taking away the rights and safety of women in favour of a silly political ideal is nuts.

The one thing the transactivist lot forget is they have to remove the rights of around 50% of the population in order to get their crazy ideal to work.

    What you ask me about JKR is homework and I don't do that.  And I've got other things to do right now.  But there are trustworthy Wiki pages and other material you can look up to get better informed.    -@fluffy2560Let me get this right.You refuse to tell us what JK's crimes are, and refuse to post any evidenceYou also claim she is suffering from some form of mental illness because of the crimes you can't show any evidence of.Your argument is extremely dangerous to society in general, and pretty much the same as the worst authoritarian leaders the world has every seen.Evidence is unimportant as long as you shut them up        -@Fred

I'm not refusing, I'm suggesting you look it up yourself.  I can do it but I'm busy elsewhere today. 

If it really matters to you, then just Google it.

I'll look forward to your balanced report, on my desk, by Friday, oh wait, it's a public holiday, next Monday.

    Where are we?We have a man who claims JK is guilty of serious hate crimes, but refuses to provide evidence.The same man accuses her of mental illness. That also creates concerns as extremist states have a track record of using fake mental illness as a vehicle to get rid of people they dislike.Now we have a new accusation I'm anti-LGBT - There's no evidence at all, but it's a really handy accusation if you want to discredit someone who holds a differing point of view.I recall the same poster musing about how extremist governments get into, and hold onto, power.They create an ideal, and popularise it at least in their own minds and those who believe the propaganda.They terrorise and dehumanise people who disagree with their extreme views.They make false accusations in order to remove voices they don't want to hear.Strangly enough, the same poster refuses to say if he would marry a woman with a penis, or allow women with penises to shower in a girls' changing room.I believe the refusal suggests the poster doesn't want to admit his true position as he knows it's as nutty as a fruitcake and has no real support.Creating gender neutral toilets, changing rooms, and removing other private spaces where women should be able to feel safe is beyond crazy. Taking away the rights and safety of women in favour of a silly political ideal is nuts.The one thing the transactivist lot forget is they have to remove the rights of around 50% of the population in order to get their crazy ideal to work.         -@Fred

Your premise is that trans people are a physical or existential threat, either to your 16-year old daughter or anyone else.  That somehow their existence is dangerous.  That's patently untrue.  It's people that are a threat to other people. 

One only has to look at the crime stats.  Very few crimes are directly attributable to any LGBT cause.  Most people of any persuasion just want to get on with their lives in peace. 

But let's ask if you feel threatened by Buck Angel in your bathroom facilities?  Or in your daughter's?

How  would you know who is who?  Obviously you don't!

What ya goin' to do? Ask everyone to drop their underwear?  Or better, take a DNA test? 

It's just not going to happen.

People said the sky would fall in if gay marriage was allowed.  Of course it didn't happen.  Nothing happened at all,  Except some people became happy to marry their life partners.  Yay!

I don't know what your motivation for opposing LGBT people is but whatever it is, it's swimming against society's direction of travel.

Anyway, I'm getting bored now. 

I'm not refusing, I'm suggesting you look it up yourself.  I can do it but I'm busy elsewhere today. 
    -@fluffy2560

Ah, the ultimate admission of loss.

I can't, so I'll pretemd I'm right and ask the sensible side of the argument to prove a negitive.

I call upon you to post evidence of JK's bigotry or post an apology to her on this thread.

I call on you to prove she's suffering from mental illness or post an apology to her, and people who suffer from real mental illness as you have downgraded a real world issue to a silly political point.

I also call upon you to prove I'm anti-LGBT - You made the accusation - Prove it or post an apology.

Your premise is that trans people are a physical or existential threat, either to your 16-year old daughter or anyone else.  That somehow their existence is dangerous.  That's patently untrue.  It's people that are a threat to other people. 
    -@fluffy2560

I wonder how many ladies would agree that people with a penis should be allowed in female toilets, changing rooms, and so on.

It makes me so happy that I live in a place that won't allow that stupidity any time soon.

I don't know what your motivation for opposing LGBT people is but whatever it is, it's swimming against society's direction of travel.

Anyway, I'm getting bored now. 
   
    -@fluffy2560

There goes that accusation again

PROVE IT OR APOLOGISE

Same sex dressing rooms even freak me out.

I NEVER saw my 3 sisters or my mother in the raw.

Goes without saying, never saw my father that way either!

My biggest fear was in HS when our  gay female gym teacher had us all take showers and then get in a line in front of her so she could cross off our names as having taken a shower after class.

Man, those towels they provided just were not large enough for me!

Please do not ask how we 13 14 year old girls knew our teacher was gay, she stared a bit too long at everyone ,some more then others...Always with the turn around and let me see your back side...

My BFF, Lisa got in a verbal fight with her, she was only 14 at the time.

It was freezing cold out and the gym teacher forced everyone to wear shorts and not our warm sweat pants. The teacher was wearing sweat pants so Lisa called her out about it.

Felt like she wanted to look at everyones legs in class. Yikes, kids just know when things are creepy.

Only time my mother invited me to see her chest was after her mastectomy. She wanted me to be so afraid that I made sure to get tested .

My deceased sister had many gay friends, both male and female.

I know that gay people do not hit on straight people, they do not push themselves on anyone.

Funny about the nudity. My husband used to go to nudist beaches, before he met me.

My biggest fear was in HS when our  gay female gym teacher had us all take showers and then get in a line in front of her so she could cross off our names as having taken a shower after class.
Man, those towels they provided just were not large enough for me!
Please do not ask how we 13 14 year old girls knew our teacher was gay, she stared a bit too long at everyone ,some more then others...Always with the turn around and let me see your back side...
My BFF, Lisa got in a verbal fight with her, she was only 14 at the time.
It was freezing cold out and the gym teacher forced everyone to wear shorts and not our warm sweat pants. The teacher was wearing sweat pants so Lisa called her out about it.
Felt like she wanted to look at everyones legs in class. Yikes, kids just know when things are creepy.
    -@Marilyn Tassy

You seems to be saying you were uncomfortable with a someone  you felt was eyeing you up with sexual interest.

How would you feel about sharing a shower with a woman endowed with a penis?

Hello everyone,

Though this thread doesn't have any "topic" could we please change the subject ?

Reading the few past posts, the conversation is getting sterile.

Thank you in advance

Bhavna

    I don't know what your motivation for opposing LGBT people is but whatever it is, it's swimming against society's direction of travel. Anyway, I'm getting bored now.          -@fluffy2560

There goes that accusation again
PROVE IT OR APOLOGISE
   

    -@Fred

I'm not apologising for getting bored. 

    Hello everyone,
Though this thread doesn't have any "topic" could we please change the subject ?

Reading the few past posts, the conversation is getting sterile.

Thank you in advance
Bhavna
   

    -@Bhavna

I agree with you Bhavna.   

I said I was getting bored which was a big hint.

To let it all calm down, I'm going to do some gardening and shed tidying instead.

    My biggest fear was in HS when our  gay female gym teacher had us all take showers and then get in a line in front of her so she could cross off our names as having taken a shower after class.Man, those towels they provided just were not large enough for me!Please do not ask how we 13 14 year old girls knew our teacher was gay, she stared a bit too long at everyone ,some more then others...Always with the turn around and let me see your back side...My BFF, Lisa got in a verbal fight with her, she was only 14 at the time.It was freezing cold out and the gym teacher forced everyone to wear shorts and not our warm sweat pants. The teacher was wearing sweat pants so Lisa called her out about it.Felt like she wanted to look at everyones legs in class. Yikes, kids just know when things are creepy.    -@Marilyn Tassy

You seems to be saying you were uncomfortable with a someone  you felt was eyeing you up with sexual interest.
How would you feel about sharing a shower with a woman endowed with a penis?
   

    -@Fred

Oh my!! We have opened up a can of worms!

During my teen years in a S. Ca. school .We were required  to take a shower after PE, gym class.

Open showers where they had IDK, perhaps 40 showers?

Everyone was mortified, going from elementary school to having to get nude in front of others.

I swear to God at that age, I never thought, saw or considered  what the other sex was ,packing. Doubt any of my school mates did either.

I consider it was a form of child abuse.

I got out of it for years till the end of school by dislocating my knee and having a doctors excuse to miss PE class for life!

That too was a form of abuse because they took all the children with a health issue and just left them to rot.

Sat on the benches either reading, talking or picking our noses as we had to watch the others do sports.

        My biggest fear was in HS when our  gay female gym teacher had us all take showers and then get in a line in front of her so she could cross off our names as having taken a shower after class.Man, those towels they provided just were not large enough for me!Please do not ask how we 13 14 year old girls knew our teacher was gay, she stared a bit too long at everyone ,some more then others...Always with the turn around and let me see your back side...My BFF, Lisa got in a verbal fight with her, she was only 14 at the time.It was freezing cold out and the gym teacher forced everyone to wear shorts and not our warm sweat pants. The teacher was wearing sweat pants so Lisa called her out about it.Felt like she wanted to look at everyones legs in class. Yikes, kids just know when things are creepy.    -@Marilyn TassyYou seems to be saying you were uncomfortable with a someone  you felt was eyeing you up with sexual interest.How would you feel about sharing a shower with a woman endowed with a penis?        -@Fred

Oh my!! We have opened up a can of worms!
During my teen years in a S. Ca. school .We were required  to take a shower after PE, gym class.
Open showers where they had IDK, perhaps 40 showers?
Everyone was mortified, going from elementary school to having to get nude in front of others.
I swear to God at that age, I never thought, saw or considered  what the other sex was ,packing. Doubt any of my school mates did either.
I consider it was a form of child abuse.
I got out of it for years till the end of school by dislocating my knee and having a doctors excuse to miss PE class for life!
That too was a form of abuse because they took all the children with a health issue and just left them to rot.
Sat on the benches either reading, talking or picking our noses as we had to watch the others do sports.
   

    -@Marilyn Tassy

The entire system is messed up. 

Imagine, teenage self-conscious thinking and shoved in the communal showers.   

It's just an entirely horrible idea and very degrading for anyone growing up. 

I've always thought PE teachers were some kind of sadists.   

IDK if they still force young adults, teenagers to strip and shower in gym or not.

I am not even sure they require PE classes any longer if you do not want them.

Our PE teacher was one of two gay women teaching all the jrhigh girls. Jr. high in my time was about age 13 to 15, 7th to 9th grade in the US.

I love some sports but they forced them all on you. I remember when they forced us to do 6 weeks of gymnastic classes.

Many girls just were not built for it.

The balance beam, I am 5 foot 8 inches tall, not really many tall people can do that.

I passed but my fear of heights took a hit!

Running and jumping over the horse was easy for me but not for others.

What pissed us all off was the teachers Pet. A chick who took private gymnastic classes and was short and sturdy in build. She would be used to do demos of what was expected of us.

There she flies like a bird on the parallel bars etc.

We had to swing and grab the other bar mid air...Or crash.

Now volley ball was made for me, basketball too if I liked that game, which I did not.

Also forced and picked on teams in school because I was tall. I dislike the game except for doing my thing myself at home tossing hoops with my brother.

I rather enjoyed my years in ,handicapped PE. Teachers left us alone, we could walk out of the gym and they never questioned us.

        I don't know what your motivation for opposing LGBT people is but whatever it is, it's swimming against society's direction of travel. Anyway, I'm getting bored now.          -@fluffy2560There goes that accusation again PROVE IT OR APOLOGISE        -@Fred

I'm not apologising for getting bored. 
   

    -@fluffy2560

No, but unfounded allegations are pretty bad so you really should apologise to me (If you are the gentleman I assume you are - Time will tell on that one)

However, my school sports were not much fun a lot of the time as my inability so see meant the main game at my place, football, was a pointless waste of time - But they forced us to try almost every week.

On the odd occasion we were given Rugby or cross country running, that was more like it. You don't really need to see the ball when your main job is to take out the man with the ball.

My teachers, as far as I'm aware were pretty much straight but my maths teacher was a lesbian. Her sexualaity was neither of interest nor consequence, but she was an evil little cow of the worst sort.

The whole class hated her, even the class swot. Most of us failed our maths O level that year, but we all passed the retake after a few months with a real teacher.

What we were unaware of, was the teachers all hated her as well. I was told many years later that none of the staff would talk to her at all.

Some of the kids would go to her house to smash her windows - I never did, but there was no way I was going to tell on the ones who did.

I, along with a few mates in the upper sixth, bounced her stupid little Fiat car 90 degrees so she got well and truly stuck in her parking space.

I only saw her once after I left school. She tried to speak to me but I replied with just the two words. The ones Scottish people appear to abbreviate to 'offski'

There was a site called 'ratemyteacher' That was a fun read. I looked up a few of the best, and the comments on them were pretty great.

I looked up the maths teacher - Oops - Total hatred from every poster.

On a far brighter note, we also had some of the best teachers in the country. My other two Maths teachers were nothing sort of stunning, and my physics and biology teachers were amazing at minimum.

One of my history teachers turned the text books into stories. The bloke was a genius and the class results confirmed it. Most of us got an A in our O level.

            I don't know what your motivation for opposing LGBT people is but whatever it is, it's swimming against society's direction of travel. Anyway, I'm getting bored now.          -@fluffy2560There goes that accusation again PROVE IT OR APOLOGISE        -@FredI'm not apologising for getting bored.          -@fluffy2560

No, but unfounded allegations are pretty bad so you really should apologise to me (If you are the gentleman I assume you are - Time will tell on that one)

    -@Fred

I took the hint from the moderators and stopped discussing that particular aspect of this thread. 

I'd rather stop talking about it in order to save the entire forum topic.  It wouldn't be good if it was stopped and closed because of a minor disagreement.

We'll just have to agree to differ and move on.

                I don't know what your motivation for opposing LGBT people is but whatever it is, it's swimming against society's direction of travel. Anyway, I'm getting bored now.          -@fluffy2560There goes that accusation again PROVE IT OR APOLOGISE        -@FredI'm not apologising for getting bored.          -@fluffy2560No, but unfounded allegations are pretty bad so you really should apologise to me (If you are the gentleman I assume you are - Time will tell on that one)    -@Fred

I took the hint from the moderators and stopped discussing that particular aspect of this thread. 

I'd rather stop talking about it in order to save the entire forum topic.  It wouldn't be good if it was stopped and closed because of a minor disagreement.

We'll just have to agree to differ and move on.
   

    -@fluffy2560

It appears my assumption was inaccurate. How disappointing.

One of the greatest problems with the internet is how easy it is to throw insults around whilst hiding.

Ho hum.

On a brighter note, I am now a CBer again. I hold two amateur radio licences, but there's something fun about CB. I got a local license for that one, bought a rig, and off I go.

I recall hours of fun building aerials in the early 80. Home made designs back then were limited to theory in books and immigration, but we have the internet now so information is easy to find. Throw in immigration and a lot of experience, and it's playtime.

I think a roll up J pole on a thin canvas strip is first on the list. I've never built one for 11m so it'll be interesting to see how it performs.

There was a time when you could debate someone, holding fast your beliefs but open to evidence and of a disposition that new evidence or points of view would engage the audience into new thinking. However, the internet has provided an echo chamber and an anonymous safety net where people can say anything without severe repercussions and they will find others somewhere who agree with them, reinforcing their thoughts that what they think is shared with a significant minority or more.

People who are close-minded are trolls. They live under the bridge simply stoking erroneous claims in the hopes of a false debate -- outraged words from behind their keyboard without ever putting any thought to the actual content, just focusing on the reactions.

I've learned to ignore those folks. Anyone who is so ignorant, so arrogant to think their thoughts are the only unassailable and correct thoughts in this large fabric of humanity and experiences should really be simply ignored. Not being heard is the backlash they deserve. And it's really a waste of time for anyone with enough sanity to waste our emotions or precious time with these meaningless, insignificant people.

    On a brighter note, I am now a CBer again. I hold two amateur radio licences, but there's something fun about CB. I got a local license for that one, bought a rig, and off I go.
I recall hours of fun building aerials in the early 80. Home made designs back then were limited to theory in books and immigration, but we have the internet now so information is easy to find. Throw in immigration and a lot of experience, and it's playtime.
I think a roll up J pole on a thin canvas strip is first on the list. I've never built one for 11m so it'll be interesting to see how it performs.
   

    -@Fred

I also hold an amateur radio licence but I almost never use my rigs and much remains in a box or unused in my cars centre console - no-one to speak to here on 2m or 70cm.

I've been interested in packet radio as this expands the radio universe into the Internet and makes it so international to get access to very far away repeaters.  However, I'd have to upgrade to use my rigs as none are capable.  Also my portables' batteries have gone dead and I could not find it economical to replace them.

Around here, I have some Euro-compatible PMR-446 radios which we can use around the house or if we go somewhere by multiple cars and in a convoy.  I am always surprised that others use the band to do the same when on the road.  I almost never hear anyone around here particularly though.   One thing I like about those particular radios is they charge off 5V USB.  Very convenient.

I've got some antennas to put up on my shed for 144 Mhz but never got around to it and it'll need some lightning protection.   I also have some large satellite dishes - various small ones but some monsters - a solid heavy "pro" 1.2m and one in sections 2.4m (still in its box after quite some years).

    There was a time when you could debate someone, holding fast your beliefs but open to evidence and of a disposition that new evidence or points of view would engage the audience into new thinking. However, the internet has provided an echo chamber and an anonymous safety net where people can say anything without severe repercussions and they will find others somewhere who agree with them, reinforcing their thoughts that what they think is shared with a significant minority or more.People who are close-minded are trolls. They live under the bridge simply stoking erroneous claims in the hopes of a false debate -- outraged words from behind their keyboard without ever putting any thought to the actual content, just focusing on the reactions.I've learned to ignore those folks. Anyone who is so ignorant, so arrogant to think their thoughts are the only unassailable and correct thoughts in this large fabric of humanity and experiences should really be simply ignored. Not being heard is the backlash they deserve. And it's really a waste of time for anyone with enough sanity to waste our emotions or precious time with these meaningless, insignificant people.        -@Vicces1

I agree with that.   The worst thing is the echo chamber concept.  Some people of a particular belief set have weak critical thinking skills.

I continue to be amazed that people just do not know about basic things like the capital cities of other countries.  This is just such basic knowledge of geography.  Or even knowledge of history, particularly the lessons and parallels of WW2.   

What really stuns me is the callers into LBC (it's a UK talk radio channel based mainly in London, available on Internet) have such very naive views.  And these people will vote in elections for some of the lunatics who make policy.  Trump is a case in point - latest polls say, being a convicted criminal is not likely to stop people voting for him, even if he's doing time in Club Fed.   

People continue to call for peace dialogue with Putin over Ukraine or negotiations with Israel and Netanyahu over Hamas.  Sure, we all want peace, but those people aren't going to stop regardless.   

It kind of reminds me of the criticism over the destruction of the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.  They were just squashed and no dialogue.   All the winners have to do is gain full control and wait 5, 10, 20, whatever years and foreign powers for "reconciliation" will be back soon enough.   People forget and some people forget more than others.

                    I don't know what your motivation for opposing LGBT people is but whatever it is, it's swimming against society's direction of travel. Anyway, I'm getting bored now.          -@fluffy2560There goes that accusation again PROVE IT OR APOLOGISE        -@FredI'm not apologising for getting bored.          -@fluffy2560No, but unfounded allegations are pretty bad so you really should apologise to me (If you are the gentleman I assume you are - Time will tell on that one)    -@FredI took the hint from the moderators and stopped discussing that particular aspect of this thread.  I'd rather stop talking about it in order to save the entire forum topic.  It wouldn't be good if it was stopped and closed because of a minor disagreement. We'll just have to agree to differ and move on.        -@fluffy2560

It appears my assumption was inaccurate. How disappointing.
One of the greatest problems with the internet is how easy it is to throw insults around whilst hiding.
Ho hum.
   

    -@Fred

There's no such thing as a gentleman in a fight. 

I could fight back over your views but I value this entire topic more than I value arguing with you.

And luckily, you don't make the rules.   Like I said, moderators told US to shut up.   

It's the end of that discussion.   

Yesterday we strolled around on the Korso downtown. I may of misspelled that one.

Missed the huge gathering at the National museum where OV gave his pep talk.

In a square, Deak Ter we heard a whistle blowing away none stop.

Several people were screaming and chanting about OV. It was hard to make out what they were shouting. Even my husband could not make it out but here and there different political groups were doing their thing.

Mixed in with clueless tourists.

Strolled on past some high priced clothing shops. Fashion, IDK, torn faded ripped up jeans for real $$?

My husband had better looking jeans for his car repair jobs!

What is the new agenda with old, poor, ragged looking clothing? Is it a sign of the times to come?

During war times the fashion is usually more practical or military looking but poor looking rags? Thing to come?  Hope not.

Suppose I should not worry until they start selling ragged, torn, military clothing.

There's no such thing as a gentleman in a fight. 

I could fight back over your views but I value this entire topic more than I value arguing with you.

And luckily, you don't make the rules.   Like I said, moderators told US to shut up.   

It's the end of that discussion.   
   

    -@fluffy2560

What fight? I did not insult anyone, nor did I make an accusations

I put forward a point of view without hate. It's called a debate.

Sadly, others are incapable.

    Yesterday we strolled around on the Korso downtown. I may of misspelled that one.Missed the huge gathering at the National museum where OV gave his pep talk.In a square, Deak Ter we heard a whistle blowing away none stop.Several people were screaming and chanting about OV. It was hard to make out what they were shouting. Even my husband could not make it out but here and there different political groups were doing their thing.Mixed in with clueless tourists.Strolled on past some high priced clothing shops. Fashion, IDK, torn faded ripped up jeans for real $$?My husband had better looking jeans for his car repair jobs!What is the new agenda with old, poor, ragged looking clothing? Is it a sign of the times to come?During war times the fashion is usually more practical or military looking but poor looking rags? Thing to come?  Hope not.Suppose I should not worry until they start selling ragged, torn, military clothing.        -@Marilyn Tassy

You can get OV's  blatherings in a nutshell here.   Lot of misguided people attending the echo chamber.   

Magyar Peter is also creating his own party but that could be just Fidesz-lite.  He was an acolyte previously. I doubt he's fundamentally changed his spots.

I am disturbed to see right wing parties are in the ascendancy in Brussels.

i wear camouflage military clothing quite a lot.  It's cheap and hard wearing.  It's quite popular though here for outside workers.  I saw a guy in British military clothing stacking wood in his garden.  I recognised it as I've got some of the same pattern (from the 1980s).

However, when I go to the Caribbean, I have to leave it all at home.  Clothing like that - even fashion versions - is not allowed in most of the countries out that way.  It's like para-military forces, so big no-no. 

I have a summer top , greenish tie dyed with a red star on it.

My husband said \\I can not wear it here, brings up too many memories for people...

No big deal, just one of the many I picked up on the cheap second hand in the US.

Have many t shirts I never would of bought but at a buck or two each, well fitting, and slightly cool, why not?

Most of my , Rock and Roll shirts were just found in good shape second hand.

I never would again purchase a t shirt for $50. or more at a concert.

In HS our fave second hand shop was military surplus.

Found the coolest white US navy dress shirt , fit well .Wore it with my jeans and Army style desert boots.

Funny back in the day it was a huge insult to tell someone their mother wore Army boots.

Now everyone is wearing chunky thick boots.

Not good really with their rubber souls on the bottom. No way to ground wearing rubber.

I used to pick up fancy old style mens shoes, change out the strings and replace with silk or velvet ribbons.

No wonder, my friends and i were called, weirdos in HS.

Considered a compliment now.

On the Korso the other day , 2 young men came strolling while we sat and watched people walk by.

One of them was dressed to the 9s. Had on what appeared to me to be a custom made wool suit with vest.

Fit him like a glove, only thing I did not like was his choice of hat wear. A black leather baseball cap, just did not go with the suit.

I love fashion, can size somene up with one look, can tell within reason how much the spent on an item, well at least I used to be able to.

Not so sure now when everyone dresses down so much and they sell ripped jeans for serious money.

As an ex hairdresser, I used to be able to figure out within reason how much someone spent on their haircuts.

Now, I am not really impressed at all by they styles most women are wearing. The mens cuts have gotten more clean cut in HU in the last few years with the razor cuts and barber shops all over.

The womens styles not to have changed much since the 80,s. After the Farrah cut of the 70.s it all looks the same, nothing new.

What cracks me up is here in HU I often see women with pink or purple hair but it does not match their ages or fashion style. Seems like someone talked them into something they can not carry off.

My one friend is around 64 , 65 years old and still doing hair. She is from PR.

She has to move from shop to shop because the other stylists are always jealous of her work.

She knows how to cut with over 35 years experience under her belt.

I go past salons here in HU and am afraid to get any work done inside.

Most of the hairdressers have long hair, bad coloring work and are far too young to know what  taking into consideration of a persons overall style, shape of face etc. is to be able to do good work.

I notice so many haircuts on the st. that need a redo it is sad. Mostly womens cuts.

I know when I get home from a haircut, I always have to recut parts here and there, no matter how much I spend or who cuts my hair.

I wear a classic simple style too.

To me one of the saddest things was my mother prepaid for my training in beauty school.

She never was able to have me really do her hair , perm or color it.

She went bald after cancer and all I could do for her was trim the ends that grew back while she tucked it under a wig.

    I have a summer top , greenish tie dyed with a red star on it.My husband said \\I can not wear it here, brings up too many memories for people...No big deal, just one of the many I picked up on the cheap second hand in the US.Have many t shirts I never would of bought but at a buck or two each, well fitting, and slightly cool, why not?Most of my , Rock and Roll shirts were just found in good shape second hand. I never would again purchase a t shirt for $50. or more at a concert.In HS our fave second hand shop was military surplus.Found the coolest white US navy dress shirt , fit well .Wore it with my jeans and Army style desert boots.Funny back in the day it was a huge insult to tell someone their mother wore Army boots.Now everyone is wearing chunky thick boots.Not good really with their rubber souls on the bottom. No way to ground wearing rubber.I used to pick up fancy old style mens shoes, change out the strings and replace with silk or velvet ribbons.No wonder, my friends and i were called, weirdos in HS. Considered a compliment now.On the Korso the other day , 2 young men came strolling while we sat and watched people walk by.One of them was dressed to the 9s. Had on what appeared to me to be a custom made wool suit with vest.Fit him like a glove, only thing I did not like was his choice of hat wear. A black leather baseball cap, just did not go with the suit.I love fashion, can size somene up with one look, can tell within reason how much the spent on an item, well at least I used to be able to.Not so sure now when everyone dresses down so much and they sell ripped jeans for serious money.As an ex hairdresser, I used to be able to figure out within reason how much someone spent on their haircuts.Now, I am not really impressed at all by they styles most women are wearing. The mens cuts have gotten more clean cut in HU in the last few years with the razor cuts and barber shops all over.The womens styles not to have changed much since the 80,s. After the Farrah cut of the 70.s it all looks the same, nothing new.What cracks me up is here in HU I often see women with pink or purple hair but it does not match their ages or fashion style. Seems like someone talked them into something they can not carry off.My one friend is around 64 , 65 years old and still doing hair. She is from PR.She has to move from shop to shop because the other stylists are always jealous of her work.She knows how to cut with over 35 years experience under her belt.I go past salons here in HU and am afraid to get any work done inside.Most of the hairdressers have long hair, bad coloring work and are far too young to know what  taking into consideration of a persons overall style, shape of face etc. is to be able to do good work.I notice so many haircuts on the st. that need a redo it is sad. Mostly womens cuts.I know when I get home from a haircut, I always have to recut parts here and there, no matter how much I spend or who cuts my hair.I wear a classic simple style too.To me one of the saddest things was my mother prepaid for my training in beauty school.She never was able to have me really do her hair , perm or color it.She went bald after cancer and all I could do for her was trim the ends that grew back while she tucked it under a wig.        -@Marilyn Tassy

I  hadn't thought you could check out the cost of someone's haircut just by looking at them.  Useful information for spies.  But obviously if someone is like Kojak or Bruce Willis, there's no information to gather other than some vagueness about their genetics or hairdressing choices. 

I'm not bald myself in any way. In fact I have quite a lot of good hair considering my age - thinning a  bit at the sides. It's all down to my mother. She had absolutely luxuriously rampant dark black hair as did my grandmother. When I was a kid, I actually hated my own hair because it was so thick and made me hot - I always wanted it thinned out.  And my grandfather and grandmother were hairdressers so that was easily sorted. Obviously thick hair is less of a problem now I'm older.   

One notable thing is our kids have lush hair too.  Our 18 year old has really dense dark hair and a tendency to tan fast which almost gives a Mediterranean look by the end of summer - could easily pass for Spanish or Italian.  Our 14 year old, less so but again, lush head hair. 

As an aging hippy cum biker (now without a bike), it's hard to know what to do with my locks. I'd like to keep up my street cred but I need low maintenance.  Obviously during military times, it was all cut short - at least around the sides but those obligations are long gone.

The problem with those boots is that if you have large feet, it just exaggerates everything. You need tiny feet to pull that one off.  I was out in Asia and saw T-shirts with a big commie red star on it.  While it was kind of trendy, I wasn't going to wear such a thing around here back then. It was all too fresh back in the 90s but I suspect most people now are too young to remember the oppression of those periods. It's like lauding Che Guevara, it's not so clear about some of his revolutionary activities, yet he's immortalised as an icon, and they forget the negatives.   

Besides haircuts , the best way to tell something about a person is to check out their shoes.

Too trendy and they are a follower and too beat up well, either they are undercover or on the down side, or possibley just like the shoes and can not give them up.

I have spent money on shoe repairs in the past that cost as much to get fixed as if I had taken the money and jut bought another pair of shoes.

Hair, our family is a rainbow of colors of hair, blonde, red, black and your everyday browns.

My fathers hair got so strange as he aged.

He had jet black thick straight hair which he always combed and wore in a Pompadour style, like Elvis.

Has he slowly grayed, the grey only first appeared

as a white streak right in the middle. Like Cruella de Vil.

My sister has gone grey but wears her hair long.

I am still a redhead. Asked last time the hairdressers what about me going grey. She said just let it grow out because the chemicals to remove color are too harsh.

Hmm, not going to run around with a line of demarcation for months on end.

Red forever then.

    Besides haircuts , the best way to tell something about a person is to check out their shoes.
Too trendy and they are a follower and too beat up well, either they are undercover or on the down side, or possibley just like the shoes and can not give them up.
I have spent money on shoe repairs in the past that cost as much to get fixed as if I had taken the money and jut bought another pair of shoes.
Hair, our family is a rainbow of colors of hair, blonde, red, black and your everyday browns.
My fathers hair got so strange as he aged.
He had jet black thick straight hair which he always combed and wore in a Pompadour style, like Elvis.
Has he slowly grayed, the grey only first appeared
as a white streak right in the middle. Like Cruella de Vil.

My sister has gone grey but wears her hair long.
I am still a redhead. Asked last time the hairdressers what about me going grey. She said just let it grow out because the chemicals to remove color are too harsh.
Hmm, not going to run around with a line of demarcation for months on end.
Red forever then.

    -@Marilyn Tassy

Shoes are a giveaway but also watches and handbags.  I dress down on watches when I travel. I used a $30 watch if I am travelling to "dodgy" countries.  I've had a watch stolen in the past.  They took it of my suitcase in a hotel.  Luckily it was only one of my $10 watches out of Aldi.

I think overall, shoes have got a lot cheaper but they are also very badly made.  I always bought shoes with uppers in leather but I suppose many people oppose that kind of use of animal products.  Those man made materials don't always work. I was in the Caribbean and my shoes literally disintegrated in the heat and humidity.  The heels came off and I left a trail of lumps of moulded rubbery plastic behind me.  It was one of the oddest things to happen to me.   I had to get someone to take me to a shoe shop otherwise I'd have been slumming it in trainers. 

There's another grey hair streak character in fiction.  The "Mallen Streak" it was called.  I always though it was fictitious but it's a real thing obviously if your Dad had it. 

Mallen Streak, that is funny.

If you asked my mother on a bad day she might of said it was a , Dirty Rat Streak.

She almost never bad mouthed our father, she said it was her problem, not ours.

She even went to see the baby he had with his married lover, my half brother.

She was a really fair person, said the baby was darling and it was not his fault his parents were dirty rats.

I am zoning out in the evening and watching a Turkish tv series.

Takes place in the 1600s with the Sultan and his harem of beauties.

How those women did not murder each other, IDK. They probably did behind the Sultans back.

I must say, the Turks can make a soap opera, great customs too.

I am picking up a few Turkish words, might know more Turk then Hungarian!

Watches, I stuck with Seiko for years, they last and do not cost too much.

I have a nice solid gold platinum watch with a few diamonds  but bought it for a song.

A Lady Hamilton model from maybe the 1950s. A windup watch.

Checked it out online, might be worth a few hundred bucks or more but we only paid $26.

My husband used to go to police auctions in Ca. Sold many good things in lots or as with this watch, one piece at a time.

I know in one Lot he paid about $350. for a box of items.

Could not look inside till sale was done.

Found a womens gold tennis bracelet inside which his co worker bought for $1,200.

Those actions were fun, never knew what was inside the box.

Shoes, I had many pairs of ortho hand made boots made here for myself over the years.

I needed them for work with all the standing I did.

Really great support for the knees and feet.

First pair was about $50. cash, I had no Taj card then so paid full price out of pocket. With a Taj card then it would of been about $17.00 per pair.

Then depending on what sort of sole you wanted and extras on the shoe, I paid about $80. a pair, had 2 made at once.

My husband is a funny guy. I needed a black pair for work but wanted a brown pair for every use. He said no way, just get the ones for work. Unknown to me for 2 months while they were being made, he had told them to actually make both pairs for me.

He allowed me to be mad at him for 2 months then surprised me. Crazy, most guys would of spilled the beans and not had their wives upset at them.

A few years ago with a script from the ortho doc they asked for $150. a pair with Taj picking up most of the cost. They now are over $300. a pair out of pocket.

Decided to not get them, the old ones still are good. 

It is strange, the older I get the less I need.

    Mallen Streak, that is funny.If you asked my mother on a bad day she might of said it was a , Dirty Rat Streak.She almost never bad mouthed our father, she said it was her problem, not ours.She even went to see the baby he had with his married lover, my half brother.She was a really fair person, said the baby was darling and it was not his fault his parents were dirty rats.I am zoning out in the evening and watching a Turkish tv series.Takes place in the 1600s with the Sultan and his harem of beauties.How those women did not murder each other, IDK. They probably did behind the Sultans back.I must say, the Turks can make a soap opera, great customs too.I am picking up a few Turkish words, might know more Turk then Hungarian!Watches, I stuck with Seiko for years, they last and do not cost too much.I have a nice solid gold platinum watch with a few diamonds  but bought it for a song.A Lady Hamilton model from maybe the 1950s. A windup watch.Checked it out online, might be worth a few hundred bucks or more but we only paid $26.My husband used to go to police auctions in Ca. Sold many good things in lots or as with this watch, one piece at a time.I know in one Lot he paid about $350. for a box of items.Could not look inside till sale was done.Found a womens gold tennis bracelet inside which his co worker bought for $1,200.Those actions were fun, never knew what was inside the box.Shoes, I had many pairs of ortho hand made boots made here for myself over the years.I needed them for work with all the standing I did.Really great support for the knees and feet.First pair was about $50. cash, I had no Taj card then so paid full price out of pocket. With a Taj card then it would of been about $17.00 per pair.Then depending on what sort of sole you wanted and extras on the shoe, I paid about $80. a pair, had 2 made at once.My husband is a funny guy. I needed a black pair for work but wanted a brown pair for every use. He said no way, just get the ones for work. Unknown to me for 2 months while they were being made, he had told them to actually make both pairs for me.He allowed me to be mad at him for 2 months then surprised me. Crazy, most guys would of spilled the beans and not had their wives upset at them.A few years ago with a script from the ortho doc they asked for $150. a pair with Taj picking up most of the cost. They now are over $300. a pair out of pocket. Decided to not get them, the old ones still are good.  It is strange, the older I get the less I need.         -@Marilyn Tassy

Yes, the Mallen Streak was "invented" by Catherine Cookson, who wrote romantic novels by the dozen.  I'd really call them semi-trash and these days they could have been written by a computer.  I wouldn't have read any of those books but some people do.   They even made TV shows of them.  Hard to believe.  I think the Turkish show would be a bit trashy like that. I think I've heard about that one.  All raised eyebrows and dramatic turns.

I've inherited about 8 watches from my parents.  All of them were run down and not working. I changed the batteries and all of them are working bar two.  Some of them are fantastic time keepers.   All of them are cheap watches. I bought the batteries online.  So many watches and most of them taking different size batteries.  That's crazy stuff.   Seems like there's no standard for watch batteries.  Anyways, doing it yourself is really cheap, less than $1 a battery change and the batteries last years.

I've got inserts in my shoes because of my flat feet. I went to some place in Budapest and they made them for me but they are rubbish really. I managed to get some different inserts from the UK after my chiropractor told me where to get them.  They weren't cheap either and I'm a bit 50-50 if they really do anything for my fallen arches.  I did think having some shoes made but the Docs always said get some inserts.  I am thinking physio might help more.

Meanwhile life gets complicated. My MIL's dementia has taken a turn for the worse and is now behaving extremely oddly - she chucked all her clothes out the window the other day at 2am after calling my BIL.   She also couldn't find the key to get out and was planning to go out the same window.  If she went out in the garden it's a certainty she'll get lost out there as it's quite big and worse, it was cold.  She could have simply frozen to death as she wouldn't recognise how to get back in.  She always believes she's at the wrong house now and she should be at a relatives house 100m away.

In a way, it's got a kind of humorous aspect to it and hard to keep a straight face but it's so bonkers, it's definitely not a laughing matter a the end of the day. We're going over there this morning to do some gardening and we'll see what she's been up to during the night.  We definitely have to look at getting surveillance cameras plugged in.  Would save us a lot of concern.

That dementia is a bit scary sounding.

Seems things are getting worst quickly.

So sorry, what a headache and a concern.

I think we all are not the same sharp tools we used to be.

This morning my husband said that if he was his 30 year old self now, he would not like the silly old man he is now.

Not true but I understand what he means.

He still can out think most people so there is that.

Me, I wonder, the other day I asked him if he wanted eggs with his eggs? Confuse even myself!

I am not sure how my father died. The story was he was not happy living in Indiana, moved from S. Ca.

His second wife, the American/Hungarian women had her own children in that state so they moved there.

Story was he was starting dementia but not clear really. He was driving his car and got hit by a city bus.

His stupid wife did not take him to get checked out and he had some internal bleeding , another version was his heart was bad?

IDK. My eldest sister went there to see him in the hospital and went to his funeral.

His wife got allot of money from a law suit and was bragging about her holidays in Hawaii etc.

She also, going back to watches... Did not follow my father wishes and give my brother his nice watch and his trade mark ring. She gave them to her own sons.

Lost all respect for her after that. Everyone knew he wanted my brother to have those 2 things that meant allot to him. Dad was only 67, so I tend to think his wife was at fault for not taking him for a health check after his crash.

I make my husband spring to take my Seiko to the watchmaker to change the battery. I had a nice Seiko a few years ago and somehow he messed up the watch while trying to change the battery.

My cheaper watches I let him change out.

I was so dumb, I got home from night shift at work and somehow was not thinking clear. I dropped one of my Seikos , my first one, over 25 years old at the time, right on the hard ground. Broke something. Watchmaker said it needed a major repair so I just let him have the watch and bought another one.

Mad at myself though, once I buy something I like, I tend to keep it forever.

My sister worked in the office of Seiko in downtown LA but never bought one of their watches. Even with her employee discount. Strange to me, thinking back, she never wore a watch.

Arch supports are the way to go really. Custom shoes are nice but you can not change out the arch supports in them for everyday use in another pair of shoes.

I wear arch supports even in my sports shoes.

We all had those computer custom made arch supports made here years ago in Hungary. They really were crappy, never really used them.

Yes, those Turkish shows tend to be overly dramatic but they are easy watching .Lots of back stabbing going on and secret plans.. Simple show for the simple minded!!

I got tired of the news, have not seen any for over a week.

Husband told me France wants NATO to go into Ukraine... why oh why?

Who wants to die over there for nada, for some land?

France, I hate to say it has a bad rep in wars from what I have read. They always give up and leave others holding the bag. Vietnam comes to mind and WW11. Maybe I am wrong ,hate to dis people who put their lives on the line.

    That dementia is a bit scary sounding.Seems things are getting worst quickly.So sorry, what a headache and a concern.I think we all are not the same sharp tools we used to be.This morning my husband said that if he was his 30 year old self now, he would not like the silly old man he is now.Not true but I understand what he means.He still can out think most people so there is that.Me, I wonder, the other day I asked him if he wanted eggs with his eggs? Confuse even myself!I am not sure how my father died. The story was he was not happy living in Indiana, moved from S. Ca.His second wife, the American/Hungarian women had her own children in that state so they moved there.Story was he was starting dementia but not clear really. He was driving his car and got hit by a city bus.His stupid wife did not take him to get checked out and he had some internal bleeding , another version was his heart was bad?IDK. My eldest sister went there to see him in the hospital and went to his funeral.His wife got allot of money from a law suit and was bragging about her holidays in Hawaii etc.She also, going back to watches... Did not follow my father wishes and give my brother his nice watch and his trade mark ring. She gave them to her own sons. Lost all respect for her after that. Everyone knew he wanted my brother to have those 2 things that meant allot to him. Dad was only 67, so I tend to think his wife was at fault for not taking him for a health check after his crash.I make my husband spring to take my Seiko to the watchmaker to change the battery. I had a nice Seiko a few years ago and somehow he messed up the watch while trying to change the battery.My cheaper watches I let him change out.I was so dumb, I got home from night shift at work and somehow was not thinking clear. I dropped one of my Seikos , my first one, over 25 years old at the time, right on the hard ground. Broke something. Watchmaker said it needed a major repair so I just let him have the watch and bought another one.Mad at myself though, once I buy something I like, I tend to keep it forever. My sister worked in the office of Seiko in downtown LA but never bought one of their watches. Even with her employee discount. Strange to me, thinking back, she never wore a watch.Arch supports are the way to go really. Custom shoes are nice but you can not change out the arch supports in them for everyday use in another pair of shoes.I wear arch supports even in my sports shoes.We all had those computer custom made arch supports made here years ago in Hungary. They really were crappy, never really used them.Yes, those Turkish shows tend to be overly dramatic but they are easy watching .Lots of back stabbing going on and secret plans.. Simple show for the simple minded!!I got tired of the news, have not seen any for over a week.Husband told me France wants NATO to go into Ukraine... why oh why?Who wants to die over there for nada, for some land?France, I hate to say it has a bad rep in wars from what I have read. They always give up and leave others holding the bag. Vietnam comes to mind and WW11. Maybe I am wrong ,hate to dis people who put their lives on the line.        -@Marilyn Tassy

Dementia is really like death by a thousand cuts.  Every step is a bit less of that person.  It seems like there are good days and bad days but the trajectory is only one way and that's down.   Your hubby as a young man should listen to himself as a older person.  If only we had that luxury of being able to communicate with the past and let our previous selves know how to avoid making mistakes.

There's a TV show on Netflix called Travelers about people from the future being sent back in time to right some wrongs and change the future dystopia but it's 100s of years back, so they never meet themselves.   I really liked that show but as is typical of shows liked by audiences, it got cancelled by Netflix after a few seasons.

Your Dad's story reminds me of my FIL.  He died of an embolism. He refused to go to hospital for a week despite pain etc.  If he'd gone immediately, they would have used clot busting drugs and he'd still be here.  He had a fear of hospitals and doctors. So much so it seems death was preferable.

I did read about Macron's idea but I think he was thinking of military advisors on the ground in Kyiv.  I think there are plenty of NATO advisors there already operating covertly or they are pretending to be freelancing themselves into international legions.   They just aren't obviously on the front lines.  Unfortunately, it seems to me that it's inevitable there's going to be a war while Putin is still in power. 

The Slovak PM and Hungarian OV are 5th columnists and shills for Putin.  People died at that concert yesterday and Putin hasn't even appeared on TV but that's typical Soviet thinking, everyone must sacrifice themselves for the fatherland, every one is expendable except those in power.  Anyway, that's a long Stalinist story.   What I'd like to see is a ramp up of NATO country expenditure in defence.  They are even talking of conscription. 

I keep wondering about Trump.  He's anti-NATO but if he could get leaving past Congress/Senate (which he'd have to do), the USA would find itself very alone and isolated. All the US bases would close and intelligence sharing would stop, defence spending on US weapons and systems would drop and cooperation would stall.

Anyway, Trump is going to be close to bankrupt.  His supporters will give him money via his public offering of his Facebook alternative called Truth Social.  For a project, I've done some studies on this method of raising money and whoever buys shares is probably going to lose all of it.  Trump is a gift that keeps on giving.  So much schadenfreude to enjoy with that guy.