Absolutely Anything Else

Where in the U.S. did you have bad experiences regarding Asians?  I lived in New York City, Florida, Texas, and California and have never seen people having problems with Asians.  Then again, I've never been friendly with people who discriminate...

No. I never had trouble with Asian people. It is the opposite. My wife is Asian and she really likes Hungary. We have been to Hungary about 4 times together and I have been there about 8 times, including visiting relatives. I have been to Asian countries many times too. What I mean is that Hungarians don't like migrants in general but they don't seem to mind East Asians like Korean, Japanese or Chinese people. My wife has never felt discrimination in the US or in Europe. I love Asian countries and lived there in the past. No problems at all. But I love being in Hungary and always felt welcome and treated very well. I do always try to converse in Hungarian, so people are really kind and helpful from what I have experienced.

People who are part, or half, Asian and the other half European are Eurasian. My son is that and he Is an Attractive Kid. I Have Seen Eurasians In Hungary Too. Part Chinese or Vietnamese.

I am assuming that when speaking about "Freedom of Speech" you are talking about the Constitution of the United States of America...  According to that document, you cannot use symbols to incite violence.  You can display them in your private space, as it is your freedom to do so, but not publicly. 

"Freedom" is a complex thing.  You can be free to do anything, so long as you are not impeding on someone else's freedom.  I guess each society has their rules regarding what is tolerated by those in power, but so far, none has come-up with a better system than what the U.S. Constitution provides.  Of course, there is no perfect society, so that is why The Cycle of Democracy has never failed to kick-in, almost like clockworks. 

For those not familiar with Alexander Tyler's theory:

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.” - here are the cycles as observed by Tyler:

“The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about  200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

Tyler goes on:   "The people flatter themselves that they have the sovereign power. These are, in fact, words without meaning. It is true they elected governors; but how are these elections brought about? In every instance of election by the mass of a people—through the influence of those governors themselves, and by means the most opposite to a free and disinterested choice, by the basest corruption and bribery. But those governors once selected, where is the boasted freedom of the people? They must submit to their rule and control, with the same abandonment of their natural liberty, the freedom of their will, and the command of their actions, as if they were under the rule of a monarch"

Chikagoan wrote:

Along these lines, Why are there so many Chinese people, and Asians in general, in Hungary? I read that there are more than 30,000 Chinese people in Budapest alone. It is interesting given the general dislike of migrants and immigrants that Hungarians and the government seem to have, that so many Asian people have come to live there. I noticed Chinese form part of the cast of contemporary Hungarian films.

I remember very clearly that in the 1990s, the Hungarian government invited the Chinese people in - they provided a quick route to setting up here and many took the option.   There are others who are posted here by their employers.  Obviously longer term people have kids and they become Hungarian-ised.   There are some people here who arrived during the Communist time - socialist solidarity.  Usually they came to study or cultural exchange. It's different to my own country where the majority of ethnic Chinese were from Hong Kong and spoke English as well as their own language.    The Chinese here are mainland.  But anyway these guys are industrious, add value and are very personable.   

Surely we should welcome diversity - and that includes all peoples.   The USA is based on immigration ...huddled masses etc. and they've done pretty well out of it over the years.

Panni36 wrote:

Indeed, Hungarians were more than happy to cooperate with the Nazi's during WWII.  They used to give-up their neighbor's if they were Jews, to be sent to concentration camps.  Their reward was to raid the homes and steel the belongings of the family that was sent to the gas chambers...   
There are many Hungarians that still think that "Hitler did not do a good enough job to kill more Jews".  I grew-up with that mentality around me.  As a child, not knowing better, I used to laugh with them over the cruel and discriminating jokes. 
Even in modern, post-Communist times, there were government policies that were designed to get rid of Jews, and many were leaving the country...    Pretty stupid, as Jews are hard working; disciplined and very smart people that assimilate well and benefit the communities they live in.

So, one of the largest jewish population in Europe is the result of systematic, government sanctioned, hate?

fluffy2560 wrote:

Surely we should welcome diversity - and that includes all peoples.   The USA is based on immigration ...huddled masses etc. and they've done pretty well out of it over the years.

The chineese rigorously assimilate everybody. China exists since the dawn of time. Surely they are doing something right.

Comparing any country on the planet to an entity that existed for a mere 300 years is a stupid comparison. In historical perspective, this past 100 years of prosperity is not a well-founded case for arguments. The Roman empire existed in a state of relative luxury for hundreds of years.

Surely, they must have done something right with slavery...

Wow, we are getting into some dangerous territory speaking about Slavery.
Suppose it depends on which side of the whip you were on.
I know traditionally my mom's people the Mohawks had slaves BUT in time they released them and adopted them into their tribe.
Usually these were people captured in wars.
Personally I have never wanted or felt the need to even hire a maid, can't stand having that sort of power over anyone.

Rawlee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Surely we should welcome diversity - and that includes all peoples.   The USA is based on immigration ...huddled masses etc. and they've done pretty well out of it over the years.

The chineese rigorously assimilate everybody. China exists since the dawn of time. Surely they are doing something right.

Comparing any country on the planet to an entity that existed for a mere 300 years is a stupid comparison. In historical perspective, this past 100 years of prosperity is not a well-founded case for arguments. The Roman empire existed in a state of relative luxury for hundreds of years.

Surely, they must have done something right with slavery...

Didn't you learn anything?  Or are you trolling (again)?

And do you know anything about the Borg?

Chinese here are being assimilated into Hungary not the other way. 

The number of generations that pass in 300 or even 100 years is plenty enough for assimilation.

Rawlee wrote:

....So, one of the largest jewish population in Europe is the result of systematic, government sanctioned, hate?

You are so far off track. 

Just down the road from here is the statue of Raoul Wallenberg.

Please read your history on what went on here during WW2 and the Jewish population.

Rawlee wrote:

Panni36 wrote:

Indeed, Hungarians were more than happy to cooperate with the Nazi's during WWII.  They used to give-up their neighbor's if they were Jews, to be sent to concentration camps.  Their reward was to raid the homes and steel the belongings of the family that was sent to the gas chambers...   
There are many Hungarians that still think that "Hitler did not do a good enough job to kill more Jews".  I grew-up with that mentality around me.  As a child, not knowing better, I used to laugh with them over the cruel and discriminating jokes. 
Even in modern, post-Communist times, there were government policies that were designed to get rid of Jews, and many were leaving the country...    Pretty stupid, as Jews are hard working; disciplined and very smart people that assimilate well and benefit the communities they live in.

So, one of the largest jewish population in Europe is the result of systematic, government sanctioned, hate?

==============================================

Dear Rawlee,

Hungarian Anti-Semitism is well documented not only during WWII, but up to current times. 

I am not here to argue with you...  Look at the data, and then draw your own conclusions! 

In case you could not find it yourself, the following might help you catch-up on some historical facts. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Hungary having one of the largest Jewish populations in Europe
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jewish population in Europe 2015:

France:  467,500 (up from 225,000 in 1933)
England: 290,000 (about the same - 300,000 in 1933)
Germany: 117,500 (down from 565,000 in 1933)
Hungary: 47,700 (down from 445,000 in 1933) ======== 88% DROP FROM 1933!!!!!

REFERENCE:  http://i.imgur.com/bry1c8w.jpg


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Questioning "systematic, government sanctioned hate" in recent history in Hungary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...Hungary is the most anti-Semitic country in Eastern Europe, with 41% of the population harboring antisemitic views. Unlike most of Europe, the level of antisemitism in Hungary is highest among the young, at the rate of 50% among adults under the age of 35." - Wikipedia

REFERENCE:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemit … ry_Hungary


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: History of the Jews in Hungary - including during WWII
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Starting in 1938, Hungary under Miklós Horthy passed a series of anti-Jewish measures in emulation of Germany's Nürnberg Laws. The vast majority of Jews who were deported were massacred in Kameniec-Podolsk (Kamianets-Podilskyi). In the massacres of Újvidék (Novi Sad) and villages nearby, 2,550–2,850 Serbs, 700–1,250 Jews and 60–130 others were murdered by the Hungarian Army and "Csendőrség" (Gendarmerie) in January 1942. A Jew living in the Hungarian countryside in March 1944 had a less than 10% chance of surviving the following 12 months." – Wikipedia

REFERENCE:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o … in_Hungary


You are most welcome!

Livia

Hopefully anti semitism is fading in Hungary. Even Jobbik sent out Hannukah greetings last year. None the less, diversity is not always easy or painless. It depends on the people involved. In South Korea for example, when some Syrians flew to Seoul to claim refugee status, the Korean officials wouldn't let them leave the airport for months and gave them  hotdogs to eat.
Koreans for the most part do not like or want diversity.
I believe that it is up to the people of a given country to decide whom they should admit as residents to their country, even if that view may clash with the sensibilities of the EU or NGOs.
As one Hungarian told me in Keszthely 18 months ago: "you don't let just anyone into your house," when referring to the migrant issue.
His viewpoint on his own country appears to be shared by most Hungarians.

Panni36 wrote:

....

Hungarian Anti-Semitism is well documented not only during WWII, but up to current times. 

I am not here to argue with you...  Look at the data, and then draw your own conclusions! 

In case you could not find it yourself, the following might help you catch-up on some historical facts.

Totally agree.  Excellent posting!   

I'm afraid some of our friends here need to check their history.

Chikagoan wrote:

....Koreans for the most part do not like or want diversity.
I believe that it is up to the people of a given country to decide whom they should admit as residents to their country, even if that view may clash with the sensibilities of the EU or NGOs.
As one Hungarian told me in Keszthely 18 months ago: "you don't let just anyone into your house," when referring to the migrant issue.
His viewpoint on his own country appears to be shared by most Hungarians.

Yes, indeed, people here are xenophobes and don't want diversity but they'll get it in the end anyway.

It's inevitable.   Internet, cheap air travel, TV, diaspora, even the EU itself etc. 

It's everywhere.  It's not even a trickle, it's a flood. 

And I think we're full circle here on 1956, OV and Trump even.

Luckily some people had the generosity to let people into their houses.

History is full of horrors, people basically are terrible to each other.
Ego, greed and wanting to get ahead of the next guy is the major problem.
We haven't gotten it right yet.

Yesterday I went into the hospital to get my MRI test results looked at by my surgeon.
Looks like I'm getting surgery for my Christmas present...
Oh, well I asked for it, just want to get fixed and heal up before summer, be done with it.
We couldn't get off the lift on our floor because of a mix up with a gurney and the guy blocking our way off, so we went down first to the bottom floor where they take in emergency patients.
That wore me out, seeing stuff I would rather of not seen.
We waited a long 5 min.s for the lift to return for us and had to wait near the doorway where they had the huge MRI machine.
Much larger then the one they used in the clinic area for me.
Some poor guy was wheeled out with a huge baseball size lump on his forehead, red face and in total confusion, he was trying to get up off the gurney, head trauma.
Just terrible stuff.
I wonder sometimes how anyone can enter the medical field, takes a special sort of person I think.
My father was planning on continuing his medical training after WW11 where he served as a US Army medic in the S. Pacific.
Not sure what he saw but he wouldn't even touch our scrapped knees growing up. Not everyone can handle seeing people in pain.
All good, I am happy as a clam because my doc said I don't even have to spend the night in hospital, they will send me home the same day!!!
Little miracles in life.
I do have to pay out of pocket though to the anesthesiologist.
Not much around 15,000F. Wonder why that is though with the national health?
I am guessing just like when I had my knee surgery here in HU. I had met my knock out person in the OR and had no money on me for tipping. Thought i would met him before the surgery and my husband could take care of the tip or after surgery. Never saw him again and felt a bit bad about stiffing him.
Guess they want to make sure they get something for their time so have you pay out of pocket to be put out. Just guessing.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Panni36 wrote:

....

Hungarian Anti-Semitism is well documented not only during WWII, but up to current times. 

I am not here to argue with you...  Look at the data, and then draw your own conclusions! 

In case you could not find it yourself, the following might help you catch-up on some historical facts.

Totally agree.  Excellent posting!   

I'm afraid some of our friends here need to check their history.

Frankly, the ignorance is astounding!  I am surprised that "our friend" did not point out my typo of "steeling" instead of "stealing"...  I don't think there is anything else that could be argued.  Seems to be a younger person who likes to pick apart other postings based on some theoretical thoughts that pop into his/her head without any fact checking...  Hopefully she/he will gain some wisdom and educate himself/herself before making frivolous statements exposing shallowness.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....
I do have to pay out of pocket though to the anesthesiologist.
Not much around 15,000F. Wonder why that is though with the national health?
I am guessing just like when I had my knee surgery here in HU. I had met my knock out person in the OR and had no money on me for tipping. Thought i would met him before the surgery and my husband could take care of the tip or after surgery. Never saw him again and felt a bit bad about stiffing him.
Guess they want to make sure they get something for their time so have you pay out of pocket to be put out. Just guessing.

Did you really stiff him?   Surely it's just an extra thing but they shouldn't expect more or do a less of  a job on you.  Why do you have to pay for the anaesthesia?  Is it actually an option?   Acupuncture or meditation alternatives?

(I should say that I'm the wrong side of 55 and  I've never actually been in a hospital for surgery under a general anaesthetic so I don't know what goes on).

Didn't stiff anyone but sadly the anesthesiologist. all by mistake, had money for him but wasn't about to carry it on my nude body like my husband di when he had hernia surgery here. Thought I'd see him again.
Yes, the make you go into surgery in the raw here, no nice little gowns with the back open.
I'll have to tone up pre surgery because of my vanity!
I should ask how much extra to make sure I wake up!!
I'll have to figure out how much tips will be enough for everyone, maybe somewhere in total of say $400. between everyone for a one to two hour party?

Panni36 wrote:

....Frankly, the ignorance is astounding!  I am surprised that "our friend" did not point out my typo of "steeling" instead of "stealing"...  I don't think there is anything else that could be argued.  Seems to be a younger person who likes to pick apart other postings based on some theoretical thoughts that pop into his/her head without any fact checking...  Hopefully she/he will gain some wisdom and educate himself/herself before making frivolous statements exposing shallowness.

You're not the first person to say that.  Hard to say if it's trolling or plain ignorance or influence of propaganda by certain politicians/parties. 

There is an amazing amount of selective thinking  here and a lot of people suffering from confirmation bias. 

I've had conversations here where people turn out to be utterly uninformed that Stalin was in a pact with Hitler to divide up Eastern Europe. That was the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Both Stalin and Hitler were utterly duplicitous. But then again, the victors (i.e. Russia and Stalin here) will always rewrite the history. I don't think Stalin would ever have been criticised in HU history lessons post WW2.  And as you said, people seem to forget what Hitler and his followers did hereabouts as well.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Didn't stiff anyone but sadly the anesthesiologist. all by mistake, had money for him but wasn't about to carry it on my nude body like my husband di when he had hernia surgery here. Thought I'd see him again.
Yes, the make you go into surgery in the raw here, no nice little gowns with the back open.
I'll have to tone up pre surgery because of my vanity!
I should ask how much extra to make sure I wake up!!
I'll have to figure out how much tips will be enough for everyone, maybe somewhere in total of say $400. between everyone for a one to two hour party?

Oh, my...  This reminds me when I was a kid in Budapest...  Patients had to "tip" doctors to get good service.  Those who had no money, would bring gifts.  There was always someone in the waiting room with some pastry or something.  When I was 15 I had a tooth pulled.  We had no money, so I did not get anesthesia.  They poked me with a needle, but then immediately without waiting for the "poke" to take effect, two assistants held me down and the dentist pulled out my tooth.  I screamed.  It was not unusual to hear screams coming out of the dentist's office back then...  I did not expect that the "tipping" was still a thing in Hungary...  Ay! 

No robes to go into surgery?  Ouch!  I guess 40 plus years in the U.S.A. can spoil you...

fluffy2560 wrote:

but I would say you should stop quoting from what you Google'd as not everything out there is actually true.

This is the only response I'm willing write to all this nonsense you guys threw at me.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Panni36 wrote:

....Frankly, the ignorance is astounding!  I am surprised that "our friend" did not point out my typo of "steeling" instead of "stealing"...  I don't think there is anything else that could be argued.  Seems to be a younger person who likes to pick apart other postings based on some theoretical thoughts that pop into his/her head without any fact checking...  Hopefully she/he will gain some wisdom and educate himself/herself before making frivolous statements exposing shallowness.

You're not the first person to say that.  Hard to say if it's trolling or plain ignorance or influence of propaganda by certain politicians/parties. 

There is an amazing amount of selective thinking  here and a lot of people suffering from confirmation bias. 

I've had conversations here where people turn out to be utterly uninformed that Stalin was in a pact with Hitler to divide up Eastern Europe. That was the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Both Stalin and Hitler were utterly duplicitous. But then again, the victors (i.e. Russia and Stalin here) will always rewrite the history. I don't think Stalin would ever have been criticised in HU history lessons post WW2.  And as you said, people seem to forget what Hitler and his followers did hereabouts as well.

I don't know how, but I knew about that...  Also, that at the end Hitler went back on the promise of non-aggression against the Russians anyway and attacked, which contributed to his downfall.  Russian winters can be devastating, as the Germans found out...
It is really scary how history is rewritten, I'm afraid not only in Hungary, but everywhere, including in the Land of the Free, which is a huge disappointment to me!
I am in Fiji now, and just had a discussion about the Holocaust with a young and intelligent woman just finishing accounting school. She had no idea what it was - they don't teach it in the schools here.  When she saw the pictures on the Internet for the first time, she could not believe the horror that she never knew existed...  I was stunned!

fluffy2560 wrote:

Chikagoan wrote:

....Koreans for the most part do not like or want diversity.
I believe that it is up to the people of a given country to decide whom they should admit as residents to their country, even if that view may clash with the sensibilities of the EU or NGOs.
As one Hungarian told me in Keszthely 18 months ago: "you don't let just anyone into your house," when referring to the migrant issue.
His viewpoint on his own country appears to be shared by most Hungarians.

Yes, indeed, people here are xenophobes and don't want diversity but they'll get it in the end anyway.

It's inevitable.   Internet, cheap air travel, TV, diaspora, even the EU itself etc. 

It's everywhere.  It's not even a trickle, it's a flood. 

And I think we're full circle here on 1956, OV and Trump even.

Luckily some people had the generosity to let people into their houses.

Yes, the Germans let everyone in out of guilt over their historical conduct. Understandable. I've  had conversations with Germans regarding this topic at length.

But I do not think Korea will change and allow unwanted and illegal migrants into their country wholesale. I have had conversations with them regarding this topic and I don't think it will happen. They have no guilt.

Similarly, Hungarians don't either.

I have to honestly say that mass migration does not make the lives of the original inhabitants better. I would say from my observations in Western Europe in places like Brussels and Nimes, that it tends to degrade living conditions for everyone.

Rawlee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

but I would say you should stop quoting from what you Google'd as not everything out there is actually true.

This is the only response I'm willing write to all this nonsense you guys threw at me.

There really is not much else to say; is there? 

May I suggest that instead of sulking, read the links I sent (I would bet that you did not read them, thinking "I don't have to do that to form an opinion")... 

Go outside of your comfort zone, and learn something that is not in line with the ideology you favor. 

Try to understand other points of view.  Without the willingness to do that; you will always lose arguments.  I learned that the hard way. 

I was 24 and was put in my place when I was arguing without actually being able to make a point.  It was a similarly embarrassing situation that you just put yourself into.  Let's face it; if you had an argument; you would make it.  You were wrong on your data, and wrong on your information, yet insisted on being belligerent.  Not a good combination.

If you really want to be able to hold your own, you need to step back and educate yourself.  Not talking about being led by your nose by some professor who uses teaching as a license to manipulate young people's minds.  I am talking about you reading varying opinions on a subject you wish to discuss, to understand all sides of the argument! 

Don't get mad; get even!  Sharpen your skills, and learn how to make your point using FACTS!   

Good luck!

Chikagoan wrote:

I have to honestly say that mass migration does not make the lives of the original inhabitants better.

Oh, the irony.

Yes, the irony.

Panni36 wrote:

Rawlee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

but I would say you should stop quoting from what you Google'd as not everything out there is actually true.

This is the only response I'm willing write to all this nonsense you guys threw at me.

There really is not much else to say; is there? 
...

Don't get mad; get even!  Sharpen your skills, and learn how to make your point using FACTS!

It's not worth feeding the troll.  Heaven forbid facts work their way into the troll's mindset.

I still don't get how being a troll is remotely pleasurable. I expect trolls get kicks out of watching YouTube videos of people falling of bikes injuring themselves.  Kind of voyeurism or even sadism.

Quite a sad existence really.

fluffy2560 wrote:

It's not worth feeding the troll.  Heaven forbid facts work their way into the troll's mindset.

Absolutely correct. Yet, in a way, extremely saddening for being so true. 

But her post was nice. Sweet. Positive. And meant well. So I gave it a thumbs up. We must support the good. Else the trolls win. Call me an optimist.

klsallee wrote:

Chikagoan wrote:

I have to honestly say that mass migration does not make the lives of the original inhabitants better.

Oh, the irony.

Yes, the irony.

Oh Oh, here we go again...........

The irony of the Hungarian cowboys, settlers, prospectors and cavalry that won the West and robbed the Native Americans and now in retaliation are being justifiably invaded by Africans and Middle Easterners.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

It's not worth feeding the troll.  Heaven forbid facts work their way into the troll's mindset.

Absolutely correct. Yet, in a way, extremely saddening for being so true. 

But her post was nice. Sweet. Positive. And meant well. So I gave it a thumbs up. We must support the good. Else the trolls win. Call me an optimist.

Yes, throughly appreciated Livia's post there.  Unfortunately wasted on the perp. 

In the intervening minutes between posts here, I was doing some plumbing, entertaining the kids and searching for how trolls get satisfaction but I was disappointed. Wasn't too much info available in the very few minutes I looked.   I'm quite interested in the pathology.   At the moment, I cannot see the upside although Wiki says it's like clowns with makeup.  But like trolls, they never seemed that funny to me.

One of the things I love about this board is how the non-Hungarian expats correct and reprove the poor Hungarians who are so woefully ignorant and sadly so very politically incorrect. Thank you guys for coming to Hungary and being available to tell the foolish Hungarians how wrong they are about their own country and the world in general.

Chikagoan wrote:

One of the things I love about this board is how the non-Hungarian expats correct and reprove the poor Hungarians who are so woefully ignorant and sadly so very politically incorrect. Thank you guys for coming to Hungary and being available to tell the foolish Hungarians how wrong they are about their own country and the world in general.

Haha! Nice!   

It's rich pickings here the same as Trump generates so much noise from people. 

In any case,  Hungary and Hungarians are fair game just the same as everyone else.

I've also been defending Mrs Merkel against Mrs Fluffy this week. 

Nothing if not lively.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Chikagoan wrote:

One of the things I love about this board is how the non-Hungarian expats correct and reprove the poor Hungarians who are so woefully ignorant and sadly so very politically incorrect. Thank you guys for coming to Hungary and being available to tell the foolish Hungarians how wrong they are about their own country and the world in general.

Haha! Nice!   

It's rich pickings here the same as Trump generates so much noise from people. 

In any case,  Hungary and Hungarians are fair game just the same as everyone else.

I've also been defending Mrs Merkel against Mrs Fluffy this week. 

Nothing if not lively.

Like I said Üdvözöljük Magyarországon, we need you guys!

Interesting about  Hungarians and others ripping off the native Americans, true BUT in revenge my uncle who was 3/4th Mohawk ( my mom's old half bro) married a full blooded Hungarian women.
They got along perfectly and married and were happy until his death.
Just saying, people can work stuff out if they want to.
I have read the natives had just underwent a huge plague and die off of people before the "settlers" "Invaded" their lands. If their population had not been so low at that time, I think history would of been written differently. I'm very happy and slightly proud to have some native DNA in me. Got high fashion cheek bones that money just can't buy!
My German grandfather ( born in the US in 1882) married my grandma, a "half-breed.
Guess those exoctic women were exciting, I know my son will only go out with foreign women, married 2 foreign women and as far as I know never dated seriously or more then once a American lady although he is American. He says Americans are boring and spoiled and only after money and guys with new cars... I never was that way but then again, I am "different". Loved my husband's accent and attitude the second I met him.
Yes, we still should tip doctors here in Hungary, when you come back to live you will see that hasn't changed.
My FIL in HU once didn't tip his dentist. The next visit the same dentist pulled out the wrong tooth!
My husband has a fear of dentists. In Budapest when he was 9 years old the school took all the children in for a dentist visit. The insane dentist worked on 7 of his teeth all at once! What sort of person would do that to a little child? Sick!
After that he only went into the emergency clinic at night to get his teeth pulled instead of getting fillings. Now he hardly has any of his own teeth left!
No option, was told by my doc the cost to go under for surgery will be 15,000, that's not including the tip for that one doc alone.
All good though at least I will get my elective surgery, maybe that's why they will charge me, not a emergency operation, my choice, I asked for it to get better.
I am willing to pay within reason all costs if it balances out to help someone who can't tip or pay.
I'm not in the poor house yet... Just have to hope we don't need allot of surgery in the future because I will go broke at some point!
The good news is my doctor doesn't seem to give me "special treatment" for tipping. I am sitting in the dark, dingy, depressing hallway waiting 2 to 3 hours to get in just like anyone else.
The fam doc my husband always tips but still some people just walk in ahead of him, some people are very sneaky and just jump in front of everyone who has been waiting their turn.
I think they should have a number system to prevent these rude people from line hopping.

Panni36 wrote:

May I suggest that instead of sulking, read the links I sent (I would bet that you did not read them, thinking "I don't have to do that to form an opinion")... 

Go outside of your comfort zone, and learn something that is not in line with the ideology you favor. 

Try to understand other points of view.  Without the willingness to do that; you will always lose arguments.  I learned that the hard way. 

I was 24 and was put in my place when I was arguing without actually being able to make a point.  It was a similarly embarrassing situation that you just put yourself into.  Let's face it; if you had an argument; you would make it.  You were wrong on your data, and wrong on your information, yet insisted on being belligerent.  Not a good combination.

If you really want to be able to hold your own, you need to step back and educate yourself.  Not talking about being led by your nose by some professor who uses teaching as a license to manipulate young people's minds.  I am talking about you reading varying opinions on a subject you wish to discuss, to understand all sides of the argument! 

Don't get mad; get even!  Sharpen your skills, and learn how to make your point using FACTS!   

Good luck!

Just a few pages back I did a similar argument, backed by articles and studies, yet the counter-argumens were anecdotal, and since then I'm a troll. Its not worth replying , if only I have to be open minded.

Read the thread. See the posts, and realize who is the one represending an ideology. I'm not the one claiming "diversity is inevitable", or that "I'm infallible". For example, your map is incorrect. For France, it only contains the numbers for the continent, yet for Hungary, includes all the territorries currently outside of Hungary. Fact checking? So yes, I have checked your links. They do not worth the time to dispute.

The almighty immigrants always know better, because they've been to dozens of countries. Yet they refused to integrate, assimilate, and then complain the host country is different, slow, unwilling, scams them...and so on. The only problem I see here is the total lack of respect for the host nations,  whichever is that. If 70% of the people voted in a goverment, then 70% of the country is racist dumb redneck, because it is impossible the immigrant is incorrect.

Like the argument that language is not crucial to culture or nation...liberal BS.

I think it is very important to try to learn any native language once you move to a new country.
I really tried to learn Hungarian but got shut down so many times I sort of put it off.
I know enough to get through the day without bothering anyone. Can read the labels on foods and some basic things like knowing enough to know I'll never pick it up well enough to make a conversation with anyone in Hungarian.
I am also getting older and my English is not what it used to be either.
I have no plans on working in Hungary or seeking any thing other then a peaceful quiet life with my HU husband.
I do know if anything should happen to him I wouldn't want to stay in Hungary.
It would be just too sad to live here without him.
People in our building like me and  don't make a deal out of me being the only American  in the house. Because we mind our own business and always say hello to our neighbors, just act with manners and mind our selves.
If however I was younger and looking to work here I would take the time to attend a language class at the min.
It's respect for the people who live here.
Unless one wants to live in a bubble and only hang out with other ex-pats then learning the native language is a must.
I do just about everything like a native does, cook, shop, not shout out in public or bother anyone with chit-chat that is too personal etc.
I am personal on this site but basically we keep to ourselves, which is fine.
At least trying to learn the ways of the locals shows respect for their culture.
My 2 grandfather's both born in the US only learned English as a second language. They both spoke either German or Slav in the house growing up.
They both lived in their own ethnic communities in the US and didn't mix with outsiders until they were older.
Very odd but that was nearly 100 years back before radio, tv and the internet.

Heard it may snow next week in Budapest.
Sort of hope so.
Wasn't able to use our sled for a couple of years here, hope this season it gets some use.
Anyone try the skiing here in HUngary?
Where are the best places to ski.
Not for me but I do enjoy watching.
Took one ski lesson in Big Bear Lake in Ca. ages ago. Didn't fall down but didn't exactly ski either.
Had more fun having a hot toddy afterwards.

Some news from the Budapest Business Journal (via the USA):

Freedom of Press HU ...1

Freedom of Press in HU...2

Rawlee do not take them seriously most people who commented here are from
western imperialist countries, in the last decades they toned down a little, but the imperialist mindset is still strong in them, just look at  fluffy250 just linked an article about the U.S. ambassador complaining freedom of press in Hungary, meanwhile the U.S. forced R.T. to register as a foreign agent and they have a whole inquisition whether Russia interfered in the U.S. election , meanwhile they do it openly and then they wonder everybody hates them.

Please leave discussions of US foreign policy out of this. Globalism is not inevitable. Mass migrations are not unavoidable. Hungary can and will maintain its identity despite pressure from the EU and the left. Foreign residents not sympathetic to Hungarian sentiments should perhaps consider relocating to Schaerbeek or Molenbeek in Brussels. There they can enjoy the diversity lacking in Hungary.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I think it is very important to try to learn any native language once you move to a new country.
I really tried to learn Hungarian but got shut down so many times I sort of put it off.
I know enough to get through the day without bothering anyone. Can read the labels on foods and some basic things like knowing enough to know I'll never pick it up well enough to make a conversation with anyone in Hungarian.
I am also getting older and my English is not what it used to be either.
I have no plans on working in Hungary or seeking any thing other then a peaceful quiet life with my HU husband.
I do know if anything should happen to him I wouldn't want to stay in Hungary.
It would be just too sad to live here without him.
People in our building like me and  don't make a deal out of me being the only American  in the house. Because we mind our own business and always say hello to our neighbors, just act with manners and mind our selves.
If however I was younger and looking to work here I would take the time to attend a language class at the min.
It's respect for the people who live here.
Unless one wants to live in a bubble and only hang out with other ex-pats then learning the native language is a must.
I do just about everything like a native does, cook, shop, not shout out in public or bother anyone with chit-chat that is too personal etc.
I am personal on this site but basically we keep to ourselves, which is fine.
At least trying to learn the ways of the locals shows respect for their culture.
My 2 grandfather's both born in the US only learned English as a second language. They both spoke either German or Slav in the house growing up.
They both lived in their own ethnic communities in the US and didn't mix with outsiders until they were older.
Very odd but that was nearly 100 years back before radio, tv and the internet.

Very nice and appropriate sentiments in my opinion.😊 Very respectful to Hungary as well. It sounds like you've adjusted well to a somewhat challenging situation. But you did it very well.