Absolutely Anything Else

Lost in Space is dire, just really bad acting.

Australia’s TV broadcaster SBS is part of the European Broadcasting Union, otherwise known as the EBU.

“And this is a qualification requirement for entering the Eurovision Song Contest.

Its 26 in the final. At the start, it was 40+

SimCityAT wrote:

Its 26 in the final. At the start, it was 40+

I watched it with Fluffyette1.    We laughed at the Israeli Chicken Song but I think she had the last laugh for sure. No-one seemed to vote for the ones I liked.  I think Cyprus was cheated as was Bulgaria and Ukraine.  Austria, meh, standard fodder. Don't ask about Hungary - a grunge act ain't gonna cut it.

Its a farce and always will be, even Austria was a surprise. As always the UK comes right at the bottom. But the voting system is complicated. Judges vote on rehearsals done in private the day before? Then the public vote and everything changes.

Growing up as a kid, I did not remember it to be so confusing back then lol.

SimCityAT wrote:

Its a farce and always will be, even Austria was a surprise. As always the UK comes right at the bottom. But the voting system is complicated. Judges vote on rehearsals done in private the day before? Then the public vote and everything changes.

Growing up as a kid, I did not remember it to be so confusing back then lol.

UK entry had an interloper interrupting the performance but it made no difference anyway as it was a standard ballad and just utterly boring.  Talk about dragging out the whole thing and the presenters were terrible - pathetic even although the one from NCIS was more sympathetic.  It just seemed to go on and on forever. We tried to vote using the Android App and you have to pay to vote by paying for an SMS.   That's just totally rubbish. I don't think it's going to survive like that as it's all horribly tedious.

My husband will probably watch Eurovision if he happens to flip on the tv and see it's on.
He loves watching people singing or watching young kids playing music.
Not me, I get bored with music fast unless it has a dance beat.
My mom used to sing and dance for the USO in her city back during WW11.
Both my parents were very good dancers, I do not mind watching people dance, it's rather fun if they are good at it.
My first cousin on mom's side passed on a couple years back, she had owned her own dance studio in her youth and taught ballroom dancing and tap.
My mom loved tap dancing, she taught us a few steps but I have long forgotten them. Bum knees and tap dancing don't mix well.
Both of my older sisters were taught to ballroom dance by our parents but me, I have two left feet.
On weekends instead of "watching the game" as so many Americans do, my parents would pick up the rug and turn our living room into a dance hall. Lots of fun.
Only time the tv set was allowed on growing up during the daytime was for either a good boxing match or ice skating.
No tv on until after dinner and only for a couple of hours.
Forgot though we did somehow run home from school and watch a few teen dance shows before starting dinner. Since they were music and dance we were allowed to watch a couple after school.
Watching people singing puts me to sleep most times.
I'm too hyper to sit still and listen.
Usually one person just singing puts me to sleep to be honest.
When we visited the Ruysn museum in Losie,Poland on a family reunion, one cousin had her good friend Julia Doszna, sing for us.
( She has several vid's on U tube)
She is a "well known" folk singer of Ukrainian/Rusyn/Polish folk songs.
Super sweet voice and lady. She travels the world singing , even visited the US for a folk music event.
She brought us all to tears but for me, that was very unusual.

Yesterday we drove to NE Hungary to a city where my FIL came from.
It was a great day, a 19th century fair in the main square, stage with music, found the music a  bit boring, a group of folk singers in their 70's.  Not boring because they were older, boring because their songs were so slow. Since I don't know the words and the songs were slow, I was bored to death. My husband actually knew most of the words...Ok, never knew he was that "country".
Visited a local museum and we had the whole place to ourselves, interesting.
Took a children't train up to the Matra mountains and walked a bit.
Really nice people up there, really nice.
In the square a man was displaying wine caskets he makes by hand, of course he was giving out free samples of his wine, nice guy. Made my day since no one else was selling any wine around there and he was giving his away. We asked him why he was not charging and he was so sweet, said he didn't want people saying he was cheap and not giving out samples. Real old time Hungarians up there, not after a buck like we find in the "big city."
There was even a group of my peeps in custom. Ruysn's had their own little march through town.
Took some photos with custom wearing locals and sat in the gardens for awhile inside the museum.
A women who worked inside the museum showed us around, told us her boss knows allot of history about old local families and told us to contact her when she is in.
Might just do that.
I almost could see myself moving to this city, was very peaceful.

They are even not allowed to use real music instruments because it would give an unfair advantage to those that can't  play one.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Funny enough these guys lived around and in Simi and Ventura county when we lived there in the 60's.
Think the one my eldest sister had a crush on was Rob the singer/bass player.
Of course half the girls in college thought he was a doll too.
He passed away in 2011. Sad he was still on the young side. Born in 43....
All good, got my walk in and home just in time to miss the rain.

Yes, shame, wasn't that old really if born in 1943.   Same age as Mick Jagger and a year younger than Paul McCartney. 

Rain seems to be regularly occurring at the moment but the weather does seem to be a little odd for this time of year.  Good for the plants at least.  Stopped us from working in the garden though.  I was working on my deluxe kennel waterproofing the roof. Just  finished it in time but would have been nice if it wasn't tested quite so rapidly.

Paul McCartney was then born in 1942. Of course there is the theory that it's actually Faul Paul, Billy Shears.
Not sure about that but then again, nothing surprises me much any longer.

We built a waterproof dog house/kennel for our Doberman in Hilo.
More then a dog house really, it was built above ground with a staircase, metal waterproof roof, about 10 feet by 5 feet long and 5 feet high inside.A frame so the rain could slide off.
Painted it blue to match the main house.
He was not allowed inside with our lease contract so we built him his own home.
I'm getting a tiny bit worried about these events on the Big Island.
Have a couple of friends that live there. One is safe in Kona but the other lives in Hilo.
Knew several Hungarians who had/have homes in Puna, not sure if they had to leave their homes or not.
Scary, saw the remains of the old train tracks in Hilo from the tsunami that hit in 1960.
You can drive along a paved road and then have to go full stop because it just ends... Old neighborhoods that just washed away...
We had one tsunami alert when we lived in Hilo. It was scary even though we lived very high up on a mountain with a ocean view to HIlo bay.
The idea that one is way out there in the middle of the ocean is a very disturbing thing to know.
Island fever.

I noticed on FB that Hungary is now going to require a visa to enter the USA for those with Hungarian passports.
Seems there issued at least 700 Hungarian passports to people who didn't qualify for them after all.
Now everyone with a HU passport will be paying the price for that mistake.
I'm not too sure how 700 people got Hungarian citizenship if they didn't prove it. I had a hard time just getting a resident permit.
Maybe these were issued under the program they had of paying for citizenship which now has been cancelled by the HU gov.?
Guess it's another case of follow the money trail.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I noticed on FB that Hungary is now going to require a visa to enter the USA for those with Hungarian passports.

Facebook states they are not a news site. And they are correct. You can not trust anything you read there. Especially in the details, which are spun out of control in too many cases.

This is a more comprehensive source.

In short, the "anti-immigrant" Hungarian government, because of their own policies from simple naturalization, have given out passports that were not, shall we say, totally legit. (Side note: What a shock.....  . Not.). And many of those using those passports are not, shall we say, law abiding people. And that resulted in some of those people got visas to the USA. And some of those people have disappeared in the USA. Quite a problem. The anti-illegal immigrant State facilitated illegal immigration. Oh, the irony.

The result is the USA has put Hungary on a "provisional" visa wavier rights. And Hungary may loose visa wavier rights if they do not "fix" this issue. So it is not Hungary that may be requiring the visa for Hungarian passport holders to enter the USA, it might be the USA.

I understood it to be the US that is the one who's "laying down the law" about the visas.
On the other hand, wonder how many people are entering the US without even a piece of paper through it's southern boarders.
They aren't stopping very many people entering that way as of yet.
My son mentioned something about people being rated in China, classes such as being a A,B, C or D. Those with a low rating are not allowed to travel out of China.
I have not heard anything about this but wonder if it's true or not.
One day soon they will not allow many people at all to move around freely I am afraid.
Passport from Hungary or some other point of entry is not going to stop anyone who has it in their minds to do harm.
I see it as another way to sadly get more money out of your everyday Hungarian who wishes to travel to the US for whatever reason.
More hassle and more money shelled out will detour more people from traveling in the future.
A visa is not going to stop anyone who really wants to enter.
In the "old times" people got visas to the US, did whatever crime they were hired for and left on the next flight out to safety in Hungary.
Just thinking it's a bit too late to start trying to enforce the rules.
Getting a visa isn't a huge thing though just more effort.

The US tried that with the whole of the EU, so the EU returned and said we will do the same, which the US didn't like so backed down.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

On the other hand, wonder how many people are entering the US without even a piece of paper through it's southern boarders.

The US government publishes this data:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

They aren't stopping very many people entering that way as of yet.

Correct. But the Hungarian government made it easier than walking across hundreds of miles of desert or paying a lot of money to a coyote to smuggle them across the border. Nothing easier than to pay a small amount to claim Hungarian citizenship, get a passport and fly into the USA on a plane with no other controls.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

My son mentioned something about people being rated in China, classes such as being a A,B, C or D. Those with a low rating are not allowed to travel out of China.

China is not in the USA visa waiver program. Hungary, currently is. So is a target for scammers, grifters, crooks and criminals especially because it is not exactly a corruption free system here and the simple naturalization law creates a lot of points of entry for these types of people.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Getting a visa isn't a huge thing though just more effort.

That is your experience getting a visa as an American to other countries. For many, in many countries, getting a visa to the USA can be quite difficult.

klsallee wrote:

....

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Getting a visa isn't a huge thing though just more effort.

That is your experience getting a visa as an American to other countries. For many, in many countries, getting a visa to the USA can be quite difficult.

Everyone going to the USA and who is not a US citizen needs an ESTA (Electronic System for Travel Authorisation).  That's regardless of the visa waiver.   Valid for 2 years.  It's the same for Canada, different system, but they call it eTA, valid for 5 years.    Canada didn't have visas for HU citizens for some years but post-911, they put them in at the behest (I believe) of the USA because of the US-Canada lose borders.  Mrs Fluffy had to get a 10 year visa previously for there but I never needed one.

So the recent visa news seems like fake news because they should - in theory - be able to pick up people via early warning via the ESTA system.  If not, why not and what's it for?

No offence to US posters - I was considering going out that way very recently and I wanted to avoid the USA due to bad experiences transiting through airports there before. But it's very difficult, for example, if your flight get diverted or unexpected stops. My relatives and my family have been treated very disrespectfully and in a very unwelcoming way by the CBP in the past.  All for no reason other than going somewhere else or circumstances.  Everyone in the CBP assumes travellers want to stay or up to no good.  And seem surprised that no, we don't, we aren't n'er do wells and we're going somewhere else.

Never had that via Canada who were always polite, so preferred routing would be via Toronto to avoid the USA.

SimCityAT wrote:

Lost in Space is dire, just really bad acting.

I think you might be right. Only seen ep. 1 so far.   I'd like to have seen a far more edgy and dark version like the newer Star Trek movies (but not the latest TV Discovery incarnation). 

Re-imagining shows has been a great way to continue the franchise but romancing nostalgia alone isn't going to cut it in 2018.   

"Danger Will Robinson", oh, come on give me a break.   

Many shows have been recycled and have been far better - Battlestar Galactica for example.

Not sure if LinS will reach a 2nd season.

fluffy2560 wrote:

So the recent visa news seems like fake news because they should - in theory - be able to pick up people via early warning via the ESTA system.  If not, why not and what's it for?

I think you might be confusing two issues and programs. ESTA and the visa waver program (VWP) based on passport holders, and how people got those passports (via simplified naturalization in Hungary -- which is the weak link since ESTA is based on the integrity of national passport authorities). If one had a valid passport from a visa wavier country, then the ESTA is more a formality than anything "just to verify". The program caught some, but not all that tried with these Hungarian passports issued under the simplified naturalization program. Read the article I linked. This based on information from DHS (Department of Homeland Security), so no, not "fake news".

And that is just who got into the USA. It does not even consider how many of these false passport holders are floating around Europe. Probably a lot more. Thousands? Tens of thousands? ????

fluffy2560 wrote:

My relatives and my family have been treated very disrespectfully and in a very unwelcoming way by the CBP in the past.

My wife, a dual Hungarian-Swiss citizen has typically had a lot of trouble with US customs.  Even with her Swiss passport. Seriously. Switzerland. Yeah. That is a real source point of illegal immigration to the USA.....  She probably had more problems than some of these nefarious users of Hungarian passports provided by the current Hungarian government

VISA WAIVER PROGRAM COUNTRIES
You are eligible to apply for admission under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) if you are a citizen or national of one of the Visa Waiver Program countries listed below.

Andorra
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brunei
Chile
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Monaco
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Portugal
Republic of Malta
San Marino
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Korea
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan[1]
United Kingdom

[1]With respect to all references to "country" or "countries" in this document, it should be noted that the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979, Pub. L. No. 96-8, Section 4(b)(1), provides that "[w]henever the laws of the United States refer or relate to foreign countries, nations, states, governments, or similar entities, such terms shall include and such laws shall apply with respect to Taiwan." 22 U.S.C. § 3303(b)(1). Accordingly, all references to "country" or "countries" in the Visa Waiver Program authorizing legislation, Section 217 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. 1187, are read to include Taiwan. This is consistent with the United States' one-China policy, under which the United States has maintained unofficial relations with Taiwan since 1979.

SimCityAT wrote:

VISA WAIVER PROGRAM COUNTRIES

Appreciated.

But I think a simple link would have sufficed.

Or an embedded image.   

Are cheques still used in Hungary? They have almost completely disappeared in countries such as Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, and Belgium, as well as Scandinavia. These countries, in particular, use direct bank transfers instead of more innovative payment methods like mobile banking.

Currently, the amount of cheques used worldwide is decreasing. In 2005, 40% of worldwide transactions were made by cheques, then this number dramatically fell to a dismal 16% by 2010, and then 8% by 2014. The day will come and they will just disappear completely.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

So the recent visa news seems like fake news because they should - in theory - be able to pick up people via early warning via the ESTA system.  If not, why not and what's it for?

I think you might be confusing two issues and programs. ESTA and the visa waver program (VWP) based on passport holders, and how people got those passports (via simplified naturalization in Hungary -- which is the weak link since ESTA is based on the integrity of national passport authorities). If one had a valid passport from a visa wavier country, then the ESTA is more a formality than anything "just to verify". The program caught some, but not all that tried with these Hungarian passports issued under the simplified naturalization program.

No, not confused. 

The question is the same as you said. Presumption is HU validated the passports and then rescinded them and failed to tell anyone else.  ESTA  or CBP or both could have been updated when and if HU circulated its watch lists to other authorities. 

What's the difference - at the airport and before?  Only time but it still depends on good intel otherwise it's a GIGO system (Garbage  In = Garbage Out).  Having the visa waiver is just as much a weak link as it still relies on dipsh*t stupid declarations by individuals saying they are not drug dealers or terrorists.

Obviously having an electronic/chipped passport gets scanned at the airport might save time but that in itself doesn't say anything about it's validity as that's held separately on the watch lists. 

CBP want the passport info before the plane leaves so it can be on the look out for evil and undesirable foreigners. After all how can anyone NOT want to live in the USA.  Many of the issues were covered in the EU-USA safe harbour data protection debacle.

False passports are not that uncommon and can be state sponsored. Allegedly Mossad use them to bump people off like that Palestinian guy assassinated in the UAE..  No-one picked up on those people as there was no reason to suspect them (cf. 911 attackers).

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

My relatives and my family have been treated very disrespectfully and in a very unwelcoming way by the CBP in the past.

My wife, a dual Hungarian-Swiss citizen has typically had a lot of trouble with US customs.  Even with her Swiss passport. Seriously. Switzerland. Yeah. That is a real source point of illegal immigration to the USA.....  She probably had more problems than some of these nefarious users of Hungarian passports provided by the current Hungarian government

Yes, exactly.  The Swiss are some of the most dubious people in the entire world what with their cuckoo clocks, tasty chocolate, cow bells and their desirable designer watches.  And as for the yodelling and on time trains, well, enough said, I rest my case m'lud.

SimCityAT wrote:

Are cheques still used in Hungary? They have almost completely disappeared in countries such as Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, and Belgium, as well as Scandinavia. These countries, in particular, use direct bank transfers instead of more innovative payment methods like mobile banking.

Currently, the amount of cheques used worldwide is decreasing. In 2005, 40% of worldwide transactions were made by cheques, then this number dramatically fell to a dismal 16% by 2010, and then 8% by 2014. The day will come and they will just disappear completely.

Cheques (US:checks) can be used here for special reason s but it's harder work to get one.   Trying to get people to give them up in some countries is almost impossible.  They are used a lot still in African countries as it's just plain easier. 

We've had some discussions here before. 

We use Yellow Cheques here in HU (they aren't really cheques) to pay bills here in cash at the post office (PO).   

Why aren't they cheques? 

Because they are cash with order and therefore Giro payments.   Cheques rely on clearing and sufficient funds where as Giro is always settled there and then and therefore not capable of rejection as such. The Giros are scanned at the PO for validity and a receipt printed.

Hungary is still cash based but reducing in importance.  As far as I know the postman still brings the pensions etc.  Important out in the sticks.

My current DIL from Japan had one heck of a horrible experience on her 3rd entry into the USA.
My son and she were having a long distance relationship, she would stay in the US for 89 days and leave and return again after 180 days.
We were in Hungary most of these times and not 100% sure what actually was the issue but on her 3rd entry into the US they took her to a back room and grilled her for more then 3 hours. Didn't allow my son to see her or talk on the phone.
They asked why she was visiting the US so often, she was not working in the US so perhaps some dummy assumed she was working under the table ( or on top of tables) in Las Vegas  as a dancer/ stripper or something else.
No way, she is a very mild mannered shy lady , could never imagine her doing anything illegal or shadey ever.
Finally they questioned our son who had been ringing his hands for hours wondering what they were doing to her in the back room inside the airport.
He said she was his guest and was afraid to let on they were in a serious relationship in case they for some racist  reasons just put her back on the next plane home to Japan.
( I digress but this happened in the 1940's to my father, his first wife was Japanese and they married and had a son together, the US didn't allow servicemen to marry Japanese ladies after the war years and he was shipped out with his unit and had to leave his family behind in Japan, crazy but true )
They let her go and she told my son if they didn't get married within those 89 days she was never coming back to the US even though she was mad about him.
So that's his "romantic" way of asking for her hand.
All thanks to TSA.
Probably not all that uncommon for people to marry for odd reasons, we married because of the taxman...
She has her papers in the works now to become a US citizen, don't ever wish to go through that sort of hassle again at the airport even though she is a US resident now.
My HU DIL stayed in HUngary for over one year after my son married her, his first wife.
She had all her work papers and green card in hand when she entered the US for the second time.
By then their marriage was not very good, one year apart for young people is a stressful thing.
We are US citizens , I was born in the US and even have some native blood, they still ask us sometimes why we were out of the US for so long when we return for visits.
Not sure if the agents are nosey or if they have a legit reason for asking us.
My bro and SIL both work for the airlines and they both go through the same security measures as the rest of us cattle do when traveling.
No one likes these TSA agents.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

...
Probably not all that uncommon for people to marry for odd reasons, we married because of the taxman...
She has her papers in the works now to become a US citizen, don't ever wish to go through that sort of hassle again at the airport even though she is a US resident now.
My HU DIL stayed in HUngary for over one year after my son married her, his first wife.
She had all her work papers and green card in hand when she entered the US for the second time.
By then their marriage was not very good, one year apart for young people is a stressful thing.
We are US citizens , I was born in the US and even have some native blood, they still ask us sometimes why we were out of the US for so long when we return for visits.
Not sure if the agents are nosey or if they have a legit reason for asking us.
My bro and SIL both work for the airlines and they both go through the same security measures as the rest of us cattle do when traveling.
No one likes these TSA agents.

It's not just CBP or TSA that can obscurely arrogant. It's the invasive behaviour of many of these types.  US administrations do not understand that things are different elsewhere (that's true somewhat also of some other countries - *Romania for example).  The UK has complex rules regarding residence/non-residence but in general, it's not too bad to understand.  UK does not always tax worldwide as it depends on your particular status.

Anyway to the point, I had some shares in a US company which I'd picked up over the years.  I started off these shares 30+ years ago when I had shares in a UK company and eventually after takeover and takeover, I ended up with a trivial number of US shares worth a few dollars. 

Last year I got more and more hysterical letters saying I had  to submit a US tax form which I was ignoring as my income from the shares was like $35 for the year.    I was asked by the nominees (who held the shares for me) why I lived in Hungary if I was not a Hungarian citizen.  Answer(s): 1) because I feel like it; (2) none of your business.   They seemed satisfied with that initially but after a  couple of weeks some discussions ensued and further blah-blah about this and that,  I just said, this simply not worth the effort and I immediately sold the shares and lo and behold I've never had to deal with them again!  Yay! 

I told one of my relatives in passing this hassle as he worked for a US company in the UK which has some kind of stock options. He was also hassled so he too dumped his shares just to get away from the paperwork.  Then his company was taken over by yet another company, based elsewhere and the problem actually went away for him too. 

*Romania - apparently (and I don't know for sure) they have addresses in passports which we don't have so I got hassled about that once a few years ago.  I was very surprised this was even remotely of interest. I have been to Romania about 50 times and no-one asked me that before. I suspect it was an over enthusiastic and ill trained person who was asking.  Case of YMMV whenever you turn up an public officials desk.

The problem is sometimes people are put in power who don't know what they are doing.
I knew a nice women in Hilo who got a gov. job because one of her many relatives "juiced" her into the job.
She hardly drove, I gave her a few rides home from the gym and she talked away.
I swear, I had no clue what she was saying her accent was so strange, some sort of mix of English with Pigeon,Hawaiian slang and Filipino.
Personally I wouldn't put her in charge of a cleaning crew.
In Hawaii everyone is related and everyone helps their own get gov. jobs.
Same thing in countries on a larger scale.
It's not what you know ,it's who you know.

Back around 1975 we were living in Denver , Co. ( nice place)
My husband had a bug to go to S. Africa.
At that time he was only a resident in the USA under the rules of being a "refugee" from a soviet country.
He needed to obtain  a "Refugee, re entry permit" to leave and re enter the USA.
His Hungarian boss in Denver really liked my husband and his work, this boss knew some head of the passport services or immigration services in Denver.
He told my husband to not worry, he would talk to his friend about my husband's papers.
Well, within less then a week we went to the head of the dept.s office and he handled all the details himself, husband walked out of the office with a re entry permit in hand.
We both were really surprised how easy it was, the man had his secretary type things up for us, we were treated like VIP's.
He even asked if there was anything else he could do for us.
We should of stayed in Denver because people were extra nice and extra helpful with us.
So who you know comes in handy in a pinch.
In fact about 8-9 years back when the HU immigration was messing about with me, my husband was almost ready to call in a connection to get things in order.
We never like to ask anyone for favors, try to do everything on our own but things were getting crazy and we knew someone had dropped the ball and were not about to admit they had done so.
The then Health Minister of Hungary was a old schoolmate of my husband's. Guess they were in class for 6 years or so together.
He was about ready to ring him up and see if he could give them a good kick in the rear to get going with my resident permit.
We didn't call him, really against our personal MO to call in favors.
A couple years ago his old class had a reunion and they contacted my husband to meet up. The old now out of office minister came to the reunion, only about 8 guys from their old class attended.
We were in Vegas when they had their little party so he couldn't go.
Got some photos, strange to see the old minister having a pint with the boys.
One guy had made a fuss about my husband being invited though, seems my husband and another boy had beat this kid up when they were in school and they guy was still mad about it.
This former Health Minister was in office pre OV.
Husband was a bit surprised to receive a invite to this gathering because in school my husband was the class clown and the minister was always a serious student  very quiet child who took classes seriously and never made trouble. Sort of nice to know someone like that was in office.
Not sure if the guy who objected to my husband attending went or not, think he did.
So crazy to think he was still upset about getting a bunch as a kid after  nearly 60 some years had gone by. My husband said he had it coming, said some dumb things and needed to be sorted out.
Some people never forget, just too funny.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

The problem is sometimes people are put in power who don't know what they are doing.
I knew a nice women in Hilo who got a gov. job because one of her many relatives "juiced" her into the job.
She hardly drove, I gave her a few rides home from the gym and she talked away.
I swear, I had no clue what she was saying her accent was so strange, some sort of mix of English with Pigeon,Hawaiian slang and Filipino.
Personally I wouldn't put her in charge of a cleaning crew.
In Hawaii everyone is related and everyone helps their own get gov. jobs.
Same thing in countries on a larger scale.
It's not what you know ,it's who you know.

Back around 1975 we were living in Denver , Co. ( nice place)
My husband had a bug to go to S. Africa.
At that time he was only a resident in the USA under the rules of being a "refugee" from a soviet country.
He needed to obtain  a "Refugee, re entry permit" to leave and re enter the USA.
His Hungarian boss in Denver really liked my husband and his work, this boss knew some head of the passport services or immigration services in Denver.
He told my husband to not worry, he would talk to his friend about my husband's papers.
Well, within less then a week we went to the head of the dept.s office and he handled all the details himself, husband walked out of the office with a re entry permit in hand.
We both were really surprised how easy it was, the man had his secretary type things up for us, we were treated like VIP's.
He even asked if there was anything else he could do for us.
We should of stayed in Denver because people were extra nice and extra helpful with us.
So who you know comes in handy in a pinch.
In fact about 8-9 years back when the HU immigration was messing about with me, my husband was almost ready to call in a connection to get things in order.
We never like to ask anyone for favors, try to do everything on our own but things were getting crazy and we knew someone had dropped the ball and were not about to admit they had done so.
The then Health Minister of Hungary was a old schoolmate of my husband's. Guess they were in class for 6 years or so together.
He was about ready to ring him up and see if he could give them a good kick in the rear to get going with my resident permit.
We didn't call him, really against our personal MO to call in favors.
A couple years ago his old class had a reunion and they contacted my husband to meet up. The old now out of office minister came to the reunion, only about 8 guys from their old class attended.
We were in Vegas when they had their little party so he couldn't go.
Got some photos, strange to see the old minister having a pint with the boys.
One guy had made a fuss about my husband being invited though, seems my husband and another boy had beat this kid up when they were in school and they guy was still mad about it.
This former Health Minister was in office pre OV.
Husband was a bit surprised to receive a invite to this gathering because in school my husband was the class clown and the minister was always a serious student  very quiet child who took classes seriously and never made trouble. Sort of nice to know someone like that was in office.
Not sure if the guy who objected to my husband attending went or not, think he did.
So crazy to think he was still upset about getting a bunch as a kid after  nearly 60 some years had gone by. My husband said he had it coming, said some dumb things and needed to be sorted out.
Some people never forget, just too funny.

Perhaps the were scrapping the "bottom of the barrel" when they looked up my husband for this reunion. After so many years most of their classmates must of kicked it.
Funny though, one classmate became the health minister of Hungary and one was a homeless guy on the streets of Buda.
About 10 years back while walking around Buda side my husband noticed a homeless guy begging.
We usually don't give money out like that but he knew who the guy was, a old school mate so he gave him a thousand forints, Don't think they guy recognized my husband.
All good, it might of been embarrassing for him if he did.
It's a bit  strange to think about how each child was in the same class and everyone turned out so different.
This homeless guy had enrolled later into the same trade school my husband did.
This guy dropped out after about 6 months, the class was 4 years long.
All 3 , the minister , this homeless guy and my husband had all started school out together at a young age.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

The problem is sometimes people are put in power who don't know what they are doing..

That is one of the down sides of "democracy". At any time an incompetent goofball might be elected.

What is important is liberty and freedoms. As written long ago by such as Thomas Paine. All this "blah-blah" about "democracy" is missing the point. Democracy is just one tool to help get and maintain liberty and freedom. But it is an imperfect tool and can be corrupted.

TV is one thing, that aside is there a future for mainstream commercial radio?

As technology progresses, internet packages become a lesser charge to receive the net more and more, people choose to get their music through internet radio or music streaming devices. Just as they choose to get the news from the internet.

Whats the typical package for Broadband internet in Hungary today?

SimCityAT wrote:

TV is one thing, that aside is there a future for mainstream commercial radio?

As technology progresses, internet packages become a lesser charge to receive the net more and more, people choose to get their music through internet radio or music streaming devices. Just as they choose to get the news from the internet.

Whats the typical package for Broadband internet in Hungary today?

The package usually is so called Triple Play - Phone, Internet and TV.   I get my TV via cable now (used to get it through the phone company) and the package costs about 30 EUR a month. 

For that (if you can get it at all), you get the phone (as I said),  about 100 Mbps down and 10 Mbps up and maybe 150 channels of which about 3 are worth watching at any one point.   I don't watch TV that way at all now.  I get everything via streaming.  Kids watch TV sometimes but they also look more at their devices now they are older.

I still listen to the radio - mainly LBC (London) as I like current affairs and discussion.  I used to listen to BBC Radio 4 but I got bored.  I get it all from the Internet.

Your thought was about commercial radio but perhaps really it's about the ubiquity of data.  Whenever I see mobile phone packages, I think that's rubbish,  I don't care about free minute calls or even SMS, what I want is mega-Mega-MEGA (did I mention mega) amounts of data at a flat price.  So far the mobile providers are all coming up short on that at a reasonable price. 

In the end I expect it'll be all subscription based - one price, all you can eat.  Even in West Africa you can get that kind of buffet - 4G speeds with $30 a month unlimited data. Offerings I see around here are backward.

The market is constantly changing anyway. UPC, one of the cable providers here, has been taken over by Vodafone.

SimCityAT wrote:

TV is one thing, that aside is there a future for mainstream commercial radio?

As technology progresses, internet packages become a lesser charge to receive the net more and more, people choose to get their music through internet radio or music streaming devices. Just as they choose to get the news from the internet.

Radio is free in most countries. Wireless broadband is not. That will always matter.

Ignoring radio is stupid. Socially and politically. Every car, especially the cheap ones, come with a radio. And modern farmers listen to their radio in their tractor cab. And they all vote. That has been the major mistake of "liberals", who are all wired in with their "Smart" houses and cars thinking everyone else was too. Wrong. Ignoring and dismissing radio, and who owns those radio stations, as an "information" source et al., is not wise.

Just saying.

SimCityAT wrote:

Whats the typical package for Broadband internet in Hungary today?

There are different plans based on bandwidth use. I pay about 7,000 HUF a month for 20 GB 4G on an older (no longer available) plan.

But the best source to answer your question is just to go the major providers web site, such as:

https://www.telekom.hu/lakossagi/english/plans/mobile

klsallee wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

TV is one thing, that aside is there a future for mainstream commercial radio?

As technology progresses, internet packages become a lesser charge to receive the net more and more, people choose to get their music through internet radio or music streaming devices. Just as they choose to get the news from the internet.

Radio is free in most countries. Wireless broadband is not. That will always matter.

Ignoring radio is stupid. Socially and politically. Every car, especially the cheap ones, come with a radio. And modern farmers listen to their radio in their tractor cab. And they all vote. That has been the major mistake of "liberals", who are all wired in with their "Smart" houses and cars thinking everyone else was too. Wrong. Ignoring and dismissing radio, and who owns those radio stations, as an "information" source et al., is not wise.....

I like radio - ideal for getting info, being entertained while multi-tasking.

Internet access is being thought of now as afundamental human right.  Obviously being able to access the Internet allows political organisation.

I was working with a guy from Nigeria a year ago and he was amazed how much free Internet there is.  You can go just about anywhere and find a free access service.  Not much good for roaming but it is possible to listen to radio online just about everywhere. 

It used to be that you could just use a free internet service but now it seems you have to agree to the terms and conditions or worse, a sign up.  That's just an utter nuisance.  But I have noticed Tesco and McDonalds and those kind of places allow roaming between stores/"restaurants" with a once only login at first use.

If anything is likely to stop progress on universal "e-services" it's paid access or restricted data and therefore the regulation (or is it interference?) in the market by the government.

klsallee wrote:

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

The problem is sometimes people are put in power who don't know what they are doing..

That is one of the down sides of "democracy". At any time an incompetent goofball might be elected.

What is important is liberty and freedoms. As written long ago by such as Thomas Paine. All this "blah-blah" about "democracy" is missing the point. Democracy is just one tool to help get and maintain liberty and freedom. But it is an imperfect tool and can be corrupted.

I never could get behind voting or anything  political.
In grade school we were "forced" to vote for a class president and right then and there my blood ran colder then ice.
I was voted as ,"troop leader" in girl scouts, never asked for it but was elected and made the group leader of about 6 girls.
Not even sure why I was chosen , had 3 of us leaders in our troop and we had to meet with the adults and find out what  projects etc. the entire troop was going to do.
At least I got to wear those cool military cords around my arm...Big deal when one is 11 years old.
We were told our father was born into the office of being the Burgermeister of his small village.
( Big deal, a village of 150 people and a few goats!)
He even had some papers to prove it but my Hungarian step -mom tossed them out in the trash in the 1980's.
Who knows maybe he had a claim to being the mayor in the old system.
I have heard that his family owned allot of land in the area of Losie Poland and he being the first born son had the right to be "Burgermeister." ( hold the onions!)
So antiquated a system. He was born in 1921 before the iron curtain went up.
Thank goodness he never gained control of any office, he was not fit for duty.
Would of been one of the worst mayors ever.
Funny thing, last visit my US cousin made here in Hungary, just last summer, he mentioned a rumor that had gone around in the family.
Something about my father cashing in big time on lands he had sold to the gov. in Poland that was suppose to be his birth right before communist times.
So insane how silly rumors go around, my dad passed on in 1986 long before any changes ever happened in eastern Europe.
No idea how or why my cousins thought we were sitting on a gold mine. if only it were true...

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....
Something about my father cashing in big time on lands he had sold to the gov. in Poland that was suppose to be his birth right before communist times.
So insane how silly rumors go around, my dad passed on in 1986 long before any changes ever happened in eastern Europe.
No idea how or why my cousins thought we were sitting on a gold mine. if only it were true...

It might be true.  One of my long time acquaintances is Polish and she was awarded land in Poland which the Commies had confiscated from her father who was some kind of legal big wig and had a share in a large estate. 

She did a property shuffle with some other relatives involved and received eventually a settlement of an apartment in a city called Lodz.  It was worth quite a bit I believe.   

Could be you inherited something from your Dad and are still entitled to compensation.  Maybe the Commies railroaded him into selling.

That's good to hear about your Polish friend getting land back but my dad, no, seriously doubt it.
He had no contact with Poland after he left as a child and since he passed away before the changes in gov. he was lost in the shuffle.
Many of my relations though in Poland seem to be doing very well.
Happy for them.
Some were removed from their lands in 1939 and only a fraction of them returned home, most just moved to a city or left the country after the war.
At our family reunion there was a relative who was 93 years old.
( She passed away about 6 months back, would of been 97 now)
Through a translator she said my family had all left in 1939.
The way she said it made me laugh, like they had just left the planet.
One cousin, guess he is a 3rd cuz owns a B&B right on the lake in Losie, nice big property with a tour bus that even comes into Budapest to take people over to their B&B.
Some sort of "gay tours" he is openly gay and has a partner from Spain.
Very nice guy but it sort of put me off when he was cooking Spanish foods when I came all the way to Poland to enjoy some nice Polish foods.
Had to find ourselves a place away to eat those perogies I had been dying to try.
It was mid July but super cold up in the mountains, the lake water was far too cold to swim in but I did manage  to put my toes in the water. Had to.
My father had learned to swim there when he was 3 years old, it was a river in those days,the small villages had gotten together and decided to turn the place into a resort buy damming up the river and making the place exclusive with B&B's and villas all around the lake.
Money maker for sure, I know we got the "family rate", 3 days cost about as much as airfare to the states round trip.
Next visit over I'll be looking into a ,"Motel 6".
One of my cousins( so weird, I do feel a bit of a "Hillbilly" with so many cousins) lives in the US .learned Polish/Ruysn and helped with our translations of letters etc.
He did our family tree, his hobby. He charges non relations for research work in Poland to support his quest of digging up our family tree and to support all his travels around Poland. He is retired in the US  so has lots of time on his hands.
He goes to Losie several times a year and knows everyone there.
He was helping a man from the UK who was trying to reclaim his family lands.
Such a interesting guy he was. A Ruysn/Gypsy/ gay man who brought his posh English husband with him, a funny blond man in his late 60's.
They both had me laughing the night away with their crazy stories of London in the 1970's.
Platform shoes and all.
His mom was pregnant with him when the Nazi's burnt the Gypsy part of town down to the ground, she escaped to the UK by herself . What a story.
Not sure if this man ever got anywhere with his land claim.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

That's good to hear about your Polish friend getting land back but my dad, no, seriously doubt it.
He had no contact with Poland after he left as a child and since he passed away before the changes in gov. he was lost in the shuffle.....
One cousin, guess he is a 3rd cuz owns a B&B right on the lake in Losie, nice big property with a tour bus that even comes into Budapest to take people over to their B&B.
Some sort of "gay tours" he is openly gay and has a partner from Spain.
Very nice guy but it sort of put me off when he was cooking Spanish foods when I came all the way to Poland to enjoy some nice Polish foods.
.....
He goes to Losie several times a year and knows everyone there.
He was helping a man from the UK who was trying to reclaim his family lands.
Such a interesting guy he was. A Ruysn/Gypsy/ gay man who brought his posh English husband with him, a funny blond man in his late 60's.
They both had me laughing the night away with their crazy stories of London in the 1970's.
Platform shoes and all.
His mom was pregnant with him when the Nazi's burnt the Gypsy part of town down to the ground, she escaped to the UK by herself . What a story.
Not sure if this man ever got anywhere with his land claim.

That's a pretty good story and yes, sorry to bring it up, more material for your forthcoming book!

I reckon the 1960s or 1970s scene in London must have been one of the weirdest yet hippest places to be.  I was a kid then but if I hadn't been, I am sure I'd have been there in my latest duds - flared trousers, platform shoes, wide lapel shirts with inappropriate pattern and overly coiffured hair.  Laughable to think of that kind of thing now.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Internet access is being thought of now as afundamental human right.

Sure. Whatever. But theoretical "access" is not the same as real practical access.

That is like saying access to newspapers in the 19th century was a basic human right. Sure everyone had access to "buy" a newspaper. But how many free newspapers where available then?  So theoretical access was there, but real practical access, for the poor, was maybe "zero".

Information dissemination is a business. Always has been. Contrary to real human right issues, which everyone should have, equally, regardless of their social, economic or political status.

Thus, how much real free Internet access is available today around the world? And before you answer, about free wifi hot-spots, tell me how much free hardware is given out (reliably and successfully -- yes I know about some programs, most are not going so well) so people can access that so called free (cough) either available at a business or paid from tax money (cough) wifi? 

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Internet access is being thought of now as afundamental human right.

Sure. Whatever. But theoretical "access" is not the same as real practical access.

That is like saying access to newspapers in the 19th century was a basic human right. Sure everyone had access to "buy" a newspaper. But how many free newspapers where available then?  So theoretical access was there, but real practical access, for the poor, was maybe "zero".

Information dissemination is a business. Always has been. Contrary to real human right issues, which everyone should have, equally, regardless of their social, economic or political status.

Thus, how much real free Internet access is available today around the world? And before you answer, about free wifi hot-spots, tell me how much free hardware is given out (reliably and successfully -- yes I know about some programs, most are not going so well) so people can access that so called free (cough) either available at a business or paid from tax money (cough) wifi? 

Yes, you are right but I wasn't really going to say hotspots.  That's simply not enough but it's at least something - the modem costs about $8. Not expensive (assuming the last mile is already done).   

I understand access to FB is "free" here in HU if you have a contract phone.  As I don't have a contract phone and I'm not in FB, it's useless as a vehicle for human rights.  In any case, Zuckerberg's invasive fake news project is on the edge of spiralling the drain it seems as their credibility "credit" plummets.

Free WiFi is obviously a first and possibly a second world problem.  There were free newspapers way back as they were funded by advertising but of course, the population had no alternate sources other than gossiping or the town crier.

Mrs Fluffy was here under communism and photocopiers and typewriters were severely controlled. Copiers had a "guard" you had to ask to let you use it.  So perhaps not free Internet but freedom to manage information.

Sometime ago I was doing an African project which involved connecting up some government offices to a fibre backbone - all powered by solar panels. I suggested we make a limited free universal WiFi hotspot for the village/town. The equipment easily supported a secure version for government and a totally different version for village use - all at no further cost.  I got quite a bit of hassle over that suggestion.  But their dictator got overthrown so I might find myself back there again and I can see if I can resurrect it and if there's political will. 

For that country, coming out of a dictatorship,  freedom to share information in any way is definitely part of basic human rights.

klsallee wrote:

That is like saying access to newspapers in the 19th century was a basic human right. Sure everyone had access to "buy" a newspaper. But how many free newspapers where available then?  So theoretical access was there, but real practical access, for the poor, was maybe "zero".

Orwell has an essay about that, called "A farthing newspaper". In the 1930s (and indeed now) one newspaper conglomerate issued a London newspaper or a farthing (a quarter of a penny old money, 1/480 of a new pound sterling; at this time beer was nincepence a pint). i.e. practically free. Orwell didn't say this and perhaps didn't understand it, but the aim there was to drive off competition by undercutting until the competion goes bust. Orwell argues in that essay that this leads to a less free press because you'll just be left with the big boy oligopolies who can peddle whatever lies they choose without competition. He argues, therefore, that you must pay for quality journalism. In short, he who pays the piper calls the tune.

Now, when it comes to the Internet, is it a basic human right or not? I don't think it is yet, but it is on the list, I think. Access to clean water would be ahead of that one, I would say, something we take for granted and I think most people would regard as a basic human right considering it is so bloody easy to do it if we only tried. The Internet is important because for the first time everyone on the planet has the possibility to have access to education and knowledge and lots of free porn and scams. This was the Victorian ideal of setting up free libraries in the United Kingdom, so anyone could go in and learn whatever they wanted, and they bloody well did, high-and-mighty idealism though it may have seemed. We in our 21st century close all the libraries and say "go and look on the Internet, Wikipedia has everything". Well, I edited Wikipedia for nigh on ten years (the missus and I did many of the Hungarian translations to English on the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 for example) and I can tell you Wikipedia is not the fount of all knowledge, noble though its aims may be. If you don't believe me, have you ever heard of the heavy metal band Moetley Cruee? Look it up. That is an idiot mistaking a german umlaut for a metal umlaut in making a redirect. (And there are thirty thousand others like that when I got asked to stop taking them out.) If that adds to the fount of human knowledge then I'm a dutchman.

The Internet, or perhaps more specifically the World Wide Web, is not quite yet a fundamental human right. For a start you would have to have telephony (e.g. mobile telephone webs) just as the physical infrastructure. parts of Africa, especially along the East Coast, have absolutely leapfrogged by not bothering with landlines and going straight to mobile/cellular phones. But it's not about the infrastructure it's about access to knowledge.

Is access to knowledge a basic human right? All our history tells us that we are fed knowledge, we are told what books to read (the bible, the talmud, Martin Chuzzlewit zzzzz) what things to learn. We can do no other, without some foundation we cannot step up. Mathematics would still be true were we here or not, so a basic grounding in mathematics (and I do not mean arithmetic; it would be easier to start with geometry like the greeks did) seems fairly kinda politically neutral (pace Orwell, 2 + 2 = 4. Peano proved it.) Beyond the basics, people should have free access to knowledge, and they can get that far freer than their local library or school library or church library.

But I would still rather they got clean water first.

SimonTrew wrote:

...... i.e. practically free. Orwell didn't say this and perhaps didn't understand it, but the aim there was to drive off competition by undercutting until the competion goes bust. Orwell argues in that essay that this leads to a less free press because you'll just be left with the big boy oligopolies who can peddle whatever lies they choose without competition. He argues, therefore, that you must pay for quality journalism. In short, he who pays the piper calls the tune.

Bit of deja-vu there I think and plenty of parallels with today.

SimonTrew wrote:

.
Now, when it comes to the Internet, is it a basic human right or not? I don't think it is yet, but it is on the list, I think. Access to clean water would be ahead of that one, I would say, something we take for granted and I think most people would regard as a basic human right considering it is so bloody easy to do it if we only tried. ......

The Internet, or perhaps more specifically the World Wide Web, is not quite yet a fundamental human right. For a start you would have to have telephony (e.g. mobile telephone webs) just as the physical infrastructure. parts of Africa, especially along the East Coast, have absolutely leapfrogged by not bothering with landlines and going straight to mobile/cellular phones. But it's not about the infrastructure it's about access to knowledge......people should have free access to knowledge, and they can get that far freer than their local library or school library or church library.

But I would still rather they got clean water first.

I think the East Coast of Africa is less advanced now in telecoms.  There's a cable called ACE = Africa Connects Europe - which is shared up the West Coast and it's been transformational.  It's really made a difference in all sorts of ways - access to mobile money for example and the ability to access markets and organise.

The clean water is of course a basic right and Internet access is not needed to live physically but if you get past the basic Maslow hierarchy of needs, then it could become a human right.  Maybe a 2nd tier over the basics.

fluffy2560 wrote:

if you get past the basic Maslow hierarchy of needs

yeah that is what I was kinda thinking of, forgot the chap who did it. Ends up with self-feel-fullment like I do when I have eaten too many Csirke McNuggetek. You're right, Orwell himself said it somewhere, politicians like to think that all the world's problems are solved when nobody has an empty belly. But that is when the problems start. When you have an empty belly, your only problem is an empty belly.

Orwell was no philosopher (said Orwell) but he sometimes put things quiet well I think. I went to the inaugural lecture of some new Orwell Society in Letchworth (because he lived near there before WW2 they tend to like him round there.) It was just bloody awful. Four people on a platform droning on about democratic Socialism and whatnot. I did what Orwell did, "I didn't mean to, but my feet just carried me out". It was just bloody awful. Nobody had of course actually read any Orwell and no questions from the floor. Needless to say I do not subscribe to the Orwell Society.