Are you happy in Panama?

Thank you for answering. Like you, I, and just about everyone else, spend hours on traffic BUT, it´s just so in ANY big city in the US. In Houston, for example, if you drive the 610 Loop towards either downtown, via I-59, or vice versa...or if you take I-95 to the IAH airport or ANY of the exits in between you WILL spend two to three hours stuck in traffic too. About the food: food here is JUST like food in the States and there are, as you well know, a great variety of local and international "cuisine´s" to choose from. Prices will vary depending on where you go and what you eat. There are a whole bunch of delicious local foods to enjoy if you´re willing to try them out. I spent time, as obviously you did, in Europe, Asia (both South Pacific and South West Asia...) While there, specifically in Korea, it took me a full year to gather courage enough as to try kimshe....Katusas lived in our barracs and, If you have EVER smelt kimshe while it´s being prepared, then you know what I´m talking about "gathering courage" to eat it. What a surprise!! Kimshe is very, very good!!!. What I´m getting to is that Panama, as EVERY country in the world, has good and bad...just have to learn to navigate, find what you like and do your best to get along with the local populace....just as in the US and anywhere else you choose to live...

Thank you for answering. Like you, I, and just about everyone else, spend hours on traffic BUT, it´s just so in ANY big city in the US. In Houston, for example, if you drive the 610 Loop towards either downtown, via I-59, or vice versa...or if you take I-95 to the IAH airport or ANY of the exits in between you WILL spend two to three hours stuck in traffic too. About the food: food here is JUST like food in the States and there are, as you well know, a great variety of local and international "cuisine´s" to choose from. Prices will vary depending on where you go and what you eat. There are a whole bunch of delicious local foods to enjoy if you´re willing to try them out. I spent time, as obviously you did, in Europe, Asia (both South Pacific and South West Asia...) While there, specifically in Korea, it took me a full year to gather courage enough as to try kimshe....Katusas lived in our barracs and, If you have EVER smelt kimshe while it´s being prepared, then you know what I´m talking about "gathering courage" to eat it. What a surprise!! Kimshe is very, very good!!!. What I´m getting to is that Panama, as EVERY country in the world, has good and bad...just have to learn to navigate, find what you like and do your best to get along with the local populace....just as in the US and anywhere else you choose to live...

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you.  Not to discourage anyone from moving to Panama, my birth country.  I am currently residing in the U.S. and about to retire.  I was considering returning to Panama to live.   However, after visiting several times the city where I was born, I decided not to return.  As far as the food is concerned, it would be better to cook at home to avoid the cheap greasy food available all around.  If that is all that you can afford.  My sister moved back, bought a new three bedroom house, and is happy.  If you are very patient, do little in terms of entertainment , and can afford a very simple life you might be able to survive. You will also have to do some research to ensure that the area you move to is somewhat safe especially if you do not speak Spanish.

Hi Celmira9: I´m really baffled at some of the comments about Panama, your birthplace...Panama has beautiful beaches...crystal clear waters as far as you can see...Panama has all kinds of food...greasy and very healthy, European, Asian, Mexican, Argentinian and just about every "cuisine" you´d like at very reasonable, not to say extremely cheap, prices...Yes, as everywhere else in the world, including the U.S., it´s always advisable to study the areas and keep your eyes open just in case. I´m a born U.S. citizen, Italian ascendance and have lived in Panama on and off for well over 38 years while working with the U.S. Government and as an independent professional. The "gringos" I have met here, and I can count in them in the thousands (because of my work I come into contact with U.S. and Europeans almost on a daily basis) and ALL of them, but for a very few, are VERY HAPPY living here. It boils down to "you live as you want to live" and are "treated as you treat others"... Are you from Colon by any chance?

It pretty much boils down to if you come to Panama and start acting as if Panama was your personal fiefdom then you´re going to have problems. If, on the other hand, you´re willing to learn the customs and traditions and are willing to get along with local nationals then Panama could be one of the best places to live in...

Que Onda?  I thought you were the Rey de Panama, Don  Ricardo.  I had hopes that you would grant me a knighthood and allow me to build a costal castle somewhere nice...

Americans and W. Europeans are stereotyped as rude and overbearing.  We all get along better when people walk with humility and sensitivity to local customs.

you lost me desert stormer with that one...

jajaja...and yes you will be granted a portion of my lands and indian slaves...

But I am Indian!  I want white slaves!

JAJAJAJA....GRANTED!!!

Hi everybody,

Can we please focus on the main subject of this thread?

Thanks

Priscilla

Yes, I am.  Pretty scary place these days.

Hi Ricardo.  If u r a beach lover, you will be pleased to know that there are many.  Not everyone is.  Just as not everyone is a golfer.

By the way, Panama is probably one of the few countries in the world, where you can follow all the rules provide all paperwork and whatever is necessary and they will not help you and let you wait for hours just to tell you go home, you lost your time and money for nothing.
They search faults in your documents when there are none and make up some stories and let you wait wait wait. I can tell you, this place is one of the worst and i would never ever recommend anyone to migrate to panama. And if i would not have the cedula already i would not stay here another time.

True tecnorado.  Patience is a virtue in Panama of which many have none although it was ingrained in me while attending Catholic high school in Panama.

@tecnorado
I have been hearing this from panama expats from around the world
I know people who just walked away from their investments
because of the obstacles and hardship
panama is not a favorite destination anymore

Yes, u r right.  I am from Panama and I concur with your assessment of the situation there. You will certainly be fine if you have money.

Panamanian's materialistic?  I don't think so. I would say the materialistic are the foreigners attempting to set up fraudulent businesses in Panama.  Your everyday Pana has no means to even attempt to be materialistic.

Besides the weather, how can anyone say that it is better than the US?  Police is corrupt, you have no one to complain to about anything.  The US is not perfect.

I don't know the usa but if people are saying panama is better, i can't image how bad the usa must be.
From my own experience i can tell you in some parts of the world you don't even need much money to live good and the people will help you anyway.
I drove in 4 countries without problem, panama is the first country where i do not get my driving license because people do not like to do their job.
One of my client had to shut down his business because he rented and renovated a big shop and invested a lot of money but the owner of the shop does not get the fire safety to operate but the building is new there is nothing wrong with it, the people in panama just don't want to work, they will tell you to wait till you run out of money. Another client had his house broke down because over some matters with the bank. The court decided that no one should have the house and it must be destroyed. $50 000 just lost for nothing. I know in other countries you can find ways to avoid trouble and talk to the people. In panama its impossible.

Why don't u leave?  What is keeping up there?

I agree. The same products sold in the U.S. and the same food loaded with pesticides.The big difference is that in the U.S.  we can find some "organic" products.  None in Panama.

True.    My dad always said that. Panamanians have no head for business.  he repeated that like a daily prayer.  He was right.  And he also said that it was a lowdown dirty shame.

Tenorado I assume u  r still there because it will not be easy for you to dispose of your business.  Otherwise, u would have said sayonara long ago?

Actually i did not go to all the hassle to just leave the country. My business is doing well, i have a lot of good clients. I also have some Panamanian friends and employees and i don't just want to leave them because i am sure they will be sad. I will stay for some time but i will not stay forever.

Where are you? There are quite a few people who sell organic produce in Chiriqui. The Boquete Tuesday market is a good place to start. http://www.fincasantamarta.biz/ I believe will ship throughout the country. I know a Panamanian farmer who raises chickens, pigs, fruits and vegetables organically also in Chiriqui. There is at least one hydroponic farm in the Boquete area, maybe more. The growing expat community supports organic food so the options are increasing.

celmira9 wrote:

I agree. The same products sold in the U.S. and the same food loaded with pesticides.The big difference is that in the U.S.  we can find some "organic" products.  None in Panama.

I was actually in Panama City in Punta Paitilla area.   Glad to hear there are more organic products. Hopefully, there are more in the city.

First, I have not read all the replies thus I am only replying to the title of the topic. Not an original but not sure who said this:

"Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be".

In other words, geographical location is typically not the issue. if you are unhappy where you are now, then there is a good chance that won't change just because of a move to Panama.

After reading all your comments, I think my wife and I could live near David with USD$1.500 a month. We come from Colombia and are planning to stay one or two years before making any hard decisions on moving or not to Panama. Regarding happiness, we have learn that`s a feeling that comes from inside. We have leave in USA, Europe, and some countries of South America, there is no perfect country, everyone have their ups and downs and in the end, it`s up to you to make it worth it, by keeping it simple!

I travel a lot and for me Colombia is one of the best countries in Latin America, Colombia is a great beautiful country with friendly and helpful people. The terrible country for me is Venezuela, not because of the political situation, because of the mentality of the people and their talents for Charlatanism

You can get organic produce at the Riba Smith stores. They also have a good selection of vegan stuff.

Panama is very risky for real estate buyers. If the current owner failed to pay taxes for the last 15 years, you may wind up paying his taxes. If you are alert and catch his error, causing a delay past the deadline in the contract, you may wind up paying him rent EVEN if you have paid the full price.  The law protects the owner, not the buyer, and the real estate agent will also stick up ONLY for his client, not you the buyer. Panama has the stupidest laws of any country I have ever lived in. How do I know all this? These horrible things happened to me and my wife.
Solution: Buy a NEW house, never a second hand one. But get an expert to find defects during the one year guarantee period. You will find many flaws. We had this experience as well.

While I dont disagree with you entirely, these risks can be avoided by being astute and most importantly having a good lawyer, which I have been lucky enuff to have......Have done lots of real estate deals here using the same lawyer, and he has made sure that I was covered every time......But we did have a problem once buying a big titled remote finca in Chiriqui, which was disputed by family members of the seller.....So even tho we bought a titled property, we had to defend it in court and it cost a lot of money, plus I had to kick them out in armed confrontation along with their25 cows up at the finca........So yes, the system can be horrible and injust.......but if you do your homework and have a competent lawyer very experienced in real estate law, you shouldnt have any problems........But good luck finding a competent lawyer.....There are not so many out there.............

@tecnorado

Just curious as to the type of business you own and location?

Im an executive in the glamorous narcotics industry, and my headquarters is in Casco Viejo, a stones (get it? Stones) throw from the Presidential palace...........

tecnardo, if you are so unhappy and negative, why don't you leave?

Because i don't just go to another country lost my money and then leave. I have a nice piece of land here and its quiet. I like the weather and the beaches.
Only the people are so bad the worst i have ever seen in my life and they can just steal your money and mess you up whatever they want and nothing happens to them.
For example in Africa somebody steals your money, the person will either get arrested by the police and locked up until he pays the money or he will simply get killed and from my personal experience it works very well over there. People have a lot of respect, as a stranger you make friends with the police and important persons very quickly - they may even help you without requesting any money from you.
I hope the government in Panama will start to protect foreign investors soon or they may take laws into their own hands.

there is panama for everything a law and regulation and every day come new laws, but no one respects these laws! most laws and regulations apply only to honest foreigners and poor Panamanian. for example if a panamanian person wants to sell food or drinks in the street, he needs 100 permits from authorities, you can see in panama city how the Venezuelan people simply work as tourists, sell food and drinks on the street, nobody checks, nobody asks for residence permit, work permit. health certificate...but if a europea for example a German would like to open a shop totally legal, then the whole authorities like the vulture and check everything exactly according to regulation

all the idiocracy come from the spaniards
it's a all bureaucracy hierarchy
same slave system like the roman empire
nothing has ever changed
you might want to visit spain first
go change money in a spanish bank
thousands of ID's and signatures needed
although they live from tourism - franco is still alive

Yes they are molesting the good people a lot, the police even stopped me in super99 to ask my papers while i was shopping. Another time in the Coronado mall while i was walking. Police always stopping and checking driving license in every corner of the country. Its so annoying.
The Venezuelan guys are often get deported and fined believe me its not easy, i am i' m touch with the community here and they are suffering a lot and many of them are very poor and in addition to that the Panamanians always steal the money.

I have 2 guys here and they paid a lawyer to do the paperwork but he simply stole the money and now they do not have permits and they ran out of money because when they worked for Panamanians they simply did not pay them. It happens a lot here, lawyers steal your money and do not do the work. There is something seriously wrong in this country and if i had known before i would not have invested a single cent here. And i thought the people in Africa were bad but they were really honest and treated me very nice even they knew i am not rich. Where in Panama when you are not a very rich person you will be treated like shit by lawyers, real estate agents etc... (sometimes).

Also to those of you who think (especially the Americans) you are cool with the local guys, i can tell you they do not like strangers and they do not like especially Americans they just accepted that you invaded the country and all they want is your money and they will try everything to get it from you. And all the other strangers, you are just walking money trees to them.

Sorry, but the truth hurts.