Immigrating via consulate in U.S. or Legal firm in Budapest?

Contact the embassy in Calif.
You do not want to start out with a lawyer, costs and hassles .
If you have a legit claim then the embassy should be workable.
My son received his HU citizenship with the embassy in Cal.
They speak English and don't play all the games a lawyer is likely to do.

Yes, just go to the Hungarian consulate in Los Angeles. Citizenship is complicated. It may depend on when you were born and when your parents left Hungary. But if you have rights of "jus sanguinis" to Hungarian citizenship, you are now, and already, a Hungarian citizen, and the Hungarian consulate in Los Angeles, after confirming your documentation, may just hand you your Hungarian passport. My wife and brother-in-law both got their Hungarian passports abroad in this way -- going to the local Hungarian consulate in the country were they lived.

Else, if you can not currently be considered a citizen of Hungary, the consulate will tell you your options (such as simple naturalization).

Hi Marilyn & Klsallee;
Thank you both! I was just about to send the retainer fee to an attorney in Budapest today! I need to visit my son in SoCal anyway, so I will take your advice.

Now for really hard part! Leaning Magyarul!

randy.moller wrote:

so I will take your advice.

Let us know how it works out for you.

If anything, it would be a good record and source of information for anyone in the future that comes to this forum with a similar issue.

randy.moller wrote:

Now for really hard part! Leaning Magyarul!

That is kind. The locals will appreciate your efforts even if you do not become fluent.

randy.moller wrote:

I was just about to send the retainer fee to an attorney in Budapest today

A bit of side advise: This is not the USA. I have, for better or worse, had to deal with a lot of attorneys here, and quite frankly, I am underwhelmed by most of them. I do not recommend just sending money to anyone here for anything unless you have done extensive and extreme vetting of their competence.

A bit of side advise: This is not the USA. I have, for better or worse, had to deal with a lot of attorneys here, and quite frankly, I am underwhelmed by most of them. I do not recommend just sending money to anyone here for anything unless you have done extensive and extreme vetting of their competence.

Truth! I asked my original question because the email replies I received from one attorney (who shall remain nameless for now) were very contradictory....1st he says his retainer is $1500 with $500 on delivery of my passport, but when I receive his contract, it says $1250 with $750 on delivery (ring!)... Then I send him the documents I have, including my mother's birth certificate that plainly shows where she was born, and he says we will have to get the original from Slovakia....hmmmm....Where did Slovakia come from?? (RING!!!)  I have no idea. But that led me to this forum, and my question.

I'm going to be in SoCal for 10 days in Dec. I'll let you know how the consulate visit goes!

randy.moller wrote:

Where did Slovakia come from??

From that old Bugaboo... The Treaty of Trianon. After that treaty, those in some areas were no longer Hungarian citizens. So, like I said, your citizenship may be complicated depending on your parent's place of birth. But historically, you would normally inherit your citizenship via the paternal line, not via your mother. IANAL (I am not a lawyer), but where your mother was born I am not sure why it would matter unless you had to default to simplified naturalization and your father was never a Hungarian citizen.

But the consulate should help you with all these issues. Only if they do not, then, and only then, would I suggest consider consulting an attorney. But not one that charges "to get a passport", but just one who consults. Legitimate attorneys will tell you they will advocate for you in the best of their abilities to gain for you your highest rights under the law, but will also give no guarantee in regards to the law (they can not control issues like weird judges or odd civil servants).

Great info~ Tks!
I've been under the impression from what I've read that my father having been born, raised, and married in Budapest should be enough too, but when I called the consulate in LA today they told me I need my mother and father's marriage certificate, documents they're sending me filled out in Hungarian, my marriage certificate and divorce decree, and my US birth certificate (notarized). So it doesn't sound like I"m going to walk out of there next month with my passport!

I did make an appointment for later in December when I'm in Calif, but it's going to be some trick to be ready with all of that in time! I have no idea how to get a copy of their marriage license in Budapest! I have the church's version of their marriage certificate (apparently!), and they will only accept the civil certificate! I don't know where to turn for that yet!

Anyway, thanks so much for all the help. I'll post more of my experience along my road to frustration~

My husband handled all the details for our teenage son with the HU embassy in S. Cal. back ages ago.
It took a bit of time if I remember correctly for them to double check papers with HU before granting our son a HU passport.
We paid all fees directly to the HU embassy in LA.
My husband speaks and reads Hungarian so perhaps if they do not have the forms in English you might be better off hiring or finding someone to help out filling them in.
Much better then dealing with a lawyer in HU.
My father and many relations on my side were citizens of Hungary ages ago before all the wars and boarder changes.Now they are Poles. My father was born in 1921 near the SK/ Polish boarder.
Having one parent with HU citizenship was enough for our son to become a HU citizen as well.
My husband saved all his papers from Hungary, his parents marriage certificates, even his report cards from grade school going back to the 1950's. ( had a copy of his parents certificate, the embassy is more flexible with copies of legal documents then they are in HU, at least they used to be)
The more papers you have from HU the better but having the ones they request is a given, can't get away without those. It is important to have you divorce papers as well, it is for your own good.
My son married a HU citizen in HU when he was in his early 20's. They divorced in the US over 15 years ago. In HU he is still in the books as being married to his ex. I know that for a fact because they showed me the book with his name inside in a small dept. of the HU immigration office where they had the records. He is now married to a Japanese National, I keep telling him to send his divorce degree to the HU embassy to have it recorded in case he ever wants to live in HU again with his new wife. Don't need to get into a legal mess here with bigamy charges and then have to hire a lawyer here, nightmare to even think about.

Oh, almost forgot to mention this,
You can just phone the consulate up and start the process, they can mail the forms to your home.
I am not even sure my husband actually even went into the HU consulate for our son's Passport etc. They mailed everything to the house and we lived less then an hour away from their offices.
Can start the process even before you go to Cal.
You might want to avoid going in if you don't have to.
I went to the US embassy in Sept. here in Budapest, they were nice inside etc, but the line to get in, the security, taking off shoes, going under the wand etc. just stresses me out, like like going to the airport.

Interesting thought that you have decided as an adult to immigrate to Hungary, I am guess it is from the US?
Have you been to Hungary before?
They are a bit strict as they should be with giving out citizenship.
Have you done much research into being a HU citizen and moving to Hungary?
You would be able to live here of course as a citizen but if you still need an income, you would really have to have the skills and language that is needed.
The social system in HU is not much for citizens out of work.
You need at least 15 years of paying into the SS system in Hungary to collect the min. in old age.
The min. is very low by US standards to live on, something like 48,000 forints a month, less then $300.
You must wait at least a one year min. to be able to use the national health all the while paying into it for the first year.
Can only use it for an emergency during the first year.
It is not free either, not expensive but not free as many in the west believe it is.
Hungary to me is a great place to semi-retire if you can afford to live that way.

Hi Marilyn!
Your son's journey through the system sounds very similar to what I'm expecting now  actually! With the exception that I am old lol...

The consulate is  sending me the "packet" with all the paperwork (yesterday), and I should have it in a day or 2. And as you suggest, I will hire a translator to help me. It is really not that expensive from what little research I've done.

I laughed at your mention of keeping all the old papers. I literally have hundreds of documents (including grade school papers too!) that were passed on to me when my Father died. Now I understand why~

I do think it's going to take me awhile to get some of the documents they want, such as my marriage certificate and divorce decree. I'm also not sure how to get my parent's civil marriage certificate, but I will get cracking on it! I think it might be best if I postpone my "appointment" at the consulate until I have a better idea. I don't want to go in unprepared.

You ask about my decision to move as an adult. I am 63, and approx 2 years from retirement. I was raised by a Hungarian, with European values, I lived in Germany for 4 years in my 20's, and have traveled to several countries from there. Now, with retirement looming, I would like to spend my time among people I can relate to and learn from. My "final adventure"! I was never able to go to Hungary in my youth, as I had a high level security clearance here in the US, and had a travel ban for 20 years that prevented it. Now is my time!

My SS alone should provide enough income to live in Budapest, but I am also a programmer, and can work as much or as little as I wish from there (hoping for "little" lol). And as for health coverage, nothing could be worse than here in the US. Americans are one illness away from bankruptcy. They just don't realize it until it happens~ So I am not overly worried about it.

Thanks for all your information. If the forum doesn't mind, I will continue to post my experiences. Maybe they will be useful to someone else!

Best~
Randy

For now at least one can live pretty well on a US SS pension.
I have no idea where you would start in your investigation to find family marriage certificates.
I know here now every district where a person lives it is required to register in the local city hall . They have an office just for marriage issues, divorce, marriage etc.
Not sure if it was set up the same way when your family was in Hungary.
I saw my son's name, my name listed as his mom and my husbands name just by random chance in a small office located in the complex where the immigration dept. is in Budapest.
They had a book.
Not even sure they could help you or not if you're going back decades.
Good luck with the hunt.

Definitely contact the consulate in Los Angeles. They're very helpful and willing to assist.

They do have limited office hours so make sure you call during those times.

If you need someone to assist you with the paperwork send me a private message and I can refer you to someone.

randy.moller wrote:

If the forum doesn't mind, I will continue to post my experiences. Maybe they will be useful to someone else!

It will indeed be useful to others. Adding content to this or other forums really helps. For example, you may find some insight to the following:

randy.moller wrote:

I'm also not sure how to get my parent's civil marriage certificate, but I will get cracking on it!

I think that may have been discussed at this thread (it is very long, and you may need to dig for this question):

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=159331

randy.moller wrote:

And as for health coverage, nothing could be worse than here in the US.

My experience differs  :

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=560212

randy.moller wrote:

My SS alone should provide enough income to live in Budapest, but I am also a programmer, and can work as much or as little as I wish from there (hoping for "little" lol).

You may already be aware of this since you already lived abroad, but FWIIW working here has legal and financial requirements that differ from the USA. See:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 57#3457880

jesperss wrote:

If you need someone to assist you with the paperwork send me a private message and I can refer you to someone.

Thank you jesperss! I will certainly do that. I was actually expecting the paperwork to arrive yesterday, but it didn't. As soon as it's here, I will pm you!

Best~
Randy

klsallee wrote:

My experience differs  :

Understood! I do realize the "care" is better here in the U.S. but my comment was about the "coverage", which is far worse.

I've given a lot of thought to what I'm afraid of, and I'm far more afraid of getting old than I am of dying. I suppose that's not the "norm", but I would prefer to leave something for my heirs, rather than a medical bill, and move on to whatever lies ahead (if anything!).

klsallee wrote:

You may already be aware of this since you already lived abroad, but FWIIW working here has legal and financial requirements that differ from the USA. See:

Thanks Kevin! I'm hoping not to have to work at all, but this is great info!

I also would rather just leave then get old,you're not alone in that idea.
I now understand why so many older people live in senior communities.
There is always someone older then you and someone sicker then you around.
That way you can't feel too bad for yourself.
I am experienced with hospitals in HU.
My husband had a 3 day stay and I had a 26 hour stay in different hospitals in Budapest.
His experience was odd but the staff was nice. They put a guy in the room with 3 other men, my husband included who really should of just taken some X-lax and gone home.
He wasn't even a HU. He had eaten some bad Chinese food in Switzerland and had a "tummy ache" he was insane and just did his "thing" in the middle of the room right there on the floor in front of really ill people who couldn't get up and walk out of the room!
It was bad for the 3 men who had to share the room with him.
I actually ( have a insane sense of humor) brought a nose plug,incense sticks and air  spray to my husband the next day.
No one could use the WC in the room, they all had to trek down the hallway to another WC because that guy was such a mess.
Disgusting is the word I am looking for!
My experience was worst then that however...
In other words, you will have to pay out of pocket in HU for a private room.

randy.moller wrote:

I do realize the "care" is better here in the U.S. but my comment was about the "coverage", which is far worse.

I am on national health, where universal coverage exists is theory.

But, in reality, due to the hierarchical nature of the health care bureaucracy, care and coverage are intertwined. That is, the degree of care you receive at each level, which is linear (e.g. you usually do not get to personally choose your primary care physician), will affect the amount of coverage you receive. Because of the linear nature of the system, such as with referrals, real full coverage for what ails you may be in some cases actually out of reach, and thus be as if it does not even exist.

Of course, one can always step out of the national health care system, and for example go to a specialist yourself, but then you may not be covered under national health anymore, and you may have to pay out of your pocket such expenses.

Not trying to spoil any dreams here. Just hoping to clarify the local situation you may experience in the future.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I am experienced with hospitals in HU.
My husband had a 3 day stay and I had a 26 hour stay in different hospitals in Budapest.
His experience was odd but the staff was nice. They put a guy in the room with 3 other men, my husband included who really should of just taken some X-lax and gone home. He wasn't even a HU. He had eaten some bad Chinese food in Switzerland and had a "tummy ache" he was insane and just did his "thing" in the middle of the room right there on the floor in front of really ill people who couldn't get up and walk out of the room!
It was bad for the 3 men who had to share the room with him.

Speechless!! lol......Sorry, I know it's not really funny~

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I actually ( have a insane sense of humor) brought a nose plug,incense sticks and air  spray to my husband the next day. No one could use the WC in the room, they all had to trek down the hallway to another WC because that guy was such a mess. Disgusting is the word I am looking for! My experience was worst then that however...In other words, you will have to pay out of pocket in HU for a private room.

I guess that was my point Marilyn. I have no intention of spending even 1 day in any hospital. I will accept only pain pills anyway if it's a terminal situation. After witnessing over and over here how the medical field is no longer a "humanitarian" endeavor, but instead is big business and a way to get rich, I do not intend to "feed the monster". Call me an idealist, or whatever, but money was not the reason I was born.

klsallee wrote:

I am on national health, where universal coverage exists is theory.

I'm not sure yet (of course!) what system I will be on. But it doesn't really matter to me. I won't be using the system anyway, so insurance or national system makes little difference.

klsallee wrote:

Not trying to spoil any dreams here. Just hoping to clarify the local situation you may experience in the future.

Thanks Kevin! Hopefully pain pills are not too expensive. That will be about the only health care cost I hope to incur! Unless it is as in the US, where you can have an auto accident, be flown to a hospital in a helicopter, receive surgery, and wake up bankrupt with NO say in the matter at all. If that can occur in Hungary, then I need to re-think my strategy!

Best~

Hey Randy -

Don't pay much attention to a couple of the forums members here...they exist only to really discourage others..my experiences have been the total opposite! HU is a WONDERFUL place!

HU can be wonderful but Hospitals no so much so.
Nothing more fun then being caught off guard finding yourself in a situation of being dependent on a staff that couldn't care less about caring for the ill unless there was something in it for them.
Seriously tipping is needed or you might not ever be on the list to see a specialist even for a minor health issue which could lead to a more serious issue.
Feel sometimes like your going into hawk just to be on the good side of the medial staff.
Whenever I happen to visit a doctor in the US and I joke with them, how much of a tip do you need they stare at me until I let them in on the "secret".

PS, they really don't seem to give out strong pain meds here in my experience, no morphine drip like I had in the US, just a pill every night that didn't do much.

You must have some form of insurance to be legal here even if you never plan on using it.
I understand, I hadn't seen a doctor in the US for over 20 years except for the minor visits for the flu or something simple. Found myself half dead at age 40, passed out and shaking from loss of blood. That is how stubborn and how much I dislike visiting a doctor.  Sometimes when you are faced with actual life or death, most of us opt. for life. I was too stubborn to see a doc before things go out of control.
We stopped our private health insurance when life situation got harder and we no longer wanted to pay out $500. a month in hospital only coverage with a $10,000 deduct.
We were young and thought we were never ever going to need medical aid.
This was in the 80's when $500. a month for nothing was a burden.
Don't want to discourage anyone but it is nice to know the grass is not always as green as you think.
Usually a person doesn't just die from getting older. It is slow, first this hurts, then that, then the eyes go. The doctors do not always know all your issues and mix drugs that cause yet a 3 rd problem etc. It is a slow downhill thing, most times.
I know in HU they will only give out stronger med, class A drugs for really serious issues. You can not smoke pot here, very highly illegal here.
In Vegas I was given Lortabs, strong pain killers  for as long as I wanted them, took them daily at work for over 6 months. I didn't even get anything half that strong after knee surgery in HU.
Just saying if you want to be pain free drinking is more of the national high then pain meds are.

randy.moller wrote:

Thanks Kevin! Hopefully pain pills are not too expensive.

Most medication has cost limits in Europe. Even so, many common things like Aspirin are much more expensive here. So I can not say specifically regarding the cost of unnamed medication in general. But local prices should not be too hard to discover.

randy.moller wrote:

Tnless it is as in the US, where you can have an auto accident, be flown to a hospital in a helicopter, receive surgery, and wake up bankrupt with NO say in the matter at all. If that can occur in Hungary, then I need to re-think my strategy!

I do not know your fiscal situation. So given that:

If you are allowed to join national health, then it might be unlikely you will go bankrupt in the above scenario. But, there are also the "tips" to consider for the staff that saved your life (it is a Hungarian thing.....). That can add up.

If you have to buy private insurance, then your fiscal stability may or may not be endangered. I simply do not know. Maybe that is something to look into more at your end.

jesperss wrote:

a couple of the forums members here...they exist only to really discourage others..

Sighs....

A bit of an argumentum ad hominem about forum members.

jesperss wrote:

my experiences have been the total opposite! HU is a WONDERFUL place!

Yes, it can be. But the devil is in the details. And the longer one lives anywhere, one starts to trip over more details.

Opinions as quality advise will vary. And opinions often depend on local experiences, which often is affected by how long one has lived here and experienced all the details of life. Of course, and to some extent, one's local "karma" (for want of a better word) about how easy or difficult living here as been will also color that opinion. As well as the size of one's expat bubble.

I agree that on one hand there is nothing worse than someone saying something can not be done, while you are busy just doing it. But on the other hand, old age or wisdom sometimes can indeed teach something to youth or inexperience. (Even if youth or inexperience fails to realize that until they are old or wise  ).

So, overall, I for one will trust any rational person can decipher between attempts at unreasonable discouragement or excessive praise versus simply being provided local information about benefits and risks. Both of which are issues one might want to consider to help develop a well informed decision.

Helicopters .bikers, accident, been there in the 70's.
No details offered however, ( still think there may be a hit on us)
No worries, even in the US if a person has no serious funds they will not take every dime away from you.
They have what is called Patient Advocates, who's only job is to play middle man between the hospitals, doctors, insurance and those without funds or insurance.
Hey, living for 62 years and in two different countries, I know a couple of things.
Don't have to believe me one way or the other but experience out does talk.

I am grateful for ALL comments I have read here! It's a very serious decision to change one's life so drastically.

But I am retiring soon enough, and not so involved in family as most people are, so I can choose how I want to spend the last part of my life. I am going to get my HU citizenship in order, and finish my career (a little less than 2 yrs). There's nothing forcing me to make any decisions, so as a wise person once told me....If a decision is not clear, and you're not forced to make one, DON'T! ... My Father~

So PLEASE! ... keep trying to talk me out of it lol! If, at the end of the day, I will decide one way or another, I'll be doing so in an informed way!

Hey, no one said you can't come over and give it the "old college try".
We used to come to HU for 6 months and then go home and work only to return the next year to HU and spend all our savings. You're right, life is not about money.
If you do not like it here or whatever, you can always go home again.
Just don't burn too many bridges on the way!

Please check again with the consulate. I believe that under the approach you are considering, your documents from the U.S. must be apostilled, not notarized. They also need to be translated into Hungarian, but the consulate may do this for a fee. Again, you'll need to confirm this.

(Apostilles are not required on U.S documents presented with an application for Simplified Naturalization, but are required under the OP's approach to citizenship.)

And regardless of your approach, they really do want a full chain of documents, so work hard to get those marriage documents.

Thank you zif~
I think I have all the documents I need, but here is a list:

Father's Hungarian birth certificate
Mother's U.S. birth certificate (she was born to Hungarian parents and raised/married in Budapest)
Parent's Hungarian civil and church marriage certificates
Father's Hungarian passport
My birth certificate (US)
My marriage license (US)
My divorce decree (US)

I just received the application packet from the consulate, and I'm arranging for translations. Thanks for the advice on Apostille .  This is a new twist I wasn't aware of. I am pursuing citizenship under right of blood, so I will call as you suggest Monday.

Thanks!

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Helicopters .bikers, accident, been there in the 70's.
No details offered however, ( still think there may be a hit on us)
No worries, even in the US if a person has no serious funds they will not take every dime away from you.
They have what is called Patient Advocates, who's only job is to play middle man between the hospitals, doctors, insurance and those without funds or insurance.
Hey, living for 62 years and in two different countries, I know a couple of things.
Don't have to believe me one way or the other but experience out does talk.

I know this is off-topic Marilyn~ But you are correct that those that are destitute (very poor, or maybe homeless) will be treated and bear no cost in the U.S. But in the vast majority of cases (especially if you own your home or car), you will be responsible, and have to either declare bankruptcy (paying a court ordered amount), or negotiate with the providers and pay for most of the rest of your life.

That is why approx. 60% of all bankruptcies in the US are related to medical bills. In my view, this is no way to organize any society.

Yes, the medical system in the US is not fare at all.
My 69 year old sister lives alone on her small SS. She worked in the UK for over 10 years but hasn't looked into getting anything from the UK in a pension, not even sure she put in enough years to get a claim in. Just enough years to give her less US credits for retirement.
She went to the eye doc in the US last month with her medicare insurance. As he examed her he said there was a little something on her eye, took a Q-tip and just swiped her eye quickly.
She got a extra bill for $500. as he claimed it as a surgery!
I told her to call up medicare and let them know but so far she has let it slide, sadly.
How could he in good faith do that do a old women with little income? I would go in with her and set him straight if I was closer to her.

They will keep whatever you give them. So if you want to keep the heirloom documents you need to get new originals from the source or ask the consulate to make certified copies to send to Budapest. You'll have to confirm that LA will do this.

As to the U.S. documents, normally only fairly recent certificates can be apostilled. So you may have to get some new certificates if the ones you now have are too old.

You shouldn't need to submit your parents' church wedding certificate or your father's passport, though I'm sure they would like to see it. In general it's best to keep your application simple, attaching only the documents that are necessary. More documents just mean more processing time.

Keep in mind that it can take Budapest quite a long time to approve your application. If you are in a rush, you might shave a few months off the processing time if you submit it yourself in Budapest, bypassing the consul.

Perfect! Thanks zif. I will call the consulate today and find out if they can make certified copies, and whether or not the U.S. documents need to be apostilled (and if so, whether I will need more recent versions).

As for time, fortunately, I have about 1 1/2 yrs before the move will take place (retiring). I'm hopeful that will be long enough!

Whether you need new certificates for the apostilles is up to the state agency that does the apostilles, not the consulate.

Starting from today, you might possibly have the process wrapped up in 18 months, but do not count on it. (Supposedly, Simplified Naturalization takes about half the time to process because it's handled by a streamlined bureaucracy. Supposedly.)

zif wrote:

Starting from today, you might possibly have the process wrapped up in 18 months, but do not count on it. (Supposedly, Simplified Naturalization takes about half the time to process because it's handled by a streamlined bureaucracy. Supposedly.)

I think this is a great question to ask in a new thread! Specifically, has anyone else here gone through a descendant's type of citizenship process, and what their timeline experiences turned out to be...

I have forgotten exactly how long it took for our son to get his HU citizenship via the consulate in Cal. but I know it wasn't all that long, maybe less then 6 months time.
Of course this happened over 20 years ago when I think not too many people were flooding the system with requests.
I am still a bit confused though, our son didn't need to take a HU language test at that time. I believe I have read that it is required now even for those with blood ties to Hungary.
Let me know if you find out if that is true or not.

No language test required if you're claiming you are a Hungarian citizen because your parents were Hungarian citizens when you were born.

Language ability must be demonstrated if you're seeking naturalization under Simplified Naturalization because one or more ancestors, such as your grandparents, were Hungarian citizens

I was also a bit curious, have you ever visited Hungary before. Do you know of any relations still living here?
It is always interesting to see what someone thinks about Hungary their first time visiting.
You may try to squeeze a visit over here in the springtime when it is really nice outside if you have not been here before.
Just so you get a feel of the place before you pack up and come over.

Thanks Zif, good to know that info.