police in hcmc

Your posts sounded like gratuitous statements. Working as a professional in order to assist Viet Nam resolve known issues is something entirely different.

To address some of the issues. The Saigon street, road and parking infrastructure in the 1970s was adequate. The infrastructure hasn't been expanded by that much since then. But, the vehicular traffic level has skyrocketed.

I live in the Binh Tan District and the issues do not exist or are minor because the population density is less than District 1 etc. and the street, road and parking infrastructure is much better as well. Ten years ago District 1 was almost tolerable. The differance is that a number of high rise high density residential towers were constructed since then and the infrastructure was not sufficiently upgraded.

One look at the pictures of 1960s or 1970s Saigon compared to looking at what Saigon looks like today answers the question about what needs to be fixed. 30%-40% of the people currently living in the congested area of Saigon need to move and subway, light rail etc. need to be built and new residential construction can only be built on a remove two to build one basis.

I know that this is drastic and expensive. But, that is what is needed.

70 years old wrote:

Your posts sounded like gratuitous statements. Working as a professional in order to assist Viet Nam resolve known issues is something entirely different.

To address some of the issues. The Saigon street, road and parking infrastructure in the 1970s was adequate. The infrastructure hasn't been expanded by that much since then. But, the vehicular traffic level has skyrocketed.

I live in the Binh Tan District and the issues do not exist or are minor because the population density is less than District 1 etc. and the street, road and parking infrastructure is much better as well. Ten years ago District 1 was almost tolerable. The differance is that a number of high rise high density residential towers were constructed since then and the infrastructure was not sufficiently upgraded.

One look at the pictures of 1960s or 1970s Saigon compared to looking at what Saigon looks like today answers the question about what needs to be fixed. 30%-40% of the people currently living in the congested area of Saigon need to move and subway, light rail etc. need to be built and new residential construction can only be built on a remove two to build one basis.

I know that this is drastic and expensive. But, that is what is needed.

Saigon is heading for major traffic problems in the years to come, unfortunately the government is too reactive and not proactive enough. The airport road is a prime example, it's turning into a carpark nearly every peak hour.

At least we agree on these points, Sir ...

The challenge is mainly two-fold - (a) to change attitude & behavior, and (b) to upgrade the physical components of these big cities (infrastructure, light rail, roads, building codes, signage, parking, etc.).

The 1st point comes 'from within'. It comes from common sense. It also comes from education, engagement & cooperation with the world, cultural & language interaction, and other 'ideals' deemed useful and universal.

And on the 2nd point, if the Gov't builds nice big boulevards and lovely pedestrian-crossings, but yet, no one respects them and drivers still operate recklessly, and the authorities still don't enforce driving regulations & bad unsafe behavior, these best efforts are lost, and incidents, accidents, injuries, and deaths will still occur.

Yes, it's expensive ... but the World Bank helps, private industry helps, foreign technical expertise helps, and there is plenty of help being offered to VN. But if they view it as yet another 'invasion' of sorts, it will still take another 40 years to clean up the mess from the last one ...

One just has to look at most Middle Eastern countries and cities and see how they have developed just in the span of only 15-20 years ... 80% of the development & 'upgrades' were done by foreign nationals under direction from national leaders.

Further thoughts, Placing a 21st Century City on a 17th Century foundation, just doesn't work very well.

After the population is reduced, one can work on the issue of sidewalks. To fix the sidewalk issues the sidewalks must become city property and reconstructed maintained and a no business, parking or any other use of the sidewalk except for pedestrians forbidden and enforced with draconian force.

This will force tens of thousands, more likely hundreds of thousands of people out of work and into poverty and even starvation unless they have been successfully relocated beforehand. The uniform pedestrian walkway sidewalks will also raise havoc with parking cars in the garage floor of the Typical tubular housing.

How long has the Saigon UBND been talking about multi level cars parks, years and years. Why are we still waiting, red tape and the right amount of grafts need to be settled.

70 years old wrote:

The uniform pedestrian walkway sidewalks will also raise havoc with parking cars in the garage floor of the Typical tubular housing.

Remember your own suggestion my friend.

70 years old wrote:

and new residential construction can only be built on a remove two to build one basis.

Cutting driveways across sidewalks will be a lot more feasible if the housing density is cut in half.

BuddyM wrote:

At least we agree on these points, Sir ...

The challenge is mainly two-fold - (a) to change attitude and behavior, and (b) to upgrade the physical components of these big cities (infrastructure, light rail, roads, building codes, signage, parking, etc.).

The 1st point comes 'from within'. It comes from common sense. It also comes from education, engagement & cooperation with the world, cultural & language interaction, and other 'ideals' deemed useful and universal.

And on the 2nd point, if the Gov't builds nice big boulevards and lovely pedestrian-crossings, but yet, no one respects them and drivers still operate recklessly, and the authorities still don't enforce driving regulations & bad unsafe behavior, these best efforts are lost, and incidents, accidents, injuries, and deaths will still occur.

Yes, it's expensive ... but the World Bank helps, private industry helps, foreign technical expertise helps, and there is plenty of help being offered to VN. But if they view it as yet another 'invasion' of sorts, it will still take another 40 years to clean up the mess from the last one ...

One just has to look at most Middle Eastern countries and cities and see how they have developed just in the span of only 15-20 years ... 80% of the development & 'upgrades' were done by foreign nationals under direction from national leaders.

I've been in and out of Viet Nam since the 1969. My, Vietnamese, wife of 45 years and I have seen drastic change in Viet Nam over several decades. I've seen too much war and too many different cultures to be very impressed with most of the stuff that is declared to be universal. A lot of that is pure BS.

From my experience culture and attitude to a very large extent are determined by environment and I would work on the environment first and behavior second. I'll send you a private message that might be helpful.

THIGV wrote:

70 years old wrote:

The uniform pedestrian walkway sidewalks will also raise havoc with parking cars in the garage floor of the Typical tubular housing.

Remember your own suggestion my friend.

70 years old wrote:

and new residential construction can only be built on a remove two to build one basis.

Cutting driveways across sidewalks will be a lot more feasible if the housing density is cut in half.

Yes. Ban cars. If that isn't workable severely controlled access. In the late 1940s maybe early 1950s , I remember visiting family friends in Chicago. They had a car. But the car was only used for weekend drives. Sort of like going to the Marina to take the boat for a little cruse. From that standpoint, a few cars are reasonable. Normal, weekday transportation was by Bus or Taxi

THIGV wrote:

70 years old wrote:

The uniform pedestrian walkway sidewalks will also raise havoc with parking cars in the garage floor of the Typical tubular housing.

Remember your own suggestion my friend.

70 years old wrote:

and new residential construction can only be built on a remove two to build one basis.

Cutting driveways across sidewalks will be a lot more feasible if the housing density is cut in half.

If it were my choice, I wouldn't allow cutting the sidewalk. I'd require the homeowner to modify the building floor.  Agreed 50% is better. But realistically . . .

Very hard to stop when the citizens don't give a damn about road rules.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/39600/hun … lk-driving

colinoscapee wrote:

Very hard to stop when the citizens don't give a damn about road rules.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/39600/hun … lk-driving

That's outstanding!!!  I need to go find the Honorable Doan Ngoc Hai, Deputy Chairman of the District 1 People’s Committee, shake his hand, say "thanks" and offer his boys some coffee coupons or something. I love the 350,000 VND fine as well - it should really be 3,500,000 VND and immediate motorbike confiscation if there is any yapping back to the cop, but that's a great start.

Maybe he can deputize me as a VN traffic cop and I will gladly help his work!!
Get out the video cameras as well with plate and facial recognition.
Spike belts across sidewalks would be fun too.
You will rack up millions in fines and fill coffers.

Keep up the sidewalk-patrols, HCMC Police !!! 
Great work ...

As with most crackdowns, give it a month and it will be back to normal.

colinoscapee wrote:

As with most crackdowns, give it a month and it will be back to normal.

If the money is good, they will be back at it in no time ... plenty of (idiotic) customers!
Keep bolting down more sidewalk cross-bars, and that too will help.

They did the same with breath testing, big fanfare for a month or two then nothing. Dont hold your breath Buddy, the police are extremely lazy.

Cars are effectively banned, just indirectly via taxation of which the privileged are exempted from.

Vietnam needs a new Government that aren't rent seeking. Why would the current regime care about bad behaviour of it's citizens or destruction of the environment when their own plan is to send their children abroad to study, hopefully live and launder their dirty money there.

colinoscapee wrote:

How long has the Saigon UBND been talking about multi level cars parks, years and years. Why are we still waiting, red tape and the right amount of grafts need to be settled.

That's what I have always thought. However, I have seen one dedicated multi storey public car park in Hanoi that I don't think was part of any shopping centre or apartment building but even if there was somewhere to park  a car at your destination, most people in the cities live in alleyways too small for cars so nowhere safe to keep it at home, at night.

In city center London, parking is a serious business to be in when drivers are paying £7 an hr on top of their congestion charge. But in Vietnam, low car ownership plus the culture of riding a scooter right up to the shop, cafe...bar and having it parked by the security guard is too convenient right now.

Well, If I did something wrong Im happy to pay.. and one thing I regular break is speed limit ( I know.. I'm a bad bad boy  )

Imagine my surprise when I first realized that they have speed traps here.. 
I did try to weasel my way out of it but it seems they got a nice pic of me (note to the moderator, it is my rear in that pic to It should be allowed  )



But what comes to this we should adapt to their driving style is crazy.. they (well not all) like to run red lights and I should just accept it?? or worse do it my self too and not feel guilty? I have stopped people who run red lights, and what really gets me is those who run red lights and wave their hands to you so they can go first..

Personally I don't care what they do in traffic unless it makes me unsafe..

Last weekend went to Aeon mall in Hanoi, on highway there was a white suv who tried to overtake me from (I was on right lane) the hardshoulder about five times, and some of those times left lane was completely empty. Then I had enough and when he tried again I slowly stopped and made him to stop too. Then proceed to exit my car and had "nice and warm" talk with the guy.. what I regret mostly is that there was no cameras..
Reminder to myself.. Get cameras to the car.. front, rear, and if possible to side ones too with audio..

Find the entire thread amusing. This country spins on a corrupt axis. Nothing works the way it is suppose to. Even the students can not be taught in school. But you can hire the same teacher to tutor your child after school learn the subject she forgot to teach them in school. My landlord was the building inspector for a large VNese city and is now a multimillionaire home owner ( Many homes), all from coffee money. Pays to belong to the party and get a gov't job. And hate to shock you all, but I have been in 68 countries and many operate the same way. Me I would rather pay the cop $5 then have my insurance premiums raised in America for many years due to a traffic ticket. I have lived here over 4 years now. Never had a DL. Only place I have ever had to pay coffee money was in HCM. I have lived in two cities here where stopping Westerners is off limits for the police.

I am Vietnamese. I feel sad to read this. Especially it was wrote by a foreigner.

Diazo wrote:

Find the entire thread amusing. This country spins on a corrupt axis. Nothing works the way it is suppose to. Even the students can not be taught in school. But you can hire the same teacher to tutor your child after school learn the subject she forgot to teach them in school. My landlord was the building inspector for a large VNese city and is now a multimillionaire home owner ( Many homes), all from coffee money. Pays to belong to the party and get a gov't job. And hate to shock you all, but I have been in 68 countries and many operate the same way. Me I would rather pay the cop $5 then have my insurance premiums raised in America for many years due to a traffic ticket. I have lived here over 4 years now. Never had a DL. Only place I have ever had to pay coffee money was in HCM. I have lived in two cities here where stopping Westerners is off limits for the police.

Make sure you never have a serious accident involving a local getting seriously hurt, then you will see exactly how things work.

Oh I realize how things work. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Ok, good luck and ride safe.

@ 70 Years Old,
  Spot on comments about the urban congestion etc. However, sad to say you must have a government that can govern. Don't get me wrong, I love VN and so much about it. But they have no clue what an planning engineer is I do not think. To make any progress, and it will be so out of control before they even decide to get control, they need zoning codes. Then they need to fit those codes to a 10, 20, 30 year plan. Perhaps in 50 years they will realize this. But with structure one looses freedom. So much about the lack of structure I love. But in reality us crazy humans need it.
  Have a friend who built a gorgeous home. Pain had hardly dried and someone built a Karaoke joint next to it. So he moves on. Like in many big decaying cities you get urban sprawl. We see this in D7. It is in these places they need to establish rules and develop the infrastructure to move people etc. Let the inner city die off. I will come back to life in 40 years. Then apply zoning and planning there and tear down the old stuff. HCM has a huge task ahead of it. Heck D2 should have never been allowed to be built below sea level. Now with the seas rising they have a real mess. When I lived there there were times it was hard to get in or out for the flooding.

@Diazo,

You make good points. One thing that really shocked me when we wound up in L.A. after the Evacuation of Saigon was how unfree and regulated things in L.A. were in Bac's view compared to Bac's experience of living in Viet Nam. My home town in Texas where we wound up raising our kids was a lot more to her taste and I had never liked L.A. much either. Bac is more or less a Texan by choice and an American because that is part of the deal.

The point is that Americans and Vietnamese object strongly to a bit different social and legal forces that they consider unfree and over-regulated. Loud wedding music with drunken poor singing is one that I have noticed from time to time.

But, having my own pistol firing range in my own Texas back yard is a bit hard for even some Americans to wrap their head around.

@ 70 year old,
  Not sure I get your exact drift. But for me I feel much more free here than I do in America. I tell that to so many VNese that think America is some sort of panacea. Not to mention I feel much safer here. But that might be because I don't watch or hear the news here. But for the most part the crimes here are crimes of opportunity. Can you imagine a Brinks truck delivering money to a bank in America with no weapons!!

@ LeLong 111,
  Don't be saddened my friend. I have lived in 68 countries. In each and everyone where they country was poor and the government did not pay good waged the popular found a way to make money. Here the coffee funds thrives.
  I do not know your age. But most citizens here have an active roll in perpetuating this in that they hate like heck to pay their taxes and don't. Every year where I live they have a vehicle go around town with a
public agrees system mounted on it begging the citizens to pay their taxes.
  In my country we real estate investors say you never really own your property. Just don't pay your property taxes and see who owns it then. The government will take it back in a heart beat. I realize VN is knew to land/home ownership. But hopefully there will come a day when the gov't takes the property of those who do not pay their taxes. It is with those taxes that the police and fireman get paid. So they must get paid some how.
  So if you feel real sad have your family and friends pay their taxes. In time it will make a positive difference in your beautiful country.

@Diazo

With the exception of the "Spirit Home" one can not own property and the "Spirit House" gets complicated. What you can own is a 50 year lease of the surface rights of the property. Where the VN Government gets their property tax revenue is when the "property" is sold or the 50 year lease runs out. To get a "Red Book," the taxes have to be paid up to date. The taxes you are referring to are nickel and dime stuff that does directly help the neighborhood. We've always paid that.

One thing to watch out for is that the price the seller is asking does not generally include the tax liability.

Oh that is not the only tax I am referring to. These people just don't except the fact that taxes are necessary for the good of all and they need to be paid. Heck I don't like them in my country either. But I realize I do have a duty. Here corruption is what they prefer. Not the first country to believe this way. And I am not certain who is right......those that pay or those that don't.