Brexit and its implications for British, HU and any other citizens

They factually have 2, but only use one at a time, the 2nd, or northern runway runs parallel to the primary and is currently used as a taxiway until they need to do something to the main runway when they switch to the Northern; there is talk of moving the Northern 12m further away from the main so they can run both (like LHR).  The current layout may have something to do with when the place was a joint RAF/Army airfield during WW2 and then subsequently a civilian Air Cargo place, until increasing general aviation and charter flights caused reviews and what LGW is today.
I was involved in the trial for the City Airport; they used RAF BAE146 aircraft to test the Approach and the climb out with some walking freight on board that wouldn't moan when the extremes were tested, so we'd split our Monday morning 737 load out of Germany between 2 146's, send one to Luton and the other to the City.  It actually suited us better with those heading to the MOD main building being very happy.


Coastal derogations are split between the 3 services; the RAF look after Wales and the City of London, the Navy have Ireland and Scotland plus all of the Islands, and the Army the rest; I used to look after Felixstowe and Mistley.  I assume it's still the same, the MOD are slow to change.
   
    -@Cynic

Good Lord, you could knock me down with a feather.   Indeed LGW has two runways.  28L+R and 08L+R. I've got the aviation charts for SE England but obviously didn't look at them enough.

08L    2,561m / 8,402ft    Asphalt   

08R    3,317m / 10,883ft    Asphalt   

26L    3,317m / 10,883ft    Asphalt   

26R    2,561m / 8,402ft    Asphalt

The 2,561m runway would be OK for a A380 fully loaded under the right conditions.  I've been into LGW many times but never been on the shorter runway as far as I know.  I always thought it was a taxiway and never looked past that.  I'm going to look a lot more closely if I have cause to be on their bridge thing to see it properly.

I always liked the BAE146 but I guess 4 engines harder to maintain than 2.   I flew on BAE146s a number of times and thought it was OK.

ATC used to be at West Drayton (I lived 10 minutes away) but I moved away from there and it was all relocated to Swanick.

  .... I always liked the BAE146 but I guess 4 engines harder to maintain than 2.   I flew on BAE146s a number of times and thought it was OK.ATC used to be at West Drayton (I lived 10 minutes away) but I moved away from there and it was all relocated to Swanick.        -@fluffy2560

That's my wife's claim to fame; we would quite often get a Queens Flight 146 calling into FMO and I'd do the crew a few favours getting transport to civilisation as we were the only military detachment on the airfield, so one day my wife had called in for a coffee when one of the crew of the 146 called in, cut a story short, she and her colleagues ended up getting a guided tour of the 146 and got to use the royal hand lotion (with permission ofc).  Speaking as somebody who has ground-handled probably thousands of aircraft across the world, that thing was gleaming in every nook and cranny I could look into; even the undercarriage bay looked like new.

Just to finish; I knew West Drayton well, it's my part of London (I was born in Ruislip) and when I worked at Gutersloh, I lived with a bunch of Air Traffickers who went on to become life friends, so I would call into West Drayton to catch up when home on leave.

That's my wife's claim to fame; we would quite often get a Queens Flight 146 calling into FMO and I'd do the crew a few favours getting transport to civilisation as we were the only military detachment on the airfield, so one day my wife had called in for a coffee when one of the crew of the 146 called in, cut a story short, she and her colleagues ended up getting a guided tour of the 146 and got to use the royal hand lotion (with permission ofc).  Speaking as somebody who has ground-handled probably thousands of aircraft across the world, that thing was gleaming in every nook and cranny I could look into; even the undercarriage bay looked like new.

Just to finish; I knew West Drayton well, it's my part of London (I was born in Ruislip) and when I worked at Gutersloh, I lived with a bunch of Air Traffickers who went on to become life friends, so I would call into West Drayton to catch up when home on leave.
   

    -@Cynic

Surprised me the BAE146 wasn't more popular but I think BAE missed the trend for 2 engined planes.  Twice the parts, twice the chance things could go wrong.   It's probably better ATC was moved from West Drayton.  It wasn't that great a place.  I was a couple of miles up the road in Yiewsley. 

Just trivia but some islands of the Pacific, ATC is provided remotely from San Francisco.  Local radar beamed to HQ thousands of km away.  Quite interesting.

My own local grass strip airfield is VFR - hobby flying.  Gliders and single engine planes.  Very rarely we see a twin there.  One still has to report into Budapest ATC and get a transponder code.   Left bank of the Danube is pretty much open for VFR below around 3000ft AMSL although some areas are on the approach to Budapest and as they are hills, the actual planes may only be at 800ft relative.  Paragliders have to be very aware.

    That's my wife's claim to fame; we would quite often get a Queens Flight 146 calling into FMO and I'd do the crew a few favours getting transport to civilisation as we were the only military detachment on the airfield, so one day my wife had called in for a coffee when one of the crew of the 146 called in, cut a story short, she and her colleagues ended up getting a guided tour of the 146 and got to use the royal hand lotion (with permission ofc).  Speaking as somebody who has ground-handled probably thousands of aircraft across the world, that thing was gleaming in every nook and cranny I could look into; even the undercarriage bay looked like new.Just to finish; I knew West Drayton well, it's my part of London (I was born in Ruislip) and when I worked at Gutersloh, I lived with a bunch of Air Traffickers who went on to become life friends, so I would call into West Drayton to catch up when home on leave.        -@Cynic

Surprised me the BAE146 wasn't more popular but I think BAE missed the trend for 2 engined planes.  Twice the parts, twice the chance things could go wrong.   It's probably better ATC was moved from West Drayton.  It wasn't that great a place.  I was a couple of miles up the road in Yiewsley. 

Just trivia but some islands of the Pacific, ATC is provided remotely from San Francisco.  Local radar beamed to HQ thousands of km away.  Quite interesting.

My own local grass strip airfield is VFR - hobby flying.  Gliders and single engine planes.  Very rarely we see a twin there.  One still has to report into Budapest ATC and get a transponder code.   Left bank of the Danube is pretty much open for VFR below around 3000ft AMSL although some areas are on the approach to Budapest and as they are hills, the actual planes may only be at 800ft relative.  Paragliders have to be very aware.
   

    -@fluffy2560

The 146 (and the RJ derivative) was actually the most successful British airliner ever - they sold more than 390 of them.  Its quiet STOL characteristics made it a popular jet for flying into city airports around the world; just a pity that people decided they didn't like city airports, so its reason for being has withered on the vine.  It was a marmite aircraft, people claimed to hate it because the toilets were too small.  A quick Google search tells me there are still 70+ still flying today.

Our local airfield is Sherburn in Elmet (EGCJ) - worthy as it was the site where they built the Swordfish aircraft for the Royal Navy (or so the monument says); it was known for being the busiest non-commercial airfield in the UK, but with the closure of RAF Church Fenton - we now have Leeds East rising from those ashes and things are a bit quieter in the village these days.)  It wouldn't surprise me if Church Fenton eventually replaced Leeds Bradford as the region's airport; the singular significant factor for Church Fenton is it's rail-served, 10 miles from the A1(M) - so not much effort to improve the road network to run straight in and already has significant investment to support the movie/film industry that has been built on the old airfield site, the demise of Doncaster and Sheffield airports that were touted as contenders has got the locals jumping up and down.

The 146 (and the RJ derivative) was actually the most successful British airliner ever - they sold more than 390 of them.  Its quiet STOL characteristics made it a popular jet for flying into city airports around the world; just a pity that people decided they didn't like city airports, so its reason for being has withered on the vine.  It was a marmite aircraft, people claimed to hate it because the toilets were too small.  A quick Google search tells me there are still 70+ still flying today.
Our local airfield is Sherburn in Elmet (EGCJ) - worthy as it was the site where they built the Swordfish aircraft for the Royal Navy (or so the monument says); it was known for being the busiest non-commercial airfield in the UK, but with the closure of RAF Church Fenton - we now have Leeds East rising from those ashes and things are a bit quieter in the village these days.)  It wouldn't surprise me if Church Fenton eventually replaced Leeds Bradford as the region's airport; the singular significant factor for Church Fenton is it's rail-served, 10 miles from the A1(M) - so not much effort to improve the road network to run straight in and already has significant investment to support the movie/film industry that has been built on the old airfield site, the demise of Doncaster and Sheffield airports that were touted as contenders has got the locals jumping up and down.
   

    -@Cynic

Yes, I remember the 146 as the Whisperjet.  I think I flew several times on Sabena on a 146.   Obviously Sabena is no more.

I didn't know about East Leeds Airport but did know about Doncaster/Sheffield's closure.  Reminded my of that infamous abandoned airport in Spain.

A lot of airfields seem to be turned into movie/TV studio lots.  Large empty buildings are perfect with sufficient sound proofing.   Leavesden Airfield was where they made the very successful Barbie movie and that crap Harry Potter.   I remember it was Hawker Siddley's factory location.  I can remember planes landing there when I was a kid.  We used to drive past it.

I've been to Leeds-Bradford Airport a couple of times. I was on a plane from AMS to MAN and fog meant circling around to try around land at either Liverpool, Birmingham or go on to Dublin (!!).  In the end we ended up at Leeds.  It was absolutely mobbed with diverted planes.  I was very late. 

    The 146 (and the RJ derivative) was actually the most successful British airliner ever - they sold more than 390 of them.  Its quiet STOL characteristics made it a popular jet for flying into city airports around the world; just a pity that people decided they didn't like city airports, so its reason for being has withered on the vine.  It was a marmite aircraft, people claimed to hate it because the toilets were too small.  A quick Google search tells me there are still 70+ still flying today.Our local airfield is Sherburn in Elmet (EGCJ) - worthy as it was the site where they built the Swordfish aircraft for the Royal Navy (or so the monument says); it was known for being the busiest non-commercial airfield in the UK, but with the closure of RAF Church Fenton - we now have Leeds East rising from those ashes and things are a bit quieter in the village these days.)  It wouldn't surprise me if Church Fenton eventually replaced Leeds Bradford as the region's airport; the singular significant factor for Church Fenton is it's rail-served, 10 miles from the A1(M) - so not much effort to improve the road network to run straight in and already has significant investment to support the movie/film industry that has been built on the old airfield site, the demise of Doncaster and Sheffield airports that were touted as contenders has got the locals jumping up and down.        -@Cynic

Yes, I remember the 146 as the Whisperjet.  I think I flew several times on Sabena on a 146.   Obviously Sabena is no more.

I didn't know about East Leeds Airport but did know about Doncaster/Sheffield's closure.  Reminded my of that infamous abandoned airport in Spain.

A lot of airfields seem to be turned into movie/TV studio lots.  Large empty buildings are perfect with sufficient sound proofing.   Leavesden Airfield was where they made the very successful Barbie movie and that crap Harry Potter.   I remember it was Hawker Siddley's factory location.  I can remember planes landing there when I was a kid.  We used to drive past it.

I've been to Leeds-Bradford Airport a couple of times. I was on a plane from AMS to MAN and fog meant circling around to try around land at either Liverpool, Birmingham or go on to Dublin (!!).  In the end we ended up at Leeds.  It was absolutely mobbed with diverted planes.  I was very late. 
   

    -@fluffy2560

Oops - just got told off, it's actually called Leeds East Airport, my bad.  Our eldest learned to fly there while with the Air Training Corps and we almost bought a house there.  One thing about RAF stations built in the 30's was they all seemed to have been built from the same set of blueprints; the entrance, guardroom, station headquarters, and fire station were all practically identical.  Married quarters, messes, and admin accommodation are the same.  Our first Married Quarter was at South Cerney, an old RAF station and when we walked around Church Fenton, it was like going back in time, we could have bought an exact copy of our first house for not a lot of money; but then we thought about all the things we hated in that first house and they were still there, so we opted out.

Anyway, this has gone way off-topic, so I shall go get some gardening done.

Just thought, back on topic; latest thought seems to be that many aspects of the EU (including freedom of travel) are up for grabs if Labour get in next year, now it would be great if they had flights from Church Fenton to Amsterdam

Oops - just got told off, it's actually called Leeds East Airport, my bad.  Our eldest learned to fly there while with the Air Training Corps and we almost bought a house there.  One thing about RAF stations built in the 30's was they all seemed to have been built from the same set of blueprints; the entrance, guardroom, station headquarters, and fire station were all practically identical.  Married quarters, messes, and admin accommodation are the same.  Our first Married Quarter was at South Cerney, an old RAF station and when we walked around Church Fenton, it was like going back in time, we could have bought an exact copy of our first house for not a lot of money; but then we thought about all the things we hated in that first house and they were still there, so we opted out.Anyway, this has gone way off-topic, so I shall go get some gardening done.Just thought, back on topic; latest thought seems to be that many aspects of the EU (including freedom of travel) are up for grabs if Labour get in next year, now it would be great if they had flights from Church Fenton to Amsterdam        -@Cynic

I know what you mean about RAF stations.  Same kind of brickwork and layout. Like they got a job lot on the plans and materials.

Anyway, I did say a while back that I didn't believe Starmer when he said Brexit was not going to be reversed.  And it seems it might come to pass that it does go backward.  I reckon he'll back pedal over time to something like BRINO.   It's not bad for an incremental reduction of Brexit annoyances. I'll take those improvements over the Tories any day of the week.  Discussions I had today with family members point to Labour landslide.

@fluffy2560I am a UK citizen living in Hungary with an 'Article 50' permit and have had no problem getting a work contract.  The employer did send copies of my permit to their lawyers to check, but their response was quick and positive. The residency we have been given under Article 50 is a mildly re-purposed version of the 'National Permanent Resident'  (all the rules and regulations attached to this status are here:

http://www.bmbah.hu/index.php?option=co … nce_permit ).Though in theory the NPR scheme requires 3 years' residency before being eligible (in the main), it was extended to all UK nationals regardless of how long they had been resident prior to Brexit.  The renewal after 5 years (and again after that) is in theory automatic and should not require any further checks.On the basis that this status entitles you to work (per above link), becoming employed does not require any additional permit, or change your residency status.  No medical was required when I signed my employment contract (on either occasion).Hope that helps.What will be interesting to see is whether the full protection of our Article 50 rights are preserved in the future.  For example, the rules on how long a permit holder can be absent before forfeiting their residency are different.  Article 50 in theory allows a 5 year absence, but the NPR rules are quite different (see above link).  The only pre-Brexit 'right' that I have thus far come across that has fallen by the wayside is being able to buy property without a permit.  Though in theory only a formality,EU citizens do not need a permit to buy residential property, and therefore it should not be a requirement for Article 50 residents.  However, the HU authorities have chosen to ignore this and treat all UK citizens as third country nationals in this regard, meaning a permit is needed.

    @fluffy2560I am a UK citizen living in Hungary with an 'Article 50' permit and have had no problem getting a work contract.  The employer did send copies of my permit to their lawyers to check, but their response was quick and positive. The residency we have been given under Article 50 is a mildly re-purposed version of the 'National Permanent Resident'  (all the rules and regulations attached to this status are here:
http://www.bmbah.hu/index.php?option=co … nce_permit ).Though in theory the NPR scheme requires 3 years' residency before being eligible (in the main), it was extended to all UK nationals regardless of how long they had been resident prior to Brexit.  The renewal after 5 years (and again after that) is in theory automatic and should not require any further checks.On the basis that this status entitles you to work (per above link), becoming employed does not require any additional permit, or change your residency status.  No medical was required when I signed my employment contract (on either occasion).Hope that helps.What will be interesting to see is whether the full protection of our Article 50 rights are preserved in the future.  For example, the rules on how long a permit holder can be absent before forfeiting their residency are different.  Article 50 in theory allows a 5 year absence, but the NPR rules are quite different (see above link).  The only pre-Brexit 'right' that I have thus far come across that has fallen by the wayside is being able to buy property without a permit.  Though in theory only a formality,EU citizens do not need a permit to buy residential property, and therefore it should not be a requirement for Article 50 residents.  However, the HU authorities have chosen to ignore this and treat all UK citizens as third country nationals in this regard, meaning a permit is needed.
   

    -@IanKP

This is really good information.  I appreciate you taking the time.  I think the Article 50 cards are a terrible fudge. They could have just given us an EU blue card so we could retain our rights across the EU, not just locally.

BUD airport update:

I wrote previously about a sign saying UK nationals could use the e-gates outbound.   

They didn't work for me but they did have a sign up.

Just to say that Inbound there is no such sign and queueing up for McJob passport checkers/stampers is still required.

        @fluffy2560I am a UK citizen living in Hungary with an 'Article 50' permit and have had no problem getting a work contract.  The employer did send copies of my permit to their lawyers to check, but their response was quick and positive. The residency we have been given under Article 50 is a mildly re-purposed version of the 'National Permanent Resident'  (all the rules and regulations attached to this status are here: http://www.bmbah.hu/index.php?option=co … nce_permit ).Though in theory the NPR scheme requires 3 years' residency before being eligible (in the main), it was extended to all UK nationals regardless of how long they had been resident prior to Brexit.  The renewal after 5 years (and again after that) is in theory automatic and should not require any further checks.On the basis that this status entitles you to work (per above link), becoming employed does not require any additional permit, or change your residency status.  No medical was required when I signed my employment contract (on either occasion).Hope that helps.What will be interesting to see is whether the full protection of our Article 50 rights are preserved in the future.  For example, the rules on how long a permit holder can be absent before forfeiting their residency are different.  Article 50 in theory allows a 5 year absence, but the NPR rules are quite different (see above link).  The only pre-Brexit 'right' that I have thus far come across that has fallen by the wayside is being able to buy property without a permit.  Though in theory only a formality,EU citizens do not need a permit to buy residential property, and therefore it should not be a requirement for Article 50 residents.  However, the HU authorities have chosen to ignore this and treat all UK citizens as third country nationals in this regard, meaning a permit is needed.        -@IanKP

This is really good information.  I appreciate you taking the time.  I think the Article 50 cards are a terrible fudge. They could have just given us an EU blue card so we could retain our rights across the EU, not just locally.
   

    -@fluffy2560

The EU Blue Card is designed particularly to attract highly qualified third-country nationals to jobs in occupations where there is a shortage of qualified personnel or where a shortage is likely to arise in future. The EU Blue Card is the main residence permit for university graduates from abroad. Its only valid in each country.

The EU Blue Card is designed particularly to attract highly qualified third-country nationals to jobs in occupations where there is a shortage of qualified personnel or where a shortage is likely to arise in future. The EU Blue Card is the main residence permit for university graduates from abroad. Its only valid in each country.        -@SimCityAT

Oh, I got that wrong then.   I thought it was the long term permanent residence card (>5 years). 

Which is the card that allows EU wide working?

BTW, I see Germany has loosened 3rd country national work permits for those under 35.

Which is the card that allows EU wide working?

   

    -@fluffy2560

I don't think there is one?

If your legal rights under the Withdrawal Agreement are not being respected, you can complain directly to the EU Commission -

https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/report-a-breach/complaints_en

    Which is the card that allows EU wide working?        -@fluffy2560

I don't think there is one?
   

    -@SimCityAT

After reading your comment, I looked into it.  Doesn't look coherent across  the EU.  Some countries have not even implemented the directives for Blue Cards.   Not that I care that much.    I suppose if I get more time off or retire I can spend more time on my Hungarian language skills sufficient to pass the language test.

I am still holding out hope for a change of direction by UK's Starmer.  I don't expect him to even discuss freedom of movement until they've been elected.    I just want these border hassles to go away.

I see the Poles have gone less divisive since their weekend election.  Slovakia has swung the wrong way unfortunately.   

I was listening to people being interviewed about the Polish change of government and one of them said "I can be proud of being Polish again".  I was quite heartened by that comment.   And the high turnout of younger people was good news as well.  Maybe we'll get lucky here too.

Airport update:

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BUD arrivals passports now also has a sign up saying UK citizens can use the e-gates. 

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I didn't try it again  as it barfs on my passport and has no mechanism for me to show my RP as well.     

@SimCityAT - I went down this route for the property purchase issue, and it was a complete farce.  The complaint was referred to the competent authority in Hungary, which JUST happens to be a department within the Ministry of Justice - ergo, they are simply marking their own essay.  I got a response saying that they disagreed that the right to purchase property (previously enjoyed as an EU citizen) came under the auspices of Article 50, and therefore there was no case to answer, I needed to apply for a permit, case closed.

The British embassy is aware of this problem, but has been feeble in attempting to address it.  I gather Hungary isn't the only country to introduce barriers to property purchase for UK nationals post Brexit, but at least there has been some headway in reversing this elsewhere for Article 50 nationals - i.e. Austria were most states have rolled back the need for a permit.

@fluffy2560 - UK passport holders were directed to the E Gates the other night when there was chaos in the immigration hall, but they didn't work for the person I was picking up (non resident).

    @fluffy2560 - UK passport holders were directed to the E Gates the other night when there was chaos in the immigration hall, but they didn't work for the person I was picking up (non resident).        -@IanKP

OK, this is new information.   I go through the airport a lot.  I mean a couple of times a month, sometimes even more. 

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I don't think the e-gates work for UK citizens despite the signs.   I don't even bother as I will waste my time queuing there as I always have to show my RP anyway.  If anyone has success with or without an RP, it would be good to hear.

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No idea why it doesn't work.  It's a Schengen border so in theory it should be checking/registering/whatever back at Brussels SIS (Schengen Information System).  Maybe it's that system that is not working.  Up to HU to fix it from this end.

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It will be worse when the electronic authorisation system ETIAS  comes in.  It's still not clear if those with Article 50 RPs will need them. 

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I suppose there's a chance when the UK government changes end of 2024/beginning 2025, there will be some modifications to smooth it out.

It will be worse when the electronic authorisation system ETIAS  comes in.  It's still not clear if those with Article 50 RPs will need them. 



    -@fluffy2560

We are exempt!!

Borders are now starting to scan Article 50 Cards, before you just used to flash the card with your passport and were let through.

    It will be worse when the electronic authorisation system ETIAS  comes in.  It's still not clear if those with Article 50 RPs will need them.      -@fluffy2560We are exempt!! Borders are now starting to scan Article 50 Cards, before you just used to flash the card with your passport and were let through.        -@SimCityAT

Is there an actual link to that as an official statement?

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In Hungary, they always scan the Article 50 card when you get to the McJob Passport robot. 

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So passport in first, then the card, then 50-50 chance on the stamping.

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Never waved through although at Vienna Airport, I was just sent through without much of a look. 

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Sounds like a different implementation. 

        It will be worse when the electronic authorisation system ETIAS  comes in.  It's still not clear if those with Article 50 RPs will need them.      -@fluffy2560We are exempt!! Borders are now starting to scan Article 50 Cards, before you just used to flash the card with your passport and were let through.        -@SimCityATIs there an actual link to that as an official statement?-In Hungary, they always scan the Article 50 card when you get to the McJob Passport robot.  -So passport in first, then the card, then 50-50 chance on the stamping.-Never waved through although at Vienna Airport, I was just sent through without much of a look.  -Sounds like a different implementation.          -@fluffy2560

Its in the link you gave.......

A national of the United Kingdom who is a beneficiary of the Withdrawal Agreement

UK nationals and their family members who are beneficiaries of the Withdrawal Agreement are exempt from ETIAS: they may reside on the territory of their EU host country and travel to other European countries requiring ETIAS as long as they hold documents proving their status.

https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/who-should-apply_en#who-does-not-need-an-etias-travel-authorisation

Its in the link you gave.......A national of the United Kingdom who is a beneficiary of the Withdrawal AgreementUK nationals and their family members who are beneficiaries of the Withdrawal Agreement are exempt from ETIAS: they may reside on the territory of their EU host country and travel to other European countries requiring ETIAS as long as they hold documents proving their status.https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/who-should-apply_en#who-does-not-need-an-etias-travel-authorisation-@SimCityAT

I didn't read that bit in detail.  Got a link to the scanning of RPs? 

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Let's hope the passport lizards overseers know about this.  Like me these days, they display confusion often.

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BTW, there are signs up in UK airports that the same kind of system is coming for foreigners wishing to travel to the UK.

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What a waste of time.

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Oh but also BTW, there Slovenians, Italians, Austrians and Slovakians maybe have put in place road border checks for 10 days on anti-terrorist grounds.  Luckily we're not going anywhere near them.

    Its in the link you gave.......A national of the United Kingdom who is a beneficiary of the Withdrawal AgreementUK nationals and their family members who are beneficiaries of the Withdrawal Agreement are exempt from ETIAS: they may reside on the territory of their EU host country and travel to other European countries requiring ETIAS as long as they hold documents proving their status.https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/who-should-apply_en#who-does-not-need-an-etias-travel-authorisation-@SimCityAT

I didn't read that bit in detail.  Got a link to the scanning of RPs? 
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Let's hope the passport lizards overseers know about this.  Like me these days, they display confusion often.
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BTW, there are signs up in UK airports that the same kind of system is coming for foreigners wishing to travel to the UK.
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What a waste of time.
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Oh but also BTW, there Slovenians, Italians, Austrians and Slovakians maybe have put in place road border checks for 10 days on anti-terrorist grounds.  Luckily we're not going anywhere near them.
   

    -@fluffy2560

Everyone who has flone recently has had their card scanned.

Everyone who has flown recently has had their card scanned.        -@SimCityAT

I meant scanning at the e-gates. 

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Obviously the jobsworths do it over the counter.  That's annoying but expected.

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But can we do it ourselves at the e-gates now there are signs up?

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I think not.

   
Everyone who has flown recently has had their card scanned.        -@SimCityAT
I meant scanning at the e-gates. 
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Obviously the jobsworths do it over the counter.  That's annoying but expected.
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But can we do it ourselves at the e-gates now there are signs up?
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I think not.
   

    -@fluffy2560

No date has yet been set, it's changed 3 times so far.

        Everyone who has flown recently has had their card scanned.        -@SimCityATI meant scanning at the e-gates.  -Obviously the jobsworths do it over the counter.  That's annoying but expected.-But can we do it ourselves at the e-gates now there are signs up?-I think not.        -@fluffy2560No date has yet been set, it's changed 3 times so far.         -@SimCityAT

I don't think the e-gates can do it.  I don't see any physical mechanism to verify just on the basis of the technology there. Looks to me like they'll gave to replace the e-gates.   If you have an RP, it would have to look up your passport and then ask you to put the RP in for scanning if absolutely necessary.  It's only reading the chip or the back of the card anyway.  But it's like double processing time as  double look up back to Brussels. Be intolerable with so many planes coming in. Don't get me started at the potential situation in Dover.

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But meanwhile at BUD airport, I notice they are set up for ETIAS (via the manual drone passport checkers desks) with the cameras and fingerprint readers.  But they don't use them for any  passport holders.  Never seen anyone doing that.

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Only place I've seen some kind of terminal which looks workable is Warsaw but still currently involves wetware equipped passport checkers.

There's a new article on ETIAS at Euronews:

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EU confirms timeline for new border controls: Everything you need to know about EES and ETIAS

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There's not much info on EES which DOES require fingerprints or other biometrics for non-EU nationals. 

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The EU says it will "save time".  Cannot see it myself.

    There's a new article on ETIAS at Euronews:
-
EU confirms timeline for new border controls: Everything you need to know about EES and ETIAS
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There's not much info on EES which DOES require fingerprints or other biometrics for non-EU nationals. 
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The EU says it will "save time".  Cannot see it myself.
   

    -@fluffy2560

They have our finger prints anyway.

        There's a new article on ETIAS at Euronews:-EU confirms timeline for new border controls: Everything you need to know about EES and ETIAS -There's not much info on EES which DOES require fingerprints or other biometrics for non-EU nationals.  -The EU says it will "save time".  Cannot see it myself.        -@fluffy2560

They have our finger prints anyway.
   

    -@SimCityAT

Yes they do BUT they will want to verify them,  despite the various cards.  At the moment, they don't but I am sure they will.  I can see the fingerprint scanners installed at the immigration desks.

As far as I know, we're not going to be exempt from EES, only ETIAS. 

Laughable to say it will  save time. It won't save anyone time at all. It's going to create horrendous queues.  And if it breaks down (e-gates hardly work in many countries)...well, better take sandwiches and some drinks. 

I've got a plethora of ID mostly HU cards now: Residents Permit, Foreigners ID card, Address Card (no biometrics), Driving Licence.

And of course, a UK biometric Passport.

Probably the RP and Foreigners ID card share biometrics for facial recognition and fingerprints. 

I came through Frankfurt earlier today and there were 3 border busybodies looking at one very small Asian woman's documents.  They blocked up the entire queue for non-EU causing a large tailback.  In the meantime, the EU queue just cruised through. 

The EU guards didn't have anything to do so waved over the non-EU ones.  Only like two seconds before that, they'd waved off a non-EU person to the back of the non-EU queue.  Stupid nitwit could have just looked at the passport instead of forcing that person to queue up.  They must have special non-service awards.

Anyway, in Frankfurt, no signs of any UK special consideration.  Doesn't work in Budapest anyway if you have an RP as they scan that too and the e-gates don't do that.

I just read the UK is waiving visas for French ID card only school kids on organised trips.  How generous is that?!   

Apart from that, Lufthansa lost my bag.  Again!

Came through Budapest today (yes, Christmas Eve).

e-gates have British flags and EU flags on them BUT you cannot use it if you have an RP.

So punished again for Boris's and Brexit faction's ineptitude.

Turkish passengers in the non-EU queue were being fingerprinted.  Not seen that before.  They had their passports AND their ID cards out too.  They slowed it all down for the rest of us.

Try and work this one out.........

Brexit rules have improved our lives – we’re happier and better off

    Try and work this one out.........Brexit rules have improved our lives – we’re happier and better off-@SimCityAT

How dumb is that? 

They could have done that regardless of Brexit (obviously).

There are news articles saying the French parliament allows British owners of French property to stay 6 months now BUT I am wondering how this is going to work. 

Does it mean they cannot travel to other countries in Schengen?

Or does it mean that the rules will be relaxed for all British people everywhere as Schengen is Europe wide?

Maybe this is signalling the beginning of the end  for the 90 day rule and we'll inch back to free movement?

And when is Boris and the associated politicians going to be starting their jail sentences for malfeasance?

        Try and work this one out.........Brexit rules have improved our lives – we’re happier and better off-@SimCityAT

How dumb is that? 

They could have done that regardless of Brexit (obviously).

There are news articles saying the French parliament allows British owners of French property to stay 6 months now BUT I am wondering how this is going to work. 

Does it mean they cannot travel to other countries in Schengen?

Or does it mean that the rules will be relaxed for all British people as Schengen is Europe wide?

Maybe this is signalling the beginning of the end  for the 90 day rule and we'll inch back to free movement?
   

    -@fluffy2560

It really is quit messed up, because technically we are not allowed out of our EU country where we are resident for more than 90 days in the Schengen zone. Now they can monitor if you are flying because they check the passport.

But I could take a road trip and theoretically travel the Schengen zone for a whole year without any issues.

As for France, they just need to make it law. Spain is also thinking about it.

But I really have no idea how that would work......

            Try and work this one out.........Brexit rules have improved our lives – we’re happier and better off-@SimCityATHow dumb is that?  They could have done that regardless of Brexit (obviously).There are news articles saying the French parliament allows British owners of French property to stay 6 months now BUT I am wondering how this is going to work.  Does it mean they cannot travel to other countries in Schengen? Or does it mean that the rules will be relaxed for all British people as Schengen is Europe wide?Maybe this is signalling the beginning of the end  for the 90 day rule and we'll inch back to free movement?        -@fluffy2560

It really is quit messed up, because technically we are not allowed out of our EU country where we are resident for more than 90 days in the Schengen zone. Now they can monitor if you are flying because they check the passport.

But I could take a road trip and theoretically travel the Schengen zone for a whole year without any issues.

As for France, they just need to make it law. Spain is also thinking about it.

But I really have no idea how that would work......
   

    -@SimCityAT

Yes, I think so BUT we can leave Hungary for more than 90 days so long as we come back within about 6 months (from memory).  We're supposed to tell Immigration if we're gone for longer than that but I doubt anyone does it.   

I come and go all the time so who knows what's that's doing for me.  They know when I come and go. I'm probably accumulating "points" against me.

The French thing was passed by the Parliament there but implementation details look very sketchy indeed.  They'd have to make that work for all EU countries as I said.  Maybe Macron saves our bacron (see what I did there, i meant bacon).

I am sure we'll see many changes after the next UK election. I'm expecting far closer relations with the EU despite what is being said now by Starmer.  It's going to be a landslide for them.  Practically, it's going to be impossible down at Dover with the ETAIS and fingerprinting.  EU is to blame obviously as much as the Boris Buffoon squad.   

                Try and work this one out.........Brexit rules have improved our lives – we’re happier and better off-@SimCityATHow dumb is that?  They could have done that regardless of Brexit (obviously).There are news articles saying the French parliament allows British owners of French property to stay 6 months now BUT I am wondering how this is going to work.  Does it mean they cannot travel to other countries in Schengen? Or does it mean that the rules will be relaxed for all British people as Schengen is Europe wide?Maybe this is signalling the beginning of the end  for the 90 day rule and we'll inch back to free movement?        -@fluffy2560It really is quit messed up, because technically we are not allowed out of our EU country where we are resident for more than 90 days in the Schengen zone. Now they can monitor if you are flying because they check the passport.But I could take a road trip and theoretically travel the Schengen zone for a whole year without any issues. As for France, they just need to make it law. Spain is also thinking about it.But I really have no idea how that would work......        -@SimCityAT


Yes, I think so BUT we can leave Hungary for more than 90 days so long as we come back within about 6 months (from memory).  We're supposed to tell Immigration if we're gone for longer than that but I doubt anyone does it.   

I come and go all the time so who knows what's that's doing for me.  They know when I come and go. I'm probably accumulating "points" against me.

The French thing was passed by the Parliament there but implementation details look very sketchy indeed.  They'd have to make that work for all EU countries as I said.  Maybe Macron saves our bacron (see what I did there, i meant bacon).

I am sure we'll see many changes after the next UK election. I'm expecting far closer relations with the EU despite what is being said now by Starmer.  It's going to be a landslide for them.  Practically, it's going to be impossible down at Dover with the ETAIS and fingerprinting.  EU is to blame obviously as much as the Boris Buffoon squad.   
   

    -@fluffy2560

You are finally able to vote in the next UK GE.

You are finally able to vote in the next UK GE.
   
    -@SimCityAT

Yes, I know about that.

Shame we weren't able to vote before Brexit. 

The 1M+ British in the EU wouldn't have voted like turkeys voting for Xmas.

We know what the outcome would have been.   It's such a stitch up.

I'm concerned for the misinformation campaigns that will be going on prior to the UK and US election.

One possible outcome here in HU might be similar to what is going on in Serbia.  People know the government there has pulled a fast one.  It just shows how tenuous their grip on power could be when frustration overflows.

I thought with Poland's change, the wind would be blowing in the other direction but Slovakia's election has proved the far right are still there.

I'd think if a UK national  wanted perm. residence in Hungary they could get it easily enough.

If you are married to a HU citizen it should be super easy.

I am from a so called,"3rd" country, the US but married to a HU citizen.

I had a bit of a time due to slow mail and needing more offical papers then one would think was normal but in the end i got a 5 year temp permit and now have a 10 year perm.permit.

Can come and go from HU and back without the 90 day thing attached.

As far as I remember reading with my perm resident card, I can be out of HU for up to one full year without telling immigation.

With a temp card it was only 90 days.

They seem a bit liberal or at least they used to be with not  making a big deal out of being gone longer then 90 dyas when re entering HU.

I do not think being from the US has an extra perks to it.

This morning I read on yahoo.news that Hungary came in at number 25 out of 25 countries that welcome Americans.

IDK about that either, haven't experienced any big welcomes here personally.

In fact I thought it was a liablity at times.

Very strange that they are taking fingerprints from Turkish passport holders.

My husband said awhile back Erdogan was leaving a hotel in Budapest and some guy started cursing him out from across the st.

A bunch of security guards jumped the guy .

Perhaps as he is a big buddy of OV they are trying to screen any potention ,"trouble makers" from Turkey who oppose him?

Just a wild guess. My husband said he visits HU allot.

I'd think if a UK national  wanted perm. residence in Hungary they could get it easily enough.

If you are married to a HU citizen it should be super easy.

I am from a so called,"3rd" country, the US but married to a HU citizen.

I had a bit of a time due to slow mail and needing more offical papers then one would think was normal but in the end i got a 5 year temp permit and now have a 10 year perm.permit.

Can come and go from HU and back without the 90 day thing attached.

As far as I remember reading with my perm resident card, I can be out of HU for up to one full year without telling immigation.

With a temp card it was only 90 days.

They seem a bit liberal or at least they used to be with not  making a big deal out of being gone longer then 90 dyas when re entering HU.

I do not think being from the US has an extra perks to it.

This morning I read on yahoo.news that Hungary came in at number 25 out of 25 countries that welcome Americans.

IDK about that either, haven't experienced any big welcomes here personally.

In fact I thought it was a liablity at times.

Very strange that they are taking fingerprints from Turkish passport holders.

My husband said awhile back Erdogan was leaving a hotel in Budapest and some guy started cursing him out from across the st.

A bunch of security guards jumped the guy .

Perhaps as he is a big buddy of OV they are trying to screen any potention ,"trouble makers" from Turkey who oppose him?

Just a wild guess. My husband said he visits HU allot.