Brexit and its implications for British, HU and any other citizens

Fred wrote:

....

Corbyn is a terrific marxist with a personal cash pile of three million quid but the bare faced cheek to claim to champion the poor.

I don't trust Blow Jo b, but I trust Corbyn even less.

Champagne socialist our JC.  But with BoJo vs JC who is there to vote for?  It's a split vote in the opposition. 

I could never vote for JC  (his policies are those of losers) and the others are all second runners so the only one left is BoJo or just abstain and let them have it. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Cynic wrote:

The Twits are tweeting this morning that (paraphrasing so please bear with me) because the Article 50 legislation is based on EU law, it trumps the requirement of yesterdays domestic law that required Bojo to write a letter.

Makes I larf it does, makes I larf.

The irony

The above post caused to to take a peek at twitter and the morons on there. Many rant on about democracy, but  then rant even more about how they want to stop Brexit, totally ignoring a democratic vote that expressed the will of the majority.
One fool makes the claim there was a people's vote to enter the EU, an obvious lie, or maybe he's just rubbish at history.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Cynic wrote:

The Twits are tweeting this morning that (paraphrasing so please bear with me) because the Article 50 legislation is based on EU law, it trumps the requirement of yesterdays domestic law that required Bojo to write a letter.

Makes I larf it does, makes I larf.

Reminds me of that saying:

Does it hurt? Only when I larf?

It's becoming a farce worthy of Brian Rix.  I'm hoping that BoJo's trousers will inconveniently fall down soon.

Didn't that already happen while he was hanging from that zip-wire?

We may be saved, Brexiteer Geoffrey Boycott has come in to bat; when asked by a female reporter as to whether he should not accept his recently announced Knighthood because of a conviction for domestic violence, he told her "I couldn't give a toss love"; which shut her up.

Cynic wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Cynic wrote:

The Twits are tweeting this morning that (paraphrasing so please bear with me) because the Article 50 legislation is based on EU law, it trumps the requirement of yesterdays domestic law that required Bojo to write a letter.

Makes I larf it does, makes I larf.

Reminds me of that saying:

Does it hurt? Only when I larf?

It's becoming a farce worthy of Brian Rix.  I'm hoping that BoJo's trousers will inconveniently fall down soon.

Didn't that already happen while he was hanging from that zip-wire?

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that.  But he wasn't PM then. 

It's already Yes Minister but now it's got to have BJ channelling Brian Rix.

Cynic wrote:

We may be saved, Brexiteer Geoffrey Boycott has come in to bat; when asked by a female reporter as to whether he should not accept his recently announced Knighthood because of a conviction for domestic violence, he told her "I couldn't give a toss love"; which shut her up.

If there's one thing I miss about Yorkshire, it's the way we talk.
So rude, but so honest.

Fred wrote:

If there's one thing I miss about Yorkshire, it's the way we talk.
So rude, but so honest.

Dude. Seriously. Same for me about my So Cal language and culture. To the point so much as to be bitter at times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMyfZydK-4s&t=0m13s

But.... I also appreciate the elegant way some English can understate while delivering a sharp and poignant rebuke. One does not have to be rude to make a point. And I have to admit, only some English can do this the best. And the way they can do it is brilliant. What a pity the hooligans have taken over the English language from such cultivated English. Because we really need elegance as well.

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

....
Me or Fred? 

It was you..

Interesting.

So you did not think Fred's comments were tollish?

Because I most certainly did.

And just so everyone can compare and contrast what Fred and I said, I repeat it here:

klsallee wrote:

Fred wrote:

I have a solution to the Irish border issue. Reunite Ireland as part of the UK.

Ireland would be far better off, they can finally shake off the EU that made such a mess of their economy for so long, and there's no border to get worried about.

Problem solved.

Or, maybe better, reunite northern Ireland into one Irish country. Jettison the English.

Problem solved. They get rid of English political silliness.  Which is on full display this week.

Quite frankly.... I don't see a difference. I was a troll but Fred was not to you? Really? Maybe not seeing Fred as a troll expose some bias in you? I find it does.

FWIIW:  In the 21st century, one way to deal with trolls is to troll back. Which I fully admit I did. Yes, I was a troll. But a troll specifically to Fred. Because I found Fred more a global troll. So I trolled back as a rebuke.

So you were right. I was trolling. But sad you did not see why I did that. Or the original troll source.

Really sad. Says a lot. Sadly.

Cheers.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

....
Me or Fred? 

It was you..

Interesting.

So you did not think Fred's comments were tollish?

Because I most certainly did.

And just so everyone can compare and contrast what Fred and I said, I repeat it here:

klsallee wrote:

Fred wrote:

I have a solution to the Irish border issue. Reunite Ireland as part of the UK.

Ireland would be far better off, they can finally shake off the EU that made such a mess of their economy for so long, and there's no border to get worried about.

Problem solved.

Or, maybe better, reunite northern Ireland into one Irish country. Jettison the English.

Problem solved. They get rid of English political silliness.  Which is on full display this week.

Quite frankly.... I don't see a difference. I was a troll but Fred was not to you? Really? Maybe not seeing Fred as a troll expose some bias in you? I find it does.

FWIIW:  In the 21st century, one way to deal with trolls is to troll back. Which I fully admit I did. Yes, I was a troll. But a troll specifically to Fred. Because I found Fred more a global troll. So I trolled back as a rebuke.

So you were right. I was trolling. But sad you did not see why I did that. Or the original troll source.

Really sad. Says a lot. Sadly.

Cheers.

That's all too complicated  and I almost wonder who is more paranoid.  Or is it trolling about trolling?  Anything more than about a day old and I've already forgotten - one of the benefits of later age.

But there's a difference between engaging than trolling just for the sake of it.   I  quite often cherry pick on my point selection during engagement (troll or otherwise).  Maybe that's a subconscious test to see who is really the troll when triggered. 

Of course it depends who is who and history of engagement.  Sometimes I might rise to the occasion for the fun of it or it could be just banter (it's a British thing like sarcasm) or more akin to stammtischpolitik rather than anything more than that.

Fred wrote:

Cynic wrote:

We may be saved, Brexiteer Geoffrey Boycott has come in to bat; when asked by a female reporter as to whether he should not accept his recently announced Knighthood because of a conviction for domestic violence, he told her "I couldn't give a toss love"; which shut her up.

If there's one thing I miss about Yorkshire, it's the way we talk.
So rude, but so honest.

He was pretty rude to the interviewer but her questions were pretty snide and leading - looking for an angle and he shut her down.  Some of journalists deserve it!   Sir Geoffrey (Boycott) was never born to be a peacemaker at the UN.

fluffy2560 wrote:

He was pretty rude to the interviewer but her questions were pretty snide and leading - looking for an angle and he shut her down.  Some of journalists deserve it!   Sir Geoffrey (Boycott) was never born to be a peacemaker at the UN.

Boycott is a true Yorkshireman - he calls a spade a spade and doesn't give a toss what anyone thinks. I used to get into a lot of trouble, even being accused of trolling  because I do the same.
Yorkshire is a more than a county, it's a culture, and one where you can strike up a conversation with a stranger on a bus.
I recall assisting a scout jamboree on the air station where a very powerful station was boasting about being on the royal estate at Sandringham on every CQ and at the end of every contact. I answered his call but, when he ended with "... on the royal estate at Sandrigham", I ended my transmission with, " on a council estate in Barnsley".
For those unused to Yorkshire's version of subtle, that translates to "$#@% off, you smug git".

As for Ireland, I'm serious, they'd be far better off dumping the EU and returning to the UK. Pity the religious stuff will stop it - That's a pity for Ireland, not England.

I know it won't happen, but it's obvious it would be a good move to escape a group that smashed their economy in favour of a country that is likely to form a trade bloc around it rather than a group that relies on blocking trade.

See, not a troll at all, just Yorkshire truth. A lot won't like it, but it's just as true.

Fred wrote:

....
I recall assisting a scout jamboree on the air station where a very powerful station was boasting about being on the royal estate at Sandringham on every CQ and at the end of every contact. I answered his call but, when he ended with "... on the royal estate at Sandrigham", I ended my transmission with, " on a council estate in Barnsley".
For those unused to Yorkshire's version of subtle, that translates to "$#@% off, you smug git"..

Haha, yes, that's the way to do it.   Less of the airs and graces.

I've also got all my radio licenses but I never use them these days.  Over time, my mobile radios have broken and eventually the one in the car got removed and put in a box. 

We do however use PMR446 unlicensed EU stuff around the house and in the area sometimes when we're out in groups, on bikes or in different cars in convoy. 

Don't know if Brexit will take anything away from radio usage. I think not as it's organised by the ITU, not the EU other than mutual recognition.

The EU can do little about radio licensing except make life difficult by being as bloody minded as the are stupid. The UK PM is a bit stupid in many ways, but he's unlikely to be so pathetic as to attempt to stop UK radio licences being issued to EU citizens.
Apart from that, most politicians probably have no clue about amateur radio so it wouldn't cross their minds to interfere with the system.
As for the 3 million quid marxist leader of the Labour party, he's clueless in every respect so it's highly unlikely he'd do much outside trying to use his position to enrich himself a little more.

I'll bet you can't tell I don't think much of EU and UK politicians, can you?

It hardly matters what political ideal they hold, the vast majority of them are a set of pathetic, child like twits with no interest in people, just hell bent on chasing after their own their idiocy.

Fred wrote:

I'll bet you can't tell I don't think much of EU and UK politicians, can you?

It hardly matters what political ideal they hold, the vast majority of them are a set of pathetic, child like twits with no interest in people, just hell bent on chasing after their own their idiocy.

Yes, I did get that impression. 

I know from experience that it's very easy to be critical from the sidelines but when you are in the driving seat, you come to realise how difficult it can be.

That's why I don't rate Corbyn.  He's been in charge of nothing significant and his economics and those of his chums are amateurish at best.

He's a very rich marxist so that's to be expected.
Many, maybe most, politicians are in it for the cash, but those claiming socialist views about equality and so on are worthy of even more disdain than the other liars.

Fred wrote:

He's a very rich marxist so that's to be expected.
Many, maybe most, politicians are in it for the cash, but those claiming socialist views about equality and so on are worthy of even more disdain than the other liars.

Like I said, champagne socialist. 

Rich Marxist is sort of an oxymoron. It's almost although politics - i.e. like for Rees-Mogg - is a hobby.

But that's an old story - what do you do if you went to Eton and you're a toffee-nosed plonker, do one of the following:

a) Army
b) Priesthood
c) Politics

It's all just distasteful and yucky.

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

It was you..

Interesting.

So you did not think Fred's comments were tollish?

Because I most certainly did.

And just so everyone can compare and contrast what Fred and I said, I repeat it here:

klsallee wrote:

Or, maybe better, reunite northern Ireland into one Irish country. Jettison the English.

Problem solved. They get rid of English political silliness.  Which is on full display this week.

Quite frankly.... I don't see a difference. I was a troll but Fred was not to you? Really? Maybe not seeing Fred as a troll expose some bias in you? I find it does.

FWIIW:  In the 21st century, one way to deal with trolls is to troll back. Which I fully admit I did. Yes, I was a troll. But a troll specifically to Fred. Because I found Fred more a global troll. So I trolled back as a rebuke.

So you were right. I was trolling. But sad you did not see why I did that. Or the original troll source.

Really sad. Says a lot. Sadly.

Cheers.

That's all too complicated  and I almost wonder who is more paranoid.  Or is it trolling about trolling?  Anything more than about a day old and I've already forgotten - one of the benefits of later age.

But there's a difference between engaging than trolling just for the sake of it.   I  quite often cherry pick on my point selection during engagement (troll or otherwise).  Maybe that's a subconscious test to see who is really the troll when triggered. 

Of course it depends who is who and history of engagement.  Sometimes I might rise to the occasion for the fun of it or it could be just banter (it's a British thing like sarcasm) or more akin to stammtischpolitik rather than anything more than that.

Meh. Whatever.

You and Fred both engaged in Irish bashing. You often claim to be a liberal. Well, IMHO, you lost your liberal card. If not just from the Irish bashing, then this post proves it. Lacking empathy and self reflection is certainly not "liberal". You are only trying to start the excuse train now. Not even an honest bone thrown to even slightly admit I had a point, any point, which IMHO, I certainly did, and which any real liberal thinker would have seen, even amongst the detritus. Even that would have save you. But... you failed.

And seeing your and Fred's above banter, only proves my point. Lib card revoked. IMHO of course. But others reading this may agree with me. You (and Fred -- who does not even live in Hungary which begs its own set of questions) may believe what you wish. Fini. Cheers. 

I never could understand why the Irish had it so hard in the US in the last century.
They were treated so badly for what reason I'll never know.
Maybe this world just hates Gingers?
No, seriously I do not "get it".
Now days however they "own" Boston and the police dept. of NYC so good for them!

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Maybe this world just hates Gingers?

reply moved to:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 17#4680993

Me, a lib?

I'm a capitalist pig and would have married Maggie T had she not been taken.

Fred wrote:

Me, a lib?

I'm a capitalist pig and would have married Maggie T had she not been taken.

I did not call you a lib. I replied to Fluffy. Who has many times tried to press his liberal credentials.

That being said, I give you points for admitting the obvious. I may not agree with you, but at least you are honest about your position. I can respect that. 

Fluffy however... not so much personally impressed at the moment by his commentary. It has been truly... "fluffy".

Fred wrote:

Me, a lib?

I'm a capitalist pig and would have married Maggie T had she not been taken.

Are you allowed to be a capitalist pig in West Java? If Corbyn had his way, maybe you'd be labelled as a fascist running dog!  Not sure about your choice of historically based partners though.  Margie wouldn't be on many people's list.  In more recent history, surely Meghan Sparkle is more interesting? Or most movie actresses of the 1940s and 1950s.  Rather off topic....

But.....on topic....

BTW, looks like BoJo could end up resigning because of bad advice to Queen Liz.  The Supreme Court is going to have to rule for the entire country because of the Scottish Court of Sessions illegal finding.  It's a really interesting point of UK constitutional law that Gina Miller failed in England but the other lot succeeded in Scotland. I didn't realise this was a potential outcome.   It's so fast moving! If BoJo loses, Parliament will reconvene and BoJo will be down at the dole office.  And worst case, Jeremy will try and form a government.  That'll make people choke on their lattes.

I reckon some of these players are top class. Gina Miller will end up in Parliament along with Femi Oluwole.  Gina's as sharp as anything and Femi is a pretty skilled orator.

It's so fast moving, it's hard to predict even hour to hour what's going to happen.

Maggie was beautiful - I have her photo on my office wall.
I should be clear on one point; any MP hoping to revoke 50 using parliament is anti democratic as they're deliberately trying to work against the stated view of the majority. They should be excluded from standing for any public position as they clearly can't be trusted.
Those taking EU based cash to vote against Brexit are worse than lord haw haw and deserve the services  Albert Pierrepoint was so famous for delivering.
As for Boris, much as I don't think much of him, he's in a very difficult position because he has the previous idiotic PM and her wasted 2 years agreeing a deal only a moron would want, and a bunch of traitors trying to stop Brexit. Add May's idiocy in calling an election that lost her so many seats, and Boris has a tough job.
Of course he's trying every trick he can think of, he has to in order to deliver Brexit as voted for in a referendum. The rabble and traitors accuse him of trying to stop democracy but those worms with gobs are the ones really guilty of that.
As for 'no deal', that's far more likely because the remain camp are working against the UK's people in favour of foreign powers, more traitorous behaviour.

The upshot us, expats are very poorly served by remain as their pathetic antics are adding confusion, and the UK's European 'friends' are perfectly happy so use fears about expats' welfare as a bargaining chip to stop Brexit.

If one thing has come out of this, it's shown many European politicians are not friends at all, and they've  proven their European ideals only apply when they get their way.

In my opinion, their colours are well and truly nailed to the mast, and they're anti UK (except the cash).

Fred wrote:

The upshot us, expats are very poorly served by remain as their pathetic antics are adding confusion, and the UK's European 'friends' are perfectly happy so use fears about expats' welfare as a bargaining chip to stop Brexit.

If one thing has come out of this, it's shown many European politicians are not friends at all, and they've  proven their European ideals only apply when they get their way.

In my opinion, their colours are well and truly nailed to the mast, and they're anti UK (except the cash).

I sympathise with many of those points but perhaps for different reasons.

The UK kicks itself in the teeth all the time to the detriment of the citizenry. It's always been the case London has gold plated EU legislation to make it worse than originally intended whereas others only pay half-hearted lip service to it or ignore it completely.  Look  at Greece manipulating its financial figures to get into the EUR and Italy's attempts to break fiscal constraints of the ECB!

What gets me is that many expats (even you included I assume) never got to vote in the referendum*.  So that's 800,000 of us in mainland Europe that potentially didn't have a say and could have held the balance.

* side note for other nationals: anyone British outside of the UK for more than 15 years loses the right to vote in a UK referendum or election.  That includes long term expats.

klsallee wrote:

.....

You and Fred both engaged in Irish bashing. You often claim to be a liberal. Well, IMHO, you lost your liberal card. If not just from the Irish bashing, then this post proves it. Lacking empathy and self reflection is certainly not "liberal". You are only trying to start the excuse train now. Not even an honest bone thrown to even slightly admit I had a point, any point, which IMHO, I certainly did, and which any real liberal thinker would have seen, even amongst the detritus. Even that would have save you. But... you failed.

And seeing your and Fred's above banter, only proves my point. Lib card revoked. IMHO of course. But others reading this may agree with me. You (and Fred -- who does not even live in Hungary which begs its own set of questions) may believe what you wish. Fini. Cheers. 

I feel obliged to answer.

I'm not Irish bashing at all despite being abused on occasion over the years by silly Irish nationalists in a work situation. I've forgiven them as it's just histrionics and mind pollution. 

And there's peace there for the most part cemented by generational change so anyone wittering on about it is behind the times.

We have our differences but the British people (and particularly those in NI) are invested far more than others across the world in Ireland-British relations. And therefore we've far more right to state our opinions and have them heard than someone tenuously connected. 

I agree with Fred sometimes even if his postings are bordering on trolling (come on Fred, Maggie T, really? Do me a favour!).

But everyone will obviously  agree with others on some things but not necessarily for the same reasons.  Not sure if that turns out to be common ground or not.

I think I'm still a liberal so give me my card back.

Maggie was great and I do have a picture of her in my office.
She was a strong PM when Britain needed one, very much as the UK needs Boris now. However, I have no wish to kiss Boris, even if he changed his name to Doris and frequented dodgy clubs.

Fred wrote:

.... I have no wish to kiss Boris, even if he changed his name to Doris and frequented dodgy clubs.

You should be so lucky.....

The LibDems have just come out in favour of cancelling Brexit against the stated will of the majority in the UK, but she might have a little problem.

I gather it's illegal for any MP to accept money from anyone who isn't a UK citizen (With exceptions).
The question is, is one of the men she's getting donations from amongst those exceptions?

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=11971

Name of donor: Thomas Goode & Co Ltd

Address of donor: 35 South Street, London W1K 2XE

Amount of donation, or nature and value if donation in kind: £10,000 received via Liberal Democrat HQ to support the running of my office

Donor status: company, registration 00151415

(Registered 19 February 2018)

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp … 5/officers

VERJEE, Khaled

Correspondence address

2-4, Primrose Hill Road, Flat 8, London, NW3 3AX

Role ACTIVE

Director

Date of birth

October 1979

Appointed on

6 July 2007

Nationality

Canadian

Country of residence

United Kingdom

Occupation

Director

One awaits the answer with interest.

Fred wrote:

The LibDems have just come out in favour of cancelling Brexit against the stated will of the majority in the UK, but she might have a little problem.

I gather it's illegal for any MP to accept money from anyone who isn't a UK citizen (With exceptions).
The question is, is one of the men she's getting donations from amongst those exceptions?

Name of donor: Thomas Goode & Co Ltd

.....
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp … 5/officers

VERJEE, Khaled....Nationality Canadian

Well, dunno about that - the company gave money not the individual, that's not illegal as it's a British company.  The source of funds is going to be generated from profits, not illicit dealings in coke from Colombia.  Looks like nothing to see there.  Certainly not a smoking gun. But they (MPs) shouldn't receive gifts like that anyway.  It's not the USA where the deepest pockets wins regardless of their character or lack of it.

More importantly, Tuesday's the big day when the Supreme Court considers BoJo's activities:

Outcome A:  Boris is illegal, parliament reconvenes Brexit postponed to Jan 31, 2020,  Boris resigns because he lied to Liz, election,  Boris re-elected, he declares he has a mandate to not hold a referendum.

Outcome B:  SC bodges it and says Boris should have majority in parliament to suspend it and therefore not illegal but gets slap on the wrist, refuses to resign and we sail on to Oct 31.

Outcome C:  SC says Boris is illegal, Boris resigns, Lib Dems do pact with Corbyn and he tries to form a coalition.  Article 50 rescinded. And who knows after that....

Outcome D:  We're hit by a large asteroid with fragments wiping out Trump and Johnson followed by an alien virus affecting hateful people and hate speech and I get my liberal card back from the HU countryside.   Damage world wide is minimal, no-one notices the redneck disappearances. There are street parties everywhere and cheerful vuvuzelas can be heard all over the world.  Everyone with a gun has flowers sticking out of it. Woodstock returns with Elvis and Jimi Hendrix as headline acts. Oh,.... nah,.... I'll STFU as I've lost the plot to rambling.  Bit like Brexit.

The court will have to prove he lied, not guess he did. As he's kept his trap shut, that's going to be hard work as the rest is not a million miles from normal.

Now Labour are pretty clearly anti Brexit and the LimpDems (no typo there, folks) have openly said it, they pretty much have to say they intend to ignore the referendum, the only reasonable way forward is an immediate election.

All parties have changed position in drastic ways so an election is a perfectly reasonable request.

As Brexit will be the main bunfighting point, the result of that would essentially be a second referendum.

Fred wrote:

The court will have to prove he lied, not guess he did. As he's kept his trap shut, that's going to be hard work as the rest is not a million miles from normal.

Now Labour are pretty clearly anti Brexit and the LimpDems (no typo there, folks) have openly said it, they pretty much have to say they intend to ignore the referendum, the only reasonable way forward is an immediate election.

All parties have changed position in drastic ways so an election is a perfectly reasonable request.

Actually I don't know they have to prove it at all.  In the Scottish Court, they just had to make it illegal to make it unconstitutional or vice-versa.   In their logic,  that simply made Boris guilty of BS'ing Liz as she acts on the advice of her ministers.  So whatever his agenda lie or not regardless he actually told her the wrong thing.  So up the creek without a paddle UNLESS they rule it  was OK or something less than illegal like improper procedure or other weasel words.  I can see Boris's days are numbered.

I think the wind has definitely blown the other way so I agree that an election seems the only way out. But there's no time to organise it - that means Brexit postponed until Jan 31st 2020 as my odds on favourite methinks.

The great escape probably will be postponed but then the only reasonable action is an election.

As many are openly saying they want to ignore democracy, they need testing by democratic vote. However, they aren't very confident their views match the majority so spouting cowardly excuses to avoid democracy is all they have.

That is just one more reason to despise politicians.

Fred wrote:

The great escape probably will be postponed but then the only reasonable action is an election.

As many are openly saying they want to ignore democracy, they need testing by democratic vote. However, they aren't very confident their views match the majority so spouting cowardly excuses to avoid democracy is all they have.

That is just one more reason to despise politicians.

They'll also lose the gravy train.   I think Euro MPs get a pension after 1 years service so I am sure they're loving that.  I am sure some of them think they will get that pension.  I guess they served and that's that.   All the best intentions until the creeping corruption gets them.

fluffy2560 wrote:

They'll also lose the gravy train.

That's the big thing here - Massive Eurocorruption is a fantastic reason for corrupt MPs to vote against leaving, but a far better reason for the UK to escape.

https://www.richardmilton.net/have-the- … ff-or-not/https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditor … eu-budget/

Regardless of your political bent for or against the EU, the fact it's corrupt and full of thieves stealing taxpayers' cash is an absolute truth.
Sadly, the EU's inability or lack of want to do anything about these massive thefts is just as big a reason to get out.

However, since a lot of politicians are directly benefiting from what are effectively perfect crimes that leave them very well off, a lot are always going to vote to keep things how they are.

Fred wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

They'll also lose the gravy train.

That's the big thing here - Massive Eurocorruption is a fantastic reason for corrupt MPs to vote against leaving, but a far better reason for the UK to escape.

https://www.richardmilton.net/have-the- … ff-or-not/https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditor … eu-budget/

Regardless of your political bent for or against the EU, the fact it's corrupt and full of thieves stealing taxpayers' cash is an absolute truth.
Sadly, the EU's inability or lack of want to do anything about these massive thefts is just as big a reason to get out.

However, since a lot of politicians are directly benefiting from what are effectively perfect crimes that leave them very well off, a lot are always going to vote to keep things how they are.

I'm not going to read the links.  Who knows about Internet based stories unless it comes from legit and trustworthy journalist sources, e.g. BBC, Euronews, Economist etc.  Fake news and all that.

Don't think the politicians start out corrupt but end up screwing and getting screwed by the system.

If you want to look at real political corruption, check out Kenya or somewhere else on the Transparency International's list.   Indonesia is way down the list.

Watch the movie The Distinguished Gentlemen.  It's a bit of a laff but does have a serious side.

I saw that Eddie Murphy film many years ago, and I suspect there's a lot of truth behind the humour.
There is no argument many countries are extremely corrupt, but that is hardly an excuse for others to do the same.

a shocking number of EU politicians wrote:

It's fine for us to steal your money because we steal a lot less than some others. Be thankful we don't steal more and keep voting for us - Well, at least vote for the elected thieves because you can't touch the unelected ones.